Hello all, The notes, recordings and transcripts for CCWG Accountability WS2 Ombudsman Subgroup Meeting #5 - 6 September 2016 will be available here: https://community.icann.org/x/rBGsAw A copy of the notes may be found below. Thank you. With kind regards, Brenda Brewer MSSI Projects & Operations Assistant ICANN - Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers Notes (BT): September 6th, 2016 - 5th meeting 1. Roll Call / Apologies - Welcome - Opening Remarks (5 min SBT & Staff) * * Sebastien Bachollet: welcome to the 5th meeting. 2. Discuss the following chapters of the document (45 min)https://docs.google.com/document/d/192SDRXsnr5ujf1iVj4hj_WMf3fMmYiEhY1ur8E_T... - Dependencies between the sub-groups * * Sebastien Bachollet: Listing of liaisons. - ATRT2 * * Avri Doria: Presentation of ATRT2 recommendation to defer Ombudsman work listed for ATRT2 to CCWG WS2 Ombudsman. * Farzaneh Badii - Whistle blower vs Ombudsman? Should we analyze the ATRT2 recommendations to find what is relevant to us? * Avri Doria: on the Whistle Blower or other internal staff issues the Ombuds has no role currently - this keeps being discussed as to if there is a need to change this. This group should not look at the whistle blower policy as this is for the transparency sub-group but should look at the wider issue of the Ombuds vs staff issues. I will prepare a list of issues for this group from ATRT2 recommendations. * Sebastien Bachollet: action item: Avri Doria should send a document listing the Ombuds related recommendations from ATRT1 and 2. * Avri Doria: will start a Google Drive document listing specific texts from those reports. * Herb Waye Ombuds: It would be good to include the link to the independent review that was conducted for ATRT1 Avri - Stress Tests * * Sebastien Bachollet: Have extracted relevant Stress Test from WS1 and have found 2: 13 and 34. * Farzaneh Badii: Can the Ombuds accept complaints vs a constituency? * Herb Waye: There is no such limitation. The Ombuds can be very accommodating. We are about process and not about decisions such as IRP etc. * Herb Waye Ombuds: It would be good to include the link to the independent review that was conducted for ATRT1 Avri * Mike Silber: Can we see the contribution before a decision is made as to whether it is included or not? I don't think that is the prerogative of the rapporteur, but of the group * Asha Hemrajani: But Herb, there is nothing that says that a dispute between members of different SO/ACs cannot be brought in front of you * Herb Waye: will look at the case files to see how requests which could block a policy decision have been dealt with. * Sebastien Bachollet: will check with Cheryl and Steve if there are examples related to this. - Current role of the ICANN Ombuds Office * Sebastien Bachollet: wanted to go over inclusion of the Ombudsman in PTI. any comments or information on this. * Herb Waye: action Item - will check on this next week. * Asha Hemrajani: it would be good to have the role of the Ombuds explicitly defined for PTI. * General discussion on enforceability. * Herb Waye Ombuds: No Jimson the ombuds can only make recommendations * Asha Hemrajani: @Jimson, we discussed that last time - no, not enforceable * Asha Hemrajani: they are recommendations * Jimson Olufuye: Ok, thanks! * Jimson Olufuye: Clear, thanks. * Farzaneh Badii: as a principle mediation does not yield to enforceable outcome in court. unless there is a settlement agreement * Farzaneh Badii: *unless * Farzaneh Badii: how would ombudsman enforce a resolution? it does not have a enforcement power! * Asha Hemrajani: Yes I am talking about a settlement agreement * Herb Waye: the Ombuds could not enforce. * Farzaneh Badii: ombudsman cannot be an enforcement body * Asha Hemrajani: Thanks Herb...the question then is if the ombuds brokers a mediation settlement in ICANN, who helps to enforce that agreement * Edward Morris: If we want that then it's something different than an Ombudsman. * Karel Douglas: To make the Ombudsman recommendations into enforceable decisions would be to change the Ombudsman into a tribunal type body which would change its function * Karel Douglas: It would be a radical move away from the concept of what an ombudsman does * Edward Morris: There are some cases that may be more appropriate for an IRP , including the CEP, than for an Ombudsman complaint. Perhaps those disputes where enforcement could be problematic or foreseen as such should be sent to other accountability processes from the start. Goodwill is a key component of any Ombudsman process. * Herb Waye: results of mediation is very different vs a recommendation to the Board following a the results of a complaint. 3. Next Meeting 12 Sept @ 19:00 UTC (5 min) * * Asha Hemrajani: Can we have a doodle poll on the time of the calls? 1900UTC inconvenient for me. * Sebastien Bachollet: Staff are not doing doodles for the sub-groups. Also note that all three time slots for this call are well attended. * Asha Hemrajani: Bernard can we have a doodle on this? * Bernard Turcotte: Can do if requested by a Board member. * Sebastien Bachollet: If this is the case I can no longer be responsible for the timing of the calls. Please advise when the next call will be. 4. AOB (5 min)
