Hi Everyone,

My thinking aligns with Avri’s here.  I had been thinking of skills in a very broad way, not just technical skills, and so I had viewed that seeking diversity in skills allowed for a much more inclusive approach.  I think it is highly likely that our and Tijani’s sentiments are aligned, but that we are looking at this issue from different perspectives and so we think we are disagreeing.

I had seen Avri’s amendment to para 2.6 and thought her words were good; hence why I did not offer any alternate words.  However, reacting to Rafik’s request for me to also provide input, I would like to offer the following as an alternate para 2.6 for consideration:

2.6 Skills: Diversity in skills contributes to the quality of ICANN policy formulation, decision making and outreach. It is important to highlight and advocate the advantages of individuals bringing different and diverse skills sets into ICANN's many activities. All  activities and groups within ICANN will benefit from having a diverse range of skills available. Outcomes formulated from diverse skills and knowledge will have higher probability of being accepted by a diverse community.  Achieving diversity in skills should not be seen as a choice between skills and diversity which excludes participation, but rather one which values many skills sets and facilitates inclusion and broad participation. 

Cheers,  Julie

On 23 Feb 2017, at 9:15 AM, avri doria <avri@apc.org> wrote:

Hi,

That may the case with some technical skills, but even then I would not
doubt that there are technically skilled people in the South.  But in
policy that requires an understanding of more that just the technical
details, there is no way the the north understands or is more skilled
than the South. As for any of the other skills like organizational,
economic or law, North, South East or West, seem to be equally skilled
and experienced, especially when it comes to specialized knowledge about
these things in their regions.

avri


On 22-Feb-17 10:43, Seun Ojedeji wrote:
Hello Avri,

I do think the proportion of skills/experience would be more in
regions with higher Internet penetration than those with lower
penetration.
In context of DNS, I think it's logical that there will be more
skilled/experienced people in regions with more Registry/Registrar
organisation.

So I think applying skill/experience in diversity should not be based
solely on people with "higher" skill/experience rating - inessence
skills/experience should be applied in regional context if those two
items would play a role in ensuring true diversity.

Regards
Sent from my LG G4
Kindly excuse brevity and typos

On Feb 22, 2017 14:28, "avri doria" <avri@acm.org
<mailto:avri@acm.org>> wrote:

   Hi,

   I disagree that skills and experience are mainly of the Global
   North.  I
   think that misses the point that diversity is an essential element of
   skills and experience.

   avri

   On 22-Feb-17 04:35, Tijani BEN JEMAA wrote:
Thank you Avri for summarizing the discussion on skills in the
Diversity Sub-Group.

I agree that diversity requirement should not prevail over skills or
experience requirements.
But I don’t think that skills and experience are elements of
diversity, and find this concept dangerous for the diversity; In
   fact,
as everyone knows, skills and experience are mostly present in the
north and if they are taken as elements of diversity, the whole
diversity will be flooded and we will end up with the same case of a
large majority from the north and almost none from the south.

In my opinion, the choice should be done according to the skill and
experience without using very narrow criteria, and in the pool of
those skilled persons, we have to apply the diversity rules.


   -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Tijani BEN JEMAA*
Executive Director
Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (*FMAI*)
Phone: +216 98 330 114 <tel:%2B216%2098%20330%20114>
           +216 52 385 114 <tel:%2B216%2052%20385%20114>

   -----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Le 22 févr. 2017 à 05:43, avri doria <avri@acm.org
   <mailto:avri@acm.org>
<mailto:avri@acm.org <mailto:avri@acm.org>>> a écrit :

Hi.

I did take a try in the doc at including this idea.

**

*2.6 Skills: A variety of skill is important since it is a
   reflection of
the diverse skill set available within the ICANN Community.While
acknowledging the importance of diversity in the accountability
mechanisms, some members of WS2 have expressed their view that
   diversity
requirement should not prevail over skills or experience
   requirements,
but should be an equivalent factor. Others have argued that
   skills and
experience are elements of diversity. Whether diversity is an
   essential
element of skills and experience or skill and experience are
   elements of
diversity ensuring that ICANN is open to diverse participation is
essential to fulfilling the range of skills and experience
   necessary for
ICANN. If an original assessment of candidates is not sufficiently
diverse to fulfill the skill, experience and diversity requirements
necessary, then efforts need to be redoubled until diversity is
achieved..*

**

avri

On 21-Feb-17 18:32, Rafik Dammak wrote:
Hi,

just to add that during the last call

   (https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=64068802
   <https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=64068802>),
we had consensus around the proposal from Avri and that is
   currently
in the document, and getting more input on it.
@Julie can you please send/add a text around your suggestion i.e.
diversity in skill sets?

Best,

Rafik

2017-02-22 7:43 GMT+09:00 Julie Hammer
   <julie.hammer@bigpond.com <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com>
<mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com
   <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com>>
<mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com
   <mailto:julie.hammer@bigpond.com>>>:

  *(To Secretariat Staff:  would you please release this email to
  the list.  I do not have posting rights.  Many thanks.)*

  Also to add to Lousewies’s point and to clarify what I was
   saying
  on the call:  I was suggesting that we shouldn’t be
   representing
  this as skills OR diversity, but rather diversity IN skills
   sets
  ie. listing skills as an element of diversity means that we
   should
  be seeking to have a diversity of (relevant) skills in whatever
  context we are discussing.   In Lousewies’s example, I
   think that
  the argument "they just don't have the
  skills/experience/background” should be turned around on those
  proposing it by highlighting and advocating the advantages of
  having diversity IN the skills set.  Different people have
  different skills and I suggest that all  situations/groups
   benefit
  from having a range of skills available.

  So that is the focus that I was trying to suggest we have
   in the
  paragraph in question.

  I also look forward to seeing everyone in Copenhagen.

  Cheers,  Julie

  On 21 Feb 2017, at 7:10 PM, Lousewies Vanderlaan
  <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org
   <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>
<mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org
   <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>>
  <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org
   <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>>> wrote:

  Just to clarify: I was not supporting the formulation
   persé, I was
  wondering that if it is kept, whether that was the right
   place to
  do it. It seemed more like a general comment, which pertains to
  all the elements of diversity rather than one which applies
   only
  to the point of skills. It is the traditional way in which
   those
  who perpetuate the status quo always argue against the diverse
  candidate: "they just don't have the
  skills/experience/background".  It will be comforting to
   those who
  do not yet see the value of diversity, but I would be more in
  favor of trying to socialize the concept with those people, so
  that resistance becomes negligible.
  It is up to the community to decide whether and when skills
   trump
  diversity, but I generally agree with those who have said that
  this is a false dichotomy.
  On a personal note, I can tell you from long experience I have
  often seen very competent women bypassed for top jobs, with the
  arguments that they lack the skill set. I see the risk for
   abuse
  of this "escape clause ".
  I do not think anyone is advocating for an incompetent
   person from
  for example an underrepresented region/gender to take a
   leadership
  position. If opponents starts to hammer the competence/skills
  argument, it can be helpful to call this out.
  The fact is that we either have enough competent people or we
  should be educating and grooming enough people in the
   pipeline so
  that any gap is temporary and this will become a mute point
   in the
  future (perhaps we can make this explicit in the document?)
  In this regard I believe the document can be very helpful:
   it will
  encourage the clear measurement and reporting of diversity
  throughout the organization, board and the community. Once
   we have
  identified where the gaps are we can make sure we put
   resources in
  those areas to make sure the "argument" of lack of
  qualified/skilled people becomes irrelevant.
  Hoping to see many of you in Copenhagen!
  Lousewies

  ……
  Sent from my phone.
  Lousewies van der Laan

  On 16 Feb 2017, at 13:56, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke
   <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>
<mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>>
  <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>>> wrote:

  Dear Mathieu

  Thanks for the feedback. I agree that the increased
   diversity can
  actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN but
   the pair
  of the conversation we haven't yet considered is the kind of
  skills that would constitutes skills diversity. Would it
   be based
  purely on work experience or academic qualifications or a
  combination of both? Both you and Lousewies raise important
  discussion points and look forwards to further discussions.

  Kind regards

  Fiona Asonga


   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
  *From: *"Mathieu Weill" <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr
   <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr>
<mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr>>
  <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr
   <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr>>>
  *To: *"Rafik Dammak" <rafik.dammak@gmail.com
   <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com>
<mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com>>
  <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com
   <mailto:rafik.dammak@gmail.com>>>, "Lousewies Vanderlaan"
  <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org
   <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>
<mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org
   <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>>
  <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org
   <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>>>
  *Cc: *ws2-diversity@icann.org <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org>
<mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org
   <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org>> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org
   <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org>>
  *Sent: *Wednesday, February 15, 2017 5:19:16 PM
  *Subject: *Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report

  Dear Colleagues,



  I apologize for not being able to make many of the calls, but
  congratulate the group on the progress on the document.



  I did post a comment on the Gdoc, about the following
   sentence :
  “While acknowledging the importance of diversity in the
  accountability mechanisms, members of WS2 have expressed their
  view that diversity requirement should not prevail over
   skills or
  experience requirements.”



  Lousewies was supporting the formulation, and I understand
   where
  she’s coming from on that, but I personally have an issue
   with it
  : it implies that there is a mutually exclusive choice to
   be made
  between skills on the one side, diversity on the other. I
   do not
  share this view. I contend that increased diversity would
  actually expand the diversity of skills within ICANN.



  What do other group members think about it ?



  Whatever the outcome of this discussion, it would be useful to
  detail exactly what kind of skills we want to look at in
   terms of
  skills diversity. Is it legal / technical / market ? Others ?



  Best
  Mathieu



  *De :* ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org
   <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org>
<mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org
   <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org>>
  <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org
   <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org>>
[mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org
   <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org>
  <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org
   <mailto:ws2-diversity-bounces@icann.org>>] *De la part de* Rafik
  Dammak
  *Envoyé :* mardi 14 février 2017 01:03
  *À :* Lousewies Vanderlaan
  *Cc :* ws2-diversity@icann.org
   <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org>
<mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org
   <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org>> <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org
   <mailto:ws2-diversity@icann.org>>
  *Objet :* Re: [Ws2-diversity] Draft 01 Diversity Report



  Dear Lousewies,



  Thanks for the comments!
  I moved the document to this google doc so everyone can
  comment
   https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJtAT0
   <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJtAT0>

   <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJtAT0
   <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ziy7NDZZd9bW08HOxY-CYUx3qQdno5i9Rqp4fOJtAT0>>
,
  the previous document was in word format . it is in suggestion
  mode, so you can propose edits and changes.
  I encourage all members of the subgroup to go through the
  document and add their suggestions. we will add other parts in
  coming days.



  Best,



  Rafik

  2017-02-12 5:33 GMT+09:00 Lousewies Vanderlaan
  <lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org
   <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>
<mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org
   <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>>
  <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org
   <mailto:lousewies.vanderlaan@board.icann.org>>>:

  Dear all,
  Congratulations on a strong first draft.  As you know, as
   board
  liaison I have been mostly observing, but I have taken the
  liberty to make some small comments in the document in a
   personal
  capacity.  Hope its useful.
  I look forward to seeing many of you in Copenhagen.
  best, Lousewies






On 10 Feb 2017, at 17:23, Fiona Asonga <fasonga@kixp.or.ke
   <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>
<mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>>
  <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke <mailto:fasonga@kixp.or.ke>>>
   wrote:

Hallo All

Please find on the link below the first draft of the diversity
  report with consolidated views that have bee shared and
   discussed
  so far on diversity.


   https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharing
   <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharing>

   <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharing
   <https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzFxffuM3Hx_dUV1OWc0cDg5QWc/view?usp=sharing>>

Since the discussion on the Global Accounts is still ongoing we
  have considered the input but would like another round of
  discussion on the same.

Please feel free to share your feedback and edits to the
   document.

Kind regards

Fiona and Rafik

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