Jurisdiction on an existing Obstacle
*Dear Greg* *As raised in todays's meeting * *To become ICANN Accredited Registrar, all registrars need to sign a contract with ICANN and ICANN should applies some criteria before accepting the registrar. ICANN is a US Entity and can't get involved into any contract with the **people of * * some countries This means having an Accredited Registrar for .com and .net and many more gTLDS in those countries is almost impossible. The is business blocker.This is an important issue to be carefully examined and resolve.The question is whether after the transition, still ICANN refrain to sign the contract in question ,if no where that is reflected and if yes, what solution is available to remove such discrimination .RegardsKavouss *
On Friday 10 February 2017 04:07 AM, Kavouss Arasteh wrote:
*Dear Greg* *As raised in todays's meeting * *To become ICANN Accredited Registrar, all registrars need to sign a contract with ICANN and ICANN should applies some criteria before accepting the registrar. ICANN is a US Entity and can't get involved into any contract with the **people of * * some countries This means having an Accredited Registrar for .com and .net and many more gTLDS in those countries is almost impossible. The is business blocker. This is an important issue to be carefully examined and resolve. The question is whether after the transition, still ICANN refrain to sign the contract in question ,if no where that is reflected and if yes, what solution is available to remove such discrimination . *
Obviously nothing changes in this regard with the IANA transition. ICANN remains as much a US organisation, and as much subject to US laws, including those about sanctions, as it always was. Therefore the problematic situation for registrars in the sanctioned countries remain as it was. Not only registrars cannot function in the US sanctioned countries, but it will be pretty impossible for registries for TLDs to function. (A chilling effect <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilling_effect>already operates whereby there is no sense in any business from these countries applying for a gTLD. Meanwhile, there is no way to "prove" the existence of such a chilling effect by prior documented instances as had wrongly been made the condition of what is admitted as facts in this sub group -- that is a part of the very meaning of the chilling effect, that it exists but does not show in action, it shows in inaction.) Further, there have been instances where US based registrars have cancelled domain name accounts of entities in such countries. Please see this in case of Crimea based entities http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/pipermail/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.icann.org/... . Even if while writing contracts ICANN were to become so generous as to make the jurisdiction of non US registrars and registries as the chosen law for adjudication (and there is no likelihood that it will ever get so generous), this applies only to civil matters and not public law, as the laws backing US sanctions are. However the contracts are written, registries, registrars, and ordinary domain owners in countries under sanctions by the US (currently or in the future) remain in an extreme difficult, if not fully non-operational, position. What is this sub group's response to this fact? That is if indeed we work on the behalf of the whole Internet community. As a sub-group we need to begin addressing these specific problems and questions, rather than going in rounds and rounds without making any movement at all. We need to address what is wrong or could possibly be wrong, not write tomes on what is right and going well. There is always something right and going well, the issues to address are what is not, and what to do about it. parminder
* Regards Kavouss
*
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Dear Co-Chairs, Dear Greg I hope you are conscious of this very issue. Rather than as Parminder mentioned making a spiral round and come back on square 1 or in fact square 0 ,pls kindly address this and many other issues that I rassied in my 13 December message which extracted from a bulk of exchanged messages. I seek advice of Co-CHAIRS AND REQUEST ACTIONS FROM THEM Regards Kavouss 2017-02-11 8:16 GMT+01:00 parminder <parminder@itforchange.net>:
On Friday 10 February 2017 04:07 AM, Kavouss Arasteh wrote:
*Dear Greg* *As raised in todays's meeting * *To become ICANN Accredited Registrar, all registrars need to sign a contract with ICANN and ICANN should applies some criteria before accepting the registrar. ICANN is a US Entity and can't get involved into any contract with the **people of * * some countries This means having an Accredited Registrar for .com and .net and many more gTLDS in those countries is almost impossible. The is business blocker. This is an important issue to be carefully examined and resolve. The question is whether after the transition, still ICANN refrain to sign the contract in question ,if no where that is reflected and if yes, what solution is available to remove such discrimination . *
Obviously nothing changes in this regard with the IANA transition. ICANN remains as much a US organisation, and as much subject to US laws, including those about sanctions, as it always was. Therefore the problematic situation for registrars in the sanctioned countries remain as it was. Not only registrars cannot function in the US sanctioned countries, but it will be pretty impossible for registries for TLDs to function. (A chilling effect <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilling_effect>already operates whereby there is no sense in any business from these countries applying for a gTLD. Meanwhile, there is no way to "prove" the existence of such a chilling effect by prior documented instances as had wrongly been made the condition of what is admitted as facts in this sub group -- that is a part of the very meaning of the chilling effect, that it exists but does not show in action, it shows in inaction.)
Further, there have been instances where US based registrars have cancelled domain name accounts of entities in such countries. Please see this in case of Crimea based entities http://atlarge-lists.icann. org/pipermail/na-discuss_atlarge-lists.icann.org/2015-March/008612.html .
Even if while writing contracts ICANN were to become so generous as to make the jurisdiction of non US registrars and registries as the chosen law for adjudication (and there is no likelihood that it will ever get so generous), this applies only to civil matters and not public law, as the laws backing US sanctions are. However the contracts are written, registries, registrars, and ordinary domain owners in countries under sanctions by the US (currently or in the future) remain in an extreme difficult, if not fully non-operational, position.
What is this sub group's response to this fact? That is if indeed we work on the behalf of the whole Internet community.
As a sub-group we need to begin addressing these specific problems and questions, rather than going in rounds and rounds without making any movement at all. We need to address what is wrong or could possibly be wrong, not write tomes on what is right and going well. There is always something right and going well, the issues to address are what is not, and what to do about it.
parminder
* Regards Kavouss *
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_______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction
On 11/02/17 17:20, Kavouss Arasteh wrote:
I seek advice of Co-CHAIRS AND REQUEST ACTIONS FROM THEM
The credibility of argument on mailing lists is inversely proportional to level of metaphorical vociferation. Please don't shout, it hurts my ears! Another way of putting it is -- the higher the total sum of the ASCII codes in an email, the easier it is to accept the point made within.
Dear Nigel I am sorry. As I informed colleagues before, due to one hand availability8 my second hand is operated and nonfunctioning. Moreover, while knowing( even though ) that you are a very knowledgeable person still .it is not necessary to exchange such a very odd style of communication. This is the second time that you criticize me on the way that I write. I hope it would be the last time as I am very much bothered as we are not in school nor one is teacher and the other is the student Best Regards 2017-02-11 18:45 GMT+01:00 Nigel Roberts <nigel@channelisles.net>:
On 11/02/17 17:20, Kavouss Arasteh wrote:
I seek advice of Co-CHAIRS AND REQUEST ACTIONS FROM THEM
The credibility of argument on mailing lists is inversely proportional to level of metaphorical vociferation. Please don't shout, it hurts my ears!
Another way of putting it is -- the higher the total sum of the ASCII codes in an email, the easier it is to accept the point made within.
_______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction
I'm sorry about your hand. But it's an odd style of communication when you 'shout' at the co-chairs. They are of course too polite to mention it. But as you've seen, that doesn't apply to me. Hope your hand gets better soon. On 11/02/17 17:57, Kavouss Arasteh wrote:
Dear Nigel
I am sorry. As I informed colleagues before, due to one hand availability8 my second hand is operated and nonfunctioning.
Moreover, while knowing( even though ) that you are a very knowledgeable person still .it is not necessary to exchange such a very odd style of communication.
This is the second time that you criticize me on the way that I write.
I hope it would be the last time as I am very much bothered as we are not in school nor one is teacher and the other is the student
Best Regards
2017-02-11 18:45 GMT+01:00 Nigel Roberts <nigel@channelisles.net <mailto:nigel@channelisles.net>>:
On 11/02/17 17:20, Kavouss Arasteh wrote:
I seek advice of Co-CHAIRS AND REQUEST ACTIONS FROM THEM
The credibility of argument on mailing lists is inversely proportional to level of metaphorical vociferation. Please don't shout, it hurts my ears!
Another way of putting it is -- the higher the total sum of the ASCII codes in an email, the easier it is to accept the point made within.
_______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction>
Dear Nigel Once again, I apologize as it was a a mistake due to inability of typing finger. I did not shout and it is not my nature to do so Best regards Have a pleasant week-end Kavouss 2017-02-11 19:08 GMT+01:00 Nigel Roberts <nigel@channelisles.net>:
I'm sorry about your hand.
But it's an odd style of communication when you 'shout' at the co-chairs.
They are of course too polite to mention it.
But as you've seen, that doesn't apply to me.
Hope your hand gets better soon.
On 11/02/17 17:57, Kavouss Arasteh wrote:
Dear Nigel
I am sorry. As I informed colleagues before, due to one hand availability8 my second hand is operated and nonfunctioning.
Moreover, while knowing( even though ) that you are a very knowledgeable person still .it is not necessary to exchange such a very odd style of communication.
This is the second time that you criticize me on the way that I write.
I hope it would be the last time as I am very much bothered as we are not in school nor one is teacher and the other is the student
Best Regards
2017-02-11 18:45 GMT+01:00 Nigel Roberts <nigel@channelisles.net <mailto:nigel@channelisles.net>>:
On 11/02/17 17:20, Kavouss Arasteh wrote:
I seek advice of Co-CHAIRS AND REQUEST ACTIONS FROM THEM
The credibility of argument on mailing lists is inversely proportional to level of metaphorical vociferation. Please don't shout, it hurts my ears!
Another way of putting it is -- the higher the total sum of the ASCII codes in an email, the easier it is to accept the point made within.
_______________________________________________ Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org <mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction>
participants (3)
-
Kavouss Arasteh -
Nigel Roberts -
parminder