Co-chair / rapporteur prep and debrief calls
Dear Robin, Thank you for your email. We did not have time to address it during last week's call so, as discussed during the call. You raised the question of transparency of prep calls and debrief calls between co chairs and rapporteurs. We use these coordination calls to establish agendas, discuss outstanding items, define steps and issues (as needed), map out project planning and address any immediate questions or issues Rapporteurs and Cochairs wish to raise. Mindful of the time it might take for recordings and transcripts to be available and of the occasional need for redaction when sensitive matters are raised, e.g. complaints received from group members, we would like to suggest providing the group with a short bullet–point summary for future meetings, as an alternative. We feel a concise approach would enable the group to see what was discussed "at a glance". This alternative could also be expanded into summaries, as deemed needed by the group, with a note that content would be subject to redaction as indicated above. We would welcome the wider group's thoughts on the need to have calls recorded and transcribed. Are there requirements the group considers our calls should have in order to better serve the transparency process? We look forward to reading any additional feedback the group may have on this. Thanks Best regards Thomas, Leon and Mathieu Co-chairs
From: Robin Gross <robin@ipjustice.org <mailto:robin@ipjustice.org>> Date: Friday, April 10, 2015 9:27 PM To: "accountability-cross-community@icann.org <mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org>" <accountability-cross-community@icann.org <mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org>> Cc: "ccwg-accountability5@icann.org <mailto:ccwg-accountability5@icann.org>" <ccwg-accountability5@icann.org <mailto:ccwg-accountability5@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [Acct-Legal] Fwd: teleconf: external legal advisors and CCWG co-chairs
This reminds me of a point I've been meaning to raise. I'd like to request that the meetings of the co-chairs, rapportours, and staff be recorded, transcribed, and posted to the web so we can more easily follow along with the decision making process in the CCWG. Please note that I do not make this request because I suspect any sort of improper behavior at these meetings, but because it would help us to better understand the big picture decisions and issues that we are facing. And since we are an accountability group committed to transparency in our own activities, I would expect there to be no problem with such a request.
Thank you, Robin
On Apr 10, 2015, at 12:15 PM, Greg Shatan wrote:
Counsel:
CCWG co-chairs now request a pre-meeting with counsel (relating to the Tuesday presentation) from 18.30 to 19.00 UTC on Monday, April 13. (This was moved to avoid conflicts.) Please let us know if counsel will be available at that time.
Thanks!
Greg
*Gregory S. Shatan **ï****Abelman Frayne & Schwab* *Partner****| IP | Technology | Media | Internet* *666 Third Avenue | New York, NY 10017-5621* *Direct*212-885-9253*|**Main*212-949-9022 *Fax*212-949-9190*|**Cell*917-816-6428 */gsshatan@lawabel.com <mailto:gsshatan@lawabel.com>/* *ICANN-related:/gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>/* */www.lawabel.com <http://www.lawabel.com/>/*
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: *Adam Peake* <adam.peake@icann.org <mailto:adam.peake@icann.org>> Date: Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 2:54 PM Subject: Re: teleconf: external legal advisors and CCWG co-chairs To: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>> Cc: León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <leonfelipe@sanchez.mx <mailto:leonfelipe@sanchez.mx>>, Alice Jansen <alice.jansen@icann.org <mailto:alice.jansen@icann.org>>
Thanks Greg.
Co-chairs and their request for 30 mins with the lawyers on Monday: 18:30 - 19:00 UTC should also be possible for them, could you ask the lawyers about that time?
Best,
Adam
From: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>> Date: Friday, April 10, 2015 at 1:03 PM
To: Adam Peake <adam.peake@icann.org <mailto:adam.peake@icann.org>> Cc: León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <leonfelipe@sanchez.mx <mailto:leonfelipe@sanchez.mx>>, Alice Jansen <alice.jansen@icann.org <mailto:alice.jansen@icann.org>> Subject: Re: teleconf: external legal advisors and CCWG co-chairs
Request made.
Greg
*Gregory S. Shatan **ï****Abelman Frayne & Schwab* *Partner****| IP | Technology | Media | Internet* *666 Third Avenue | New York, NY 10017-5621* *Direct*212-885-9253 <tel:212-885-9253>*|**Main*212-949-9022 <tel:212-949-9022> *Fax*212-949-9190 <tel:212-949-9190>*|**Cell*917-816-6428 <tel:917-816-6428> */gsshatan@lawabel.com <mailto:gsshatan@lawabel.com>/* *ICANN-related:/gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>/* */www.lawabel.com <http://www.lawabel.com/>/*
On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 12:39 PM, Adam Peake <adam.peake@icann.org <mailto:adam.peake@icann.org>> wrote:
Hi Greg,
Jordan has confirmed he would like external legal advisors to join the WP1 call next Monday: CCWG-Accountability WP1 Meeting #9 – Monday 13 April 2015 from 20:00– 22:00 UTC. (expected for 90 minutes, 2 hours as a placeholder)
Please accept this note as a request for lawyers to join the call. Jordan has distributed an updated document, but I will wait until after today's call before asking you to send to the lawyers.
And could you check if they will be able to send representatives to join a call with the CCWG co-chairs on Monday at 20:00 UTC?
Best,
Adam
From: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>> Date: Friday, April 10, 2015 at 11:56 AM To: Adam Peake <adam.peake@icann.org <mailto:adam.peake@icann.org>> Cc: León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <leonfelipe@sanchez.mx <mailto:leonfelipe@sanchez.mx>>, Alice Jansen <alice.jansen@icann.org <mailto:alice.jansen@icann.org>> Subject: Re: teleconf: external legal advisors and CCWG co-chairs
Adam,
I'm happy to pass this on. However I note that this overlaps with the CWG-IANA meeting of 19:00-21:00, which may be a problem for Sidley (if they are being called on to be at that meeting) and the 20:00-22:00 WP1 meeting, which may be a problem for both firms. That said, it may be possible for each firm to use their teams to be in both places at once. However, if there is a time that is not so burdened (on my calendar, 17.00-19.00 UTC on Monday is "free."), it might be better to suggest that. To that end, would it make sense to suggest 19:30 UTC instead of 20:00?
Greg
*Gregory S. Shatan **ï****Abelman Frayne & Schwab* *Partner****| IP | Technology | Media | Internet* *666 Third Avenue | New York, NY 10017-5621* *Direct*212-885-9253 <tel:212-885-9253>*|**Main*212-949-9022 <tel:212-949-9022> *Fax*212-949-9190 <tel:212-949-9190>*|**Cell*917-816-6428 <tel:917-816-6428> */gsshatan@lawabel.com <mailto:gsshatan@lawabel.com>/* *ICANN-related:/gregshatanipc@gmail.com <mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>/* */www.lawabel.com <http://www.lawabel.com/>/*
On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 11:25 AM, Adam Peake <adam.peake@icann.org <mailto:adam.peake@icann.org>> wrote:
Dear Greg, Leon:
As you know, the co-chairs are adjusting the agenda of Tuesday¹s CCWG call (Tuesday 14 April 2015 from 12:00 14:00 UTC) to allow external legal counsel to provide an overview to the group. Details promised soon.
In preparation for this, the co-chairs would like to ask representatives of both firms to join a call with them at 20.00 UTC on Monday 13 April. Call duration 30 minutes. The co-chairs can also provide a summary of the CCWG report (we shared the table of contents) during this call.
Could you pass this request to the lawyers and ask them if members of their teams will be able to join, and if OK, who we should send calendar invites to.
Many thanks,
Adam
<smime.p7s>_______________________________________________ Ccwg-accountability5 mailing list Ccwg-accountability5@icann.org <mailto:Ccwg-accountability5@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-accountability5
-- ***************************** Mathieu WEILL AFNIC - directeur général Tél: +33 1 39 30 83 06 mathieu.weill@afnic.fr Twitter : @mathieuweill *****************************
Co-chairs, The approach you suggest, bullet points that could be expanded into summaries as requested by the group, seems a sensible approach to me. Best regards, David McAuley From: accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org [mailto:accountability-cross-community-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Mathieu Weill Sent: Friday, April 17, 2015 12:52 PM To: accountability-cross-community@icann.org Subject: [CCWG-ACCT] Co-chair / rapporteur prep and debrief calls Dear Robin, Thank you for your email. We did not have time to address it during last week's call so, as discussed during the call. You raised the question of transparency of prep calls and debrief calls between co chairs and rapporteurs. We use these coordination calls to establish agendas, discuss outstanding items, define steps and issues (as needed), map out project planning and address any immediate questions or issues Rapporteurs and Cochairs wish to raise. Mindful of the time it might take for recordings and transcripts to be available and of the occasional need for redaction when sensitive matters are raised, e.g. complaints received from group members, we would like to suggest providing the group with a short bullet–point summary for future meetings, as an alternative. We feel a concise approach would enable the group to see what was discussed "at a glance". This alternative could also be expanded into summaries, as deemed needed by the group, with a note that content would be subject to redaction as indicated above. We would welcome the wider group's thoughts on the need to have calls recorded and transcribed. Are there requirements the group considers our calls should have in order to better serve the transparency process? We look forward to reading any additional feedback the group may have on this. Thanks Best regards Thomas, Leon and Mathieu Co-chairs From: Robin Gross <robin@ipjustice.org<mailto:robin@ipjustice.org>> Date: Friday, April 10, 2015 9:27 PM To: "accountability-cross-community@icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org>" <accountability-cross-community@icann.org<mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org>> Cc: "ccwg-accountability5@icann.org<mailto:ccwg-accountability5@icann.org>" <ccwg-accountability5@icann.org<mailto:ccwg-accountability5@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [Acct-Legal] Fwd: teleconf: external legal advisors and CCWG co-chairs This reminds me of a point I've been meaning to raise. I'd like to request that the meetings of the co-chairs, rapportours, and staff be recorded, transcribed, and posted to the web so we can more easily follow along with the decision making process in the CCWG. Please note that I do not make this request because I suspect any sort of improper behavior at these meetings, but because it would help us to better understand the big picture decisions and issues that we are facing. And since we are an accountability group committed to transparency in our own activities, I would expect there to be no problem with such a request. Thank you, Robin On Apr 10, 2015, at 12:15 PM, Greg Shatan wrote: Counsel: CCWG co-chairs now request a pre-meeting with counsel (relating to the Tuesday presentation) from 18.30 to 19.00 UTC on Monday, April 13. (This was moved to avoid conflicts.) Please let us know if counsel will be available at that time. Thanks! Greg Gregory S. Shatan ï Abelman Frayne & Schwab Partner | IP | Technology | Media | Internet 666 Third Avenue | New York, NY 10017-5621 Direct 212-885-9253 | Main 212-949-9022 Fax 212-949-9190 | Cell 917-816-6428 gsshatan@lawabel.com<mailto:gsshatan@lawabel.com> ICANN-related: gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> www.lawabel.com<http://www.lawabel.com/> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Adam Peake <adam.peake@icann.org<mailto:adam.peake@icann.org>> Date: Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 2:54 PM Subject: Re: teleconf: external legal advisors and CCWG co-chairs To: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>> Cc: León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <leonfelipe@sanchez.mx<mailto:leonfelipe@sanchez.mx>>, Alice Jansen <alice.jansen@icann.org<mailto:alice.jansen@icann.org>> Thanks Greg. Co-chairs and their request for 30 mins with the lawyers on Monday: 18:30 - 19:00 UTC should also be possible for them, could you ask the lawyers about that time? Best, Adam From: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>> Date: Friday, April 10, 2015 at 1:03 PM To: Adam Peake <adam.peake@icann.org<mailto:adam.peake@icann.org>> Cc: León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <leonfelipe@sanchez.mx<mailto:leonfelipe@sanchez.mx>>, Alice Jansen <alice.jansen@icann.org<mailto:alice.jansen@icann.org>> Subject: Re: teleconf: external legal advisors and CCWG co-chairs Request made. Greg Gregory S. Shatan ï Abelman Frayne & Schwab Partner | IP | Technology | Media | Internet 666 Third Avenue | New York, NY 10017-5621 Direct 212-885-9253<tel:212-885-9253> | Main 212-949-9022<tel:212-949-9022> Fax 212-949-9190<tel:212-949-9190> | Cell 917-816-6428<tel:917-816-6428> gsshatan@lawabel.com<mailto:gsshatan@lawabel.com> ICANN-related: gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> www.lawabel.com<http://www.lawabel.com/> On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 12:39 PM, Adam Peake <adam.peake@icann.org<mailto:adam.peake@icann.org>> wrote: Hi Greg, Jordan has confirmed he would like external legal advisors to join the WP1 call next Monday: CCWG-Accountability WP1 Meeting #9 – Monday 13 April 2015 from 20:00– 22:00 UTC. (expected for 90 minutes, 2 hours as a placeholder) Please accept this note as a request for lawyers to join the call. Jordan has distributed an updated document, but I will wait until after today's call before asking you to send to the lawyers. And could you check if they will be able to send representatives to join a call with the CCWG co-chairs on Monday at 20:00 UTC? Best, Adam From: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com>> Date: Friday, April 10, 2015 at 11:56 AM To: Adam Peake <adam.peake@icann.org<mailto:adam.peake@icann.org>> Cc: León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <leonfelipe@sanchez.mx<mailto:leonfelipe@sanchez.mx>>, Alice Jansen <alice.jansen@icann.org<mailto:alice.jansen@icann.org>> Subject: Re: teleconf: external legal advisors and CCWG co-chairs Adam, I'm happy to pass this on. However I note that this overlaps with the CWG-IANA meeting of 19:00-21:00, which may be a problem for Sidley (if they are being called on to be at that meeting) and the 20:00-22:00 WP1 meeting, which may be a problem for both firms. That said, it may be possible for each firm to use their teams to be in both places at once. However, if there is a time that is not so burdened (on my calendar, 17.00-19.00 UTC on Monday is "free."), it might be better to suggest that. To that end, would it make sense to suggest 19:30 UTC instead of 20:00? Greg Gregory S. Shatan ï Abelman Frayne & Schwab Partner | IP | Technology | Media | Internet 666 Third Avenue | New York, NY 10017-5621 Direct 212-885-9253<tel:212-885-9253> | Main 212-949-9022<tel:212-949-9022> Fax 212-949-9190<tel:212-949-9190> | Cell 917-816-6428<tel:917-816-6428> gsshatan@lawabel.com<mailto:gsshatan@lawabel.com> ICANN-related: gregshatanipc@gmail.com<mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com> www.lawabel.com<http://www.lawabel.com/> On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 11:25 AM, Adam Peake <adam.peake@icann.org<mailto:adam.peake@icann.org>> wrote: Dear Greg, Leon: As you know, the co-chairs are adjusting the agenda of Tuesday¹s CCWG call (Tuesday 14 April 2015 from 12:00 14:00 UTC) to allow external legal counsel to provide an overview to the group. Details promised soon. In preparation for this, the co-chairs would like to ask representatives of both firms to join a call with them at 20.00 UTC on Monday 13 April. Call duration 30 minutes. The co-chairs can also provide a summary of the CCWG report (we shared the table of contents) during this call. Could you pass this request to the lawyers and ask them if members of their teams will be able to join, and if OK, who we should send calendar invites to. Many thanks, Adam <smime.p7s>_______________________________________________ Ccwg-accountability5 mailing list Ccwg-accountability5@icann.org<mailto:Ccwg-accountability5@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-accountability5 -- ***************************** Mathieu WEILL AFNIC - directeur général Tél: +33 1 39 30 83 06 mathieu.weill@afnic.fr<mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr> Twitter : @mathieuweill *****************************
Dear Co-Chairs, full and absolute transparency is required, ie recording and transcription, though I think each particpant should "authorize" by way of redlining until an accurate reccord is agreed upon by all participants. Complaint belong out in the open, and in any case you have no mandate to deal with complaints anyway. greetings, el -- Sent from Dr Lisse's iPhone 6
On Apr 17, 2015, at 17:52, Mathieu Weill <mathieu.weill@afnic.fr> wrote:
Dear Robin,
Thank you for your email. We did not have time to address it during last week's call so, as discussed during the call.
You raised the question of transparency of prep calls and debrief calls between co chairs and rapporteurs.
We use these coordination calls to establish agendas, discuss outstanding items, define steps and issues (as needed), map out project planning and address any immediate questions or issues Rapporteurs and Cochairs wish to raise.
Mindful of the time it might take for recordings and transcripts to be available and of the occasional need for redaction when sensitive matters are raised, e.g. complaints received from group members, we would like to suggest providing the group with a short bullet–point summary for future meetings, as an alternative. We feel a concise approach would enable the group to see what was discussed "at a glance". This alternative could also be expanded into summaries, as deemed needed by the group, with a note that content would be subject to redaction as indicated above.
We would welcome the wider group's thoughts on the need to have calls recorded and transcribed. Are there requirements the group considers our calls should have in order to better serve the transparency process?
We look forward to reading any additional feedback the group may have on this. Thanks Best regards Thomas, Leon and Mathieu Co-chairs
From: Robin Gross <robin@ipjustice.org> Date: Friday, April 10, 2015 9:27 PM To: "accountability-cross-community@icann.org" <accountability-cross-community@icann.org> Cc: "ccwg-accountability5@icann.org" <ccwg-accountability5@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Acct-Legal] Fwd: teleconf: external legal advisors and CCWG co-chairs
This reminds me of a point I've been meaning to raise. I'd like to request that the meetings of the co-chairs, rapportours, and staff be recorded, transcribed, and posted to the web so we can more easily follow along with the decision making process in the CCWG. Please note that I do not make this request because I suspect any sort of improper behavior at these meetings, but because it would help us to better understand the big picture decisions and issues that we are facing. And since we are an accountability group committed to transparency in our own activities, I would expect there to be no problem with such a request.
Thank you, Robin
On Apr 10, 2015, at 12:15 PM, Greg Shatan wrote:
Counsel:
CCWG co-chairs now request a pre-meeting with counsel (relating to the Tuesday presentation) from 18.30 to 19.00 UTC on Monday, April 13. (This was moved to avoid conflicts.) Please let us know if counsel will be available at that time.
Thanks!
Greg
Gregory S. Shatan ï Abelman Frayne & Schwab Partner | IP | Technology | Media | Internet 666 Third Avenue | New York, NY 10017-5621 Direct 212-885-9253 | Main 212-949-9022 Fax 212-949-9190 | Cell 917-816-6428 gsshatan@lawabel.com ICANN-related: gregshatanipc@gmail.com www.lawabel.com
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Adam Peake <adam.peake@icann.org> Date: Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 2:54 PM Subject: Re: teleconf: external legal advisors and CCWG co-chairs To: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> Cc: León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <leonfelipe@sanchez.mx>, Alice Jansen <alice.jansen@icann.org>
Thanks Greg.
Co-chairs and their request for 30 mins with the lawyers on Monday: 18:30 - 19:00 UTC should also be possible for them, could you ask the lawyers about that time?
Best,
Adam
From: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> Date: Friday, April 10, 2015 at 1:03 PM
To: Adam Peake <adam.peake@icann.org> Cc: León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <leonfelipe@sanchez.mx>, Alice Jansen <alice.jansen@icann.org> Subject: Re: teleconf: external legal advisors and CCWG co-chairs
Request made.
Greg
Gregory S. Shatan ï Abelman Frayne & Schwab Partner | IP | Technology | Media | Internet 666 Third Avenue | New York, NY 10017-5621 Direct 212-885-9253 | Main 212-949-9022 Fax 212-949-9190 | Cell 917-816-6428 gsshatan@lawabel.com ICANN-related: gregshatanipc@gmail.com www.lawabel.com
On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 12:39 PM, Adam Peake <adam.peake@icann.org> wrote: Hi Greg,
Jordan has confirmed he would like external legal advisors to join the WP1 call next Monday: CCWG-Accountability WP1 Meeting #9 – Monday 13 April 2015 from 20:00– 22:00 UTC. (expected for 90 minutes, 2 hours as a placeholder)
Please accept this note as a request for lawyers to join the call. Jordan has distributed an updated document, but I will wait until after today's call before asking you to send to the lawyers.
And could you check if they will be able to send representatives to join a call with the CCWG co-chairs on Monday at 20:00 UTC?
Best,
Adam
From: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> Date: Friday, April 10, 2015 at 11:56 AM To: Adam Peake <adam.peake@icann.org> Cc: León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <leonfelipe@sanchez.mx>, Alice Jansen <alice.jansen@icann.org> Subject: Re: teleconf: external legal advisors and CCWG co-chairs
Adam,
I'm happy to pass this on. However I note that this overlaps with the CWG-IANA meeting of 19:00-21:00, which may be a problem for Sidley (if they are being called on to be at that meeting) and the 20:00-22:00 WP1 meeting, which may be a problem for both firms. That said, it may be possible for each firm to use their teams to be in both places at once. However, if there is a time that is not so burdened (on my calendar, 17.00-19.00 UTC on Monday is "free."), it might be better to suggest that. To that end, would it make sense to suggest 19:30 UTC instead of 20:00?
Greg
Gregory S. Shatan ï Abelman Frayne & Schwab Partner | IP | Technology | Media | Internet 666 Third Avenue | New York, NY 10017-5621 Direct 212-885-9253 | Main 212-949-9022 Fax 212-949-9190 | Cell 917-816-6428 gsshatan@lawabel.com ICANN-related: gregshatanipc@gmail.com www.lawabel.com
On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 11:25 AM, Adam Peake <adam.peake@icann.org> wrote: Dear Greg, Leon:
As you know, the co-chairs are adjusting the agenda of Tuesday¹s CCWG call (Tuesday 14 April 2015 from 12:00 14:00 UTC) to allow external legal counsel to provide an overview to the group. Details promised soon.
In preparation for this, the co-chairs would like to ask representatives of both firms to join a call with them at 20.00 UTC on Monday 13 April. Call duration 30 minutes. The co-chairs can also provide a summary of the CCWG report (we shared the table of contents) during this call.
Could you pass this request to the lawyers and ask them if members of their teams will be able to join, and if OK, who we should send calendar invites to.
Many thanks,
Adam
<smime.p7s>_______________________________________________ Ccwg-accountability5 mailing list Ccwg-accountability5@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-accountability5
-- ***************************** Mathieu WEILL AFNIC - directeur général Tél: +33 1 39 30 83 06 mathieu.weill@afnic.fr Twitter : @mathieuweill ***************************** _______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Thanks for getting back on this request, Mathieu. However, given the great importance of our work and the pace at which we are working, it is best to be as transparent to the outside world as possible. Therefore I would not be satisfied with only summaries of the discussions. We need the actual transcripts / recordings on these discussions to fully understand the pressures we are working under the concerns that are taking precedence in our agenda and timeline settings. Any parts of a conversation that truly need to be "off the record" for legitimate, documented purposes can be - just as they are in the legal sub-team mtg by stopping the recording at those times. But we say on the record "we are stopping the recording now" which is important for transparency. So I think these high-level discussions deserve at least the same level of transparency that go into the main and sub-team (including legal sub-team) discussions on our work. A heightened level of transparency can only increase the legitimacy of our work, and we are the "accountability" group, so if we won't be transparent in our discussions, how can we ask anyone else to? Thanks, Robin On Apr 17, 2015, at 9:52 AM, Mathieu Weill wrote:
Dear Robin,
Thank you for your email. We did not have time to address it during last week's call so, as discussed during the call.
You raised the question of transparency of prep calls and debrief calls between co chairs and rapporteurs.
We use these coordination calls to establish agendas, discuss outstanding items, define steps and issues (as needed), map out project planning and address any immediate questions or issues Rapporteurs and Cochairs wish to raise.
Mindful of the time it might take for recordings and transcripts to be available and of the occasional need for redaction when sensitive matters are raised, e.g. complaints received from group members, we would like to suggest providing the group with a short bullet–point summary for future meetings, as an alternative. We feel a concise approach would enable the group to see what was discussed "at a glance". This alternative could also be expanded into summaries, as deemed needed by the group, with a note that content would be subject to redaction as indicated above.
We would welcome the wider group's thoughts on the need to have calls recorded and transcribed. Are there requirements the group considers our calls should have in order to better serve the transparency process?
We look forward to reading any additional feedback the group may have on this. Thanks Best regards Thomas, Leon and Mathieu Co-chairs
From: Robin Gross <robin@ipjustice.org> Date: Friday, April 10, 2015 9:27 PM To: "accountability-cross-community@icann.org" <accountability-cross-community@icann.org> Cc: "ccwg-accountability5@icann.org" <ccwg-accountability5@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Acct-Legal] Fwd: teleconf: external legal advisors and CCWG co-chairs
This reminds me of a point I've been meaning to raise. I'd like to request that the meetings of the co-chairs, rapportours, and staff be recorded, transcribed, and posted to the web so we can more easily follow along with the decision making process in the CCWG. Please note that I do not make this request because I suspect any sort of improper behavior at these meetings, but because it would help us to better understand the big picture decisions and issues that we are facing. And since we are an accountability group committed to transparency in our own activities, I would expect there to be no problem with such a request.
Thank you, Robin
On Apr 10, 2015, at 12:15 PM, Greg Shatan wrote:
Counsel:
CCWG co-chairs now request a pre-meeting with counsel (relating to the Tuesday presentation) from 18.30 to 19.00 UTC on Monday, April 13. (This was moved to avoid conflicts.) Please let us know if counsel will be available at that time.
Thanks!
Greg
Gregory S. Shatan ï Abelman Frayne & Schwab Partner | IP | Technology | Media | Internet 666 Third Avenue | New York, NY 10017-5621 Direct 212-885-9253 | Main 212-949-9022 Fax 212-949-9190 | Cell 917-816-6428 gsshatan@lawabel.com ICANN-related: gregshatanipc@gmail.com www.lawabel.com
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Adam Peake <adam.peake@icann.org> Date: Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 2:54 PM Subject: Re: teleconf: external legal advisors and CCWG co-chairs To: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> Cc: León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <leonfelipe@sanchez.mx>, Alice Jansen <alice.jansen@icann.org>
Thanks Greg.
Co-chairs and their request for 30 mins with the lawyers on Monday: 18:30 - 19:00 UTC should also be possible for them, could you ask the lawyers about that time?
Best,
Adam
From: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> Date: Friday, April 10, 2015 at 1:03 PM
To: Adam Peake <adam.peake@icann.org> Cc: León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <leonfelipe@sanchez.mx>, Alice Jansen <alice.jansen@icann.org> Subject: Re: teleconf: external legal advisors and CCWG co-chairs
Request made.
Greg
Gregory S. Shatan ï Abelman Frayne & Schwab Partner | IP | Technology | Media | Internet 666 Third Avenue | New York, NY 10017-5621 Direct 212-885-9253 | Main 212-949-9022 Fax 212-949-9190 | Cell 917-816-6428 gsshatan@lawabel.com ICANN-related: gregshatanipc@gmail.com www.lawabel.com
On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 12:39 PM, Adam Peake <adam.peake@icann.org> wrote: Hi Greg,
Jordan has confirmed he would like external legal advisors to join the WP1 call next Monday: CCWG-Accountability WP1 Meeting #9 – Monday 13 April 2015 from 20:00– 22:00 UTC. (expected for 90 minutes, 2 hours as a placeholder)
Please accept this note as a request for lawyers to join the call. Jordan has distributed an updated document, but I will wait until after today's call before asking you to send to the lawyers.
And could you check if they will be able to send representatives to join a call with the CCWG co-chairs on Monday at 20:00 UTC?
Best,
Adam
From: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> Date: Friday, April 10, 2015 at 11:56 AM To: Adam Peake <adam.peake@icann.org> Cc: León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <leonfelipe@sanchez.mx>, Alice Jansen <alice.jansen@icann.org> Subject: Re: teleconf: external legal advisors and CCWG co-chairs
Adam,
I'm happy to pass this on. However I note that this overlaps with the CWG-IANA meeting of 19:00-21:00, which may be a problem for Sidley (if they are being called on to be at that meeting) and the 20:00-22:00 WP1 meeting, which may be a problem for both firms. That said, it may be possible for each firm to use their teams to be in both places at once. However, if there is a time that is not so burdened (on my calendar, 17.00-19.00 UTC on Monday is "free."), it might be better to suggest that. To that end, would it make sense to suggest 19:30 UTC instead of 20:00?
Greg
Gregory S. Shatan ï Abelman Frayne & Schwab Partner | IP | Technology | Media | Internet 666 Third Avenue | New York, NY 10017-5621 Direct 212-885-9253 | Main 212-949-9022 Fax 212-949-9190 | Cell 917-816-6428 gsshatan@lawabel.com ICANN-related: gregshatanipc@gmail.com www.lawabel.com
On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 11:25 AM, Adam Peake <adam.peake@icann.org> wrote: Dear Greg, Leon:
As you know, the co-chairs are adjusting the agenda of Tuesday¹s CCWG call (Tuesday 14 April 2015 from 12:00 14:00 UTC) to allow external legal counsel to provide an overview to the group. Details promised soon.
In preparation for this, the co-chairs would like to ask representatives of both firms to join a call with them at 20.00 UTC on Monday 13 April. Call duration 30 minutes. The co-chairs can also provide a summary of the CCWG report (we shared the table of contents) during this call.
Could you pass this request to the lawyers and ask them if members of their teams will be able to join, and if OK, who we should send calendar invites to.
Many thanks,
Adam
<smime.p7s>_______________________________________________ Ccwg-accountability5 mailing list Ccwg-accountability5@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-accountability5
-- ***************************** Mathieu WEILL AFNIC - directeur général Tél: +33 1 39 30 83 06 mathieu.weill@afnic.fr Twitter : @mathieuweill ***************************** _______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
Dear Co-Chairs, I agree with Robin, it should be obvious that we should be as transparent as possible. The argument that it may take long is either silly, or obstructionist. el -- Sent from Dr Lisse's iPad mini
On Apr 21, 2015, at 18:56, Robin Gross <robin@ipjustice.org> wrote:
Thanks for getting back on this request, Mathieu. However, given the great importance of our work and the pace at which we are working, it is best to be as transparent to the outside world as possible. Therefore I would not be satisfied with only summaries of the discussions. We need the actual transcripts / recordings on these discussions to fully understand the pressures we are working under the concerns that are taking precedence in our agenda and timeline settings. Any parts of a conversation that truly need to be "off the record" for legitimate, documented purposes can be - just as they are in the legal sub-team mtg by stopping the recording at those times. But we say on the record "we are stopping the recording now" which is important for transparency. So I think these high-level discussions deserve at least the same level of transparency that go into the main and sub-team (including legal sub-team) discussions on our work. A heightened level of transparency can only increase the legitimacy of our work, and we are the "accountability" group, so if we won't be transparent in our discussions, how can we ask anyone else to?
Thanks, Robin
On Apr 17, 2015, at 9:52 AM, Mathieu Weill wrote:
Dear Robin,
Thank you for your email. We did not have time to address it during last week's call so, as discussed during the call.
You raised the question of transparency of prep calls and debrief calls between co chairs and rapporteurs.
We use these coordination calls to establish agendas, discuss outstanding items, define steps and issues (as needed), map out project planning and address any immediate questions or issues Rapporteurs and Cochairs wish to raise.
Mindful of the time it might take for recordings and transcripts to be available and of the occasional need for redaction when sensitive matters are raised, e.g. complaints received from group members, we would like to suggest providing the group with a short bullet–point summary for future meetings, as an alternative. We feel a concise approach would enable the group to see what was discussed "at a glance". This alternative could also be expanded into summaries, as deemed needed by the group, with a note that content would be subject to redaction as indicated above.
We would welcome the wider group's thoughts on the need to have calls recorded and transcribed. Are there requirements the group considers our calls should have in order to better serve the transparency process?
We look forward to reading any additional feedback the group may have on this. Thanks Best regards Thomas, Leon and Mathieu Co-chairs
From: Robin Gross <robin@ipjustice.org> Date: Friday, April 10, 2015 9:27 PM To: "accountability-cross-community@icann.org" <accountability-cross-community@icann.org> Cc: "ccwg-accountability5@icann.org" <ccwg-accountability5@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Acct-Legal] Fwd: teleconf: external legal advisors and CCWG co-chairs
This reminds me of a point I've been meaning to raise. I'd like to request that the meetings of the co-chairs, rapportours, and staff be recorded, transcribed, and posted to the web so we can more easily follow along with the decision making process in the CCWG. Please note that I do not make this request because I suspect any sort of improper behavior at these meetings, but because it would help us to better understand the big picture decisions and issues that we are facing. And since we are an accountability group committed to transparency in our own activities, I would expect there to be no problem with such a request.
Thank you, Robin
On Apr 10, 2015, at 12:15 PM, Greg Shatan wrote:
Counsel:
CCWG co-chairs now request a pre-meeting with counsel (relating to the Tuesday presentation) from 18.30 to 19.00 UTC on Monday, April 13. (This was moved to avoid conflicts.) Please let us know if counsel will be available at that time.
Thanks!
Greg
Gregory S. Shatan ï Abelman Frayne & Schwab Partner | IP | Technology | Media | Internet 666 Third Avenue | New York, NY 10017-5621 Direct 212-885-9253 | Main 212-949-9022 Fax 212-949-9190 | Cell 917-816-6428 gsshatan@lawabel.com ICANN-related: gregshatanipc@gmail.com www.lawabel.com
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Adam Peake <adam.peake@icann.org> Date: Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 2:54 PM Subject: Re: teleconf: external legal advisors and CCWG co-chairs To: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> Cc: León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <leonfelipe@sanchez.mx>, Alice Jansen <alice.jansen@icann.org>
Thanks Greg.
Co-chairs and their request for 30 mins with the lawyers on Monday: 18:30 - 19:00 UTC should also be possible for them, could you ask the lawyers about that time?
Best,
Adam
From: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> Date: Friday, April 10, 2015 at 1:03 PM
To: Adam Peake <adam.peake@icann.org> Cc: León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <leonfelipe@sanchez.mx>, Alice Jansen <alice.jansen@icann.org> Subject: Re: teleconf: external legal advisors and CCWG co-chairs
Request made.
Greg
Gregory S. Shatan ï Abelman Frayne & Schwab Partner | IP | Technology | Media | Internet 666 Third Avenue | New York, NY 10017-5621 Direct 212-885-9253 | Main 212-949-9022 Fax 212-949-9190 | Cell 917-816-6428 gsshatan@lawabel.com ICANN-related: gregshatanipc@gmail.com www.lawabel.com
On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 12:39 PM, Adam Peake <adam.peake@icann.org> wrote: Hi Greg,
Jordan has confirmed he would like external legal advisors to join the WP1 call next Monday: CCWG-Accountability WP1 Meeting #9 – Monday 13 April 2015 from 20:00– 22:00 UTC. (expected for 90 minutes, 2 hours as a placeholder)
Please accept this note as a request for lawyers to join the call. Jordan has distributed an updated document, but I will wait until after today's call before asking you to send to the lawyers.
And could you check if they will be able to send representatives to join a call with the CCWG co-chairs on Monday at 20:00 UTC?
Best,
Adam
From: Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc@gmail.com> Date: Friday, April 10, 2015 at 11:56 AM To: Adam Peake <adam.peake@icann.org> Cc: León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <leonfelipe@sanchez.mx>, Alice Jansen <alice.jansen@icann.org> Subject: Re: teleconf: external legal advisors and CCWG co-chairs
Adam,
I'm happy to pass this on. However I note that this overlaps with the CWG-IANA meeting of 19:00-21:00, which may be a problem for Sidley (if they are being called on to be at that meeting) and the 20:00-22:00 WP1 meeting, which may be a problem for both firms. That said, it may be possible for each firm to use their teams to be in both places at once. However, if there is a time that is not so burdened (on my calendar, 17.00-19.00 UTC on Monday is "free."), it might be better to suggest that. To that end, would it make sense to suggest 19:30 UTC instead of 20:00?
Greg
Gregory S. Shatan ï Abelman Frayne & Schwab Partner | IP | Technology | Media | Internet 666 Third Avenue | New York, NY 10017-5621 Direct 212-885-9253 | Main 212-949-9022 Fax 212-949-9190 | Cell 917-816-6428 gsshatan@lawabel.com ICANN-related: gregshatanipc@gmail.com www.lawabel.com
On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 11:25 AM, Adam Peake <adam.peake@icann.org> wrote: Dear Greg, Leon:
As you know, the co-chairs are adjusting the agenda of Tuesday¹s CCWG call (Tuesday 14 April 2015 from 12:00 14:00 UTC) to allow external legal counsel to provide an overview to the group. Details promised soon.
In preparation for this, the co-chairs would like to ask representatives of both firms to join a call with them at 20.00 UTC on Monday 13 April. Call duration 30 minutes. The co-chairs can also provide a summary of the CCWG report (we shared the table of contents) during this call.
Could you pass this request to the lawyers and ask them if members of their teams will be able to join, and if OK, who we should send calendar invites to.
Many thanks,
Adam
<smime.p7s>_______________________________________________ Ccwg-accountability5 mailing list Ccwg-accountability5@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-accountability5
-- ***************************** Mathieu WEILL AFNIC - directeur général Tél: +33 1 39 30 83 06 mathieu.weill@afnic.fr Twitter : @mathieuweill ***************************** _______________________________________________ Accountability-Cross-Community mailing list Accountability-Cross-Community@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/accountability-cross-community
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participants (4)
-
Dr Eberhard W Lisse -
Mathieu Weill -
McAuley, David -
Robin Gross