Re: [ALAC] [lac-discuss-en] Replacement Elector For Leon Sánchez
I add my support for Fatima to replace Leon as elector for the Board member election. Notwithstanding my support here, the rule that makes the RALO the determining voice for the vote of a NomCom appointed ALAC member is hopelessly flawed. Maybe it was unintentional but this impugns the independence of the member. The unfettered independence of the NomCom appointed ALAC member is a major objective of that process and is meant to insulate that person from regional passions. That independence is especially valuable when that is an elector for the Board member. should not be conscripted. -Carlton Samuels ============================== *Carlton A Samuels* *Mobile: 876-818-1799Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* =============================
Dear Carlton, You are right. We asked about this issue before to the staff. We did not understand why LACRALO should replace León because he was nominated by NOMCOM. However, that was the rule we have to follow. Regards Enviado desde mi iPhone
El 10-02-2017, a las 13:07, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> escribió:
I add my support for Fatima to replace Leon as elector for the Board member election.
Notwithstanding my support here, the rule that makes the RALO the determining voice for the vote of a NomCom appointed ALAC member is hopelessly flawed.
Maybe it was unintentional but this impugns the independence of the member. The unfettered independence of the NomCom appointed ALAC member is a major objective of that process and is meant to insulate that person from regional passions. That independence is especially valuable when that is an elector for the Board member. should not be conscripted.
-Carlton Samuels
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround =============================
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I can't think of a better mechanism, except for asking the regional leadership (remaining ALAC members, RALO Chair and Secretariat) to appoint from amongst those who step forward. The NomComm isn't equipped for such an event, and the replacement process can't take long because of the short window between the release of the slate (when we know who must be replaced) and the vote on it (when the selected person must vote). Ideas? On 10 February 2017 at 11:19, Humberto Carrasco <hcarrascob@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Carlton,
You are right. We asked about this issue before to the staff. We did not understand why LACRALO should replace León because he was nominated by NOMCOM.
However, that was the rule we have to follow.
Regards
Enviado desde mi iPhone
El 10-02-2017, a las 13:07, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> escribió:
I add my support for Fatima to replace Leon as elector for the Board member election.
Notwithstanding my support here, the rule that makes the RALO the determining voice for the vote of a NomCom appointed ALAC member is hopelessly flawed.
Maybe it was unintentional but this impugns the independence of the member. The unfettered independence of the NomCom appointed ALAC member is a major objective of that process and is meant to insulate that person from regional passions. That independence is especially valuable when that is an elector for the Board member. should not be conscripted.
-Carlton Samuels
============================== *Carlton A Samuels*
*Mobile: 876-818-1799 <(876)%20818-1799>Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* =============================
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-- Evan Leibovitch Toronto, Canada Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56
Hello, we can keep it even brief and simple: It's not the question here how the ALAC members have been selected (RALOs or NomCom). The point is that an ALAC member who is a candidate in this voting is supposed to be prejudiced and cannot vote for him/herself. We needed to find replacement electors when a EURALO candidate ended up on the final slate. And the "replacement" is restricted to this voting only. Best, Wolf Judith Hellerstein wrote Fri, 10 Feb 2017 13:07:
Hi Carlton,
We went through this in NARALO and this is how it was explained to us. The At large person for the ICANN Board is elected by the 15 members of ALAC + the vote from each of the 5 RALOS. Since both Alan and Leon are on the ALAC, the rules as was told to me state that since the electors are not allowed to vote for themselves, they have to give their ALAC vote to another person In our case, Alan was elected by the RALOS but in :LACRALO Leon was apparently elected by NomCom. I see your point there, it is different, and I see how you can think we cannot replace a nomcomm elected person, This may be true, but then we are in conflict with the At Large rules of procedure. Since we cannon change our rules of procedure we need to go thru the path designated by it and that path is that both Alan and Leon need to find some one to take their place and vote for the At large person on the board.
I hope that is clear. We can look at fixing up the rules and procedure for the next time
Best,
Judith
_________________________________________________________________________Judith Hellerstein, Founder & CEOHellerstein & Associates3001 Veazey Terrace NW, Washington DC 20008Phone: (202) 362-5139 Skype ID: judithhellersteinE-mail: Judith@jhellerstein.com Website: www.jhellerstein.comLinked In: www.linkedin.com/in/jhellerstein/Opening Telecom & Technology Opportunities Worldwide
On 2/10/2017 11:07 AM, Carlton Samuels wrote: I add my support for Fatima to replace Leon as elector for the Board member election. Notwithstanding my support here, the rule that makes the RALO the determining voice for the vote of a NomCom appointed ALAC member is hopelessly flawed. Maybe it was unintentional but this impugns the independence of the member. The unfettered independence of the NomCom appointed ALAC member is a major objective of that process and is meant to insulate that person from regional passions. That independence is especially valuable when that is an elector for the Board member. should not be conscripted. -Carlton Samuels
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround =============================
_______________________________________________ALAC mailing listALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.orghttps://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alacAt-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.orgALAC Working Wiki: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Advisory+Committee+(ALA...)
EuroDIG Secretariat http://www.eurodig.org/ mobile +41 79 204 83 87 Skype: Wolf-Ludwig Swiss IGF http://swiss-igf.ch EURALO - ICANN's Regional At-Large Organisation http://euralo.org Profile on LinkedIn http://ch.linkedin.com/in/wolfludwig
To me, the issue is simple. Either each candidate can vote (presumely for themselves) or neither can vote for themselves. Since ALAC rules do not allow ALAC members to vote for themselves, then each of them (regardless of how they are on the ALAC) finds another ALAC member to vote for them. Holly On 11 Feb 2017, at 6:00 am, Wolf Ludwig <wolf.ludwig@comunica-ch.net> wrote:
Hello,
we can keep it even brief and simple: It's not the question here how the ALAC members have been selected (RALOs or NomCom). The point is that an ALAC member who is a candidate in this voting is supposed to be prejudiced and cannot vote for him/herself. We needed to find replacement electors when a EURALO candidate ended up on the final slate. And the "replacement" is restricted to this voting only.
Best, Wolf
Judith Hellerstein wrote Fri, 10 Feb 2017 13:07:
Hi Carlton,
We went through this in NARALO and this is how it was explained to us. The At large person for the ICANN Board is elected by the 15 members of ALAC + the vote from each of the 5 RALOS. Since both Alan and Leon are on the ALAC, the rules as was told to me state that since the electors are not allowed to vote for themselves, they have to give their ALAC vote to another person In our case, Alan was elected by the RALOS but in :LACRALO Leon was apparently elected by NomCom. I see your point there, it is different, and I see how you can think we cannot replace a nomcomm elected person, This may be true, but then we are in conflict with the At Large rules of procedure. Since we cannon change our rules of procedure we need to go thru the path designated by it and that path is that both Alan and Leon need to find some one to take their place and vote for the At large person on the board.
I hope that is clear. We can look at fixing up the rules and procedure for the next time
Best,
Judith
_________________________________________________________________________Judith Hellerstein, Founder & CEOHellerstein & Associates3001 Veazey Terrace NW, Washington DC 20008Phone: (202) 362-5139 Skype ID: judithhellersteinE-mail: Judith@jhellerstein.com Website: www.jhellerstein.comLinked In: www.linkedin.com/in/jhellerstein/Opening Telecom & Technology Opportunities Worldwide
On 2/10/2017 11:07 AM, Carlton Samuels wrote: I add my support for Fatima to replace Leon as elector for the Board member election. Notwithstanding my support here, the rule that makes the RALO the determining voice for the vote of a NomCom appointed ALAC member is hopelessly flawed. Maybe it was unintentional but this impugns the independence of the member. The unfettered independence of the NomCom appointed ALAC member is a major objective of that process and is meant to insulate that person from regional passions. That independence is especially valuable when that is an elector for the Board member. should not be conscripted. -Carlton Samuels
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround =============================
_______________________________________________ALAC mailing listALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.orghttps://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alacAt-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.orgALAC Working Wiki: https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Advisory+Committee+(ALA...)
EuroDIG Secretariat http://www.eurodig.org/ mobile +41 79 204 83 87 Skype: Wolf-Ludwig
Swiss IGF http://swiss-igf.ch
EURALO - ICANN's Regional At-Large Organisation http://euralo.org
Profile on LinkedIn http://ch.linkedin.com/in/wolfludwig _______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac
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Hi Judith: As I have noted elsewhere, the reasoning that produced that rule is predicated on the fiction that a candidate for the Board seat is selfless. And, without a smidgen of self-interest or ambition. To my mind, that is a farce with an expired sell-by date. In my neck of the woods the Prime Minister does not lose his right to vote because he aspires to be Prime Minister and is an elector in the riding where he lives. Quite frankly, to my mind a guy running for high office who would not vote for himself would not get my vote, purely on condition he's likely a confirmed hypocrite...or a common fool. If we are drawn to form rather than substance, the simple solution is to have a proxy in the class of electors. And as NomCom-appointed elector, that appointment should be his/her unfettered right. Carlton ============================== *Carlton A Samuels* *Mobile: 876-818-1799Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* ============================= On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 1:07 PM, Judith Hellerstein <judith@jhellerstein.com
wrote:
Hi Carlton,
We went through this in NARALO and this is how it was explained to us. The At large person for the ICANN Board is elected by the 15 members of ALAC + the vote from each of the 5 RALOS. Since both Alan and Leon are on the ALAC, the rules as was told to me state that since the electors are not allowed to vote for themselves, they have to give their ALAC vote to another person In our case, Alan was elected by the RALOS but in :LACRALO Leon was apparently elected by NomCom. I see your point there, it is different, and I see how you can think we cannot replace a nomcomm elected person, This may be true, but then we are in conflict with the At Large rules of procedure. Since we cannon change our rules of procedure we need to go thru the path designated by it and that path is that both Alan and Leon need to find some one to take their place and vote for the At large person on the board.
I hope that is clear. We can look at fixing up the rules and procedure for the next time
Best,
Judith
_________________________________________________________________________ Judith Hellerstein, Founder & CEO Hellerstein & Associates 3001 Veazey Terrace NW, Washington DC 20008 Phone: (202) 362-5139 Skype ID: judithhellerstein E-mail: Judith@jhellerstein.com Website: www.jhellerstein.com Linked In: www.linkedin.com/in/jhellerstein/ Opening Telecom & Technology Opportunities Worldwide
On 2/10/2017 11:07 AM, Carlton Samuels wrote:
I add my support for Fatima to replace Leon as elector for the Board member election.
Notwithstanding my support here, the rule that makes the RALO the determining voice for the vote of a NomCom appointed ALAC member is hopelessly flawed.
Maybe it was unintentional but this impugns the independence of the member. The unfettered independence of the NomCom appointed ALAC member is a major objective of that process and is meant to insulate that person from regional passions. That independence is especially valuable when that is an elector for the Board member. should not be conscripted.
-Carlton Samuels
============================== *Carlton A Samuels*
*Mobile: 876-818-1799 <(876)%20818-1799> Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* =============================
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Hi Carlton, I do not agree with the alac rules, but they are what they are unless we change them Judith Sent from my iPad Judith@jhellerstein.com Skype ID: judithhellerstein
On Feb 24, 2017, at 12:36 AM, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Judith: As I have noted elsewhere, the reasoning that produced that rule is predicated on the fiction that a candidate for the Board seat is selfless. And, without a smidgen of self-interest or ambition. To my mind, that is a farce with an expired sell-by date.
In my neck of the woods the Prime Minister does not lose his right to vote because he aspires to be Prime Minister and is an elector in the riding where he lives. Quite frankly, to my mind a guy running for high office who would not vote for himself would not get my vote, purely on condition he's likely a confirmed hypocrite...or a common fool.
If we are drawn to form rather than substance, the simple solution is to have a proxy in the class of electors. And as NomCom-appointed elector, that appointment should be his/her unfettered right.
Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround =============================
On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 1:07 PM, Judith Hellerstein <judith@jhellerstein.com> wrote: Hi Carlton,
We went through this in NARALO and this is how it was explained to us. The At large person for the ICANN Board is elected by the 15 members of ALAC + the vote from each of the 5 RALOS. Since both Alan and Leon are on the ALAC, the rules as was told to me state that since the electors are not allowed to vote for themselves, they have to give their ALAC vote to another person In our case, Alan was elected by the RALOS but in :LACRALO Leon was apparently elected by NomCom. I see your point there, it is different, and I see how you can think we cannot replace a nomcomm elected person, This may be true, but then we are in conflict with the At Large rules of procedure. Since we cannon change our rules of procedure we need to go thru the path designated by it and that path is that both Alan and Leon need to find some one to take their place and vote for the At large person on the board. I hope that is clear. We can look at fixing up the rules and procedure for the next time Best,
Judith _________________________________________________________________________ Judith Hellerstein, Founder & CEO Hellerstein & Associates 3001 Veazey Terrace NW, Washington DC 20008 Phone: (202) 362-5139 Skype ID: judithhellerstein E-mail: Judith@jhellerstein.com Website: www.jhellerstein.com Linked In: www.linkedin.com/in/jhellerstein/ Opening Telecom & Technology Opportunities Worldwide
On 2/10/2017 11:07 AM, Carlton Samuels wrote: I add my support for Fatima to replace Leon as elector for the Board member election.
Notwithstanding my support here, the rule that makes the RALO the determining voice for the vote of a NomCom appointed ALAC member is hopelessly flawed.
Maybe it was unintentional but this impugns the independence of the member. The unfettered independence of the NomCom appointed ALAC member is a major objective of that process and is meant to insulate that person from regional passions. That independence is especially valuable when that is an elector for the Board member. should not be conscripted.
-Carlton Samuels
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround =============================
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participants (6)
-
Carlton Samuels -
Evan Leibovitch -
Holly Raiche -
Humberto Carrasco -
Judith Hellerstein -
Wolf Ludwig