Contention Resolution
Hello fellow IRT members, I’ve been thinking about the community consultation on contention resolution, particularly the seemingly popular proposal to hold a ($100/ticket) raffle for applicants (not only for prioritization but for also to eliminate contention). I think there are some positive benefits to the raffle concept, particularly eliminating any need for any of the contention resolution components of the program. But on that same note, I’m wondering if anyone has considered the negative impact on a single-TLD applicant? First, the single applicant only has one shot at getting a TLD, and second, if they are applying for a string that is more generic their chance of walking away a “winner” is quite low. This may not be a problem for the single applicant going for a very uncommon string, but it would be for any single applicant going for a more generic term. Ultimately a raffle poses no up-front disincentive for a cash-rich portfolio applicant from buying hundreds of tickets (and/or applying for hundreds of strings,) because only the raffle winners would be evaluated (and therefore have to pay the full application fee). On the other hand, if the Board were to decide on a Vickry auction where applicants put in their bid along with their application, contention sets are also eliminated up front, and there would be a financial disincentive to “over apply”. Applicants would be committed to paying the winning price if they proceed. If they choose not to proceed the next highest bid would win. In this case one is incentivized to “over bid’ or “over apply”. A Vickry type auction gives applicants some control over the outcome whereas a random drawing has no financial disincentive nor allows the single applicant any control over the outcome. Thoughts? Elaine
On the raffle option, it should require payment of the full application fee, even if it gets a 100% refund if it does not prevail in the raffle. Otherwise, someone could just threaten others of applying to TLDs they know will be applied for. Sorry if this was already a given. Rubens
Em 30 de ago. de 2024, à(s) 17:44, Pruis, Elaine via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org> escreveu:
Hello fellow IRT members,
I’ve been thinking about the community consultation on contention resolution, particularly the seemingly popular proposal to hold a ($100/ticket) raffle for applicants (not only for prioritization but for also to eliminate contention). I think there are some positive benefits to the raffle concept, particularly eliminating any need for any of the contention resolution components of the program.
But on that same note, I’m wondering if anyone has considered the negative impact on a single-TLD applicant? First, the single applicant only has one shot at getting a TLD, and second, if they are applying for a string that is more generic their chance of walking away a “winner” is quite low.
This may not be a problem for the single applicant going for a very uncommon string, but it would be for any single applicant going for a more generic term. Ultimately a raffle poses no up-front disincentive for a cash-rich portfolio applicant from buying hundreds of tickets (and/or applying for hundreds of strings,) because only the raffle winners would be evaluated (and therefore have to pay the full application fee).
On the other hand, if the Board were to decide on a Vickry auction where applicants put in their bid along with their application, contention sets are also eliminated up front, and there would be a financial disincentive to “over apply”. Applicants would be committed to paying the winning price if they proceed. If they choose not to proceed the next highest bid would win. In this case one is incentivized to “over bid’ or “over apply”.
A Vickry type auction gives applicants some control over the outcome whereas a random drawing has no financial disincentive nor allows the single applicant any control over the outcome.
Thoughts?
Elaine
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Good point Rubens. Before we get too far down the road with the raffle, do we have a legal opinion that tells us that it’s even feasible? Jim Prendergast The Galway Strategy Group +1 202-285-3699 From: Rubens Kuhl via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2024 4:51 PM To: subpro-irt@icann.org Subject: [SubPro-IRT] Re: Contention Resolution On the raffle option, it should require payment of the full application fee, even if it gets a 100% refund if it does not prevail in the raffle. Otherwise, someone could just threaten others of applying to TLDs they know will be applied for. Sorry if this was already a given. Rubens Em 30 de ago. de 2024, à(s) 17:44, Pruis, Elaine via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org>> escreveu: Hello fellow IRT members, I’ve been thinking about the community consultation on contention resolution, particularly the seemingly popular proposal to hold a ($100/ticket) raffle for applicants (not only for prioritization but for also to eliminate contention). I think there are some positive benefits to the raffle concept, particularly eliminating any need for any of the contention resolution components of the program. But on that same note, I’m wondering if anyone has considered the negative impact on a single-TLD applicant? First, the single applicant only has one shot at getting a TLD, and second, if they are applying for a string that is more generic their chance of walking away a “winner” is quite low. This may not be a problem for the single applicant going for a very uncommon string, but it would be for any single applicant going for a more generic term. Ultimately a raffle poses no up-front disincentive for a cash-rich portfolio applicant from buying hundreds of tickets (and/or applying for hundreds of strings,) because only the raffle winners would be evaluated (and therefore have to pay the full application fee). On the other hand, if the Board were to decide on a Vickry auction where applicants put in their bid along with their application, contention sets are also eliminated up front, and there would be a financial disincentive to “over apply”. Applicants would be committed to paying the winning price if they proceed. If they choose not to proceed the next highest bid would win. In this case one is incentivized to “over bid’ or “over apply”. A Vickry type auction gives applicants some control over the outcome whereas a random drawing has no financial disincentive nor allows the single applicant any control over the outcome. Thoughts? Elaine _______________________________________________ SubPro-IRT mailing list -- subpro-irt@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org> To unsubscribe send an email to subpro-irt-leave@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt-leave@icann.org> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
I was just going to ask the same question. This sounds like an illegal lottery for which the elements are: 1. Chance 2. Prize 3. Consideration Sounds like all 3 are present here. Best regards, Marc H. Trachtenberg Shareholder Chair, Internet, Domain Name, e-Commerce and Social Media Practice Greenberg Traurig, LLP 77 West Wacker Drive | Suite 3100 | Chicago, IL 60601 T +1 312.456.1020 M +1 773.677.3305 trac@gtlaw.com<mailto:trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com> | www.gtlaw.com<http://www.gtlaw.com/> | View GT Biography <https://www.gtlaw.com/en/professionals/t/trachtenberg-marc-h> [Greenberg Traurig Logo] [cid:image002.png@01DAFAF5.0E02D890] From: Jim Prendergast via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2024 3:53 PM To: Rubens Kuhl <rubensk@nic.br>; subpro-irt@icann.org Subject: [SubPro-IRT] Re: Contention Resolution *EXTERNAL TO GT* Good point Rubens. Before we get too far down the road with the raffle, do we have a legal opinion that tells us that it’s even feasible? Jim Prendergast The Galway Strategy Group +1 202-285-3699 From: Rubens Kuhl via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org>> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2024 4:51 PM To: subpro-irt@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org> Subject: [SubPro-IRT] Re: Contention Resolution On the raffle option, it should require payment of the full application fee, even if it gets a 100% refund if it does not prevail in the raffle. Otherwise, someone could just threaten others of applying to TLDs they know will be applied for. Sorry if this was already a given. Rubens Em 30 de ago. de 2024, à(s) 17:44, Pruis, Elaine via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org>> escreveu: Hello fellow IRT members, I’ve been thinking about the community consultation on contention resolution, particularly the seemingly popular proposal to hold a ($100/ticket) raffle for applicants (not only for prioritization but for also to eliminate contention). I think there are some positive benefits to the raffle concept, particularly eliminating any need for any of the contention resolution components of the program. But on that same note, I’m wondering if anyone has considered the negative impact on a single-TLD applicant? First, the single applicant only has one shot at getting a TLD, and second, if they are applying for a string that is more generic their chance of walking away a “winner” is quite low. This may not be a problem for the single applicant going for a very uncommon string, but it would be for any single applicant going for a more generic term. Ultimately a raffle poses no up-front disincentive for a cash-rich portfolio applicant from buying hundreds of tickets (and/or applying for hundreds of strings,) because only the raffle winners would be evaluated (and therefore have to pay the full application fee). On the other hand, if the Board were to decide on a Vickry auction where applicants put in their bid along with their application, contention sets are also eliminated up front, and there would be a financial disincentive to “over apply”. Applicants would be committed to paying the winning price if they proceed. If they choose not to proceed the next highest bid would win. In this case one is incentivized to “over bid’ or “over apply”. A Vickry type auction gives applicants some control over the outcome whereas a random drawing has no financial disincentive nor allows the single applicant any control over the outcome. Thoughts? Elaine _______________________________________________ SubPro-IRT mailing list -- subpro-irt@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org> To unsubscribe send an email to subpro-irt-leave@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt-leave@icann.org> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.icann.org/privacy/policy__;!!DUT_TFPxUQ!FzBo88GlypY5cn-LVLbUQKK98ngZdhYMdqTCjfB55L-HsTgN0URiQeDeZBz26hZquYFMGtYd4xG2ZMix-e46m9A$>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.icann.org/privacy/tos__;!!DUT_TFPxUQ!FzBo88GlypY5cn-LVLbUQKK98ngZdhYMdqTCjfB55L-HsTgN0URiQeDeZBz26hZquYFMGtYd4xG2ZMixp4hkf48$>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- If you are not an intended recipient of confidential and privileged information in this email, please delete it, notify us immediately at postmaster@gtlaw.com, and do not use or disseminate the information.
Yes, it is "lottery". Always known it was. However, lotteries can be legal IF they register with the state of California to do it, which is what they did the last time. And the reason it had to be "in person" was because all of the activity for the lottery had to take place in California. And before you ask how I know, go back and review Smiley v. ICANN and NeuLevel, 2001 (California Superior Court). [cid:194ce3f9-0ad3-4053-962b-7acce5e6c4c2] ________________________________ From: trachtenbergm--- via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2024 4:55 PM To: jim@GALWAYSG.COM <jim@GALWAYSG.COM>; rubensk@nic.br <rubensk@nic.br>; subpro-irt@icann.org <subpro-irt@icann.org> Subject: [SubPro-IRT] Re: Contention Resolution I was just going to ask the same question. This sounds like an illegal lottery for which the elements are: 1. Chance 2. Prize 3. Consideration Sounds like all 3 are present here. Best regards, Marc H. Trachtenberg Shareholder Chair, Internet, Domain Name, e-Commerce and Social Media Practice Greenberg Traurig, LLP 77 West Wacker Drive | Suite 3100 | Chicago, IL 60601 T +1 312.456.1020 M +1 773.677.3305 trac@gtlaw.com<mailto:trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com> | www.gtlaw.com<http://www.gtlaw.com/> | View GT Biography <https://www.gtlaw.com/en/professionals/t/trachtenberg-marc-h> [Greenberg Traurig Logo] [cid:image002.png@01DAFAF5.0E02D890] From: Jim Prendergast via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2024 3:53 PM To: Rubens Kuhl <rubensk@nic.br>; subpro-irt@icann.org Subject: [SubPro-IRT] Re: Contention Resolution *EXTERNAL TO GT* Good point Rubens. Before we get too far down the road with the raffle, do we have a legal opinion that tells us that it’s even feasible? Jim Prendergast The Galway Strategy Group +1 202-285-3699 From: Rubens Kuhl via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org>> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2024 4:51 PM To: subpro-irt@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org> Subject: [SubPro-IRT] Re: Contention Resolution On the raffle option, it should require payment of the full application fee, even if it gets a 100% refund if it does not prevail in the raffle. Otherwise, someone could just threaten others of applying to TLDs they know will be applied for. Sorry if this was already a given. Rubens Em 30 de ago. de 2024, à(s) 17:44, Pruis, Elaine via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org>> escreveu: Hello fellow IRT members, I’ve been thinking about the community consultation on contention resolution, particularly the seemingly popular proposal to hold a ($100/ticket) raffle for applicants (not only for prioritization but for also to eliminate contention). I think there are some positive benefits to the raffle concept, particularly eliminating any need for any of the contention resolution components of the program. But on that same note, I’m wondering if anyone has considered the negative impact on a single-TLD applicant? First, the single applicant only has one shot at getting a TLD, and second, if they are applying for a string that is more generic their chance of walking away a “winner” is quite low. This may not be a problem for the single applicant going for a very uncommon string, but it would be for any single applicant going for a more generic term. Ultimately a raffle poses no up-front disincentive for a cash-rich portfolio applicant from buying hundreds of tickets (and/or applying for hundreds of strings,) because only the raffle winners would be evaluated (and therefore have to pay the full application fee). On the other hand, if the Board were to decide on a Vickry auction where applicants put in their bid along with their application, contention sets are also eliminated up front, and there would be a financial disincentive to “over apply”. Applicants would be committed to paying the winning price if they proceed. If they choose not to proceed the next highest bid would win. In this case one is incentivized to “over bid’ or “over apply”. A Vickry type auction gives applicants some control over the outcome whereas a random drawing has no financial disincentive nor allows the single applicant any control over the outcome. Thoughts? Elaine _______________________________________________ SubPro-IRT mailing list -- subpro-irt@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org> To unsubscribe send an email to subpro-irt-leave@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt-leave@icann.org> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.icann.org/privacy/policy__;!!DUT_TFPxUQ!FzBo88GlypY5cn-LVLbUQKK98ngZdhYMdqTCjfB55L-HsTgN0URiQeDeZBz26hZquYFMGtYd4xG2ZMix-e46m9A$>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.icann.org/privacy/tos__;!!DUT_TFPxUQ!FzBo88GlypY5cn-LVLbUQKK98ngZdhYMdqTCjfB55L-HsTgN0URiQeDeZBz26hZquYFMGtYd4xG2ZMixp4hkf48$>). 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Looks like that case just went as far as a preliminary injunction ruling and the court ruled that one aspect of the initial name allocation system implemented by NeuLevel, Inc., was in violation of the State of California's lottery law, namely NeuLevel's decision to charge a $2.00 fee for processing certain ".biz" applications and issued an injunction prohibiting it. I can’t find the ruling but are you saying that the judge ruled that if Neulevel had registered the lottery that it would have been permissible? This is in the ICANN advisory on the litigation (see https://www.icann.org/en/announcements/details/advisory-concerning-smiley-li...). With respect to California’s lottery laws, there is an exception permitting charities and certain other private nonprofit organizations may conduct raffles to raise funds for beneficial or charitable purposes in the state. But this exception to the general constitutional prohibition against lotteries requires that at least 90 percent of the gross receipts from these raffles go directly to beneficial or charitable purposes in California. See https://oag.ca.gov/charities/raffles . I don’t this would qualify. Marc H. Trachtenberg Shareholder Chair, Internet, Domain Name, e-Commerce and Social Media Practice Greenberg Traurig, LLP 77 West Wacker Drive | Suite 3100 | Chicago, IL 60601 T +1 312.456.1020 M +1 773.677.3305 trac@gtlaw.com<mailto:trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com> | www.gtlaw.com<http://www.gtlaw.com/> | View GT Biography <https://www.gtlaw.com/en/professionals/t/trachtenberg-marc-h> [Greenberg Traurig Logo] [cid:image002.png@01DAFB01.17A30670] From: Jeff Neuman <jeff@jjnsolutions.com> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2024 4:47 PM To: jim@GALWAYSG.COM; rubensk@nic.br; subpro-irt@icann.org; Trachtenberg, Marc H. (Shld-Chi-IP-Tech) <trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com> Subject: Re: [SubPro-IRT] Re: Contention Resolution Yes, it is "lottery". Always known it was. However, lotteries can be legal IF they register with the state of California to do it, which is what they did the last time. And the reason it had to be "in person" was because all of the activity for the lottery had to take place in California. And before you ask how I know, go back and review Smiley v. ICANN and NeuLevel, 2001 (California Superior Court). [cid:image003.png@01DAFB00.1CADB990] ________________________________ From: trachtenbergm--- via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org>> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2024 4:55 PM To: jim@GALWAYSG.COM<mailto:jim@GALWAYSG.COM> <jim@GALWAYSG.COM<mailto:jim@GALWAYSG.COM>>; rubensk@nic.br<mailto:rubensk@nic.br> <rubensk@nic.br<mailto:rubensk@nic.br>>; subpro-irt@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org> <subpro-irt@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org>> Subject: [SubPro-IRT] Re: Contention Resolution I was just going to ask the same question. This sounds like an illegal lottery for which the elements are: 1. Chance 2. Prize 3. Consideration Sounds like all 3 are present here. Best regards, Marc H. Trachtenberg Shareholder Chair, Internet, Domain Name, e-Commerce and Social Media Practice Greenberg Traurig, LLP 77 West Wacker Drive | Suite 3100 | Chicago, IL 60601 T +1 312.456.1020 M +1 773.677.3305 trac@gtlaw.com<mailto:trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com> | www.gtlaw.com<http://www.gtlaw.com/> | View GT Biography <https://www.gtlaw.com/en/professionals/t/trachtenberg-marc-h> [Greenberg Traurig Logo] [cid:image002.png@01DAFB01.17A30670] From: Jim Prendergast via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org>> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2024 3:53 PM To: Rubens Kuhl <rubensk@nic.br<mailto:rubensk@nic.br>>; subpro-irt@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org> Subject: [SubPro-IRT] Re: Contention Resolution *EXTERNAL TO GT* Good point Rubens. Before we get too far down the road with the raffle, do we have a legal opinion that tells us that it’s even feasible? Jim Prendergast The Galway Strategy Group +1 202-285-3699 From: Rubens Kuhl via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org>> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2024 4:51 PM To: subpro-irt@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org> Subject: [SubPro-IRT] Re: Contention Resolution On the raffle option, it should require payment of the full application fee, even if it gets a 100% refund if it does not prevail in the raffle. Otherwise, someone could just threaten others of applying to TLDs they know will be applied for. Sorry if this was already a given. Rubens Em 30 de ago. de 2024, à(s) 17:44, Pruis, Elaine via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org>> escreveu: Hello fellow IRT members, I’ve been thinking about the community consultation on contention resolution, particularly the seemingly popular proposal to hold a ($100/ticket) raffle for applicants (not only for prioritization but for also to eliminate contention). I think there are some positive benefits to the raffle concept, particularly eliminating any need for any of the contention resolution components of the program. But on that same note, I’m wondering if anyone has considered the negative impact on a single-TLD applicant? First, the single applicant only has one shot at getting a TLD, and second, if they are applying for a string that is more generic their chance of walking away a “winner” is quite low. This may not be a problem for the single applicant going for a very uncommon string, but it would be for any single applicant going for a more generic term. Ultimately a raffle poses no up-front disincentive for a cash-rich portfolio applicant from buying hundreds of tickets (and/or applying for hundreds of strings,) because only the raffle winners would be evaluated (and therefore have to pay the full application fee). On the other hand, if the Board were to decide on a Vickry auction where applicants put in their bid along with their application, contention sets are also eliminated up front, and there would be a financial disincentive to “over apply”. Applicants would be committed to paying the winning price if they proceed. If they choose not to proceed the next highest bid would win. In this case one is incentivized to “over bid’ or “over apply”. A Vickry type auction gives applicants some control over the outcome whereas a random drawing has no financial disincentive nor allows the single applicant any control over the outcome. Thoughts? Elaine _______________________________________________ SubPro-IRT mailing list -- subpro-irt@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org> To unsubscribe send an email to subpro-irt-leave@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt-leave@icann.org> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.icann.org/privacy/policy__;!!DUT_TFPxUQ!FzBo88GlypY5cn-LVLbUQKK98ngZdhYMdqTCjfB55L-HsTgN0URiQeDeZBz26hZquYFMGtYd4xG2ZMix-e46m9A$>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.icann.org/privacy/tos__;!!DUT_TFPxUQ!FzBo88GlypY5cn-LVLbUQKK98ngZdhYMdqTCjfB55L-HsTgN0URiQeDeZBz26hZquYFMGtYd4xG2ZMixp4hkf48$>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. ________________________________ If you are not an intended recipient of confidential and privileged information in this email, please delete it, notify us immediately at postmaster@gtlaw.com<mailto:postmaster@gtlaw.com>, and do not use or disseminate the information.
Em 30 de ago. de 2024, à(s) 19:21, <trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com> <trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com> escreveu:
With respect to California’s lottery laws, there is an exception permitting charities and certain other private nonprofit organizations may conduct raffles to raise funds for beneficial or charitable purposes in the state. But this exception to the general constitutional prohibition against lotteries requires that at least 90 percent of the gross receipts from these raffles go directly to beneficial or charitable purposes in California. Seehttps://oag.ca.gov/charities/raffles . I don’t this would qualify.
Making 90% of USD 100 * 1500 applications = USD 150k go to charitable purposes is very easy to do, if that’s all that’s required. Rubens
I am not a CA lawyer but I think the exception relates to the nature of the entity conducting the raffle, not just the question of where the proceeds go. Anne Anne Aikman-Scalese GNSO Councilor NomCom Non-Voting 2022-2024 anneicanngnso@gmail.com On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 3:28 PM Rubens Kuhl via SubPro-IRT < subpro-irt@icann.org> wrote:
Em 30 de ago. de 2024, à(s) 19:21, <trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com> < trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com> escreveu:
With respect to California’s lottery laws, there is an exception permitting charities and certain other private nonprofit organizations may conduct raffles to raise funds for beneficial or charitable purposes in the state. But this exception to the general constitutional prohibition against lotteries requires that at least 90 percent of the gross receipts from these raffles go directly to beneficial or charitable purposes in California. Seehttps://oag.ca.gov/charities/raffles . I don’t this would qualify.
Making 90% of USD 100 * 1500 applications = USD 150k go to charitable purposes is very easy to do, if that’s all that’s required.
Rubens
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Alll of the esteemed lawyers on list can offer their opinions on this but the only opinion that really matters is the one sought by ICANN legal. Would be good to know if that is in process or has been completed and what it ultimately allows. On Aug 30, 2024, at 8:47 PM, Anne ICANN via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org> wrote: I am not a CA lawyer but I think the exception relates to the nature of the entity conducting the raffle, not just the question of where the proceeds go. Anne Anne Aikman-Scalese GNSO Councilor NomCom Non-Voting 2022-2024 anneicanngnso@gmail.com<mailto:anneicanngnso@gmail.com> On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 3:28 PM Rubens Kuhl via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org>> wrote: Em 30 de ago. de 2024, à(s) 19:21, <trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com<mailto:trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com>> <trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com<mailto:trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com>> escreveu: With respect to California’s lottery laws, there is an exception permitting charities and certain other private nonprofit organizations may conduct raffles to raise funds for beneficial or charitable purposes in the state. But this exception to the general constitutional prohibition against lotteries requires that at least 90 percent of the gross receipts from these raffles go directly to beneficial or charitable purposes in California. Seehttps://oag.ca.gov/charities/raffles . I don’t this would qualify. Making 90% of USD 100 * 1500 applications = USD 150k go to charitable purposes is very easy to do, if that’s all that’s required. Rubens _______________________________________________ SubPro-IRT mailing list -- subpro-irt@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org> To unsubscribe send an email to subpro-irt-leave@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt-leave@icann.org> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ SubPro-IRT mailing list -- subpro-irt@icann.org To unsubscribe send an email to subpro-irt-leave@icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
And the specific questions asked… some that come to mind: - Does the opportunity to sign a gTLD agreement counts against “gross receipts” ? Or only the actual money received ? That would make the actual receipts on the billion dollars ballpark. - If the applicant is pre-paid and then refunded, does this count against “gross receipts” ? - Is the global DNS “beneficial” to society ? Rubens
Em 31 de ago. de 2024, à(s) 07:45, Jim Prendergast <jim@GALWAYSG.COM> escreveu:
Alll of the esteemed lawyers on list can offer their opinions on this but the only opinion that really matters is the one sought by ICANN legal.
Would be good to know if that is in process or has been completed and what it ultimately allows.
On Aug 30, 2024, at 8:47 PM, Anne ICANN via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org> wrote:
I am not a CA lawyer but I think the exception relates to the nature of the entity conducting the raffle, not just the question of where the proceeds go. Anne
Anne Aikman-Scalese GNSO Councilor NomCom Non-Voting 2022-2024 anneicanngnso@gmail.com <mailto:anneicanngnso@gmail.com>
On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 3:28 PM Rubens Kuhl via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org <mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org>> wrote:
Em 30 de ago. de 2024, à(s) 19:21, <trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com <mailto:trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com>> <trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com <mailto:trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com>> escreveu:
With respect to California’s lottery laws, there is an exception permitting charities and certain other private nonprofit organizations may conduct raffles to raise funds for beneficial or charitable purposes in the state. But this exception to the general constitutional prohibition against lotteries requires that at least 90 percent of the gross receipts from these raffles go directly to beneficial or charitable purposes in California. Seehttps://oag.ca.gov/charities/raffles . I don’t this would qualify.
Making 90% of USD 100 * 1500 applications = USD 150k go to charitable purposes is very easy to do, if that’s all that’s required.
Rubens
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These are good questions and there are a million others that could and should be asked. Like will other jurisdictions think that their laws apply because the lottery is open to anyone in the world and affects the whole world because the the new gTLDs will be available everywhere. And this is not a question from a random lawyer but a lawyer that also practices in this area and has worked on numerous promotions operated in the US and also in many other countries. The fact that there are so many questions makes clear that this option is overly complicated and is a bad option. ICANN legal can waste time and money looking into this but why as there will be no clear answers to some of the questions. Let’s just pick another option that doesn’t have these issues. Simplicity should always be the goal in this process. Best Regards, Marc H.Trachtenberg Shareholder Greenberg Traurig, LLP 77 West Wacker Drive Chicago, IL 60601 Office (312) 456-1020 Mobile (773) 677-3305 On Aug 31, 2024, at 6:54 AM, Rubens Kuhl via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org> wrote: *EXTERNAL TO GT* And the specific questions asked… some that come to mind: - Does the opportunity to sign a gTLD agreement counts against “gross receipts” ? Or only the actual money received ? That would make the actual receipts on the billion dollars ballpark. - If the applicant is pre-paid and then refunded, does this count against “gross receipts” ? - Is the global DNS “beneficial” to society ? Rubens Em 31 de ago. de 2024, à(s) 07:45, Jim Prendergast <jim@GALWAYSG.COM> escreveu: Alll of the esteemed lawyers on list can offer their opinions on this but the only opinion that really matters is the one sought by ICANN legal. Would be good to know if that is in process or has been completed and what it ultimately allows. On Aug 30, 2024, at 8:47 PM, Anne ICANN via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org> wrote: I am not a CA lawyer but I think the exception relates to the nature of the entity conducting the raffle, not just the question of where the proceeds go. Anne Anne Aikman-Scalese GNSO Councilor NomCom Non-Voting 2022-2024 anneicanngnso@gmail.com<mailto:anneicanngnso@gmail.com> On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 3:28 PM Rubens Kuhl via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org>> wrote: Em 30 de ago. de 2024, à(s) 19:21, <trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com<mailto:trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com>> <trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com<mailto:trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com>> escreveu: With respect to California’s lottery laws, there is an exception permitting charities and certain other private nonprofit organizations may conduct raffles to raise funds for beneficial or charitable purposes in the state. But this exception to the general constitutional prohibition against lotteries requires that at least 90 percent of the gross receipts from these raffles go directly to beneficial or charitable purposes in California. Seehttps://oag.ca.gov/charities/raffles<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://oag.ca.gov/charities/raffles__;!!DUT_TFPxUQ!Ap6MSJ6FQIMlSPqkKgjaYaqw6XMRZZU_UwHBSchjPOG03tVLonxdUlZFJjMTi95cKcyu_xpkPWRrX9uVPeYl3iM$> . I don’t this would qualify. Making 90% of USD 100 * 1500 applications = USD 150k go to charitable purposes is very easy to do, if that’s all that’s required. 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Org was working towards a simple answer to prioritization (although not applicable to contention set resolution) that this IRT told them not to pursue. So simplicity does not seem popular around here… … that said, the raffle does look simpler than any other auction option I’ve seen, from an overarching view. It’s not simple on the legal side, but it at least warrants some consideration, IMHO. Rubens
Em 31 de ago. de 2024, à(s) 09:27, <trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com> <trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com> escreveu:
These are good questions and there are a million others that could and should be asked. Like will other jurisdictions think that their laws apply because the lottery is open to anyone in the world and affects the whole world because the the new gTLDs will be available everywhere. And this is not a question from a random lawyer but a lawyer that also practices in this area and has worked on numerous promotions operated in the US and also in many other countries. The fact that there are so many questions makes clear that this option is overly complicated and is a bad option.
ICANN legal can waste time and money looking into this but why as there will be no clear answers to some of the questions. Let’s just pick another option that doesn’t have these issues. Simplicity should always be the goal in this process.
Best Regards,
Marc H.Trachtenberg Shareholder Greenberg Traurig, LLP 77 West Wacker Drive Chicago, IL 60601 Office (312) 456-1020 Mobile (773) 677-3305
On Aug 31, 2024, at 6:54 AM, Rubens Kuhl via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org> wrote:
*EXTERNAL TO GT*
And the specific questions asked… some that come to mind: - Does the opportunity to sign a gTLD agreement counts against “gross receipts” ? Or only the actual money received ? That would make the actual receipts on the billion dollars ballpark. - If the applicant is pre-paid and then refunded, does this count against “gross receipts” ? - Is the global DNS “beneficial” to society ?
Rubens
Em 31 de ago. de 2024, à(s) 07:45, Jim Prendergast <jim@GALWAYSG.COM> escreveu:
Alll of the esteemed lawyers on list can offer their opinions on this but the only opinion that really matters is the one sought by ICANN legal.
Would be good to know if that is in process or has been completed and what it ultimately allows.
On Aug 30, 2024, at 8:47 PM, Anne ICANN via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org> wrote:
I am not a CA lawyer but I think the exception relates to the nature of the entity conducting the raffle, not just the question of where the proceeds go. Anne
Anne Aikman-Scalese GNSO Councilor NomCom Non-Voting 2022-2024 anneicanngnso@gmail.com <mailto:anneicanngnso@gmail.com>
On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 3:28 PM Rubens Kuhl via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org <mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org>> wrote:
Em 30 de ago. de 2024, à(s) 19:21, <trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com <mailto:trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com>> <trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com <mailto:trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com>> escreveu:
With respect to California’s lottery laws, there is an exception permitting charities and certain other private nonprofit organizations may conduct raffles to raise funds for beneficial or charitable purposes in the state. But this exception to the general constitutional prohibition against lotteries requires that at least 90 percent of the gross receipts from these raffles go directly to beneficial or charitable purposes in California. Seehttps://oag.ca.gov/charities/raffles <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://oag.ca.gov/charities/raffles__;!!DUT_TFP...> . I don’t this would qualify.
Making 90% of USD 100 * 1500 applications = USD 150k go to charitable purposes is very easy to do, if that’s all that’s required.
Rubens
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The vickry model put forth by Elaine seems simpler although it seems like maybe there should be some way verify if the applicant actually has the ability to pay the amount they are bidding (on that string and so others it is bidding on). I suppose if the applicant with the winning bid can’t pay, or decides not to, then it just goes to the next bidder. But this also creates opportunities for gaming from large applicants applying for many strings who can overbid initially and then decide later which strings they want to go all in on. But maybe there is no way to avoid that or others don’t think this is an issue. Best Regards, Marc H.Trachtenberg Shareholder Greenberg Traurig, LLP 77 West Wacker Drive Chicago, IL 60601 Office (312) 456-1020 Mobile (773) 677-3305 On Aug 31, 2024, at 7:37 AM, Rubens Kuhl via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org> wrote: Org was working towards a simple answer to prioritization (although not applicable to contention set resolution) that this IRT told them not to pursue. So simplicity does not seem popular around here… … that said, the raffle does look simpler than any other auction option I’ve seen, from an overarching view. It’s not simple on the legal side, but it at least warrants some consideration, IMHO. Rubens Em 31 de ago. de 2024, à(s) 09:27, <trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com> <trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com> escreveu: These are good questions and there are a million others that could and should be asked. Like will other jurisdictions think that their laws apply because the lottery is open to anyone in the world and affects the whole world because the the new gTLDs will be available everywhere. And this is not a question from a random lawyer but a lawyer that also practices in this area and has worked on numerous promotions operated in the US and also in many other countries. The fact that there are so many questions makes clear that this option is overly complicated and is a bad option. ICANN legal can waste time and money looking into this but why as there will be no clear answers to some of the questions. Let’s just pick another option that doesn’t have these issues. Simplicity should always be the goal in this process. Best Regards, Marc H.Trachtenberg Shareholder Greenberg Traurig, LLP 77 West Wacker Drive Chicago, IL 60601 Office (312) 456-1020 Mobile (773) 677-3305 On Aug 31, 2024, at 6:54 AM, Rubens Kuhl via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org> wrote: *EXTERNAL TO GT* And the specific questions asked… some that come to mind: - Does the opportunity to sign a gTLD agreement counts against “gross receipts” ? Or only the actual money received ? That would make the actual receipts on the billion dollars ballpark. - If the applicant is pre-paid and then refunded, does this count against “gross receipts” ? - Is the global DNS “beneficial” to society ? Rubens Em 31 de ago. de 2024, à(s) 07:45, Jim Prendergast <jim@GALWAYSG.COM> escreveu: Alll of the esteemed lawyers on list can offer their opinions on this but the only opinion that really matters is the one sought by ICANN legal. Would be good to know if that is in process or has been completed and what it ultimately allows. On Aug 30, 2024, at 8:47 PM, Anne ICANN via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org> wrote: I am not a CA lawyer but I think the exception relates to the nature of the entity conducting the raffle, not just the question of where the proceeds go. Anne Anne Aikman-Scalese GNSO Councilor NomCom Non-Voting 2022-2024 anneicanngnso@gmail.com<mailto:anneicanngnso@gmail.com> On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 3:28 PM Rubens Kuhl via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org>> wrote: Em 30 de ago. de 2024, à(s) 19:21, <trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com<mailto:trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com>> <trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com<mailto:trachtenbergm@gtlaw.com>> escreveu: With respect to California’s lottery laws, there is an exception permitting charities and certain other private nonprofit organizations may conduct raffles to raise funds for beneficial or charitable purposes in the state. But this exception to the general constitutional prohibition against lotteries requires that at least 90 percent of the gross receipts from these raffles go directly to beneficial or charitable purposes in California. Seehttps://oag.ca.gov/charities/raffles<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://oag.ca.gov/charities/raffles__;!!DUT_TFPxUQ!Ap6MSJ6FQIMlSPqkKgjaYaqw6XMRZZU_UwHBSchjPOG03tVLonxdUlZFJjMTi95cKcyu_xpkPWRrX9uVPeYl3iM$> . I don’t this would qualify. Making 90% of USD 100 * 1500 applications = USD 150k go to charitable purposes is very easy to do, if that’s all that’s required. Rubens _______________________________________________ SubPro-IRT mailing list -- subpro-irt@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt@icann.org> To unsubscribe send an email to subpro-irt-leave@icann.org<mailto:subpro-irt-leave@icann.org> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy__;!!DUT_TFPxUQ!Ap6MSJ6FQIMlSPqkKgjaYaqw6XMRZZU_UwHBSchjPOG03tVLonxdUlZFJjMTi95cKcyu_xpkPWRrX9uVwqzjgQA$>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos__;!!DUT_TFPxUQ!Ap6MSJ6FQIMlSPqkKgjaYaqw6XMRZZU_UwHBSchjPOG03tVLonxdUlZFJjMTi95cKcyu_xpkPWRrX9uVeyY9Ktk$>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ SubPro-IRT mailing list -- subpro-irt@icann.org To unsubscribe send an email to subpro-irt-leave@icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy__;!!DUT_TFPxUQ!Ap6MSJ6FQIMlSPqkKgjaYaqw6XMRZZU_UwHBSchjPOG03tVLonxdUlZFJjMTi95cKcyu_xpkPWRrX9uVwqzjgQA$>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos__;!!DUT_TFPxUQ!Ap6MSJ6FQIMlSPqkKgjaYaqw6XMRZZU_UwHBSchjPOG03tVLonxdUlZFJjMTi95cKcyu_xpkPWRrX9uVeyY9Ktk$>). 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Elaine cc as above Good evening; this is a very useful analysis indeed. I had thought (form first consultation session) that the Vickrey approach had quite a bit of cross community support; Best Nigel From: Pruis, Elaine via SubPro-IRT <subpro-irt@icann.org> Sent: 30 August 2024 21:44 To: subpro-irt@icann.org Subject: [SubPro-IRT] Contention Resolution Hello fellow IRT members, I’ve been thinking about the community consultation on contention resolution, particularly the seemingly popular proposal to hold a ($100/ticket) raffle for applicants (not only for prioritization but for also to eliminate contention). I think there are some positive benefits to the raffle concept, particularly eliminating any need for any of the contention resolution components of the program. But on that same note, I’m wondering if anyone has considered the negative impact on a single-TLD applicant? First, the single applicant only has one shot at getting a TLD, and second, if they are applying for a string that is more generic their chance of walking away a “winner” is quite low. This may not be a problem for the single applicant going for a very uncommon string, but it would be for any single applicant going for a more generic term. Ultimately a raffle poses no up-front disincentive for a cash-rich portfolio applicant from buying hundreds of tickets (and/or applying for hundreds of strings,) because only the raffle winners would be evaluated (and therefore have to pay the full application fee). On the other hand, if the Board were to decide on a Vickry auction where applicants put in their bid along with their application, contention sets are also eliminated up front, and there would be a financial disincentive to “over apply”. Applicants would be committed to paying the winning price if they proceed. If they choose not to proceed the next highest bid would win. In this case one is incentivized to “over bid’ or “over apply”. A Vickry type auction gives applicants some control over the outcome whereas a random drawing has no financial disincentive nor allows the single applicant any control over the outcome. Thoughts? Elaine
participants (7)
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Anne ICANN -
Hickson, Nigel (DSIT) -
Jeff Neuman -
Jim Prendergast -
Pruis, Elaine -
Rubens Kuhl -
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