Draft Agenda for ALAC ExCom meeting of 15th July
Dear Excom: We've taken the liberty of including a number of items for your agenda tomorrow, though of course it is a draft agenda until you adopt it. You'll recall mention of these items previously and that the Staff were asked to produce drafts in relation to items 3 and 4 at your meeting at the end of the Sydney meeting. The agenda may be reviewed at https://st.icann.org/alac-excomm/index.cgi?15_july_2009. ---- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart, Heidi Ullrich, Matthias Langenegger, Gisella Gruber-White ICANN At-Large Staff email: staff@atlarge.icann.org
https://st.icann.org/alac-excomm/index.cgi?15_july_2009 Once upon a time the rationale given for the existence of the Executive Committee was that occasionally ALAC was required to move faster than was, and that a small group of five could handle issues of critical timeliness more easily than the whole group of 15. Fair enough. In December mailing list discussions it was revealed that the ExecComm was going to take on certain additional administrative functions that could (and should) have just as easily been delegated to a conventional working group. Under any situation of normalcy, there would be an ALAC administrative working group, open to all interested people just like all other working groups are right now. Just like topic-driven WGs draft policy recommendations (to be approved by At-Large), so too would a admin WG draft propose changes to matters of internal operation. It would have an ALAC liaision who would raise its issues to the whole group. Instead we have a self-selected group, that (unlike any other WG or subcommittee) shuts out non-ALAC members. Such a closed culture leads to undesirable outcomes, such as the wording of the agenda item regarding two draft documents regarding ALAC job descriptions and the method to select the ALAC Board Liaison: / "Decision Required: Whether or not these items shall be proposed to the full ALAC (as amended if required)"/ Such wording infers that the option exists to NOT bring these issues to ALAC. I can only dream about whether or when the opportunity to debate such issues will trickle down to the RALOs and ALSs. The non-emergency operation of the Executive Committee continues to serve as prima facie evidence of deep ALAC dysfunction, a continued effort to shut out non-ALAC participation in important matters while so much of ALAC is not pulling its weight. I propose that the non-emergency functions of the ExecComm be immediately revoked and charged to a conventional ALAC Administrative Working Group (that would be chaired by the ALAC Secretary, and involve participation by RALO secretariats and anyone else from At-Large who is interested). - Evan PS: I also ask that links to the existing ALAC Working Groups be listed at http://www.atlarge.icann.org/en/ Right now they're almost impossible to find by a casual user (http://www.atlarge.icann.org/en/issues is badly organized, non-intuitively named, and not pointed to from the main ALAC web page). Come to think of it, the who At-Large corner of the ICANN website needs an overhaul, but that's a different issue.
Dear Evan: A lot of time before the events happened, I said this . The "de facto" Ex Comm is much more dangerous than the inactivity. Ex Comm have to work only when the situations need a fast solution, not in other moments. ALAC is a body; Not two differents things, where we have a select group of illuminated, and other which see the train pass only. When I said my possition against the creation of Ex Comm, I was talking about that. And unfortunatly I had reason. Carlos Dionisio Aguirre abogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar http://ar.ageiadensi.org
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:34:46 -0400 From: evan@telly.org To: staff@atlarge.icann.org CC: alac-excom@atlarge-lists.icann.org; alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org Subject: Re: [ALAC] Draft Agenda for ALAC ExCom meeting of 15th July
https://st.icann.org/alac-excomm/index.cgi?15_july_2009
Once upon a time the rationale given for the existence of the Executive Committee was that occasionally ALAC was required to move faster than was, and that a small group of five could handle issues of critical timeliness more easily than the whole group of 15.
Fair enough.
In December mailing list discussions it was revealed that the ExecComm was going to take on certain additional administrative functions that could (and should) have just as easily been delegated to a conventional working group.
Under any situation of normalcy, there would be an ALAC administrative working group, open to all interested people just like all other working groups are right now. Just like topic-driven WGs draft policy recommendations (to be approved by At-Large), so too would a admin WG draft propose changes to matters of internal operation. It would have an ALAC liaision who would raise its issues to the whole group.
Instead we have a self-selected group, that (unlike any other WG or subcommittee) shuts out non-ALAC members.
Such a closed culture leads to undesirable outcomes, such as the wording of the agenda item regarding two draft documents regarding ALAC job descriptions and the method to select the ALAC Board Liaison: / "Decision Required: Whether or not these items shall be proposed to the full ALAC (as amended if required)"/
Such wording infers that the option exists to NOT bring these issues to ALAC. I can only dream about whether or when the opportunity to debate such issues will trickle down to the RALOs and ALSs.
The non-emergency operation of the Executive Committee continues to serve as prima facie evidence of deep ALAC dysfunction, a continued effort to shut out non-ALAC participation in important matters while so much of ALAC is not pulling its weight. I propose that the non-emergency functions of the ExecComm be immediately revoked and charged to a conventional ALAC Administrative Working Group (that would be chaired by the ALAC Secretary, and involve participation by RALO secretariats and anyone else from At-Large who is interested).
- Evan
PS: I also ask that links to the existing ALAC Working Groups be listed at http://www.atlarge.icann.org/en/ Right now they're almost impossible to find by a casual user (http://www.atlarge.icann.org/en/issues is badly organized, non-intuitively named, and not pointed to from the main ALAC web page). Come to think of it, the who At-Large corner of the ICANN website needs an overhaul, but that's a different issue.
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At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org ALAC Working Wiki: http://st.icann.org/alac
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Evan, Carlos, Once Again, I´m with you on this. Couldn´t add a word to your statement. Regards, Andrés Piazza LACRALO Chair -----Mensaje original----- De: alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] En nombre de carlos aguirre Enviado el: martes, 14 de julio de 2009 01:04 p.m. Para: Evan Leibovitch; At-Large Staff CC: 'ALAC-excom@atlarge-lists.icann.org'; lista publica de ALAC Asunto: Re: [ALAC] Draft Agenda for ALAC ExCom meeting of 15th July Dear Evan: A lot of time before the events happened, I said this . The "de facto" Ex Comm is much more dangerous than the inactivity. Ex Comm have to work only when the situations need a fast solution, not in other moments. ALAC is a body; Not two differents things, where we have a select group of illuminated, and other which see the train pass only. When I said my possition against the creation of Ex Comm, I was talking about that. And unfortunatly I had reason. Carlos Dionisio Aguirre abogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar http://ar.ageiadensi.org
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:34:46 -0400 From: evan@telly.org To: staff@atlarge.icann.org CC: alac-excom@atlarge-lists.icann.org; alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org Subject: Re: [ALAC] Draft Agenda for ALAC ExCom meeting of 15th July
https://st.icann.org/alac-excomm/index.cgi?15_july_2009
Once upon a time the rationale given for the existence of the Executive Committee was that occasionally ALAC was required to move faster than was, and that a small group of five could handle issues of critical timeliness more easily than the whole group of 15.
Fair enough.
In December mailing list discussions it was revealed that the ExecComm was going to take on certain additional administrative functions that could (and should) have just as easily been delegated to a conventional working group.
Under any situation of normalcy, there would be an ALAC administrative working group, open to all interested people just like all other working groups are right now. Just like topic-driven WGs draft policy recommendations (to be approved by At-Large), so too would a admin WG draft propose changes to matters of internal operation. It would have an ALAC liaision who would raise its issues to the whole group.
Instead we have a self-selected group, that (unlike any other WG or subcommittee) shuts out non-ALAC members.
Such a closed culture leads to undesirable outcomes, such as the wording of the agenda item regarding two draft documents regarding ALAC job descriptions and the method to select the ALAC Board Liaison: / "Decision Required: Whether or not these items shall be proposed to the full ALAC (as amended if required)"/
Such wording infers that the option exists to NOT bring these issues to ALAC. I can only dream about whether or when the opportunity to debate such issues will trickle down to the RALOs and ALSs.
The non-emergency operation of the Executive Committee continues to serve as prima facie evidence of deep ALAC dysfunction, a continued effort to shut out non-ALAC participation in important matters while so much of ALAC is not pulling its weight. I propose that the non-emergency functions of the ExecComm be immediately revoked and charged to a conventional ALAC Administrative Working Group (that would be chaired by the ALAC Secretary, and involve participation by RALO secretariats and anyone else from At-Large who is interested).
- Evan
PS: I also ask that links to the existing ALAC Working Groups be listed at http://www.atlarge.icann.org/en/ Right now they're almost impossible to find by a casual user (http://www.atlarge.icann.org/en/issues is badly organized, non-intuitively named, and not pointed to from the main ALAC web page). Come to think of it, the who At-Large corner of the ICANN website needs an overhaul, but that's a different issue.
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At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org ALAC Working Wiki: http://st.icann.org/alac
_________________________________________________________________ Disfrutá los mejores videos de MSN mientras chateas http://messengertv.msn.com/mkt/es-ar/ _______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org ALAC Working Wiki: http://st.icann.org/alac Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.13/2237 - Release Date: 07/14/09 05:56:00
I agreed with Carlos then and still do it now José Ovidio Salgueiro A. salgueiro.jo@gmail.com -----Mensaje original----- De: alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] En nombre de carlos aguirre Enviado el: martes, 14 de julio de 2009 11:34 a.m. Para: Evan Leibovitch; At-Large Staff CC: 'ALAC-excom@atlarge-lists.icann.org'; lista publica de ALAC Asunto: Re: [ALAC] Draft Agenda for ALAC ExCom meeting of 15th July Dear Evan: A lot of time before the events happened, I said this . The "de facto" Ex Comm is much more dangerous than the inactivity. Ex Comm have to work only when the situations need a fast solution, not in other moments. ALAC is a body; Not two differents things, where we have a select group of illuminated, and other which see the train pass only. When I said my possition against the creation of Ex Comm, I was talking about that. And unfortunatly I had reason. Carlos Dionisio Aguirre abogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar http://ar.ageiadensi.org
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2009 11:34:46 -0400 From: evan@telly.org To: staff@atlarge.icann.org CC: alac-excom@atlarge-lists.icann.org; alac@atlarge-lists.icann.org Subject: Re: [ALAC] Draft Agenda for ALAC ExCom meeting of 15th July
https://st.icann.org/alac-excomm/index.cgi?15_july_2009
Once upon a time the rationale given for the existence of the Executive Committee was that occasionally ALAC was required to move faster than was, and that a small group of five could handle issues of critical timeliness more easily than the whole group of 15.
Fair enough.
In December mailing list discussions it was revealed that the ExecComm was going to take on certain additional administrative functions that could (and should) have just as easily been delegated to a conventional working group.
Under any situation of normalcy, there would be an ALAC administrative working group, open to all interested people just like all other working groups are right now. Just like topic-driven WGs draft policy recommendations (to be approved by At-Large), so too would a admin WG draft propose changes to matters of internal operation. It would have an ALAC liaision who would raise its issues to the whole group.
Instead we have a self-selected group, that (unlike any other WG or subcommittee) shuts out non-ALAC members.
Such a closed culture leads to undesirable outcomes, such as the wording of the agenda item regarding two draft documents regarding ALAC job descriptions and the method to select the ALAC Board Liaison: / "Decision Required: Whether or not these items shall be proposed to the full ALAC (as amended if required)"/
Such wording infers that the option exists to NOT bring these issues to ALAC. I can only dream about whether or when the opportunity to debate such issues will trickle down to the RALOs and ALSs.
The non-emergency operation of the Executive Committee continues to serve as prima facie evidence of deep ALAC dysfunction, a continued effort to shut out non-ALAC participation in important matters while so much of ALAC is not pulling its weight. I propose that the non-emergency functions of the ExecComm be immediately revoked and charged to a conventional ALAC Administrative Working Group (that would be chaired by the ALAC Secretary, and involve participation by RALO secretariats and anyone else from At-Large who is interested).
- Evan
PS: I also ask that links to the existing ALAC Working Groups be listed at http://www.atlarge.icann.org/en/ Right now they're almost impossible to find by a casual user (http://www.atlarge.icann.org/en/issues is badly organized, non-intuitively named, and not pointed to from the main ALAC web page). Come to think of it, the who At-Large corner of the ICANN website needs an overhaul, but that's a different issue.
_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org
http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org ALAC Working Wiki: http://st.icann.org/alac
_________________________________________________________________ Disfrutá los mejores videos de MSN mientras chateas http://messengertv.msn.com/mkt/es-ar/ _______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org ALAC Working Wiki: http://st.icann.org/alac
Dear Evan: It would not be appropriate for me to comment on the substance of your comments of course, but with respect to the technical issues: there is no impediment to anyone on ALAC or the RALOs joining Excom calls (which is of course why their agendas are public and their meetings are announced). Evan Leibovitch wrote:
https://st.icann.org/alac-excomm/index.cgi?15_july_2009
Once upon a time the rationale given for the existence of the Executive Committee was that occasionally ALAC was required to move faster than was, and that a small group of five could handle issues of critical timeliness more easily than the whole group of 15.
Fair enough.
In December mailing list discussions it was revealed that the ExecComm was going to take on certain additional administrative functions that could (and should) have just as easily been delegated to a conventional working group.
Under any situation of normalcy, there would be an ALAC administrative working group, open to all interested people just like all other working groups are right now. Just like topic-driven WGs draft policy recommendations (to be approved by At-Large), so too would a admin WG draft propose changes to matters of internal operation. It would have an ALAC liaision who would raise its issues to the whole group.
Instead we have a self-selected group, that (unlike any other WG or subcommittee) shuts out non-ALAC members.
Such a closed culture leads to undesirable outcomes, such as the wording of the agenda item regarding two draft documents regarding ALAC job descriptions and the method to select the ALAC Board Liaison: / "Decision Required: Whether or not these items shall be proposed to the full ALAC (as amended if required)"/
Such wording infers that the option exists to NOT bring these issues to ALAC. I can only dream about whether or when the opportunity to debate such issues will trickle down to the RALOs and ALSs.
The non-emergency operation of the Executive Committee continues to serve as prima facie evidence of deep ALAC dysfunction, a continued effort to shut out non-ALAC participation in important matters while so much of ALAC is not pulling its weight. I propose that the non-emergency functions of the ExecComm be immediately revoked and charged to a conventional ALAC Administrative Working Group (that would be chaired by the ALAC Secretary, and involve participation by RALO secretariats and anyone else from At-Large who is interested).
- Evan
PS: I also ask that links to the existing ALAC Working Groups be listed at http://www.atlarge.icann.org/en/ Right now they're almost impossible to find by a casual user (http://www.atlarge.icann.org/en/issues is badly organized, non-intuitively named, and not pointed to from the main ALAC web page). Come to think of it, the who At-Large corner of the ICANN website needs an overhaul, but that's a different issue.
_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org ALAC Working Wiki: http://st.icann.org/alac
-- -- Regards, Nick Ashton-Hart Director for At-Large Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) Tel: +33 (450) 42 81 83 USA Tel: +1 (310) 301-8637 Fax: : +41 (22) 594-85-44 Mobile: (Switzerland): +41 79 595 5468 email: nick.ashton-hart@icann.org Win IM: ashtonhart@hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart@mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart
Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:
It would not be appropriate for me to comment on the substance of your comments of course, but with respect to the technical issues: there is no impediment to anyone on ALAC or the RALOs joining Excom calls (which is of course why their agendas are public and their meetings are announced). Sure, and that much is appreciated. However, it's still a group of closed membership, taking on a role that has no business being assigned to a group of closed membership.
I've already experienced ALAC meetings at which my "hand up" isn't recognized until all "official" members have exhausted themselves. I would expect ExecComm meetings to be even a further step removed from full participation. And meeting attendance, just for the sake of being in the audience, is not a good use of my time. - Evan
I have to agree with Evan and Carlos. This group was never to have regular meetings but just be there for emergencies. IMHO, this is completely against what ALAC is supposed to stand for (openness, transparency and a voice from the public). This whole ExComm thing needs to be put out of its misery. If a group of 15 cannot make timely decisions, then the whole structure of ALAC needs to be reconsidered. (as scary as that is) D Darlene A. Thompson Community Access Program Administrator Nunavut Dept. of Education / N-CAP P.O. Box 1000, Station 910 Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0 Phone: (867) 975-5631 Fax: (867) 975-5610 E-mail: dthompson@gov.nu.ca -----Original Message----- From: alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Evan Leibovitch Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 1:06 PM To: Nick Ashton-Hart Cc: At-Large Staff; ALAC EXCOM; At-Large Worldwide Subject: Re: [ALAC] Draft Agenda for ALAC ExCom meeting of 15th July Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:
It would not be appropriate for me to comment on the substance of your comments of course, but with respect to the technical issues: there is no impediment to anyone on ALAC or the RALOs joining Excom calls (which is of course why their agendas are public and their meetings are announced). Sure, and that much is appreciated. However, it's still a group of closed membership, taking on a role that has no business being assigned to a group of closed membership.
I've already experienced ALAC meetings at which my "hand up" isn't recognized until all "official" members have exhausted themselves. I would expect ExecComm meetings to be even a further step removed from full participation. And meeting attendance, just for the sake of being in the audience, is not a good use of my time. - Evan _______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann .org At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org ALAC Working Wiki: http://st.icann.org/alac
Thompson, Darlene wrote:
This whole ExComm thing needs to be put out of its misery. If a group of 15 cannot make timely decisions, then the whole structure of ALAC needs to be reconsidered. (as scary as that is)
It's not the structure that's at fault so much as under-performance by ALAC members. I notice that the new documents include a job description for ALAC members which details what's expected of them, but lacks any "or else" clauses describing what should happen if those expectations are not met. So far in the history of ALAC there has been only one person who has left their position because of poor performance, and that happened only because of RALO initiative. ALAC, rather than policing itself, has chosen the ExecComm as an expedient dodge. (which reminds me ... it seems to have been quite a while since staff produced its last performance chart...) - Evan
At 14/07/2009 01:35 PM, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
Thompson, Darlene wrote:
This whole ExComm thing needs to be put out of its misery. If a group of 15 cannot make timely decisions, then the whole structure of ALAC needs to be reconsidered. (as scary as that is)
It's not the structure that's at fault so much as under-performance by ALAC members.
I notice that the new documents include a job description for ALAC members which details what's expected of them, but lacks any "or else" clauses describing what should happen if those expectations are not met. So far in the history of ALAC there has been only one person who has left their position because of poor performance, and that happened only because of RALO initiative. ALAC, rather than policing itself, has chosen the ExecComm as an expedient dodge.
(which reminds me ... it seems to have been quite a while since staff produced its last performance chart...)
- Evan
Without commenting on the specifics of the Job Description which I have not yet studied, perhaps problems such as the one you mention are the reason that we wanted a few people to quickly look at it before opening it up to a full committee discussion (imagining that we ever have such an event). Alan
participants (8)
-
Alan Greenberg -
Andres Piazza -
At-Large Staff -
carlos aguirre -
Evan Leibovitch -
José Ovidio Salgueiro A. -
Nick Ashton-Hart -
Thompson, Darlene