Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Membership thoughts
Hello Greg,
Just brainstorming: one possibility may be to create "mirror" or "alter ego" organizations (perhaps corporations, perhaps some other form of organized entity), roughly along the lines of the NRO/ASO relationship (the ASO is an ICANN internal structure, while the NRO is not, yet they are essentially "alter egos"). Thus, each SO and AC could create an entity independent of ICANN, but answerable to that SO and AC. The external entities could then be members of ICANN.
My understanding also is that to be "members" the organizations would need to be legal entities. In a few of the examples given in this thread, the "coordinating" organizations are not yet established as legal entities. For example, the Number Resource Organization ( https://www.nro.net/) is a coordinating body for the 5 Regional Internet Registries (RIRs). These five RIRs are legal entities - so it may make more sense for them to be the "members" of ICANN. My understanding is that groups like the Registrar constituency, and the registrar stakeholder group (http://www.icannregistrars.org/ ) are deliberately not established as legal entities, or as trade associations. They are coordinating groups - but any legal agreements etc are always between individual registrars as legal entities and ICANN. Recently a domain name industry association was established - I assume this is a legal entity (http://www.thedna.org/ ). Regards, Bruce Tonkin
Just to state this early, over my dead boy will the Regional Organizations of the ccNSO have anything to do or say in this. I would not mind every (cc)TLD Manager. el Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On Jan 24, 2015, at 01:32, Bruce Tonkin <Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au> wrote:
Hello Greg,
Just brainstorming: one possibility may be to create "mirror" or "alter ego" organizations (perhaps corporations, perhaps some other form of organized entity), roughly along the lines of the NRO/ASO relationship (the ASO is an ICANN internal structure, while the NRO is not, yet they are essentially "alter egos"). Thus, each SO and AC could create an entity independent of ICANN, but answerable to that SO and AC. The external entities could then be members of ICANN.
My understanding also is that to be "members" the organizations would need to be legal entities. In a few of the examples given in this thread, the "coordinating" organizations are not yet established as legal entities.
For example, the Number Resource Organization ( https://www.nro.net/) is a coordinating body for the 5 Regional Internet Registries (RIRs). These five RIRs are legal entities - so it may make more sense for them to be the "members" of ICANN.
My understanding is that groups like the Registrar constituency, and the registrar stakeholder group (http://www.icannregistrars.org/ ) are deliberately not established as legal entities, or as trade associations. They are coordinating groups - but any legal agreements etc are always between individual registrars as legal entities and ICANN. Recently a domain name industry association was established - I assume this is a legal entity (http://www.thedna.org/ ).
Regards, Bruce Tonkin
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Could you explain your reasoning so that we can better understand your position? Thank you. Greg Shatan *Gregory S. Shatan * Partner | *Abelman Frayne & Schwab* *666 Third Avenue **|** New York, NY 10017-5621* *Direct* 212-885-9253 *| **Main* 212-949-9022 *Fax* 212-949-9190 *|* *Cell *917-816-6428 *gsshatan@lawabel.com <gsshatan@lawabel.com>* *ICANN-related: gregshatanipc@gmail.com <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> * *www.lawabel.com <http://www.lawabel.com/>* On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 12:36 AM, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <el@lisse.na> wrote:
Just to state this early, over my dead boy will the Regional Organizations of the ccNSO have anything to do or say in this.
I would not mind every (cc)TLD Manager.
el
Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On Jan 24, 2015, at 01:32, Bruce Tonkin <Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au> wrote:
Hello Greg,
Just brainstorming: one possibility may be to create "mirror" or "alter ego" organizations (perhaps corporations, perhaps some other form of organized entity), roughly along the lines of the NRO/ASO relationship (the ASO is an ICANN internal structure, while the NRO is not, yet they are essentially "alter egos"). Thus, each SO and AC could create an entity independent of ICANN, but answerable to that SO and AC. The external entities could then be members of ICANN.
My understanding also is that to be "members" the organizations would need to be legal entities. In a few of the examples given in this thread, the "coordinating" organizations are not yet established as legal entities.
For example, the Number Resource Organization ( https://www.nro.net/) is a coordinating body for the 5 Regional Internet Registries (RIRs). These five RIRs are legal entities - so it may make more sense for them to be the "members" of ICANN.
My understanding is that groups like the Registrar constituency, and the registrar stakeholder group (http://www.icannregistrars.org/ ) are deliberately not established as legal entities, or as trade associations. They are coordinating groups - but any legal agreements etc are always between individual registrars as legal entities and ICANN. Recently a domain name industry association was established - I assume this is a legal entity (http://www.thedna.org/ ).
Regards, Bruce Tonkin
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Yes, I am fundamentally opposed to the Regional Organizations of the ccNSO having anything to do with or say in this. I have no objections against all (cc)TLD Managers becoming "members". el Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On Jan 24, 2015, at 07:56, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote:
Could you explain your reasoning so that we can better understand your position? Thank you.
Greg Shatan
Gregory S. Shatan Partner | Abelman Frayne & Schwab 666 Third Avenue | New York, NY 10017-5621 Direct 212-885-9253 | Main 212-949-9022 Fax 212-949-9190 | Cell 917-816-6428 gsshatan@lawabel.com ICANN-related: gregshatanipc@gmail.com www.lawabel.com
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 12:36 AM, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <el@lisse.na> wrote: Just to state this early, over my dead boy will the Regional Organizations of the ccNSO have anything to do or say in this.
I would not mind every (cc)TLD Manager.
el
Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On Jan 24, 2015, at 01:32, Bruce Tonkin <Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au> wrote:
Hello Greg,
Just brainstorming: one possibility may be to create "mirror" or "alter ego" organizations (perhaps corporations, perhaps some other form of organized entity), roughly along the lines of the NRO/ASO relationship (the ASO is an ICANN internal structure, while the NRO is not, yet they are essentially "alter egos"). Thus, each SO and AC could create an entity independent of ICANN, but answerable to that SO and AC. The external entities could then be members of ICANN.
My understanding also is that to be "members" the organizations would need to be legal entities. In a few of the examples given in this thread, the "coordinating" organizations are not yet established as legal entities.
For example, the Number Resource Organization ( https://www.nro.net/) is a coordinating body for the 5 Regional Internet Registries (RIRs). These five RIRs are legal entities - so it may make more sense for them to be the "members" of ICANN.
My understanding is that groups like the Registrar constituency, and the registrar stakeholder group (http://www.icannregistrars.org/ ) are deliberately not established as legal entities, or as trade associations. They are coordinating groups - but any legal agreements etc are always between individual registrars as legal entities and ICANN. Recently a domain name industry association was established - I assume this is a legal entity (http://www.thedna.org/ ).
Regards, Bruce Tonkin
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
The question was: " Could you explain your reasoning so that we can better understand your position? " And your response is that you "fundamentally" oppose it... Perhaps you can do better in giving reason. Thanks sent from Google nexus 4 kindly excuse brevity and typos. On 24 Jan 2015 07:28, "Dr Eberhard W Lisse" <el@lisse.na> wrote:
Yes,
I am fundamentally opposed to the Regional Organizations of the ccNSO having anything to do with or say in this.
I have no objections against all (cc)TLD Managers becoming "members".
el
Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On Jan 24, 2015, at 07:56, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote:
Could you explain your reasoning so that we can better understand your position? Thank you.
Greg Shatan
*Gregory S. Shatan *
Partner | *Abelman Frayne & Schwab*
*666 Third Avenue **|** New York, NY 10017-5621*
*Direct* 212-885-9253 *| **Main* 212-949-9022
*Fax* 212-949-9190 *|* *Cell *917-816-6428
*gsshatan@lawabel.com <gsshatan@lawabel.com>*
*ICANN-related: gregshatanipc@gmail.com <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> *
*www.lawabel.com <http://www.lawabel.com/>*
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 12:36 AM, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <el@lisse.na> wrote:
Just to state this early, over my dead boy will the Regional Organizations of the ccNSO have anything to do or say in this.
I would not mind every (cc)TLD Manager.
el
Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On Jan 24, 2015, at 01:32, Bruce Tonkin < Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au> wrote:
Hello Greg,
Just brainstorming: one possibility may be to create "mirror" or "alter ego" organizations (perhaps corporations, perhaps some other form of organized entity), roughly along the lines of the NRO/ASO relationship (the ASO is an ICANN internal structure, while the NRO is not, yet they are essentially "alter egos"). Thus, each SO and AC could create an entity independent of ICANN, but answerable to that SO and AC. The external entities could then be members of ICANN.
My understanding also is that to be "members" the organizations would need to be legal entities. In a few of the examples given in this thread, the "coordinating" organizations are not yet established as legal entities.
For example, the Number Resource Organization ( https://www.nro.net/) is a coordinating body for the 5 Regional Internet Registries (RIRs). These five RIRs are legal entities - so it may make more sense for them to be the "members" of ICANN.
My understanding is that groups like the Registrar constituency, and the registrar stakeholder group (http://www.icannregistrars.org/ ) are deliberately not established as legal entities, or as trade associations. They are coordinating groups - but any legal agreements etc are always between individual registrars as legal entities and ICANN. Recently a domain name industry association was established - I assume this is a legal entity (http://www.thedna.org/ ).
Regards, Bruce Tonkin
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Dear co-chairs, can you please ask this individual whether he would not feel more comfortable to continue trolling on the AFRICANN mailing list instead of this one? He is most certainly not willing to inform himself prior to writing emails, never mind the fullquote. In any case and notwithstanding that my position on the regional organization(s) has been well documented for well over 8 years, as not all ccTLD Managers are members of a RO, even a legitimate RO can only represent represent its members. This is consistent with my repeatedly stated position that AC/SOs can not be come "members" as they do not represent all TLDs. Even to the the most cursory observer it should be obvious that adding unaccountable "members" will not increase Accountability. el Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On Jan 24, 2015, at 12:23, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com> wrote:
The question was:
" Could you explain your reasoning so that we can better understand your position? "
And your response is that you "fundamentally" oppose it... Perhaps you can do better in giving reason.
Thanks sent from Google nexus 4 kindly excuse brevity and typos.
[...]
sent from Google nexus 4 kindly excuse brevity and typos. On 24 Jan 2015 11:50, "Dr Eberhard W Lisse" <el@lisse.na> wrote:
<snip> Now you have written what looks like reason below, which makes it a helpful response to the question asked. Thanks
In any case and notwithstanding that my position on the regional
organization(s) has been well documented for well over 8 years, as not all ccTLD Managers are members of a RO, even a legitimate RO can only represent represent its members.
This is consistent with my repeatedly stated position that AC/SOs can not
be come "members" as they do not represent all TLDs.
Even to the the most cursory observer it should be obvious that adding
unaccountable "members" will not increase Accountability.
el
Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On Jan 24, 2015, at 12:23, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com> wrote:
The question was:
" Could you explain your reasoning so that we can better understand your
position? "
And your response is that you "fundamentally" oppose it... Perhaps you
can do better in giving reason.
Thanks sent from Google nexus 4 kindly excuse brevity and typos.
[...]
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Dear co-chairs, PLEASE instruct this individual from email and/or addressing me in this list. el Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On Jan 24, 2015, at 13:17, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com> wrote:
sent from Google nexus 4 kindly excuse brevity and typos. On 24 Jan 2015 11:50, "Dr Eberhard W Lisse" <el@lisse.na> wrote:
<snip>
Now you have written what looks like reason below, which makes it a helpful response to the question asked.
Thanks
In any case and notwithstanding that my position on the regional organization(s) has been well documented for well over 8 years, as not all ccTLD Managers are members of a RO, even a legitimate RO can only represent represent its members.
This is consistent with my repeatedly stated position that AC/SOs can not be come "members" as they do not represent all TLDs.
Even to the the most cursory observer it should be obvious that adding unaccountable "members" will not increase Accountability.
el
Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On Jan 24, 2015, at 12:23, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com> wrote:
The question was:
" Could you explain your reasoning so that we can better understand your position? "
And your response is that you "fundamentally" oppose it... Perhaps you can do better in giving reason.
Thanks sent from Google nexus 4 kindly excuse brevity and typos.
[...]
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
At the point in time when rfc1591 documented the use of iso3166 code points (allocated by the iso3166/MA, then the DIN in Munich) as the mechanism that allowed Jon to "farm out work" to "friends of Jon" (shorthand for trusted, competent persons, most of whom did not share offices at ISI's offices on Admiralty Way). I had urged Jon to consider regions rather than "country codes" as the scaling mechanism, as this would have allowed non-states to obtain regional sub-delegations, and prevented pre-mature allocations, some of which were captured, and many of which were poorly operated, and all identified without analysis with the sovereignty interests of most parties assigned iso3166-1 code points. Which is to say I know that Eberhard is making reference to a real issue -- whether a regional aggregation of the present ccTLD manager interests is equivalent, for the purposes of nominal "membership" and the capacities of "members", with the disaggregated interests of the present ccTLD managers. At the point in time where Jon and I discussed X.121 vs iso3166-1 I thought the regional aggregation the better choice. At the point in time where we are now, at least half of the registries associated with iso3166-1 code points are competently operated, and the incompetence case for regions now moot. Of course, the absence of a means of access to delegations from the IANA root zone for minority peoples, first nations, and occupied territories (with the clever exception of the promotion of "ps" as a statistical identifier), and aggregations (again, with the clever exception of "eu" as a currency identifier), are not yet mooted. The subject deserves thoughtful discussion, and the responses to Eberhard's initial note and followup (quoted below), are not that.
In any case and notwithstanding that my position on the regional organization(s) has been well documented for well over 8 years, as not all ccTLD Managers are members of a RO, even a legitimate RO can only represent represent its members.
This is consistent with my repeatedly stated position that AC/SOs can not be come "members" as they do not represent all TLDs.
Even to the the most cursory observer it should be obvious that adding unaccountable "members" will not increase Accountability.
Let's not be uncivil, or add to the list traffic without substance. Eric Brunner-Williams Eugene, Oregon On 1/23/15 10:27 PM, Dr Eberhard W Lisse wrote:
Yes,
I am fundamentally opposed to the Regional Organizations of the ccNSO having anything to do with or say in this.
I have no objections against all (cc)TLD Managers becoming "members".
el
Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On Jan 24, 2015, at 07:56, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>> wrote:
Could you explain your reasoning so that we can better understand your position? Thank you.
Greg Shatan
*Gregory S. Shatan*
Partner|***Abelman Frayne & Schwab*
*666 Third Avenue **|**New York, NY 10017-5621*
*Direct*212-885-9253 *| **Main*212-949-9022
*Fax*212-949-9190 *|* *Cell *917-816-6428
*/gsshatan@lawabel.com <mailto:gsshatan@lawabel.com>/*
*ICANN-related: gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> *
*/www.lawabel.com <http://www.lawabel.com/>/*
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 12:36 AM, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <el@lisse.na <mailto:el@lisse.na>> wrote:
Just to state this early, over my dead boy will the Regional Organizations of the ccNSO have anything to do or say in this.
I would not mind every (cc)TLD Manager.
el
Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
> On Jan 24, 2015, at 01:32, Bruce Tonkin <Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au <mailto:Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au>> wrote: > > Hello Greg, > > >>> Just brainstorming: one possibility may be to create "mirror" or "alter ego" organizations (perhaps corporations, perhaps some other form of organized entity), roughly along the lines of the NRO/ASO relationship (the ASO is an ICANN internal structure, while the NRO is not, yet they are essentially "alter egos"). Thus, each SO and AC could create an entity independent of ICANN, but answerable to that SO and AC. The external entities could then be members of ICANN. > > My understanding also is that to be "members" the organizations would need to be legal entities. In a few of the examples given in this thread, the "coordinating" organizations are not yet established as legal entities. > > For example, the Number Resource Organization ( https://www.nro.net/) is a coordinating body for the 5 Regional Internet Registries (RIRs). These five RIRs are legal entities - so it may make more sense for them to be the "members" of ICANN. > > My understanding is that groups like the Registrar constituency, and the registrar stakeholder group (http://www.icannregistrars.org/ ) are deliberately not established as legal entities, or as trade associations. They are coordinating groups - but any legal agreements etc are always between individual registrars as legal entities and ICANN. Recently a domain name industry association was established - I assume this is a legal entity (http://www.thedna.org/ ). > > Regards, > Bruce Tonkin > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list > Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org <mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org> > https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community _______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org <mailto:Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
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Eric, Thank you for your email, and your further background on the issue that Eberhard referred to. My inquiry to him was merely intended to understand his reasoning and the background that informed it. It's unfortunate that this thread veered off in another direction. Thank you for bringing us back on track. Greg Shatan On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 1:39 PM, Eric Brunner-Williams < ebw@abenaki.wabanaki.net> wrote:
At the point in time when rfc1591 documented the use of iso3166 code points (allocated by the iso3166/MA, then the DIN in Munich) as the mechanism that allowed Jon to "farm out work" to "friends of Jon" (shorthand for trusted, competent persons, most of whom did not share offices at ISI's offices on Admiralty Way). I had urged Jon to consider regions rather than "country codes" as the scaling mechanism, as this would have allowed non-states to obtain regional sub-delegations, and prevented pre-mature allocations, some of which were captured, and many of which were poorly operated, and all identified without analysis with the sovereignty interests of most parties assigned iso3166-1 code points.
Which is to say I know that Eberhard is making reference to a real issue -- whether a regional aggregation of the present ccTLD manager interests is equivalent, for the purposes of nominal "membership" and the capacities of "members", with the disaggregated interests of the present ccTLD managers.
At the point in time where Jon and I discussed X.121 vs iso3166-1 I thought the regional aggregation the better choice. At the point in time where we are now, at least half of the registries associated with iso3166-1 code points are competently operated, and the incompetence case for regions now moot. Of course, the absence of a means of access to delegations from the IANA root zone for minority peoples, first nations, and occupied territories (with the clever exception of the promotion of "ps" as a statistical identifier), and aggregations (again, with the clever exception of "eu" as a currency identifier), are not yet mooted.
The subject deserves thoughtful discussion, and the responses to Eberhard's initial note and followup (quoted below), are not that.
In any case and notwithstanding that my position on the regional organization(s) has been well documented for well over 8 years, as not all ccTLD Managers are members of a RO, even a legitimate RO can only represent represent its members.
This is consistent with my repeatedly stated position that AC/SOs can not be come "members" as they do not represent all TLDs.
Even to the the most cursory observer it should be obvious that adding unaccountable "members" will not increase Accountability.
Let's not be uncivil, or add to the list traffic without substance.
Eric Brunner-Williams Eugene, Oregon
On 1/23/15 10:27 PM, Dr Eberhard W Lisse wrote:
Yes,
I am fundamentally opposed to the Regional Organizations of the ccNSO having anything to do with or say in this.
I have no objections against all (cc)TLD Managers becoming "members".
el
Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On Jan 24, 2015, at 07:56, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote:
Could you explain your reasoning so that we can better understand your position? Thank you.
Greg Shatan
*Gregory S. Shatan *
Partner | *Abelman Frayne & Schwab*
*666 Third Avenue **|** New York, NY 10017-5621*
*Direct* 212-885-9253 *| **Main* 212-949-9022
*Fax* 212-949-9190 *|* *Cell *917-816-6428
*gsshatan@lawabel.com <gsshatan@lawabel.com>*
*ICANN-related: gregshatanipc@gmail.com <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> *
*www.lawabel.com <http://www.lawabel.com/>*
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 12:36 AM, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <el@lisse.na> wrote:
Just to state this early, over my dead boy will the Regional Organizations of the ccNSO have anything to do or say in this.
I would not mind every (cc)TLD Manager.
el
Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On Jan 24, 2015, at 01:32, Bruce Tonkin < Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au> wrote:
Hello Greg,
Just brainstorming: one possibility may be to create "mirror" or "alter ego" organizations (perhaps corporations, perhaps some other form of organized entity), roughly along the lines of the NRO/ASO relationship (the ASO is an ICANN internal structure, while the NRO is not, yet they are essentially "alter egos"). Thus, each SO and AC could create an entity independent of ICANN, but answerable to that SO and AC. The external entities could then be members of ICANN.
My understanding also is that to be "members" the organizations would need to be legal entities. In a few of the examples given in this thread, the "coordinating" organizations are not yet established as legal entities.
For example, the Number Resource Organization ( https://www.nro.net/) is a coordinating body for the 5 Regional Internet Registries (RIRs). These five RIRs are legal entities - so it may make more sense for them to be the "members" of ICANN.
My understanding is that groups like the Registrar constituency, and the registrar stakeholder group (http://www.icannregistrars.org/ ) are deliberately not established as legal entities, or as trade associations. They are coordinating groups - but any legal agreements etc are always between individual registrars as legal entities and ICANN. Recently a domain name industry association was established - I assume this is a legal entity (http://www.thedna.org/ ).
Regards, Bruce Tonkin
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing listAccountability-Cross-Community@icann.orghttps://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
How old are you? Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez +506 8837 7176 (New Number) Enviado desde mi iPhone
El ene 23, 2015, a las 11:36 PM, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <el@lisse.na> escribió:
Just to state this early, over my dead boy will the Regional Organizations of the ccNSO have anything to do or say in this.
I would not mind every (cc)TLD Manager.
el
Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On Jan 24, 2015, at 01:32, Bruce Tonkin <Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au> wrote:
Hello Greg,
Just brainstorming: one possibility may be to create "mirror" or "alter ego" organizations (perhaps corporations, perhaps some other form of organized entity), roughly along the lines of the NRO/ASO relationship (the ASO is an ICANN internal structure, while the NRO is not, yet they are essentially "alter egos"). Thus, each SO and AC could create an entity independent of ICANN, but answerable to that SO and AC. The external entities could then be members of ICANN.
My understanding also is that to be "members" the organizations would need to be legal entities. In a few of the examples given in this thread, the "coordinating" organizations are not yet established as legal entities.
For example, the Number Resource Organization ( https://www.nro.net/) is a coordinating body for the 5 Regional Internet Registries (RIRs). These five RIRs are legal entities - so it may make more sense for them to be the "members" of ICANN.
My understanding is that groups like the Registrar constituency, and the registrar stakeholder group (http://www.icannregistrars.org/ ) are deliberately not established as legal entities, or as trade associations. They are coordinating groups - but any legal agreements etc are always between individual registrars as legal entities and ICANN. Recently a domain name industry association was established - I assume this is a legal entity (http://www.thedna.org/ ).
Regards, Bruce Tonkin
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
I guess EL is 8. -Akinbo. On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 2:47 PM, "Carlos Raúl G." <crg@isoc-cr.org> wrote:
How old are you?
Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez +506 8837 7176 (New Number) Enviado desde mi iPhone
El ene 23, 2015, a las 11:36 PM, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <el@lisse.na> escribió:
Just to state this early, over my dead boy will the Regional Organizations of the ccNSO have anything to do or say in this.
I would not mind every (cc)TLD Manager.
el
Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On Jan 24, 2015, at 01:32, Bruce Tonkin < Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au> wrote:
Hello Greg,
Just brainstorming: one possibility may be to create "mirror" or "alter ego" organizations (perhaps corporations, perhaps some other form of organized entity), roughly along the lines of the NRO/ASO relationship (the ASO is an ICANN internal structure, while the NRO is not, yet they are essentially "alter egos"). Thus, each SO and AC could create an entity independent of ICANN, but answerable to that SO and AC. The external entities could then be members of ICANN.
My understanding also is that to be "members" the organizations would need to be legal entities. In a few of the examples given in this thread, the "coordinating" organizations are not yet established as legal entities.
For example, the Number Resource Organization ( https://www.nro.net/) is a coordinating body for the 5 Regional Internet Registries (RIRs). These five RIRs are legal entities - so it may make more sense for them to be the "members" of ICANN.
My understanding is that groups like the Registrar constituency, and the registrar stakeholder group (http://www.icannregistrars.org/ ) are deliberately not established as legal entities, or as trade associations. They are coordinating groups - but any legal agreements etc are always between individual registrars as legal entities and ICANN. Recently a domain name industry association was established - I assume this is a legal entity (http://www.thedna.org/ ).
Regards, Bruce Tonkin
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
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-- *Evang. Akinbo A. A. Cornerstone, Nigeria.* +2348064464545, +2348089118151 | 2BAC511D. www.akinbo.ng *Member, Executive Board of Directors*, Nigeria Internet Registration Association (NiRA) www.nira.org.ng | akinbo@nira.org.ng <akinbo@yips.org.ng> @niraworks *Acting Chief Operating Officer,* DNS Africa Magazine www.dnsafrica.org | akinbo@dnsafrica.org @dnsafrica *National Convener,* Nigerian Youth Coalition on Internet Governance (NG-YCIG) www.ycig.org.ng <http://www.nira.org.ng/> *President,* Young Internet Professionals (YiPS) www.yips.gnbo.com.ng <http://wwwyips.org.ng/> | akinbo@yips.org.ng *The RedHub.* 12, Afonka Odebunmi Street, Lagos State. http://www.theredhub.org/ *National Focal Point ( Nigeria ) 2009-2011.* Global Youth Coalition on HIV/AIDS (a program of TakingITGlobal) www.youthaidscoalition.org www.takingitglobal.com www.iaids.org About me: http://profiles.tigweb.org/pscornerstone
I know he has a lot to do with small babies yes Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez +506 8837 7176 (New Number) Enviado desde mi iPhone
El ene 24, 2015, a las 10:17 AM, Adebunmi AKINBO <akinbo.adebunmi@gmail.com> escribió:
I guess EL is 8. -Akinbo.
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 2:47 PM, "Carlos Raúl G." <crg@isoc-cr.org> wrote: How old are you?
Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez +506 8837 7176 (New Number) Enviado desde mi iPhone
El ene 23, 2015, a las 11:36 PM, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <el@lisse.na> escribió:
Just to state this early, over my dead boy will the Regional Organizations of the ccNSO have anything to do or say in this.
I would not mind every (cc)TLD Manager.
el
Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On Jan 24, 2015, at 01:32, Bruce Tonkin <Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au> wrote:
Hello Greg,
Just brainstorming: one possibility may be to create "mirror" or "alter ego" organizations (perhaps corporations, perhaps some other form of organized entity), roughly along the lines of the NRO/ASO relationship (the ASO is an ICANN internal structure, while the NRO is not, yet they are essentially "alter egos"). Thus, each SO and AC could create an entity independent of ICANN, but answerable to that SO and AC. The external entities could then be members of ICANN.
My understanding also is that to be "members" the organizations would need to be legal entities. In a few of the examples given in this thread, the "coordinating" organizations are not yet established as legal entities.
For example, the Number Resource Organization ( https://www.nro.net/) is a coordinating body for the 5 Regional Internet Registries (RIRs). These five RIRs are legal entities - so it may make more sense for them to be the "members" of ICANN.
My understanding is that groups like the Registrar constituency, and the registrar stakeholder group (http://www.icannregistrars.org/ ) are deliberately not established as legal entities, or as trade associations. They are coordinating groups - but any legal agreements etc are always between individual registrars as legal entities and ICANN. Recently a domain name industry association was established - I assume this is a legal entity (http://www.thedna.org/ ).
Regards, Bruce Tonkin
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
-- Evang. Akinbo A. A. Cornerstone, Nigeria. +2348064464545, +2348089118151 | 2BAC511D. www.akinbo.ng
Member, Executive Board of Directors, Nigeria Internet Registration Association (NiRA) www.nira.org.ng | akinbo@nira.org.ng @niraworks
Acting Chief Operating Officer, DNS Africa Magazine www.dnsafrica.org | akinbo@dnsafrica.org @dnsafrica
National Convener, Nigerian Youth Coalition on Internet Governance (NG-YCIG) www.ycig.org.ng
President, Young Internet Professionals (YiPS) www.yips.gnbo.com.ng | akinbo@yips.org.ng
The RedHub. 12, Afonka Odebunmi Street, Lagos State. http://www.theredhub.org/
National Focal Point ( Nigeria ) 2009-2011. Global Youth Coalition on HIV/AIDS (a program of TakingITGlobal) www.youthaidscoalition.org www.takingitglobal.com www.iaids.org About me: http://profiles.tigweb.org/pscornerstone
Hi, Chairs, please, can you fix this? While the philosopher in me might argue that we are not experiencing ad hominem attacks (though definitions seem to vary) the counseling psychology masters degree I took does indicate that this is dysfunctional group dynamics. avri
My apologies Will refrain in the future Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez +506 8837 7176 (New Number) Enviado desde mi iPhone
El ene 24, 2015, a las 11:35 AM, Avri Doria <avri@acm.org> escribió:
Hi,
Chairs, please, can you fix this?
While the philosopher in me might argue that we are not experiencing ad hominem attacks (though definitions seem to vary) the counseling psychology masters degree I took does indicate that this is dysfunctional group dynamics.
avri
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Carlos, That is my understanding as well. Also, according to the post that started this latest unfortunate diversion, at least one "dead boy" -- to quote verbatim: "Just to state this early, over my dead boy will the Regional Organizations of the ccNSO have anything to do or say in this." Now, let's get back to work. Perhaps if the good Doctor had answered my request for his reasoning the first time, Seun wouldn't have made his (entirely reasonable) observation that his response didn't provide any reasoning, causing the good Doctor to accuse him of being a troll and attempting to send hm back to Africa (or at least AFRICANN). Perhaps (and this is sheer speculation, of course), the good Doctor's approach to Seun might be due to the fact that Seun is affiliated with AfriNIC? In any event, I apologize for any part I've played in dragging this into the ditch. We can only advance if we treat each other with respect, understanding that everyone here has something to contribute and that nobody's perfect. Greg Shatan *Gregory S. Shatan * Partner | *Abelman Frayne & Schwab* *666 Third Avenue **|** New York, NY 10017-5621* *Direct* 212-885-9253 *| **Main* 212-949-9022 *Fax* 212-949-9190 *|* *Cell *917-816-6428 *gsshatan@lawabel.com <gsshatan@lawabel.com>* *ICANN-related: gregshatanipc@gmail.com <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> * *www.lawabel.com <http://www.lawabel.com/>* On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 11:50 AM, "Carlos Raúl G." <crg@isoc-cr.org> wrote:
I know he has a lot to do with small babies yes
Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez +506 8837 7176 (New Number) Enviado desde mi iPhone
El ene 24, 2015, a las 10:17 AM, Adebunmi AKINBO < akinbo.adebunmi@gmail.com> escribió:
I guess EL is 8. -Akinbo.
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 2:47 PM, "Carlos Raúl G." <crg@isoc-cr.org> wrote:
How old are you?
Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez +506 8837 7176 (New Number) Enviado desde mi iPhone
El ene 23, 2015, a las 11:36 PM, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <el@lisse.na> escribió:
Just to state this early, over my dead boy will the Regional Organizations of the ccNSO have anything to do or say in this.
I would not mind every (cc)TLD Manager.
el
Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On Jan 24, 2015, at 01:32, Bruce Tonkin < Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au> wrote:
Hello Greg,
Just brainstorming: one possibility may be to create "mirror" or "alter ego" organizations (perhaps corporations, perhaps some other form of organized entity), roughly along the lines of the NRO/ASO relationship (the ASO is an ICANN internal structure, while the NRO is not, yet they are essentially "alter egos"). Thus, each SO and AC could create an entity independent of ICANN, but answerable to that SO and AC. The external entities could then be members of ICANN.
My understanding also is that to be "members" the organizations would need to be legal entities. In a few of the examples given in this thread, the "coordinating" organizations are not yet established as legal entities.
For example, the Number Resource Organization ( https://www.nro.net/) is a coordinating body for the 5 Regional Internet Registries (RIRs). These five RIRs are legal entities - so it may make more sense for them to be the "members" of ICANN.
My understanding is that groups like the Registrar constituency, and the registrar stakeholder group (http://www.icannregistrars.org/ ) are deliberately not established as legal entities, or as trade associations. They are coordinating groups - but any legal agreements etc are always between individual registrars as legal entities and ICANN. Recently a domain name industry association was established - I assume this is a legal entity (http://www.thedna.org/ ).
Regards, Bruce Tonkin
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
-- *Evang. Akinbo A. A. Cornerstone, Nigeria.* +2348064464545, +2348089118151 | 2BAC511D. www.akinbo.ng
*Member, Executive Board of Directors*, Nigeria Internet Registration Association (NiRA) www.nira.org.ng | akinbo@nira.org.ng <akinbo@yips.org.ng> @niraworks
*Acting Chief Operating Officer,* DNS Africa Magazine www.dnsafrica.org | akinbo@dnsafrica.org @dnsafrica
*National Convener,* Nigerian Youth Coalition on Internet Governance (NG-YCIG) www.ycig.org.ng <http://www.nira.org.ng/>
*President,* Young Internet Professionals (YiPS) www.yips.gnbo.com.ng <http://wwwyips.org.ng/> | akinbo@yips.org.ng
*The RedHub.* 12, Afonka Odebunmi Street, Lagos State. http://www.theredhub.org/
*National Focal Point ( Nigeria ) 2009-2011.* Global Youth Coalition on HIV/AIDS (a program of TakingITGlobal) www.youthaidscoalition.org www.takingitglobal.com www.iaids.org About me: http://profiles.tigweb.org/pscornerstone
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
I agree Let's go back to work No offense was intended Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez +506 8837 7176 (New Number) Enviado desde mi iPhone
El ene 24, 2015, a las 11:43 AM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> escribió:
Carlos,
That is my understanding as well. Also, according to the post that started this latest unfortunate diversion, at least one "dead boy" -- to quote verbatim:
"Just to state this early, over my dead boy will the Regional Organizations of the ccNSO have anything to do or say in this."
Now, let's get back to work. Perhaps if the good Doctor had answered my request for his reasoning the first time, Seun wouldn't have made his (entirely reasonable) observation that his response didn't provide any reasoning, causing the good Doctor to accuse him of being a troll and attempting to send hm back to Africa (or at least AFRICANN).
Perhaps (and this is sheer speculation, of course), the good Doctor's approach to Seun might be due to the fact that Seun is affiliated with AfriNIC?
In any event, I apologize for any part I've played in dragging this into the ditch.
We can only advance if we treat each other with respect, understanding that everyone here has something to contribute and that nobody's perfect.
Greg Shatan
Gregory S. Shatan Partner | Abelman Frayne & Schwab 666 Third Avenue | New York, NY 10017-5621 Direct 212-885-9253 | Main 212-949-9022 Fax 212-949-9190 | Cell 917-816-6428 gsshatan@lawabel.com ICANN-related: gregshatanipc@gmail.com www.lawabel.com
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 11:50 AM, "Carlos Raúl G." <crg@isoc-cr.org> wrote: I know he has a lot to do with small babies yes
Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez +506 8837 7176 (New Number) Enviado desde mi iPhone
El ene 24, 2015, a las 10:17 AM, Adebunmi AKINBO <akinbo.adebunmi@gmail.com> escribió:
I guess EL is 8. -Akinbo.
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 2:47 PM, "Carlos Raúl G." <crg@isoc-cr.org> wrote: How old are you?
Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez +506 8837 7176 (New Number) Enviado desde mi iPhone
El ene 23, 2015, a las 11:36 PM, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <el@lisse.na> escribió:
Just to state this early, over my dead boy will the Regional Organizations of the ccNSO have anything to do or say in this.
I would not mind every (cc)TLD Manager.
el
Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On Jan 24, 2015, at 01:32, Bruce Tonkin <Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au> wrote:
Hello Greg,
>> Just brainstorming: one possibility may be to create "mirror" or "alter ego" organizations (perhaps corporations, perhaps some other form of organized entity), roughly along the lines of the NRO/ASO relationship (the ASO is an ICANN internal structure, while the NRO is not, yet they are essentially "alter egos"). Thus, each SO and AC could create an entity independent of ICANN, but answerable to that SO and AC. The external entities could then be members of ICANN.
My understanding also is that to be "members" the organizations would need to be legal entities. In a few of the examples given in this thread, the "coordinating" organizations are not yet established as legal entities.
For example, the Number Resource Organization ( https://www.nro.net/) is a coordinating body for the 5 Regional Internet Registries (RIRs). These five RIRs are legal entities - so it may make more sense for them to be the "members" of ICANN.
My understanding is that groups like the Registrar constituency, and the registrar stakeholder group (http://www.icannregistrars.org/ ) are deliberately not established as legal entities, or as trade associations. They are coordinating groups - but any legal agreements etc are always between individual registrars as legal entities and ICANN. Recently a domain name industry association was established - I assume this is a legal entity (http://www.thedna.org/ ).
Regards, Bruce Tonkin
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
-- Evang. Akinbo A. A. Cornerstone, Nigeria. +2348064464545, +2348089118151 | 2BAC511D. www.akinbo.ng
Member, Executive Board of Directors, Nigeria Internet Registration Association (NiRA) www.nira.org.ng | akinbo@nira.org.ng @niraworks
Acting Chief Operating Officer, DNS Africa Magazine www.dnsafrica.org | akinbo@dnsafrica.org @dnsafrica
National Convener, Nigerian Youth Coalition on Internet Governance (NG-YCIG) www.ycig.org.ng
President, Young Internet Professionals (YiPS) www.yips.gnbo.com.ng | akinbo@yips.org.ng
The RedHub. 12, Afonka Odebunmi Street, Lagos State. http://www.theredhub.org/
National Focal Point ( Nigeria ) 2009-2011. Global Youth Coalition on HIV/AIDS (a program of TakingITGlobal) www.youthaidscoalition.org www.takingitglobal.com www.iaids.org About me: http://profiles.tigweb.org/pscornerstone
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Dear Co-chairs, please inform this member of the second oldest profession that I do not accept his "apology". I did not accuse anyone of being a troll, I stated facts. I did not send anyone back to my home continent, I just requested that the troll concerned ply his trade on a particular mailing list to which I subscribe too and on which I merrily enjoy myself in the full knowledge that the list is content-free. I have no idea to what the troll is affiliated, nor do I care. However, AfriNIC is one of the Regional IP Address Registries, which has nothing to do with the Regional Organizations (of the ccNSO) nor with NA-NiC nor myself, who manage a ccTLD, ie Names. I personally doubt that the RIRs would qualify as "members" as they are accountable (if at all) only to their clients (recipients of address blocks) no matter what they call them. All these facts are easily established, especially for someone who holds himself out as knowledgeable on these matters. Not everybody has something to contribute, some steadfastly refuse to inform oneself before "contributing". Hence those "contributions" are mostly worthless and distracting. And then there are the cases of moderate to severe logorrhea, some even in combination. And finally, I do not run around with a pillow case on my head. greetings, el Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On Jan 24, 2015, at 19:43, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote:
[...] Now, let's get back to work. Perhaps if the good Doctor had answered my request for his reasoning the first time, Seun wouldn't have made his (entirely reasonable) observation that his response didn't provide any reasoning, causing the good Doctor to accuse him of being a troll and attempting to send hm back to Africa (or at least AFRICANN).
Perhaps (and this is sheer speculation, of course), the good Doctor's approach to Seun might be due to the fact that Seun is affiliated with AfriNIC?
In any event, I apologize for any part I've played in dragging this into the ditch.
We can only advance if we treat each other with respect, understanding that everyone here has something to contribute and that nobody's perfect.
Greg Shatan
Gregory S. Shatan Partner | Abelman Frayne & Schwab 666 Third Avenue | New York, NY 10017-5621 Direct 212-885-9253 | Main 212-949-9022 Fax 212-949-9190 | Cell 917-816-6428 gsshatan@lawabel.com ICANN-related: gregshatanipc@gmail.com www.lawabel.com
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 11:50 AM, "Carlos Raúl G." <crg@isoc-cr.org> wrote: I know he has a lot to do with small babies yes
Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez +506 8837 7176 (New Number) Enviado desde mi iPhone
El ene 24, 2015, a las 10:17 AM, Adebunmi AKINBO <akinbo.adebunmi@gmail.com> escribió:
I guess EL is 8. -Akinbo.
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 2:47 PM, "Carlos Raúl G." <crg@isoc-cr.org> wrote: How old are you?
Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez +506 8837 7176 (New Number) Enviado desde mi iPhone
El ene 23, 2015, a las 11:36 PM, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <el@lisse.na> escribió:
Just to state this early, over my dead boy will the Regional Organizations of the ccNSO have anything to do or say in this.
I would not mind every (cc)TLD Manager.
el
Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On Jan 24, 2015, at 01:32, Bruce Tonkin <Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au> wrote:
Hello Greg,
>> Just brainstorming: one possibility may be to create "mirror" or "alter ego" organizations (perhaps corporations, perhaps some other form of organized entity), roughly along the lines of the NRO/ASO relationship (the ASO is an ICANN internal structure, while the NRO is not, yet they are essentially "alter egos"). Thus, each SO and AC could create an entity independent of ICANN, but answerable to that SO and AC. The external entities could then be members of ICANN.
My understanding also is that to be "members" the organizations would need to be legal entities. In a few of the examples given in this thread, the "coordinating" organizations are not yet established as legal entities.
For example, the Number Resource Organization ( https://www.nro.net/) is a coordinating body for the 5 Regional Internet Registries (RIRs). These five RIRs are legal entities - so it may make more sense for them to be the "members" of ICANN.
My understanding is that groups like the Registrar constituency, and the registrar stakeholder group (http://www.icannregistrars.org/ ) are deliberately not established as legal entities, or as trade associations. They are coordinating groups - but any legal agreements etc are always between individual registrars as legal entities and ICANN. Recently a domain name industry association was established - I assume this is a legal entity (http://www.thedna.org/ ).
Regards, Bruce Tonkin
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
-- Evang. Akinbo A. A. Cornerstone, Nigeria. +2348064464545, +2348089118151 | 2BAC511D. www.akinbo.ng
Member, Executive Board of Directors, Nigeria Internet Registration Association (NiRA) www.nira.org.ng | akinbo@nira.org.ng @niraworks
Acting Chief Operating Officer, DNS Africa Magazine www.dnsafrica.org | akinbo@dnsafrica.org @dnsafrica
National Convener, Nigerian Youth Coalition on Internet Governance (NG-YCIG) www.ycig.org.ng
President, Young Internet Professionals (YiPS) www.yips.gnbo.com.ng | akinbo@yips.org.ng
The RedHub. 12, Afonka Odebunmi Street, Lagos State. http://www.theredhub.org/
National Focal Point ( Nigeria ) 2009-2011. Global Youth Coalition on HIV/AIDS (a program of TakingITGlobal) www.youthaidscoalition.org www.takingitglobal.com www.iaids.org About me: http://profiles.tigweb.org/pscornerstone
_______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Dear All, I think it is most unfortunate this platform is turning into one for name-callings or denigrating others for lack of a better. That is disrespectful and people must be called to order. Dr. EL is not the only one on the AfrICANN list or I* related lists where Seun happens to be as well. Seun's contributions on these lists and other fora have been at worst constructive and relevant to the subject matter(s). To suggest he is a troll is woefully inaccurate and very unfortunate. If anything at all people on this list can judge for themselves who is being one. Please take it off this list if anyone has issues with the other in order not to drag the good efforts of this group into a quagmire. Cheers, Edwin (also from Africa and on AfrICANN list) On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 3:37 PM, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <el@lisse.na> wrote:
Dear Co-chairs,
please inform this member of the second oldest profession that I do not accept his "apology".
I did not accuse anyone of being a troll, I stated facts.
I did not send anyone back to my home continent, I just requested that the troll concerned ply his trade on a particular mailing list to which I subscribe too and on which I merrily enjoy myself in the full knowledge that the list is content-free.
I have no idea to what the troll is affiliated, nor do I care.
However, AfriNIC is one of the Regional IP Address Registries, which has nothing to do with the Regional Organizations (of the ccNSO) nor with NA-NiC nor myself, who manage a ccTLD, ie Names.
I personally doubt that the RIRs would qualify as "members" as they are accountable (if at all) only to their clients (recipients of address blocks) no matter what they call them.
All these facts are easily established, especially for someone who holds himself out as knowledgeable on these matters.
Not everybody has something to contribute, some steadfastly refuse to inform oneself before "contributing". Hence those "contributions" are mostly worthless and distracting. And then there are the cases of moderate to severe logorrhea, some even in combination.
And finally, I do not run around with a pillow case on my head.
greetings, el
Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On Jan 24, 2015, at 19:43, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> wrote:
[...] Now, let's get back to work. Perhaps if the good Doctor had answered my request for his reasoning the first time, Seun wouldn't have made his (entirely reasonable) observation that his response didn't provide any reasoning, causing the good Doctor to accuse him of being a troll and attempting to send hm back to Africa (or at least AFRICANN).
Perhaps (and this is sheer speculation, of course), the good Doctor's approach to Seun might be due to the fact that Seun is affiliated with AfriNIC?
In any event, I apologize for any part I've played in dragging this into the ditch.
We can only advance if we treat each other with respect, understanding that everyone here has something to contribute and that nobody's perfect.
Greg Shatan
*Gregory S. Shatan *
Partner | *Abelman Frayne & Schwab*
*666 Third Avenue **|** New York, NY 10017-5621*
*Direct* 212-885-9253 *| **Main* 212-949-9022
*Fax* 212-949-9190 *|* *Cell *917-816-6428
*gsshatan@lawabel.com <gsshatan@lawabel.com>*
*ICANN-related: gregshatanipc@gmail.com <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> *
*www.lawabel.com <http://www.lawabel.com/>*
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 11:50 AM, "Carlos Raúl G." <crg@isoc-cr.org> wrote:
I know he has a lot to do with small babies yes
Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez +506 8837 7176 (New Number) Enviado desde mi iPhone
El ene 24, 2015, a las 10:17 AM, Adebunmi AKINBO < akinbo.adebunmi@gmail.com> escribió:
I guess EL is 8. -Akinbo.
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 2:47 PM, "Carlos Raúl G." <crg@isoc-cr.org> wrote:
How old are you?
Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez +506 8837 7176 (New Number) Enviado desde mi iPhone
El ene 23, 2015, a las 11:36 PM, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <el@lisse.na> escribió:
Just to state this early, over my dead boy will the Regional Organizations of the ccNSO have anything to do or say in this.
I would not mind every (cc)TLD Manager.
el
Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On Jan 24, 2015, at 01:32, Bruce Tonkin < Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au> wrote:
Hello Greg,
> Just brainstorming: one possibility may be to create "mirror" or "alter ego" organizations (perhaps corporations, perhaps some other form of organized entity), roughly along the lines of the NRO/ASO relationship (the ASO is an ICANN internal structure, while the NRO is not, yet they are essentially "alter egos"). Thus, each SO and AC could create an entity independent of ICANN, but answerable to that SO and AC. The external entities could then be members of ICANN.
My understanding also is that to be "members" the organizations would need to be legal entities. In a few of the examples given in this thread, the "coordinating" organizations are not yet established as legal entities.
For example, the Number Resource Organization ( https://www.nro.net/) is a coordinating body for the 5 Regional Internet Registries (RIRs). These five RIRs are legal entities - so it may make more sense for them to be the "members" of ICANN.
My understanding is that groups like the Registrar constituency, and the registrar stakeholder group (http://www.icannregistrars.org/ ) are deliberately not established as legal entities, or as trade associations. They are coordinating groups - but any legal agreements etc are always between individual registrars as legal entities and ICANN. Recently a domain name industry association was established - I assume this is a legal entity (http://www.thedna.org/ ).
Regards, Bruce Tonkin
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-- *Evang. Akinbo A. A. Cornerstone, Nigeria.* +2348064464545, +2348089118151 | 2BAC511D. www.akinbo.ng
*Member, Executive Board of Directors*, Nigeria Internet Registration Association (NiRA) www.nira.org.ng | akinbo@nira.org.ng <akinbo@yips.org.ng> @niraworks
*Acting Chief Operating Officer,* DNS Africa Magazine www.dnsafrica.org | akinbo@dnsafrica.org @dnsafrica
*National Convener,* Nigerian Youth Coalition on Internet Governance (NG-YCIG) www.ycig.org.ng <http://www.nira.org.ng/>
*President,* Young Internet Professionals (YiPS) www.yips.gnbo.com.ng <http://wwwyips.org.ng/> | akinbo@yips.org.ng
*The RedHub.* 12, Afonka Odebunmi Street, Lagos State. http://www.theredhub.org/
*National Focal Point ( Nigeria ) 2009-2011.* Global Youth Coalition on HIV/AIDS (a program of TakingITGlobal) www.youthaidscoalition.org www.takingitglobal.com www.iaids.org About me: http://profiles.tigweb.org/pscornerstone
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I rest my case. el -- Sent from Dr Lisse's iPhone 5c
On Jan 25, 2015, at 10:17, Edwin A. Opare <aeopare@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear All,
I think it is most unfortunate this platform is turning into one for name-callings or denigrating others for lack of a better. That is disrespectful and people must be called to order. Dr. EL is not the only one on the AfrICANN list or I* related lists where Seun happens to be as well. Seun's contributions on these lists and other fora have been at worst constructive and relevant to the subject matter(s). To suggest he is a troll is woefully inaccurate and very unfortunate. If anything at all people on this list can judge for themselves who is being one.
Please take it off this list if anyone has issues with the other in order not to drag the good efforts of this group into a quagmire.
Cheers,
Edwin (also from Africa and on AfrICANN list) [...]
s/boy/body/ The iPad's keyboard got the better of me. el Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On Jan 24, 2015, at 07:36, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <el@lisse.na> wrote:
Just to state this early, over my dead boy will the Regional Organizations of the ccNSO have anything to do or say in this.
I would not mind every (cc)TLD Manager.
el
Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On Jan 24, 2015, at 01:32, Bruce Tonkin <Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au> wrote:
Hello Greg,
Just brainstorming: one possibility may be to create "mirror" or "alter ego" organizations (perhaps corporations, perhaps some other form of organized entity), roughly along the lines of the NRO/ASO relationship (the ASO is an ICANN internal structure, while the NRO is not, yet they are essentially "alter egos"). Thus, each SO and AC could create an entity independent of ICANN, but answerable to that SO and AC. The external entities could then be members of ICANN.
My understanding also is that to be "members" the organizations would need to be legal entities. In a few of the examples given in this thread, the "coordinating" organizations are not yet established as legal entities.
For example, the Number Resource Organization ( https://www.nro.net/) is a coordinating body for the 5 Regional Internet Registries (RIRs). These five RIRs are legal entities - so it may make more sense for them to be the "members" of ICANN.
My understanding is that groups like the Registrar constituency, and the registrar stakeholder group (http://www.icannregistrars.org/ ) are deliberately not established as legal entities, or as trade associations. They are coordinating groups - but any legal agreements etc are always between individual registrars as legal entities and ICANN. Recently a domain name industry association was established - I assume this is a legal entity (http://www.thedna.org/ ).
Regards, Bruce Tonkin
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participants (11)
-
"Carlos Raúl G." -
"Carlos Raúl G." -
Adebunmi AKINBO -
Avri Doria -
Bruce Tonkin -
Dr Eberhard W Lisse -
Dr Eberhard W Lisse -
Edwin A. Opare -
Eric Brunner-Williams -
Greg Shatan -
Seun Ojedeji