Dear Co-Chairs Thomas and Mathieu Scheduling a call with 40 minutes notice in the middle of the night is not conducive to an accountable, inclusive approach. greetings, el -- Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On May 1, 2015, at 22:26, List for the work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam <ccwg-accountability5@icann.org> wrote:
Dear all, I’m writing on behalf of Leon. Please confirm ASAP if you are available for a call tonight either in 40min (6PM ET / 22:00 UTC) or at 8PM ET / midnight UTC. We will need to schedule immediately if the firms and subteam are available. Thank you Grace
From: Grace Abuhamad <grace.abuhamad@icann.org> Date: Friday, May 1, 2015 at 3:08 PM To: ccwg-accountability5 <ccwg-accountability5@icann.org> Cc: stevedelbianco <sdelbianco@netchoice.org>, Thomas Rickert <thomas@rickert.net>, Cheryl Langdon-Orr <langdonorr@gmail.com>, Brenda Brewer <brenda.brewer@icann.org> Subject: Need confirmation Re: [Acct-Legal] Fwd: The need for more info on Uninc Assos
Leon — Please confirm whether or not you would like to host this meeting today at 22:00 UTC (6PM Eastern). I will need to know within the hour in order for us to set up the teleconferencing services. Thank you, Grace
From: ccwg-accountability5 <ccwg-accountability5@icann.org> Reply-To: ccwg-accountability5 <ccwg-accountability5@icann.org> Date: Friday, May 1, 2015 at 1:18 PM To: ccwg-accountability5 <ccwg-accountability5@icann.org>, ccwg-accountability5 <ccwg-accountability5@icann.org> Cc: stevedelbianco <sdelbianco@netchoice.org>, Thomas Rickert <thomas@rickert.net>, Cheryl Langdon-Orr <langdonorr@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Acct-Legal] Fwd: The need for more info on Uninc Assos
If 6pm eastern works on the Legal Sub-Team side please have ICANN staff circulate a calendar invite.
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From: ccwg-accountability5-bounces@icann.org on behalf of List for the work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 12:10:50 PM To: 'ccwg-accountability5@icann.org' Cc: stevedelbianco; Thomas Rickert; Cheryl Langdon-Orr Subject: Re: [Acct-Legal] Fwd: The need for more info on Uninc Assos
Counsel have been working on revisions to the questions posed and answered on April 23 concerning UAs, adding a description of the proposed use of UAs, responding to Chris Disspain’s question, and attaching a sample of Articles of Association. Sidley has Adler drafts for review as of last night. I think the revised document will be helpful to address the concerns raised in this thread. I suggest that we get that to you before any call.
I can do a call at 3:30 PM and later today.
Rosemary
From: ccwg-accountability5-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ccwg-accountability5-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of List for the work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 7:46 AM To: ccwg-accountability5@icann.org Cc: stevedelbianco; Thomas Rickert; Cheryl Langdon-Orr Subject: Re: [Acct-Legal] Fwd: The need for more info on Uninc Assos
I can participate this afternoon and evening (NY time). The weekend is basically shot. Tomorrow is difficult after 11 am New York time as I have a birthday brunch with my son followed by a birthday party for my nephew, and travel to/from both. Sunday morning I have an 8:30 am flight to San Diego for the International Trademark Association Annual Meeting.
Greg
On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 8:57 AM, List for the work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam <ccwg-accountability5@icann.org> wrote: Thanks David.
Jordan, Mathieu, Thomas, Cheryl, Steve, Becky?
Saludos,
León
Enviado desde el móvil. Errores tipográficos son culpa del tecladito y mis dedos gordos.
El may 1, 2015, a las 7:36 AM, List for the work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam <ccwg-accountability5@icann.org> escribió:
I could participate at 6pm US eastern time today and most of weekend.
David McAuley
From:ccwg-accountability5-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ccwg-accountability5-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of List for the work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 8:19 AM To: ccwg-accountability5@icann.org Cc: Thomas Rickert; stevedelbianco; Cheryl Langdon-Orr Subject: Re: [Acct-Legal] Fwd: The need for more info on Uninc Assos
Thanks Holly.
I believe today would be difficult but would like to hear from others as to which time would also work for them.
Thanks
Saludos,
León
Enviado desde el móvil. Errores tipográficos son culpa del tecladito y mis dedos gordos.
El may 1, 2015, a las 6:53 AM, List for the work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam <ccwg-accountability5@icann.org> escribió:
Hi Leon, let me check with Rosemary. Are you looking to do this later today? We could potentially do this in the late afternoon. Around 6 eastern. Holly
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From:ccwg-accountability5-bounces@icann.org on behalf of List for the work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 06:29:18 AM To: ccwg-accountability5@icann.org; Thomas Rickert; Jordan Carter; Mathieu Weill; Greg Shatan; stevedelbianco; Cheryl Langdon-Orr; Becky Burr Subject: [Acct-Legal] Fwd: The need for more info on Uninc Assos
Counsel,
When would you be able to hold a call to help clarify the doubts around UAs interaction and general panorama on them?
A one hour conference should be enough I think.
Best regards ,
León
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Inicio del mensaje reenviado:
De: Jordan Carter <jordan@internetnz.net.nz> Fecha: 1 de mayo de 2015, 5:36:41 AM CDT Para: Mathieu Weill <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr> Cc: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>, Thomas Rickert <rickert@anwaelte.de>, León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <leonfelipe@sanchez.mx>, Becky Burr <Becky.Burr@neustar.biz>, Cheryl Langdon-Orr <langdonorr@gmail.com>, stevedelbianco <sdelbianco@netchoice.org>, ACCT-Staff <acct-staff@icann.org> Asunto: Re: The need for more info on Uninc Assos
It isn't about questions, Mathieu. It is about painting the picture of the reality of how this would actually work.
I'm starting to think the best way to resolve that would be a half hour teleconference between us and the legal people. To flesh out how the model would work and write it down.
J.
On Friday, 1 May 2015, Mathieu Weill <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr> wrote: Hi all,
I support as well. I'll leave interaction with lawyers to leon but we would certainly help by starting to point out the questions the community would need answers to ?
Jordan how would you frame them ?
Mathieu Weill --------------- Depuis mon mobile, désolé pour le style
Le 1 mai 2015 à 06:12, Jordan Carter <jordan@internetnz.net.nz> a écrit :
That's just one example...
Leon, how quickly could we do this?
J
On Friday, 1 May 2015, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote: I agree 100%. The overarching criticism of the first CWG report was that it was "too complex" and "lacked detail." Initially I couldn't understand this criticism, because these appeared mutually exclusive. I've come to understand that lack of detail leads to lack of clarity and lack of clarity makes it difficult to grasp the concepts, and concepts that can't quite be grasped appear complex.
Add to this the tendency of some (many?) in the community to insert dynamite into any crack in a proposal they don't favor and then point to the impending explosion....
For a more direct example, look at the recent exchanges involving Chris Disspain, Jordan and myself.
Greg
On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 11:33 PM, Jordan Carter <jordan@internetnz.net.nz> wrote: Hi team (Co-chairs, Rapporteurs, ACCT staff and Greg)
I feel like I am beating my head against a wall on this but: WE NEED to present more information URGENTLY about the unincorporated association concept.
My request would be that we ask the lawyers to add a page of "flavour" and summary about the UAs to the 23 April memo and maybe add a couple of more basic questions people might ask, and turn it into a UA Outline/Q&A document.
Why do I ask this? You can see from the discussions in the group both in calls and on the list that uncertainty around these really isn't helpful.
The 23 April memo from Sidley/Adler does NOT set out a coherent picture of how these associations would "look and feel". Instead it responds to a bunch of quite specific questions, most of which are helpful, but which together only form part of the picture. (https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/52890082/Sidley-Adler%20-%2...)
I am absolutely convinced that we have to be really really clear and open about what these associations would do, what they would look like, how they would sit alongside the SOs and ACs, not envelope them.
In the absence of clarity from us on this point, we are simply asking for confusion or making space for misdirection and F.U.D.
Because I am not from California, I can't write this myself.
Thoughts?
Jordan
-- Jordan Carter
Chief Executive InternetNZ
04 495 2118 (office) | +64 21 442 649 (mob) jordan@internetnz.net.nz Skype: jordancarter
A better world through a better Internet
-- Jordan Carter Chief Executive, InternetNZ +64-21-442-649 | jordan@internetnz.net.nz
Sent on the run, apologies for brevity
-- Jordan Carter Chief Executive, InternetNZ +64-21-442-649 | jordan@internetnz.net.nz
Sent on the run, apologies for brevity
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