Dear Jonathan and all, Again I agree, the main issue with the CIP comment was that people were out of scope, those who saw this could not contribute/speak because they thought maybe they were missing something. Accordingly a lot of effort was put on an output that was not required. However, I would like to note that the effort put by the drafters is never wasted and we all as a community recognize it and can indeed make use of it. Best regards Hadia Elminiawi On Thu, 6 Feb 2025 at 18:03, Jonathan Zuck via ALAC <alac@icann.org> wrote:
Joanna and all, Thanks for your feedback on this issue. Perhaps we should have a dedicated discussion in Seattle on the topic of volunteer participation. The issue of credit being taken by those who only superficially participate has been a long-standing issue and has included some who are now complaining so sometimes it makes my head spin. It's a bit of a vicious circle when folks do not participate but complain when they are no longer asked to do so.
I guess my issue, in this particular case, is that we weren't answering the questions which were being asked. At any point, had the small team looked at the RFC and the form that was created, this would have been evident. Was it someone else's responsibility to catch this? I don't know. All I know is that it was a fact that yes, I corrected in an uncomfortable way, at the last minute. The only alternative I saw, at that point, was NOT to correct it and that seemed like a worse outcome from a community wide perspective. To tie this up as an instance of top-down leadership or a lack of appreciation for anyone's effort is to miss the point entirely. At ANY point it looks as though we are about to embarrass ourselves, it seems prudent to act, regardless of how we got there.
This has opened a bunch of wounds that we should definitely address and i stand ready to address them. NO ONE is a bigger fan of metrics than me so let's dive in, once again. Jonathan
------------------------------ *From:* Joanna Kulesza via ALAC <alac@icann.org> *Sent:* Thursday, February 6, 2025 7:25 AM *To:* Judith Hellerstein <judith@jhellerstein.com> *Cc:* alac@icann.org <alac@icann.org> *Subject:* [ALAC] Re: Follow-Up on OFB Meeting – CIP Comment Timeline Review
Dear Johnathan and all,
Thank you for your thoughtful reply and valuable feedback. I am pleased to see that the concerns raised by Maureen, Marita, and I have been well received and are now recognized within the broader community.
While I remain committed to continuous improvement and collaboration, I would like to address a point raised by Pari, Alfredo, and Hadia that reflects a larger issue within our community. It has become increasingly evident that those who contribute the least are the quickest to claim credit for the efforts of others. This "cry wolf" mentality not only diminishes the value of genuine contributions but also discourages the very spirit of collaboration that we all strive to foster. It is critical that we recognize and correct this behavior to maintain the integrity of our work.
Many of us have invested considerable time and energy into community development and capacity-building initiatives. However, it is increasingly disheartening to see these efforts undermined by individuals who, rather than contributing in good faith, instead piggyback on the hard work of others. This situation is no longer tenable, as it discourages genuine contributions and rewards opportunistic behaviors that are both unfair and unethical.
We not only need metrics to track contributions effectively, but we also need concrete measures to discourage those who fail to act in good faith and instead rely on corporate-like practices to advance with minimal actual input. Such practices undermine the collaborative spirit that our community should be built on.
However, we cannot tackle this challenge alone. To ensure that the At-Large community remains collegial, transparent, and grounded in good faith, it is essential that we receive guidance and support from ICANN org. Only through collective action can we create an environment where genuine efforts are recognized, and unethical practices are appropriately addressed.
I look forward to discussing how we can move forward together in addressing these issues and ensuring the continued integrity of our community.
Warm regards,
Joanna
On Thu, 6 Feb 2025 at 15:57, Judith Hellerstein via ALAC <alac@icann.org> wrote:
Hi All, It seems this conversation is moving from one of CIP to one on all issues. I agree that staff have not been explaining the new process well and that has contributed to the confusion around. The idea of reviewers is new and it is also new that these persons give the first presentation. This is new process and not fully explained and is confusing but it is totally a different issue than what happened at the CIP public comment. The two should not be joined together in one discussion. They need to have two separate discussions. Pari’s issue is very different and needs its own separate discussion and should be discussed in another email.
The problem with the CIP issue is that a google form was set up and set up with all the separate questions with separate sections for each sub part and so the volunteers spent the time filling that out. Later it was decided that that approach was wrong and that only the first 4 questions would be answered. This was done after the vote was announced and many people on ALAC approved the statement. That was wrong.
The statement was then changed which discounted the many hours volunteers had worked on it and changed to something that the volunteers who had spent the time writing it did not approve. That is the issue we are talking about and we should not confuse these issues.
How to prevent this process is the topic. Let’s try and stick to this topic
Judith Sent from my iPad judith@jhellerstein.com Skype ID:JudithHellerstein
On Feb 6, 2025, at 8:01 AM, Pari Esfandiari via ALAC <alac@icann.org> wrote:
Dear ALAC Colleagues,
I would like to echo the concerns raised by the small team and others and share my own frustration over the continued lack of transparency in our policy processes and the disregard for volunteer contributions.
After dedicating a full week to reading relevant material and drafting a response that I inserted in the Google document - ICANN FY26-30 Operating & Finacial Plan, ICANN IANA FY26 Operating Plans and Budgets.
in suggestion mode, I was dismayed to find my name removed and my input edited—without any discussion or consultation. This is not an isolated incident. Despite raising similar concerns in December and January, no meaningful action has been taken, discouraging volunteers from further engagement.
Our current document management system lacks fundamental safeguards:
- Anyone with a link can edit freely, creating an unstructured and unaccountable process. - No clear version control or discussion precedes changes. - A proper system should allow open viewing, designated members to comment in suggestion mode, and editing only after collective review.
Additionally, other troubling practices—such as assigning tasks to volunteers without their consent, which burdens others with follow-ups, and granting undue credit that alienates genuine contributors—only create the illusion of engagement rather than fostering true participation. While these actions may be well-intended, they undermine trust and diminish meaningful involvement.
These issues—unstructured processes, performative engagement, and dismissive, top-down leadership—threaten the integrity of the multistakeholder model from within. A volunteer-driven community thrives on transparency, respect, and inclusion, not opaque decision-making and anonymous interventions.
I urge leadership to take immediate steps to implement structured, fair, and transparent processes that respect the time, effort, and autonomy of all contributors.
Best regards, Pari
On Thu, Feb 6, 2025 at 11:37 AM Alfredo Calderon via ALAC <alac@icann.org> wrote:
Dear Natalia,
I have to agree with the key points outlined by other community members. Something is happening that is discouraging some of us to feel more engaged as volunteers in the community of At-Large.
Is it transparency, efficiency or clarity on the definitions of policy comments or even openness when some announcements for EOI or SOI arise? Let’s correct these issues, and as mentioned by others the CIP is a great opportunity to rectify and improve our community.
The next generation to engage in At-Large needs to have a clear idea of what is done and how his/her contributions “could” improve on the work done as volunteers.
Let’s start a conversation as mentioned by Natalia.
Alfredo Calderon Email: calderon.alfredo@gmail.com Twitter: acalderon52 LinkedIn: pr.linkedin.com/in/acalderon52 Skype: alfredo_1212 Business Card: http://myonepage.com/acalderon Blog: https://aprendizajedistancia.blogspot.com VSIG: Virtual School on Internet Governance - https://virtualsig.org
On Feb 6, 2025, at 3:02 AM, Natalia Filina via ALAC <alac@icann.org> wrote:
Hello all,
Dear, Joanna, Maureen, Marita. Thank you for the work you have done. As a participant of the CIP I see in it a real opportunity for our improvement (on RALO level and in the At-Large - ALAC interaction we all are so waiting for). Your analysis and comments on CIP construction is professional and valuable. And the situation with the doc and records is ugly. Dear At-Large colleagues, Isn't it?
I would support you, ladies and follow Abdulkarim's message. We have changed (looks like cancelled without community's decision) a lot in our approaches to consolidated work, to respect volunteer work, to take into account the opinion of the community, to transparency and accountability and responsibility. Unfortunately and definitely, as a result, there is a lack of motivation and active participation in the work, less bottom-up components, fewer and fewer expectations of taking into account At-Large as a main and only one source of... Everithing for ALAC - expertise, energy, feedback from the local community etc, ideas, knowledge etc.
That's why - silence here, people (volunteers especially) working where they trust. We have to go to our classic way to build the community together. Maybe this situation will help us to wake up?
Sincerely, Natalia Filina
Secretary of EURALO https://atlarge.icann.org/alses/euralo
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чт, 6 февр. 2025 г., 09:09 Abdulkarim Oloyede via ALAC <alac@icann.org>:
Dear all
Transparency and accountability within ALAC have long been an issue because we have refused to address most of the root causes, among which are some individuals treating ALAC as their full-time responsibility(Job), imposing their way as the ONLY way. Unfortunately, many have chosen to remain silent. While I am not surprised by these events, what truly surprises me is the overwhelming silence in the face of it. Maybe we are all growing older like myself and have decided to allow everything to slide.
I see this as yet another wake-up call for us to confront these issues. I know this will likely be swept under the carpet, as usual, with the Chair offering a vague explanation without addressing the real issue because ......( i complete this another day). However, we must strive to emulate other SOs and ACs within ICANN, where transparency and openness are upheld. There are many better examples we can follow.
Each time I reflect on ALAC and my time, it pains me deeply.
*Prof. A. A. Oloyede*. *Full Professor of Wireless Telecommunications* *Department of Telecommunications Science, University of Ilorin, Nigeria* *Director, Centre for Research Development and In-House Training (CREDIT) University of Ilorin, Nigeria*
On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 9:41 AM Joanna Kulesza via ALAC <alac@icann.org> wrote:
Dear ALAC Colleagues,
I hope this message finds you well.
As agreed during the OFB meeting last Thursday, I am sending you a formal, detailed review of the CIP comment drafting timeline, which has been prepared by the drafting team: Maureen Hilyard, Marita Moll, and myself (Joanna Kulesza, undersigned below, currently serving as the ALAC Liaison to the GAC) attached to this message. In response to the request made, we have provided a comprehensive recap of the events surrounding the development of this document.
You can find the original document, as submitted by the drafting team for the ALAC vote, also attached for your review. This document includes all the recommendations that resulted from the inclusive and open process, which has been the standard for developing consensus within the At-Large community.
We would like to express once again our continuing disappointment with the processes that have accompanied the drafting of this document, in particular the lack of transparency and accountability that has been identified. We hope that this difficult situation will serve as a catalyst for improving internal procedures to promote greater transparency and clearer accountability mechanisms for all those involved in the preparation of At-Large documents. Ultimately, we seek real progress — not just 'continuous' effort - in improving the multi-stakeholder model for decision making within the ICANN community and, in particular, for the benefit of the unique end-user community whose interests we aspire to represent.
We look forward to continuing our work together to address these important issues.
Best regards,
Joanna Kulesza
(on behalf of the drafting team: Maureen Hilyard, Marita Moll, and Joanna Kulesza) _______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list -- alac@icann.org To unsubscribe send an email to alac-leave@icann.org
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