DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading)
Sent on behalf of CCWG-ACCT Co-Chairs In preparation for your Recommendation 11 – GAC Advice (first reading) discussion scheduled for your call #78 - Tuesday, 19 January 2016 (12:00 – 15:00 UTC) - please find attached the material to review. Please use this email thread to circulate any comments you may have in advance of the call. Thank you Mathieu, Thomas, León
I think this is another illustration of how we need to be careful in documenting the process for handling comments (other than the Boards). For Recommendation 11 several commenters offered the proposal to add a requirement for GAC advice to be accompanied by a rationale. Given the general acceptance of proposals for rationales in other areas, I would have thought it would have at least been given a note in the prep document. Look forward to discussing on Tues. From: accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Alice Jansen Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 12:01 PM To: accountability-cross-community@icann.org Subject: [CCWG-ACCT] DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading) Sent on behalf of CCWG-ACCT Co-Chairs In preparation for your Recommendation 11 – GAC Advice (first reading) discussion scheduled for your call #78 - Tuesday, 19 January 2016 (12:00 – 15:00 UTC) - please find attached the material to review. Please use this email thread to circulate any comments you may have in advance of the call. Thank you Mathieu, Thomas, León
Mike, Good point and good catch. This should not have been overlooked. Greg On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 9:52 PM, Chartier, Mike S <mike.s.chartier@intel.com
wrote:
I think this is another illustration of how we need to be careful in documenting the process for handling comments (other than the Boards). For Recommendation 11 several commenters offered the proposal to add a requirement for GAC advice to be accompanied by a rationale. Given the general acceptance of proposals for rationales in other areas, I would have thought it would have at least been given a note in the prep document.
Look forward to discussing on Tues.
*From:* accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org [mailto: accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Alice Jansen *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2016 12:01 PM *To:* accountability-cross-community@icann.org *Subject:* [CCWG-ACCT] DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading)
*Sent on behalf of CCWG-ACCT Co-Chairs*
In preparation for your R*ecommendation 11 – GAC Advice (first reading)* discussion scheduled for your call #78 - Tuesday, 19 January 2016 (12:00 – 15:00 UTC) - please find attached the material to review.
Please use this email thread to circulate any comments you may have in advance of the call.
Thank you
Mathieu, Thomas, León
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Mike, Good catch indeed. Precisely the point of our first reading exercise. So we will add this to recommendation 11 agenda item tomorrow. I will note that the current annex includes a related recommendation : · Insert a mention for all ACs: “The AC will make every effort to ensure that the advice provided is clear and supported by a rationale.” Best, Mathieu De : accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org] De la part de Greg Shatan Envoyé : lundi 18 janvier 2016 05:30 À : Chartier, Mike S Cc : accountability-cross-community@icann.org Objet : Re: [CCWG-ACCT] DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading) Mike, Good point and good catch. This should not have been overlooked. Greg On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 9:52 PM, Chartier, Mike S <mike.s.chartier@intel.com> wrote: I think this is another illustration of how we need to be careful in documenting the process for handling comments (other than the Boards). For Recommendation 11 several commenters offered the proposal to add a requirement for GAC advice to be accompanied by a rationale. Given the general acceptance of proposals for rationales in other areas, I would have thought it would have at least been given a note in the prep document. Look forward to discussing on Tues. From: accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Alice Jansen Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 12:01 PM To: accountability-cross-community@icann.org Subject: [CCWG-ACCT] DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading) Sent on behalf of CCWG-ACCT Co-Chairs In preparation for your Recommendation 11 – GAC Advice (first reading) discussion scheduled for your call #78 - Tuesday, 19 January 2016 (12:00 – 15:00 UTC) - please find attached the material to review. Please use this email thread to circulate any comments you may have in advance of the call. Thank you Mathieu, Thomas, León _______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Dear All, Thank you for your message and reminders, May I ask you to kindly give atleast few example of any of those " Rationale" Tks Kavouss 2016-01-18 9:10 GMT+01:00 Mathieu Weill <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr>:
Mike,
Good catch indeed. Precisely the point of our first reading exercise.
So we will add this to recommendation 11 agenda item tomorrow.
I will note that the current annex includes a related recommendation :
· Insert a mention for all ACs: “The AC will make every effort to ensure that the advice provided is clear and supported by a rationale.”
Best,
Mathieu
*De :* accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org [mailto: accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org] *De la part de* Greg Shatan *Envoyé :* lundi 18 janvier 2016 05:30 *À :* Chartier, Mike S *Cc :* accountability-cross-community@icann.org *Objet :* Re: [CCWG-ACCT] DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading)
Mike,
Good point and good catch. This should not have been overlooked.
Greg
On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 9:52 PM, Chartier, Mike S < mike.s.chartier@intel.com> wrote:
I think this is another illustration of how we need to be careful in documenting the process for handling comments (other than the Boards). For Recommendation 11 several commenters offered the proposal to add a requirement for GAC advice to be accompanied by a rationale. Given the general acceptance of proposals for rationales in other areas, I would have thought it would have at least been given a note in the prep document.
Look forward to discussing on Tues.
*From:* accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org [mailto: accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Alice Jansen *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2016 12:01 PM *To:* accountability-cross-community@icann.org *Subject:* [CCWG-ACCT] DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading)
*Sent on behalf of CCWG-ACCT Co-Chairs*
In preparation for your R*ecommendation 11 – GAC Advice (first reading)* discussion scheduled for your call #78 - Tuesday, 19 January 2016 (12:00 – 15:00 UTC) - please find attached the material to review.
Please use this email thread to circulate any comments you may have in advance of the call.
Thank you
Mathieu, Thomas, León
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Hi, The most basic example could go in the form "... We recommend xyz on the abc reason/basis" Regards On 18 Jan 2016 9:16 a.m., "Kavouss Arasteh" <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear All, Thank you for your message and reminders, May I ask you to kindly give atleast few example of any of those " Rationale" Tks Kavouss
2016-01-18 9:10 GMT+01:00 Mathieu Weill <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr>:
Mike,
Good catch indeed. Precisely the point of our first reading exercise.
So we will add this to recommendation 11 agenda item tomorrow.
I will note that the current annex includes a related recommendation :
· Insert a mention for all ACs: “The AC will make every effort to ensure that the advice provided is clear and supported by a rationale.”
Best,
Mathieu
*De :* accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org [mailto: accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org] *De la part de* Greg Shatan *Envoyé :* lundi 18 janvier 2016 05:30 *À :* Chartier, Mike S *Cc :* accountability-cross-community@icann.org *Objet :* Re: [CCWG-ACCT] DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading)
Mike,
Good point and good catch. This should not have been overlooked.
Greg
On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 9:52 PM, Chartier, Mike S < mike.s.chartier@intel.com> wrote:
I think this is another illustration of how we need to be careful in documenting the process for handling comments (other than the Boards). For Recommendation 11 several commenters offered the proposal to add a requirement for GAC advice to be accompanied by a rationale. Given the general acceptance of proposals for rationales in other areas, I would have thought it would have at least been given a note in the prep document.
Look forward to discussing on Tues.
*From:* accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org [mailto: accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Alice Jansen *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2016 12:01 PM *To:* accountability-cross-community@icann.org *Subject:* [CCWG-ACCT] DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading)
*Sent on behalf of CCWG-ACCT Co-Chairs*
In preparation for your R*ecommendation 11 – GAC Advice (first reading)* discussion scheduled for your call #78 - Tuesday, 19 January 2016 (12:00 – 15:00 UTC) - please find attached the material to review.
Please use this email thread to circulate any comments you may have in advance of the call.
Thank you
Mathieu, Thomas, León
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
No, the most basic example could go in the form "... We recommend xyz on the abc reason/basis, but we are amenable to have our mind changed for us any time." el On 2016-01-18 10:22, Seun Ojedeji wrote:
Hi, The most basic example could go in the form "... We recommend xyz on the abc reason/basis"
Regards [...]
-- Dr. Eberhard W. Lisse \ / Obstetrician & Gynaecologist (Saar) el@lisse.NA / * | Telephone: +264 81 124 6733 (cell) PO Box 8421 \ / Bachbrecht, Namibia ;____/
Msthiru You See that people opening A new topic???? Kavouss Sent from my iPhone
On 18 Jan 2016, at 09:22, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, The most basic example could go in the form "... We recommend xyz on the abc reason/basis"
Regards
On 18 Jan 2016 9:16 a.m., "Kavouss Arasteh" <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com> wrote: Dear All, Thank you for your message and reminders, May I ask you to kindly give atleast few example of any of those " Rationale" Tks Kavouss
2016-01-18 9:10 GMT+01:00 Mathieu Weill <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr>:
Mike,
Good catch indeed. Precisely the point of our first reading exercise.
So we will add this to recommendation 11 agenda item tomorrow.
I will note that the current annex includes a related recommendation :
· Insert a mention for all ACs: “The AC will make every effort to ensure that the advice provided is clear and supported by a rationale.”
Best,
Mathieu
De : accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org] De la part de Greg Shatan Envoyé : lundi 18 janvier 2016 05:30 À : Chartier, Mike S Cc : accountability-cross-community@icann.org Objet : Re: [CCWG-ACCT] DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading)
Mike,
Good point and good catch. This should not have been overlooked.
Greg
On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 9:52 PM, Chartier, Mike S <mike.s.chartier@intel.com> wrote:
I think this is another illustration of how we need to be careful in documenting the process for handling comments (other than the Boards). For Recommendation 11 several commenters offered the proposal to add a requirement for GAC advice to be accompanied by a rationale. Given the general acceptance of proposals for rationales in other areas, I would have thought it would have at least been given a note in the prep document.
Look forward to discussing on Tues.
From: accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Alice Jansen Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 12:01 PM To: accountability-cross-community@icann.org Subject: [CCWG-ACCT] DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading)
Sent on behalf of CCWG-ACCT Co-Chairs
In preparation for your Recommendation 11 – GAC Advice (first reading) discussion scheduled for your call #78 - Tuesday, 19 January 2016 (12:00 – 15:00 UTC) - please find attached the material to review.
Please use this email thread to circulate any comments you may have in advance of the call.
Thank you
Mathieu, Thomas, León
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Sure. For instance with regard to removal of individual Board members, our third proposal required a rationale to be provided before the Community conference. In our call #74 it was proposed to include a rationale even earlier in the process at the petition phase. It seems to be a good idea that when there is some action proposed, that a reason is given for why the action is needed. From: Kavouss Arasteh [mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 3:16 AM To: Mathieu Weill <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr> Cc: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>; Chartier, Mike S <mike.s.chartier@intel.com>; accountability-cross-community@icann.org Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading) Dear All, Thank you for your message and reminders, May I ask you to kindly give atleast few example of any of those " Rationale" Tks Kavouss 2016-01-18 9:10 GMT+01:00 Mathieu Weill <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr<mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr>>: Mike, Good catch indeed. Precisely the point of our first reading exercise. So we will add this to recommendation 11 agenda item tomorrow. I will note that the current annex includes a related recommendation : • Insert a mention for all ACs: “The AC will make every effort to ensure that the advice provided is clear and supported by a rationale.” Best, Mathieu De : accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org>] De la part de Greg Shatan Envoyé : lundi 18 janvier 2016 05:30 À : Chartier, Mike S Cc : accountability-cross-community@icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org> Objet : Re: [CCWG-ACCT] DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading) Mike, Good point and good catch. This should not have been overlooked. Greg On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 9:52 PM, Chartier, Mike S <mike.s.chartier@intel.com<mailto:mike.s.chartier@intel.com>> wrote: I think this is another illustration of how we need to be careful in documenting the process for handling comments (other than the Boards). For Recommendation 11 several commenters offered the proposal to add a requirement for GAC advice to be accompanied by a rationale. Given the general acceptance of proposals for rationales in other areas, I would have thought it would have at least been given a note in the prep document. Look forward to discussing on Tues. From: accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Alice Jansen Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 12:01 PM To: accountability-cross-community@icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org> Subject: [CCWG-ACCT] DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading) Sent on behalf of CCWG-ACCT Co-Chairs In preparation for your Recommendation 11 – GAC Advice (first reading) discussion scheduled for your call #78 - Tuesday, 19 January 2016 (12:00 – 15:00 UTC) - please find attached the material to review. Please use this email thread to circulate any comments you may have in advance of the call. Thank you Mathieu, Thomas, León _______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org<mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community _______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org<mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Folks I disagree. Unless there are objective standards set for such removal, then the requirement of a provision of a rationale opens up the Corporation for unlimited litigation based on whether the rationale provided was a good reason for removal. The ONLY objective rationale for removal is that "X% of those entitled to vote in the matter have voted for removal". You will not, obviously, achieve X% unless a convincing reason is put. But a convincing reason can, quite reasonably be that "we (the SO, for example) do not like his/her performance on the Board" The requirement for justifying a petition is just a way to make it harder for those seeking to exercise the power. On 01/18/2016 08:46 AM, Chartier, Mike S wrote:
Sure.
For instance with regard to removal of individual Board members, our third proposal required a rationale to be provided before the Community conference. In our call #74 it was proposed to include a rationale even earlier in the process at the petition phase.
It seems to be a good idea that when there is some action proposed, that a reason is given for why the action is needed.
*From:*Kavouss Arasteh [mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com] *Sent:* Monday, January 18, 2016 3:16 AM *To:* Mathieu Weill <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr> *Cc:* Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>; Chartier, Mike S <mike.s.chartier@intel.com>; accountability-cross-community@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [CCWG-ACCT] DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading)
Dear All,
Thank you for your message and reminders,
May I ask you to kindly give atleast few example of any of those " Rationale"
Tks
Kavouss
2016-01-18 9:10 GMT+01:00 Mathieu Weill <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr>>:
Mike,
Good catch indeed. Precisely the point of our first reading exercise.
So we will add this to recommendation 11 agenda item tomorrow.
I will note that the current annex includes a related recommendation :
·Insert a mention for all ACs: “The AC will make every effort to ensure that the advice provided is clear and supported by a rationale.”
Best,
Mathieu
*De :*accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org <mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org <mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org>] *De la part de* Greg Shatan *Envoyé :* lundi 18 janvier 2016 05:30 *À :* Chartier, Mike S *Cc :* accountability-cross-community@icann.org <mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org> *Objet :* Re: [CCWG-ACCT] DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading)
Mike,
Good point and good catch. This should not have been overlooked.
Greg
On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 9:52 PM, Chartier, Mike S <mike.s.chartier@intel.com <mailto:mike.s.chartier@intel.com>> wrote:
I think this is another illustration of how we need to be careful in documenting the process for handling comments (other than the Boards). For Recommendation 11 several commenters offered the proposal to add a requirement for GAC advice to be accompanied by a rationale. Given the general acceptance of proposals for rationales in other areas, I would have thought it would have at least been given a note in the prep document.
Look forward to discussing on Tues.
*From:*accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org <mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org <mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Alice Jansen *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2016 12:01 PM *To:* accountability-cross-community@icann.org <mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org> *Subject:* [CCWG-ACCT] DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading)
_Sent on behalf of CCWG-ACCT Co-Chairs_
In preparation for your R/ecommendation 11 – GAC Advice (first reading)/ discussion scheduled for your call #78 - Tuesday, 19 January 2016 (12:00 – 15:00 UTC) - please find attached the material to review.
Please use this email thread to circulate any comments you may have in advance of the call.
Thank you
Mathieu, Thomas, León
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org <mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org <mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Nigel+1 Kavouss Sent from my iPhone
On 18 Jan 2016, at 10:42, Nigel Roberts <nigel@channelisles.net> wrote:
Folks
I disagree.
Unless there are objective standards set for such removal, then the requirement of a provision of a rationale opens up the Corporation for unlimited litigation based on whether the rationale provided was a good reason for removal.
The ONLY objective rationale for removal is that "X% of those entitled to vote in the matter have voted for removal".
You will not, obviously, achieve X% unless a convincing reason is put.
But a convincing reason can, quite reasonably be that "we (the SO, for example) do not like his/her performance on the Board"
The requirement for justifying a petition is just a way to make it harder for those seeking to exercise the power.
On 01/18/2016 08:46 AM, Chartier, Mike S wrote: Sure.
For instance with regard to removal of individual Board members, our third proposal required a rationale to be provided before the Community conference. In our call #74 it was proposed to include a rationale even earlier in the process at the petition phase.
It seems to be a good idea that when there is some action proposed, that a reason is given for why the action is needed.
*From:*Kavouss Arasteh [mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com] *Sent:* Monday, January 18, 2016 3:16 AM *To:* Mathieu Weill <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr> *Cc:* Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>; Chartier, Mike S <mike.s.chartier@intel.com>; accountability-cross-community@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [CCWG-ACCT] DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading)
Dear All,
Thank you for your message and reminders,
May I ask you to kindly give atleast few example of any of those " Rationale"
Tks
Kavouss
2016-01-18 9:10 GMT+01:00 Mathieu Weill <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr>>:
Mike,
Good catch indeed. Precisely the point of our first reading exercise.
So we will add this to recommendation 11 agenda item tomorrow.
I will note that the current annex includes a related recommendation :
·Insert a mention for all ACs: “The AC will make every effort to ensure that the advice provided is clear and supported by a rationale.”
Best,
Mathieu
*De :*accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org <mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org <mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org>] *De la part de* Greg Shatan *Envoyé :* lundi 18 janvier 2016 05:30 *À :* Chartier, Mike S *Cc :* accountability-cross-community@icann.org <mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org> *Objet :* Re: [CCWG-ACCT] DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading)
Mike,
Good point and good catch. This should not have been overlooked.
Greg
On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 9:52 PM, Chartier, Mike S <mike.s.chartier@intel.com <mailto:mike.s.chartier@intel.com>> wrote:
I think this is another illustration of how we need to be careful in documenting the process for handling comments (other than the Boards). For Recommendation 11 several commenters offered the proposal to add a requirement for GAC advice to be accompanied by a rationale. Given the general acceptance of proposals for rationales in other areas, I would have thought it would have at least been given a note in the prep document.
Look forward to discussing on Tues.
*From:*accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org <mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org <mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Alice Jansen *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2016 12:01 PM *To:* accountability-cross-community@icann.org <mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org> *Subject:* [CCWG-ACCT] DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading)
_Sent on behalf of CCWG-ACCT Co-Chairs_
In preparation for your R/ecommendation 11 – GAC Advice (first reading)/ discussion scheduled for your call #78 - Tuesday, 19 January 2016 (12:00 – 15:00 UTC) - please find attached the material to review.
Please use this email thread to circulate any comments you may have in advance of the call.
Thank you
Mathieu, Thomas, León
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org <mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org <mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Dear All, The rationale behind the removal of the individual Board's member was first suggested by Board and agreed provisionally ,if not definitively by CCWG. Is it not a rishk to start a new rounds of exchange of views on nationales which may be not easy to draft and agree upfront fior all powers? regards kavouss 2016-01-18 11:21 GMT+01:00 Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com>:
Nigel+1 Kavouss
Sent from my iPhone
On 18 Jan 2016, at 10:42, Nigel Roberts <nigel@channelisles.net> wrote:
Folks
I disagree.
Unless there are objective standards set for such removal, then the requirement of a provision of a rationale opens up the Corporation for unlimited litigation based on whether the rationale provided was a good reason for removal.
The ONLY objective rationale for removal is that "X% of those entitled to vote in the matter have voted for removal".
You will not, obviously, achieve X% unless a convincing reason is put.
But a convincing reason can, quite reasonably be that "we (the SO, for example) do not like his/her performance on the Board"
The requirement for justifying a petition is just a way to make it harder for those seeking to exercise the power.
On 01/18/2016 08:46 AM, Chartier, Mike S wrote: Sure.
For instance with regard to removal of individual Board members, our third proposal required a rationale to be provided before the Community conference. In our call #74 it was proposed to include a rationale even earlier in the process at the petition phase.
It seems to be a good idea that when there is some action proposed, that a reason is given for why the action is needed.
*From:*Kavouss Arasteh [mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com] *Sent:* Monday, January 18, 2016 3:16 AM *To:* Mathieu Weill <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr> *Cc:* Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>; Chartier, Mike S <mike.s.chartier@intel.com>; accountability-cross-community@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [CCWG-ACCT] DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading)
Dear All,
Thank you for your message and reminders,
May I ask you to kindly give atleast few example of any of those " Rationale"
Tks
Kavouss
2016-01-18 9:10 GMT+01:00 Mathieu Weill <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr <mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr>>:
Mike,
Good catch indeed. Precisely the point of our first reading exercise.
So we will add this to recommendation 11 agenda item tomorrow.
I will note that the current annex includes a related recommendation :
·Insert a mention for all ACs: “The AC will make every effort to ensure that the advice provided is clear and supported by a rationale.”
Best,
Mathieu
*De :*accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org <mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org <mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org>] *De la part de* Greg Shatan *Envoyé :* lundi 18 janvier 2016 05:30 *À :* Chartier, Mike S *Cc :* accountability-cross-community@icann.org <mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org> *Objet :* Re: [CCWG-ACCT] DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading)
Mike,
Good point and good catch. This should not have been overlooked.
Greg
On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 9:52 PM, Chartier, Mike S <mike.s.chartier@intel.com <mailto:mike.s.chartier@intel.com>> wrote:
I think this is another illustration of how we need to be careful in documenting the process for handling comments (other than the Boards). For Recommendation 11 several commenters offered the proposal to add a requirement for GAC advice to be accompanied by a rationale. Given the general acceptance of proposals for rationales in other areas, I would have thought it would have at least been given a note in the prep document.
Look forward to discussing on Tues.
*From:*accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org <mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org <mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Alice Jansen *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2016 12:01 PM *To:* accountability-cross-community@icann.org <mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org> *Subject:* [CCWG-ACCT] DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading)
_Sent on behalf of CCWG-ACCT Co-Chairs_
In preparation for your R/ecommendation 11 – GAC Advice (first reading)/ discussion scheduled for your call #78 - Tuesday, 19 January 2016 (12:00 – 15:00 UTC) - please find attached the material to review.
Please use this email thread to circulate any comments you may have in advance of the call.
Thank you
Mathieu, Thomas, León
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“So we will add this to recommendation 11 agenda item tomorrow. ” Curious as to how is that done? (since it doesn’t seem to have been added to the discussion doc). From: Mathieu Weill [mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr] Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 3:11 AM To: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com>; Chartier, Mike S <mike.s.chartier@intel.com> Cc: accountability-cross-community@icann.org Subject: RE: [CCWG-ACCT] DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading) Mike, Good catch indeed. Precisely the point of our first reading exercise. So we will add this to recommendation 11 agenda item tomorrow. I will note that the current annex includes a related recommendation : · Insert a mention for all ACs: “The AC will make every effort to ensure that the advice provided is clear and supported by a rationale.” Best, Mathieu De : accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org] De la part de Greg Shatan Envoyé : lundi 18 janvier 2016 05:30 À : Chartier, Mike S Cc : accountability-cross-community@icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org> Objet : Re: [CCWG-ACCT] DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading) Mike, Good point and good catch. This should not have been overlooked. Greg On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 9:52 PM, Chartier, Mike S <mike.s.chartier@intel.com<mailto:mike.s.chartier@intel.com>> wrote: I think this is another illustration of how we need to be careful in documenting the process for handling comments (other than the Boards). For Recommendation 11 several commenters offered the proposal to add a requirement for GAC advice to be accompanied by a rationale. Given the general acceptance of proposals for rationales in other areas, I would have thought it would have at least been given a note in the prep document. Look forward to discussing on Tues. From: accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Alice Jansen Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 12:01 PM To: accountability-cross-community@icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org> Subject: [CCWG-ACCT] DOCUMENT - Rec 11 - GAC Advice (first reading) Sent on behalf of CCWG-ACCT Co-Chairs In preparation for your Recommendation 11 – GAC Advice (first reading) discussion scheduled for your call #78 - Tuesday, 19 January 2016 (12:00 – 15:00 UTC) - please find attached the material to review. Please use this email thread to circulate any comments you may have in advance of the call. Thank you Mathieu, Thomas, León _______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org<mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Dear all Maybe the Board could give its input on the comment raised by the IPC (see "key discussion item" 1). That could be helpful. regards Jorge Von meinem iPhone gesendet Am 15.01.2016 um 18:07 schrieb Alice Jansen <alice.jansen@icann.org<mailto:alice.jansen@icann.org>>: Sent on behalf of CCWG-ACCT Co-Chairs In preparation for your Recommendation 11 – GAC Advice (first reading) discussion scheduled for your call #78 - Tuesday, 19 January 2016 (12:00 – 15:00 UTC) - please find attached the material to review. Please use this email thread to circulate any comments you may have in advance of the call. Thank you Mathieu, Thomas, León <Rec 11 - GAC Advice.pdf> _______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org<mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
participants (9)
-
Alice Jansen -
Chartier, Mike S -
Dr Eberhard W Lisse -
Greg Shatan -
Jorge.Cancio＠bakom.admin.ch -
Kavouss Arasteh -
Mathieu Weill -
Nigel Roberts -
Seun Ojedeji