Thanks Glenn. Yes, several global organizations, including IEEE, have structures similar to ISOC's SIGs, and are usually structured around a thematic area. However, in most cases, these are light-weight structures that are not registered, and geographically spread out. We had another case where an ISOC SIG approached us for membership, but we did not proceed with the application because (a) they were not registered anywhere; and (b) they could not establish that a majority of their members were from our region. In this case, however, both these criteria have been fulfilled, which is why we recommended admitting them. With kind regards, satish On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 10:12 PM Glenn McKnight <mcknight.glenn@gmail.com> wrote:
I think Satish can add his views on my comments as well. Many of the IEEE Sections are potential ALS's which are geographically based but they also have something called SIGHT ( Special Interest Group on Humanitarian Technologies) ie. Blockchain, IOT etc which are similar to the SIG in ATLARGE which have very large membership but its a Community of Interest in a specific area of interest. I wouldn't be surprised if the Rural Development SIG has a very large number of IEEE members . g Glenn McKnight NARALO Secretariat mcknight.glenn@gmail.com http://toronto.ieee.ca/ IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair glenn.mcknight@ieee.org skype gmcknight twitter gmcknight 289-830 6259 .
On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 10:41 AM Maureen Hilyard < maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> wrote:
Does this not highlight that we need to look further into our registration process when looking at organisations, particularly those from developing countries, who might form themselves to include individuals from outside of the traditional At-Large regions for reasons that are relevant to their group?
This particular group has 200 members of which 34 are members from outside of the region and in their application, this has been specifically stated. It shows that the group is regionally bound by the majority of its members and its title - rural development - perhaps suggests why people from other regions and who may share similar concerns that bind the group, may be part of it.
On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 12:00 AM Bartlett Morgan < bartlett.morgan@gmail.com> wrote:
Thought exercise: the UN shows up at our door tomorrow and wants to be an ALS. Which region would we stick them in?
Re the SIG, which is it, is it a global-reach organization or isn’t it?
It’s a “No” for me.
- Bart Sent from my mobile
On 18 Sep 2019, at 03:20, Bastiaan Goslings < bastiaan.goslings@ams-ix.net> wrote:
Hi all,
I tend to agree with Olivier and others, and as it stands I therefore am inclined to vote ’no’.
(And I appreciate statements like ‘If we get active participants out of this ALS we should count ourselves lucky. That is the whole point of our ALS recruitment process’ But in this context I find that not a convincing argument, and I do not think the EURALO/LACRALO ‘BIKLAB’ case is comparable to the ISOC Rural Development SIG application we’re discussing now)
I do not know how the SIG that is applying to be an ALS is explicitly and ex ante ’organised so that participation by individual Internet users who are citizens or residents of countries within the Geographic Region in which the ALS is based will predominate in the ALS' operation.’ But to me that contradicts with the purpose of an ISOC SIG: according to the ISOC page that Olivier referred to ‘a SIG is a non-geographical independent entity’ and ‘SIGs have a global scope’. I seriously doubt a ISOC SIG is allowed to be ‘organised’ in such a way that the interests of a particular ‘geographic region will predominate’ its ‘operation’.
While it of course is not our responsibility to see to it that, in this case, a SIG complies with ISOC’s rules, I do wonder why we want to bend our rules, change them, to support this SIG becoming an ALS, also because ‘SIGs (…) have Individual Members of the Internet Society who are also members of a geographical Chapter.’ The obvious way of becoming part At-Large would then be to have the relevant Chapter(s) apply to be an ALS. Assuming that’s not already the case. Being a member of At-Large as an individual is an option too.
thanks, regards Bastiaan
On 18 Sep 2019, at 07:05, Satish Babu via ALAC < alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
Hi Seun,
Thanks for your query.
We have assumed that the organization will have most of its activities in the region where the majority of its members reside, which is Asia-Pacific (South Asia in particular).
With kind regards,
satish
On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 10:28 AM Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com> wrote: Hello Satish,
Based on the section you've quoted, I will like to ask whether the scope of operation of the SIG is exclusively within the APRALO region? If that is the case then I will be fine with this.
Regards Sent from my mobile Kindly excuse brevity and typos
On Wed, 18 Sep 2019, 03:27 Satish Babu via ALAC, < alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote: Dear Olivier,
Thanks for raising this point. During the due diligence process, we had discussed precisely this point in the APRALO list, and had asked Staff to re-verify the geographical aspect.
The responses we received from the applicant through Staff were as follows:
a. The applicant is registered as a not-for-profit in India
b. All office bearers of the organization are based in Asia-Pacific, as are apparently majority of the members.
c. We considered the following section from ICANN's bylaws:
(B) who are citizens or residents of countries within the Geographic Region of the RALO will predominate in the operation of each At-Large Structure within the RALO, while not necessarily excluding additional participation, compatible with the interests of the individual Internet users within the region, by others.
d. On this basis, we have proceeded to recommend admission of this applicant to ALAC. Of course, we have not independently verified the information they have provided, but have taken it on trust.
I also note that we have put on hold an application for membership from another ISOC SIG, because they could not confirm if they had met the above criterion.
I hope this helps.
With kind regards,
satish
On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 6:44 AM Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond < ocl@gih.com> wrote: Dear Maureen,
I am very surprised to see this having reached the ALAC with a recommendation from APRALO that this should be accepted. This should have been picked up at Due Diligence: Internet Society Special Interest Groups are global as per the explanation on https://www.internetsociety.org/sigs This countervenes ALAC rules which specify that ALSes must be geographical. See tinyurl.com/ALAC-RoP-AdjDoc4-2013-07
"2. Be organised so that participation by individual Internet users who are citizens or residents of countries within the Geographic Region in which the ALS is based will predominate in the ALS' operation. The ALS may permit additional participation by others that is compatible with the interests of the individual Internet users within the region."
The key words are "be organised" - and as much as I support the work of the Internet Society Rurel Special Interest Group, rural areas are not limited to Asia. Unless there is a commitment that this SIG will restrict the majority of its membership to come from the Asia region. The explicit response of the SIG in due diligence was "this is a global SIG".
I also have a concern that it would be possible to create one SIG after another in ISOC and the meaning of ALS no longer applies as you are effectively creating votes.
The question of "geographical" was asked on the APRALO mailing list as recently as 11 September 2019 ( https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/pipermail/apac-discuss/2019-September/004952... ) but I do not see any response to this.
Kindest regards,
Olivier
On 18/09/2019 01:58, ICANN At-Large Staff wrote: Dear All,
The regional advice from APRALO regarding the ALS Application (307) Internet Society Rural Development Special Interest Group has been received.
The following question has been posed to the ALAC:
*****
Question: Does the ALAC wish to accredit the (307) Internet Society Rural Development Special Interest Group? The regional advice was to accept the application.
*****
Please note that this vote will close on Tuesday, 24 September 2019 23:59 UTC.
Kind Regards,
ICANN Policy Staff in support of the At-Large Community
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