Re: [UA-discuss] [UA-EAI] WhatWG issue regarding <input type="email"> is open (#4562)
Yes, you are right, it is the same problem except that with Unicode it is hugely more complicated. One could, for instance, state �� A well formed EA consists of ascii characters but not any ascii characters �� A well formed EAI consists of unicode characters but not any unicode characters So, for example: I doubt there is any email system that would allow me to register an EA with a space in the mailbox name eg "andre schappo@wherever.com" With an EAI such as "����ɥ졡����å�@�ǩ`����`��.����" it is more complicated because there are several different space characters eg en space, em space, figure space, ideographic space ...etc... Andr�� Schappo ________________________________ From: Arnt Gulbrandsen <arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no> Sent: 09 June 2020 12:49 To: Andre Schappo <A.Schappo@lboro.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [UA-EAI] WhatWG issue regarding <input type="email"> is open (#4562)
Well because unicode contains formatting characters, delete, direction indicators, tags, joiners ...etc...
How is this different from the present ASCII page, which allows entering all kinds of characters that aren't a valid email address? Seriously. There are three really common entry fields on the web: "Sign up", "Log in" and "Enter your email address to make us send you some mail". A proposed first step that supports zero of those three is going to go nowhere. Arnt
On Wednesday 10 June 2020 05:05:00 CEST, Andre Schappo wrote:
Yes, you are right, it is the same problem except that with Unicode it is hugely more complicated.
I've written several EAI implementations and worked on several sites that include signup pages, and... I haven't noticed any relevant complexity. There's much irrelevant complexity, but in my experience, no relevant complexity.
One could, for instance, state
① A well formed EA consists of ascii characters but not any ascii characters ② A well formed EAI consists of unicode characters but not any unicode characters
So one could. But why would one? The systems I've seen or worked on do basically a) check that the entered string contains a single @ b) check that the part after @ is a domain that exists today c) send a verification mail. I know systems that leave out some of these steps, or that try to detect typos like gamil. But none needed to care about unicode's complexity. You're bikeshedding, dragging in irrelevant complexity, inventing problems.
I doubt there is any email system that would allow me to register an EA with a space in the mailbox name eg "andre schappo@wherever.com"
One I've worked on definitely would allow that, I checked just now. It might be unable to send you your verification email, but "our" system simply accepted the user's input and tried to send email. This isn't unusual, and it's often intentional. The CEO of that company would probably say something like "what matters is whether customers pay, not whether we have their email addresses". Arnt
I think we are just looking at it from different points of view. My focus is on the initial creation of an EAI to ensure it is well formed. I think, for this thread, your focus is on verifying a user entered EA(I) which should be an existing EA(I). André Schappo ________________________________ From: UA-discuss <ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Arnt Gulbrandsen <arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no> Sent: 10 June 2020 08:53 To: ua-discuss@icann.org <ua-discuss@icann.org> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] [UA-EAI] WhatWG issue regarding <input type="email"> is open (#4562) On Wednesday 10 June 2020 05:05:00 CEST, Andre Schappo wrote:
Yes, you are right, it is the same problem except that with Unicode it is hugely more complicated.
I've written several EAI implementations and worked on several sites that include signup pages, and... I haven't noticed any relevant complexity. There's much irrelevant complexity, but in my experience, no relevant complexity.
One could, for instance, state
① A well formed EA consists of ascii characters but not any ascii characters ② A well formed EAI consists of unicode characters but not any unicode characters
So one could. But why would one? The systems I've seen or worked on do basically a) check that the entered string contains a single @ b) check that the part after @ is a domain that exists today c) send a verification mail. I know systems that leave out some of these steps, or that try to detect typos like gamil. But none needed to care about unicode's complexity. You're bikeshedding, dragging in irrelevant complexity, inventing problems.
I doubt there is any email system that would allow me to register an EA with a space in the mailbox name eg "andre schappo@wherever.com"
One I've worked on definitely would allow that, I checked just now. It might be unable to send you your verification email, but "our" system simply accepted the user's input and tried to send email. This isn't unusual, and it's often intentional. The CEO of that company would probably say something like "what matters is whether customers pay, not whether we have their email addresses". Arnt _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
<input type=”email”> needs less validation because it’s a user input field. If you keep to strings that can be entered by normal field typing, you’ll never see any of the odd cases that you’d otherwise want to validate. For initial creation of an EAI, if you want to create email addresses that others can use, make sure there’s a transcription step somewhere in the process of creation of the EAI UA doesn’t mean universal acceptance of ALL Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2020 4:27 AM To: ua-discuss@icann.org Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] [UA-EAI] WhatWG issue regarding <input type="email"> is open (#4562) André Schappo wrote I think we are just looking at it from different points of view. My focus is on the initial creation of an EAI to ensure it is well formed. I think, for this thread, your focus is on verifying a user entered EA(I) which should be an existing EA(I). …
participants (3)
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Andre Schappo -
Arnt Gulbrandsen -
Larry Masinter