Ajay, ok I misunderstood when you asked “do you think its also idea worth exploring in EAI and IDN`s to also map them with numerical ID”. I thought this meant you wanted to use digits there. The table doesn’t show that the # of phones to population is 96%, since people that have phones may have more than one number. The page indicates for china the near 100% is actually 60% of the population. Regardless, the number is much higher than I expected. A few years ago, I attended a meeting with the IT minister who was discussing the problems of getting information to the population in the event of a disaster, and she said there was a significant portion of the population without phones and without the computer or language literacy to use a phone. Perhaps things have improved considerably since then. It was several years ago. Anyway, I am unclear on your proposal. Are you looking to map domain names to digits? Like a punycode that generates only digits instead of ascii? I think the comments I made still apply and in addition there is a likelihood of the longer numeric strings exceeding what the standards allow. But maybe you meant something else? Tex From: Ajay DATA [mailto:ajay@data.in] Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 9:50 PM To: textexin@xencraft.com; ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] numbers as authenticaion ID Thank you for detailed reply. As I mentioned that the numbers were used only for login and uses tamil ID to send and receive email automatically. We r not giving 9988@domain as email id. If there are multiple IDs linked with one mobile number than with OTP verification he is given choice to select the ID user wishes to use login into the mailbox. In this case, Let me be also specific in saying that numbers means Mobile number to ensure uniqueness and verifications. Also Tex, 96.40 percent of India's population uses mobile phones. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_mobile_phones... Best Wishes Ajay Data On 20 October 2017 01:35:56 GMT+05:30, Tex Texin <textexin@xencraft.com> wrote: Because names and other personal data (eg postal address) are not unique and can be spelled in many different ways, I often suggest that it is better for applications to use phone numbers for searching for an individual. These days almost everyone (above a certain poverty level) has a cell phone and therefore a unique number. However, in many countries, and I thought India was one, not everyone has a phone. Also, people want to have more than one mail address to have for different purposes or to limit who can reach them or when they can be reached, etc. Using a phone number might make it easier for spammers to guess how they can reach individuals because (most) phone numbers are public. Using all digits might also make it likely that typos or transpositions would send confidential mail to the wrong person, whereas the larger space of alphabetic emails makes it more likely that the erroneous mail id is unused. Phone numbers also get reassigned to other users when someone gives a number up, so that could mean a change in carriers or other event causing you to change numbers would drive changing your email, which is a hassle. Digits are easy to type but hard to remember for people that call you. Especially 10 or so digits. I can tell you email me at tex@google.com and you would remember it, but 1234567890@google.com would need to be written down or otherwise communicated. Nevertheless for people that have trouble with alphabetics (typing or other issues) digits can be effective. It may need to be telephone plus other digits that are less prescribed (birthday, postal code, or users random choice) However, the individual you describe will still have trouble typing in other people’s email addresses and domain names. And he doesn’t have to type his own email as often as that of others. (from fields are usually auto-filled) So digits may not be a solution for his real problem. For the situation you describe, I wonder if a better solution is to create an input method that maps digits or other key presses to type tamil more easily. Or perhaps offer more of a wizard for typing tamil coupled with more predictive typing and data entry. That may also help him with typing the contents of his email since he or she will still have trouble entering tamil content. Hth Tex From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Dr Ajay Data Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 12:13 PM To: ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: [UA-discuss] numbers as authenticaion ID Dear Friend, I would like to present a situation where a person- do not know English at all. do know little bit of writing in Tamil language do know very well to read Tamil language can read write and understands all the 0-9 numbers. While he was using Tamil ID, he complained multiple times as he could not type his email ID very well every time and made mistake most of the time he tried to login. We did innovation there and gave him his mobile number as a login ID and numbers as password. Since than he do not have any complaint. Obviously his email remained same. With this kind of case and result, do you think its also idea worth exploring in EAI and IDN`s to also map them with numerical ID and this can also eliminate need of UTF related checks on the login webpage. Just a food for though to get negative/positive feedback`s, ideas and suggestions. I would be also happy to know if we can think the problems may occur and may see roadblocks. Thank you. Dr. Ajay DATA | Founder & CEO Get email id like <mailto:???@????.????> अजय@डाटा.भारत in your own language, visit <http://www.xgenplus.com/> www.xgenplus.com Do not Remove: [HID]20171020004317215[-HID] <https://data.in/XGenPlusMessageID:1508440397137587a-#RCPT#.jpg> <http://dlr.tbms.in:8077/XET33204:201710.jpg> -- Sent from my Android device with BharatSync Communicator.
Let's discuss this during ICANN60 or I shall create step by step soon to explain better. Thanks. On 20 October 2017 10:48:07 GMT+05:30, Tex Texin <textexin@xencraft.com> wrote:
Ajay, ok I misunderstood when you asked “do you think its also idea worth exploring in EAI and IDN`s to also map them with numerical ID”.
I thought this meant you wanted to use digits there.
The table doesn’t show that the # of phones to population is 96%, since people that have phones may have more than one number. The page indicates for china the near 100% is actually 60% of the population.
Regardless, the number is much higher than I expected. A few years ago, I attended a meeting with the IT minister who was discussing the problems of getting information to the population in the event of a disaster, and she said there was a significant portion of the population without phones and without the computer or language literacy to use a phone.
Perhaps things have improved considerably since then. It was several years ago.
Anyway, I am unclear on your proposal. Are you looking to map domain names to digits? Like a punycode that generates only digits instead of ascii?
I think the comments I made still apply and in addition there is a likelihood of the longer numeric strings exceeding what the standards allow.
But maybe you meant something else?
Tex
From: Ajay DATA [mailto:ajay@data.in] Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 9:50 PM To: textexin@xencraft.com; ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] numbers as authenticaion ID
Thank you for detailed reply.
As I mentioned that the numbers were used only for login and uses tamil ID to send and receive email automatically. We r not giving 9988@domain as email id.
If there are multiple IDs linked with one mobile number than with OTP verification he is given choice to select the ID user wishes to use login into the mailbox.
In this case, Let me be also specific in saying that numbers means Mobile number to ensure uniqueness and verifications.
Also Tex, 96.40 percent of India's population uses mobile phones. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_mobile_phones...
Best Wishes
Ajay Data
On 20 October 2017 01:35:56 GMT+05:30, Tex Texin <textexin@xencraft.com> wrote:
Because names and other personal data (eg postal address) are not unique and can be spelled in many different ways, I often suggest that it is better for applications to use phone numbers for searching for an individual. These days almost everyone (above a certain poverty level) has a cell phone and therefore a unique number.
However, in many countries, and I thought India was one, not everyone has a phone. Also, people want to have more than one mail address to have for different purposes or to limit who can reach them or when they can be reached, etc.
Using a phone number might make it easier for spammers to guess how they can reach individuals because (most) phone numbers are public.
Using all digits might also make it likely that typos or transpositions would send confidential mail to the wrong person, whereas the larger space of alphabetic emails makes it more likely that the erroneous mail id is unused.
Phone numbers also get reassigned to other users when someone gives a number up, so that could mean a change in carriers or other event causing you to change numbers would drive changing your email, which is a hassle.
Digits are easy to type but hard to remember for people that call you. Especially 10 or so digits. I can tell you email me at tex@google.com and you would remember it, but 1234567890@google.com would need to be written down or otherwise communicated.
Nevertheless for people that have trouble with alphabetics (typing or other issues) digits can be effective. It may need to be telephone plus other digits that are less prescribed (birthday, postal code, or users random choice)
However, the individual you describe will still have trouble typing in other people’s email addresses and domain names. And he doesn’t have to type his own email as often as that of others. (from fields are usually auto-filled) So digits may not be a solution for his real problem.
For the situation you describe, I wonder if a better solution is to create an input method that maps digits or other key presses to type tamil more easily. Or perhaps offer more of a wizard for typing tamil coupled with more predictive typing and data entry. That may also help him with typing the contents of his email since he or she will still have trouble entering tamil content.
Hth
Tex
From: ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Dr Ajay Data Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2017 12:13 PM To: ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: [UA-discuss] numbers as authenticaion ID
Dear Friend,
I would like to present a situation where
a person- do not know English at all. do know little bit of writing in Tamil language do know very well to read Tamil language
can read write and understands all the 0-9 numbers.
While he was using Tamil ID, he complained multiple times as he could not type his email ID very well every time and made mistake most of the time he tried to login.
We did innovation there and gave him his mobile number as a login ID and numbers as password. Since than he do not have any complaint. Obviously his email remained same.
With this kind of case and result, do you think its also idea worth exploring in EAI and IDN`s to also map them with numerical ID and this can also eliminate need of UTF related checks on the login webpage.
Just a food for though to get negative/positive feedback`s, ideas and suggestions. I would be also happy to know if we can think the problems may occur and may see roadblocks.
Thank you.
Dr. Ajay DATA | Founder & CEO
Get email id like <mailto:???@????.????> अजय@डाटा.भारत in your own language, visit <http://www.xgenplus.com/> www.xgenplus.com
Do not Remove: [HID]20171020004317215[-HID]
<https://data.in/XGenPlusMessageID:1508440397137587a-#RCPT#.jpg> <http://dlr.tbms.in:8077/XET33204:201710.jpg>
-- Sent from my Android device with BharatSync Communicator.
-- Sent from my Android device with BharatSync Communicator.
Il 20 ottobre 2017 alle 7.18 Tex Texin <textexin@xencraft.com> ha scritto:
Ajay, ok I misunderstood when you asked “do you think its also idea worth exploring in EAI and IDN`s to also map them with numerical ID”.
I thought this meant you wanted to use digits there.
The table doesn’t show that the # of phones to population is 96%, since people that have phones may have more than one number. The page indicates for china the near 100% is actually 60% of the population.
Yes, you should always check whether statistics refer to the number of distinct people or to the number of subscriptions/numbers/devices, which is often what is used to measure "mobile phone penetration". In terms of subscriptions, the penetration of mobile phones in Italy is around 160%, but "only" 94% of Italians have a mobile phone, though the remaining 6% is essentially made of small children. Ciao -- Vittorio Bertola Research & Innovation Engineer Cell: +39 348 7015022 Skype: in-skype-ox@bertola.eu Email: vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com mailto:vittorio.bertola@open-xchange.com Twitter: @openexchange http://twitter.com/openexchange - Facebook: OpenXchange https://www.facebook.com/OpenXchange - Web: www.open-xchange.com http://www.open-xchange.com Open-Xchange AG, Rollnerstr. 14, 90408 Nuremberg, District Court Nuremberg HRB 24738 Managing Board: Rafael Laguna de la Vera, Carsten Dirks, Michael Knapstein Chairman of the Board: Richard Seibt European Office: Open-Xchange GmbH, Olper Huette 5f, D-57462 Olpe, Germany, District Court Siegen, HRB 8718 Managing Directors: Frank Hoberg, Martin Kauss US Office: Open-Xchange. Inc., 530 Lytton Avenue, Palo Alto, CA 94301, USA Confidentiality Warning: This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the intended recipient(s), are confidential, and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, retransmission, conversion to hard copy, copying, circulation or other use of this message and any attachments is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message and any attachments from your system.
participants (3)
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Ajay DATA -
Tex Texin -
Vittorio Bertola