Dear Lutz, I agree with you from the users' pow, but how to make the access "unrestricted and public" with proxy servers that have a restrictive access by its own purposes, even for privacy reasons? Omar 2011/11/30 Lutz Donnerhacke <lutz@iks-jena.de>:

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 04:15:21PM -0500, Kathy Kleiman wrote:

...

Tx for the many comments about the "centralized database" recommendation (now #14).  I have worked with Michael and Omar on it, and would like to propose the following, narrower, recommendation:

===>  Rec 14:  To improve access to the WHOIS data of .COM and .NET gTLDs, the only remaining Thin Registries, ICANN should set up a dedicated, multilingual interface website to provide thick Whois data for them.

Here's the original text.

===>  14. To make WHOIS data more accessible for consumers, ICANN should set up a dedicated, multilingual interface website to allow  "unrestricted and public access to accurate and complete WHOIS information".  Such interface should provide thick WHOIS data for all gTLD domain names.

I oppose both texts. I really want to see an dependable tool run by the only instance which has the power to guarantee the AoC requirments when accessing other parties WHOIS services.

So the text should be:  To make WHOIS data more accessible for consumers, ICANN should set  up a dedicated, multilingual interface website to allow  "unrestricted  and public access to accurate and complete WHOIS information" by querying  the appropriate servers, not copying the database. _______________________________________________ Rt4-whois mailing list Rt4-whois@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/rt4-whois

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 04:05:53PM -0700, Smith, Bill wrote:

This wouldn't solve the proxy problem. It provides a single point of *access* to WHOIS data. What is returned, is whatever resides in "the registry of record". If a privacy or proxy services has been used, they will have inserted some of their own data into that registry. The "grand unified WHOIS service" simply returns that.

There is no technical solution for social problems. By our (RT4) understanding of proxy services, the proxy is a full replacement for the registrant, so - in terms of the ICANN policies - the proxy *is* the registrant. Therefore the result from the WHOIS is correct. By our (RT4) understanding of privacy services, the operator does provider a level of indirection between the WHOIS output and the final registrant. If there will be an approbriate policy for privacy services sometimes in the future, the result from the WHOIS is correct. There are recommendations which deals with those problems. The WHOIS results itself are unaffected by those recommendations.

Thank you Lutz! Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T -----Original Message----- From: "Smith, Bill" <bill.smith@paypal-inc.com> Sender: rt4-whois-bounces@icann.org Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 17:47:41 To: Lutz Donnerhacke<lutz@iks-jena.de> Cc: rt4-whois<rt4-whois@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Rt4-whois] Updated Recommendation 14 - Centralized Database We're in agreement. On Nov 30, 2011, at 3:28 PM, Lutz Donnerhacke wrote:

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 04:05:53PM -0700, Smith, Bill wrote:

...

This wouldn't solve the proxy problem. It provides a single point of *access* to WHOIS data. What is returned, is whatever resides in "the registry of record". If a privacy or proxy services has been used, they will have inserted some of their own data into that registry. The "grand unified WHOIS service" simply returns that.

There is no technical solution for social problems.

By our (RT4) understanding of proxy services, the proxy is a full replacement for the registrant, so - in terms of the ICANN policies - the proxy *is* the registrant. Therefore the result from the WHOIS is correct.

By our (RT4) understanding of privacy services, the operator does provider a level of indirection between the WHOIS output and the final registrant. If there will be an approbriate policy for privacy services sometimes in the future, the result from the WHOIS is correct.

There are recommendations which deals with those problems. The WHOIS results itself are unaffected by those recommendations.

_______________________________________________ Rt4-whois mailing list Rt4-whois@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/rt4-whois

I'm very much in favor of this recommendation. It puts ICANN in a position where it can succeed or fail to live up to its commitment to provide timely, public access to accurate WHOIS information. On Nov 30, 2011, at 3:24 PM, "Lutz Donnerhacke" <lutz@iks-jena.de> wrote:

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 08:55:59PM -0200, Omar Kaminski wrote:

...

I agree with you from the users' pow, but how to make the access "unrestricted and public" with proxy servers that have a restrictive access by its own purposes, even for privacy reasons?

That's one of the problems with the AoC. We are not allowed to discuss the AoC, but have to take it a the guide to the expected future.

By interpeting the Consumer Inside Study a centralized "web search of Whois" seems to be the natural solution, because almost all private run services of this kind hide the results between advertisments (and confusing the reader), proclaming arbitary restrictions to the data access, suffer from such restrictions by the WHOIS server operators, or illegaly copy the data into their repository.

OTOH such a "web search" operated by ICANN has to opportunity to deal correctly with the data (in terms of the existing policies and local laws), is multilingual in the correct(TM) way, and can fullfil the AoC requirements. The last point is simple, because ICANN (as the operator) is bound to the AoC, and ICANN (as the operator) has contractual relationships with the WHOIS server operators.

If ICANN feels, that it can't run such a service as required by the AoC, ICANN is the only institution which has the power to *change* those requirements.

And all of those things comes for free (no policy involved, updated, required). _______________________________________________ Rt4-whois mailing list Rt4-whois@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/rt4-whois