Good Morning, Thanks for the research and interpretation Brian. I don't think the T/T recommendations explicitly states that RDAP is the WHOIS replacement system. The wording does say that RDAP may be an example of such a system, but today we know that it is not, it is solely a communications protocol that replaces and improves the port-43 communications protocol. I was a member of the T/T PDP WG and I can say that my intent was definitely for these recommendations to be addressed by the, at the time upcoming, RDS PDP. Stepping outside the intent of the T/T PDP members from over a year ago, including myself, and looking at what we know and what we have heard loudly from the community, taking divergent paths on this IRT and RDS is not appropriate. The community has been very vocal about the numerous WHOIS projects that are ongoing and that they need to be closely aligned to ensure positive outcomes. We know that RDAP is not the WHOIS replacement system, it does not create/write information, it does not store information and it does not display information. Without significant changes to the current WHOIS system, including several changes to RDAP, this IRT will not be able to fulfill the recommendations of the T/T PDP and we as an IRT should not try to "make it fit". Making the needed changes to the current WHOIS system including RDAP, will not only duplicate work that the RDS PDP team is working on but it is highly probable that this work will need to be redone/replaced once the WHOIS replacement system is implemented, and I think it would be inappropriate for this group to attempt to duplicate what the large RDS PDP WG is already advancing. I think there should be a good discussion about this at the next IRT meeting. Thanks Roger From: Brian Aitchison [mailto:brian.aitchison@icann.org] Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 4:50 PM To: Roger D Carney <rcarney@godaddy.com>; translationtransliterationirt@icann.org Subject: Re: [Translationtransliterationirt] T/T call 2 policy language and discussion Importance: High Hello Roger, Thank you for email. I've had a chance to review the recommendations and discuss the semantics of "WHOIS replacement system" vs "RDAP" with colleagues involved in the T/T PDP process and IRD Working Group, and a few points came up: 1. The T/T recommendations explicitly reference RDAP as a WHOIS replacement system: * Rec 1: "Any parties requiring transformation are free to do so on an ad hoc basis outside WHOIS or any replacement system, such as the Registration Data Access Protocol (RDAP)..." * Rec 6: "The Working Group recommends that any Whois replacement system, for example RDAP, remains flexible..." 2. Rec 7 specifically refers to the technical capabilities soon to be available through the RDAP system: "The Working Group recommends that these recommendations are coordinated with other Whois modifications where necessary and are implemented and/or applied as soon as a Whois replacement system that can receive, store and display non-ASCII characters, becomes operational." RDAP is such a system and will be operational in 2017. 3. I could find no indication in the T/T or IRD final reports that the Working Groups intended for their recommendations to be referred to the Next Gen RDS PDP. My discussions with staff involved with each Working Group indicate that the intent of the Groups' recommendations was to have them implemented as soon as a system that could receive non-ASCII characters was in place. "WHOIS" tends to be a catch-all term that encompasses a variety of different aspects of Registration Data Directory Services as you've noted; it can leave room for various interpretations. However, given the above points, it seems safe to say that waiting for the outcome of the Next Gen RDS PDP was not the intent behind the Working Groups' recommendations, and that RDAP is the "WHOIS replacement system" they had in mind when drafting them. All best, Brian Brian Aitchison, PhD Lead Researcher Operations & Policy Research Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) 12025 Waterfront Drive, Suite 300 Los Angeles, CA 90094-2536 Direct Line: +1 310 301 8688 Mobile: +1 424 353 9041 Email: brian.aitchison@icann.org<mailto:brian.aitchison@icann.org> Skype: brian.aitchison.icann [cid:image001.jpg@01D1F7EE.82CC4FC0] linkedin.com/in/baitchison<http://linkedin.com/in/baitchison> [cid:image002.jpg@01D1F7EE.82CC4FC0]twitter.com/BrianAitch<http://twitter.com/BrianAitch> From: <translationtransliterationirt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:translationtransliterationirt-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Roger D Carney <rcarney@godaddy.com<mailto:rcarney@godaddy.com>> Date: Monday, August 8, 2016 at 2:03 PM To: "translationtransliterationirt@icann.org<mailto:translationtransliterationirt@icann.org>" <translationtransliterationirt@icann.org<mailto:translationtransliterationirt@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [Translationtransliterationirt] T/T call 2 policy language and discussion Good Afternoon, After reviewing the calls and presentation material from the prior meetings I would like to raise a couple questions/concerns. Before getting into specific items in the plan and meeting slide decks it is important to clarify some terminology being used, specifically related to RDAP and a WHOIS replacement system. RDAP is not a replacement for the current WHOIS system, RDAP is a replacement (much improved with several new features) communications protocol intended to replace the current WHOIS port-43 services. The current WHOIS system is much bigger than the WHOIS port-43 services. And a WHOIS replacement system is much bigger than RDAP and is what the ongoing RDS PDP work is addressing. Looking at the Implementation Plan with this clarified understanding of RDAP and a WHOIS replacement system I think the group needs to consider the following items/issues: * As recommendation #7 indicates, all of the T/T recommendations "...should be coordinated with the other WHOIS modifications where necessary and are implemented and/or applied as soon as a WHOIS replacement system that can receive, store and display non-ASCII characters, becomes operational." As the WHOIS replacement system is being addressed by the RDS PDP, all of these T/T recommendations will need for the RDS PDP work to address these recommendations. * The initial assessment on page 4 regarding recommendations 1, 3, 4, 6, 7 seems to be based on a misconception of what RDAP is intended to replace. * I am not sure I follow what the following paragraph discussing recommendations 2 and 5 is saying. The first sentence seems to make sense but I am confused on the second sentence, what "recommendations" does this refer to, if it is the T/T recommendations I don't recall the RDAP profile that was published on 7/26/2016 addressed recommendations 2 and 5? I think the questions/concerns I had about the first meeting slide deck are handled above but I would like to dive in a bit more on some of the things in the second meeting slide deck. In the Q&A: * First Question: I don't think the wording of the answer truly reflects the recommendations of the T/T. Specifically recommendation #7 states the recommendations should be implement when the a WHOIS replacement system becomes operational (again, this work is being done in the RDS PDP and is not RDAP). * Third Question: The answer seems to continue the confusion of RDAP and a WHOIS replacement system. Hopefully what I have stated above clarifies. As for the Policy language discussions, they should be updated to reflect what RDAP is intended for and what makes up a WHOIS replacement system (Policy, Data, Communications, Display). When I read recommendation # 7, I see the output of this group being at most an examination and write-up of what we feel should be modified and this information shared with the RDS PDP group for their information and they will accept/modify based on their defined WHOIS replacement system. Thanks Roger From: translationtransliterationirt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:translationtransliterationirt-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:translationtransliterationirt-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Roger D Carney Sent: Friday, August 05, 2016 11:29 AM To: translationtransliterationirt@icann.org<mailto:translationtransliterationirt@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Translationtransliterationirt] T/T call 2 policy language and discussion Good Morning, Just getting caught up, I was not available for the first two calls. I am planning to listen to the calls this afternoon. In reviewing the timeline I did not see another call scheduled until August 16th, is that correct? If so, I will post my questions and concerns to the mailing list next week but if we are having a call next week I will just bring them up on the call. Thanks Roger From:translationtransliterationirt-bounces@icann.org<mailto:translationtransliterationirt-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:translationtransliterationirt-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Brian Aitchison Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 5:34 PM To: translationtransliterationirt@icann.org<mailto:translationtransliterationirt@icann.org> Subject: [Translationtransliterationirt] T/T call 2 policy language and discussion Hello all, Please find attached a draft of the proposed policy language for the T/T implementation. Please feel free to redline or annotate with comments and suggestions. We'll discuss on our Tuesday call. We'll also discuss the status of and issues surrounding the Internationalized Registration Data Working Group's Final Report[icann.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_news_anno...>, which provides the data model for the T/T implementation. The two reports-T/T and IRD-were developed in tandem and were meant to be complementary. However, the nuance of the language in each has made the task of reconciling the two quite arduous, and your feedback on it will be much appreciated. Details to follow on Tuesday... I've also posted the implementation plan on the wiki. I extended our timeline by a few weeks as I imagine we'll have a few issues to discuss as they relate to the IRD report and language tags. Thanks very much all and have a great weekend! Best, Brian Brian Aitchison, PhD Lead Researcher Operations & Policy Research Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) 12025 Waterfront Drive, Suite 300 Los Angeles, CA 90094-2536 Direct Line: +1 310 301 8688 Mobile: +1 424 353 9041 Email: brian.aitchison@icann.org<mailto:brian.aitchison@icann.org> Skype: brian.aitchison.icann [cid:image001.jpg@01D1F7EE.82CC4FC0] linkedin.com/in/baitchison[linkedin.com]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__linkedin.com_in_baitchis...> [cid:image002.jpg@01D1F7EE.82CC4FC0]twitter.com/BrianAitch[twitter.com]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_BrianAitch&d...>

* Rec 1: "Any parties requiring transformation are free to do so on an ad hoc basis outside WHOIS or any replacement system, such as the Registration Data Access Protocol (RDAP)Š² * Rec 6: "The Working Group recommends that any Whois replacement system, for example RDAP, remains flexibleŠ²

Thanks Roger for the insight and thoughtful feedback. Given that this discussion goes to the core of our efforts on this IRT, it¹s something we¹ll want to address before anything else. I'll be sure to include it as an agenda item in our next IRT meeting. All best, Brian Brian Aitchison, PhD Lead Researcher Operations & Policy Research Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) 12025 Waterfront Drive, Suite 300 Los Angeles, CA 90094-2536 Direct Line: +1 310 301 8688 Mobile: +1 424 353 9041 Email: brian.aitchison@icann.org Skype: brian.aitchison.icann linkedin.com/in/baitchison <http://linkedin.com/in/baitchison> twitter.com/BrianAitch <http://twitter.com/BrianAitch> From: <translationtransliterationirt-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Roger D Carney <rcarney@godaddy.com> Date: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 at 9:36 AM To: "translationtransliterationirt@icann.org" <translationtransliterationirt@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Translationtransliterationirt] T/T call 2 policy language and discussion Good Morning, Thanks for the research and interpretation Brian. I don¹t think the T/T recommendations explicitly states that RDAP is the WHOIS replacement system. The wording does say that RDAP may be an example of such a system, but today we know that it is not, it is solely a communications protocol that replaces and improves the port-43 communications protocol. I was a member of the T/T PDP WG and I can say that my intent was definitely for these recommendations to be addressed by the, at the time upcoming, RDS PDP. Stepping outside the intent of the T/T PDP members from over a year ago, including myself, and looking at what we know and what we have heard loudly from the community, taking divergent paths on this IRT and RDS is not appropriate. The community has been very vocal about the numerous WHOIS projects that are ongoing and that they need to be closely aligned to ensure positive outcomes. We know that RDAP is not the WHOIS replacement system, it does not create/write information, it does not store information and it does not display information. Without significant changes to the current WHOIS system, including several changes to RDAP, this IRT will not be able to fulfill the recommendations of the T/T PDP and we as an IRT should not try to ³make it fit². Making the needed changes to the current WHOIS system including RDAP, will not only duplicate work that the RDS PDP team is working on but it is highly probable that this work will need to be redone/replaced once the WHOIS replacement system is implemented, and I think it would be inappropriate for this group to attempt to duplicate what the large RDS PDP WG is already advancing. I think there should be a good discussion about this at the next IRT meeting. Thanks Roger From: Brian Aitchison [mailto:brian.aitchison@icann.org] Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 4:50 PM To: Roger D Carney <rcarney@godaddy.com>; translationtransliterationirt@icann.org Subject: Re: [Translationtransliterationirt] T/T call 2 policy language and discussion Importance: High Hello Roger, Thank you for email. I¹ve had a chance to review the recommendations and discuss the semantics of ³WHOIS replacement system² vs ³RDAP" with colleagues involved in the T/T PDP process and IRD Working Group, and a few points came up: 1. The T/T recommendations explicitly reference RDAP as a WHOIS replacement system: 2. Rec 7 specifically refers to the technical capabilities soon to be available through the RDAP system: "The Working Group recommends that these recommendations are coordinated with other Whois modifications where necessary and are implemented and/or applied as soon as a Whois replacement system that can receive, store and display non-ASCII characters, becomes operational.² RDAP is such a system and will be operational in 2017. 3. I could find no indication in the T/T or IRD final reports that the Working Groups intended for their recommendations to be referred to the Next Gen RDS PDP. My discussions with staff involved with each Working Group indicate that the intent of the Groups¹ recommendations was to have them implemented as soon as a system that could receive non-ASCII characters was in place. ³WHOIS² tends to be a catch-all term that encompasses a variety of different aspects of Registration Data Directory Services as you've noted; it can leave room for various interpretations. However, given the above points, it seems safe to say that waiting for the outcome of the Next Gen RDS PDP was not the intent behind the Working Groups¹ recommendations, and that RDAP is the "WHOIS replacement system" they had in mind when drafting them. All best, Brian Brian Aitchison, PhD Lead Researcher Operations & Policy Research Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) 12025 Waterfront Drive, Suite 300 Los Angeles, CA 90094-2536 Direct Line: +1 310 301 8688 Mobile: +1 424 353 9041 Email: brian.aitchison@icann.org Skype: brian.aitchison.icann linkedin.com/in/baitchison <http://linkedin.com/in/baitchison> twitter.com/BrianAitch <http://twitter.com/BrianAitch> From: <translationtransliterationirt-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Roger D Carney <rcarney@godaddy.com> Date: Monday, August 8, 2016 at 2:03 PM To: "translationtransliterationirt@icann.org" <translationtransliterationirt@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Translationtransliterationirt] T/T call 2 policy language and discussion Good Afternoon, After reviewing the calls and presentation material from the prior meetings I would like to raise a couple questions/concerns. Before getting into specific items in the plan and meeting slide decks it is important to clarify some terminology being used, specifically related to RDAP and a WHOIS replacement system. RDAP is not a replacement for the current WHOIS system, RDAP is a replacement (much improved with several new features) communications protocol intended to replace the current WHOIS port-43 services. The current WHOIS system is much bigger than the WHOIS port-43 services. And a WHOIS replacement system is much bigger than RDAP and is what the ongoing RDS PDP work is addressing. Looking at the Implementation Plan with this clarified understanding of RDAP and a WHOIS replacement system I think the group needs to consider the following items/issues: · As recommendation #7 indicates, all of the T/T recommendations ³Šshould be coordinated with the other WHOIS modifications where necessary and are implemented and/or applied as soon as a WHOIS replacement system that can receive, store and display non-ASCII characters, becomes operational.² As the WHOIS replacement system is being addressed by the RDS PDP, all of these T/T recommendations will need for the RDS PDP work to address these recommendations. · The initial assessment on page 4 regarding recommendations 1, 3, 4, 6, 7 seems to be based on a misconception of what RDAP is intended to replace. · I am not sure I follow what the following paragraph discussing recommendations 2 and 5 is saying. The first sentence seems to make sense but I am confused on the second sentence, what ³recommendations² does this refer to, if it is the T/T recommendations I don¹t recall the RDAP profile that was published on 7/26/2016 addressed recommendations 2 and 5? I think the questions/concerns I had about the first meeting slide deck are handled above but I would like to dive in a bit more on some of the things in the second meeting slide deck. In the Q&A: · First Question: I don¹t think the wording of the answer truly reflects the recommendations of the T/T. Specifically recommendation #7 states the recommendations should be implement when the a WHOIS replacement system becomes operational (again, this work is being done in the RDS PDP and is not RDAP). · Third Question: The answer seems to continue the confusion of RDAP and a WHOIS replacement system. Hopefully what I have stated above clarifies. As for the Policy language discussions, they should be updated to reflect what RDAP is intended for and what makes up a WHOIS replacement system (Policy, Data, Communications, Display). When I read recommendation # 7, I see the output of this group being at most an examination and write-up of what we feel should be modified and this information shared with the RDS PDP group for their information and they will accept/modify based on their defined WHOIS replacement system. Thanks Roger From:translationtransliterationirt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:translationtransliterationirt-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Roger D Carney Sent: Friday, August 05, 2016 11:29 AM To: translationtransliterationirt@icann.org Subject: Re: [Translationtransliterationirt] T/T call 2 policy language and discussion Good Morning, Just getting caught up, I was not available for the first two calls. I am planning to listen to the calls this afternoon. In reviewing the timeline I did not see another call scheduled until August 16th, is that correct? If so, I will post my questions and concerns to the mailing list next week but if we are having a call next week I will just bring them up on the call. Thanks Roger From:translationtransliterationirt-bounces@icann.org [mailto:translationtransliterationirt-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Brian Aitchison Sent: Friday, July 29, 2016 5:34 PM To: translationtransliterationirt@icann.org Subject: [Translationtransliterationirt] T/T call 2 policy language and discussion Hello all, Please find attached a draft of the proposed policy language for the T/T implementation. Please feel free to redline or annotate with comments and suggestions. We¹ll discuss on our Tuesday call. We¹ll also discuss the status of and issues surrounding the Internationalized Registration Data Working Group¹s Final Report[icann.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_news_ann ouncement-2D3-2D2015-2D09-2D25-2Den&d=CwMFAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS 6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=oOkZhM-vcooKF6_v3AmN7zbUWXCLjOjNm5S2_iA3wOQ&m=FL5TZ9zvcwaNP qrffJSqXt-8MpMRKDji3X6y1sDBeuU&s=QhGwQaZtiui4BN75T3hKa2i2vFsxFSzfRrTb9C7W0D4 &e=> , which provides the data model for the T/T implementation. The two reports‹T/T and IRD‹were developed in tandem and were meant to be complementary. However, the nuance of the language in each has made the task of reconciling the two quite arduous, and your feedback on it will be much appreciated. Details to follow on TuesdayŠ I¹ve also posted the implementation plan on the wiki. I extended our timeline by a few weeks as I imagine we¹ll have a few issues to discuss as they relate to the IRD report and language tags. Thanks very much all and have a great weekend! Best, Brian Brian Aitchison, PhD Lead Researcher Operations & Policy Research Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) 12025 Waterfront Drive, Suite 300 Los Angeles, CA 90094-2536 Direct Line: +1 310 301 8688 Mobile: +1 424 353 9041 Email: brian.aitchison@icann.org Skype: brian.aitchison.icann linkedin.com/in/baitchison[linkedin.com] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__linkedin.com_in_baitchi son&d=CwMFAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=oOkZhM-vcooKF6_ v3AmN7zbUWXCLjOjNm5S2_iA3wOQ&m=FL5TZ9zvcwaNPqrffJSqXt-8MpMRKDji3X6y1sDBeuU&s =CRRONybJqdINmrCBzxLISi4wQsakg2ARG3SoO_Nu_lU&e=> twitter.com/BrianAitch[twitter.com] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_BrianAitch& d=CwMFAg&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=oOkZhM-vcooKF6_v3Am N7zbUWXCLjOjNm5S2_iA3wOQ&m=FL5TZ9zvcwaNPqrffJSqXt-8MpMRKDji3X6y1sDBeuU&s=lqb -cb0C7urP77tu_UsW3kFN-Is8ORtvudBzYiuDCTs&e=>