Thanks Eduardo, That is what I thought you meant. I personally would support this, but as you implied, when it was raised in the Review, there was STRONG opposition and I suspect that in general, that has not changed. To be clear, I opposed the Review recommendations because it was tightly coupled with other recommendations that I thought were very bad. And with the general opposition to eliminating ALSes, we came up with our new recommendation to try to more effectively use ALSes. Alan At 19/09/2019 04:14 PM, Eduardo Diaz wrote: Alan: Yes. The way I see it the more I liked even though initially, I strongly disagreed with this idea when the final ALAC review report was originally published. -ed On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 3:11 PM Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca<mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> > wrote: Are you suggesting remove the concept of ALSes and have only individual members? Alan At 19/09/2019 12:00 PM, Eduardo Diaz wrote: Another possibility is to keep the RALOs, so the concept of regional views is maintained, but make each of its participants individual members and remove the concept of unaffiliated. -ed On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 10:11 PM Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca<mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> > wrote: This is not a result of just our "rules", but is also a core principle from the ICANN Bylaws. I quote: The criteria and standards for the certification of At-Large Structures shall be established in such a way that participation by individual Internet users who are citizens or residents of countries within the Geographic Region of the RALO will predominate in the operation of each At-Large Structure within the RALO, while not necessarily excluding additional participation, compatible with the interests of the individual Internet users within the region, by others. I see two ways of "fixing" this. Both would require a Bylaw change (certainly possible). 1. Abolish RALOs and have all ALSes and unaffiliated members be one amorphous mass. This removes the need to identify an ALS with a specific RALO, since there are none. 2. Develop the concept of an ALS which crosses RALOs and thus does not belong to any of them. If indeed we have a potential ALS that will really help At-Large, we don't want to lose them, but I have an aversion for doing things in violation of our own rules and the ICANN Bylaws. Alan At 17/09/2019 11:53 PM, Maureen Hilyard wrote: Hi Olivier Maybe the rules need changing. Just because a group has members from all over the world, why should we stop them from becoming members of At-Large. The group currently had a leadership team whose members are all resident in the APRALO region. They are one of the few applications that I have seen that actually mentioned the DNS. As an ISOC chapter focusing on rural development, it probably has a majority of members from APRALO if all of its leadership team is from the same region. Since our current rules only note the primary and secondary members of an ALS regardless of who is most active in our work in At-Large, when it comes to who the other members are, no-one really bothers to ask. I would hazard a guess that if we were to do an analysis (and were to be so picky) we would have several groups that have global members. If we get active participants out of this ALS we should count ourselves lucky. That is the whole point of our ALS recruitment process. And as part of our Review we are finding that many of our processes need updating to keep up with the changing needs of the environments we are having to deal with. EURALO itself has been faced with an anomaly which does not fit the rules, but we have found LACRALO to be very obliging to cater for it. And as we revise our ALS Criteria and Expectations we will have to include a new "rule" that allows for ALSes to participate in an event on a neighbouring country that "does not belong to the region in which they are situated". BIKLAB is now a precedent which will allow this to happen more within our system as long as there is agreement between the regions concerned. APRALO has many small island countries in the Pacific that have been unable to participate in ICANN activities in their own right under our current rules because they are territories of big power countries (mainly in EURALO) who are given no support from their home region and would have no idea what EURALO was. Pacific countries are an anomaly because as all the 22 countries and territories of the Pacific are members of the Pacific Forum, they are therefore members of PICISOC, so in fact are members of an ALS already -- so we have international participants in our membership, even though they live in the Pacific. Maureen On Tue, 17 Sep 2019, 3:14 PM Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, <ocl@gih.com<mailto:ocl@gih.com>> wrote: Dear Maureen, I am very surprised to see this having reached the ALAC with a recommendation from APRALO that this should be accepted. This should have been picked up at Due Diligence: Internet Society Special Interest Groups are global as per the explanation on https://www.internetsociety.org/sigs This countervenes ALAC rules which specify that ALSes must be geographical. See tinyurl.com/ALAC-RoP-AdjDoc4-2013-07<http://tinyurl.com/ALAC-RoP-AdjDoc4-2013-07> "2. Be organised so that participation by individual Internet users who are citizens or residents of countries within the Geographic Region in which the ALS is based will predominate in the ALS' operation. The ALS may permit additional participation by others that is compatible with the interests of the individual Internet users within the region." The key words are "be organised" - and as much as I support the work of the Internet Society Rurel Special Interest Group, rural areas are not limited to Asia. Unless there is a commitment that this SIG will restrict the majority of its membership to come from the Asia region. The explicit response of the SIG in due diligence was "this is a global SIG". I also have a concern that it would be possible to create one SIG after another in ISOC and the meaning of ALS no longer applies as you are effectively creating votes. The question of "geographical" was asked on the APRALO mailing list as recently as 11 September 2019 ( https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/pipermail/apac-discuss/2019-September/004952... ) but I do not see any response to this. Kindest regards, Olivier On 18/09/2019 01:58, ICANN At-Large Staff wrote: Dear All, The regional advice from APRALO regarding the ALS Application (307) Internet Society Rural Development Special Interest Group has been received. The following question has been posed to the ALAC: ***** Question: Does the ALAC wish to accredit the (307) Internet Society Rural Development Special Interest Group? The regional advice was to accept the application. ***** Please note that this vote will close on Tuesday, 24 September 2019 23:59 UTC. 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