I would note that the same is true for a technical function located in any other country in the world. The US is not a unique sovereign in this regard. So the larger question should be one of the relationship between the types of sites in a domain and the laws of the country in which the administrative or technical functions reside and whether that should be a consideration regarding the location of those functions. Of course then one has to take into account is this a policy area in which ICANN has a role or is just an observer and possible commentator. Ray
-----Original Message----- From: at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:at-large- bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Carlton Samuels Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 9:54 AM To: At-Large Worldwide Subject: Re: [At-Large] U.S. seizure of .ORG domain name
Dev Wrote: If a ccTLD has outsourced its technical function (and several ccTLD do) to a US based registry operator, perhaps the US legal system can shut down a domain under a ccTLD by serving the seizure warrant to the US based registry operator of that ccTLD.
Dev T
In actual fact, yes.
Here's something else. Domains representing search engine that had a link to the domain of the USG's primary interest were also seized! Aiding and abetting, it is said.
Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround =============================
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 9:19 PM, Dev Anand Teelucksingh <admin@ttcsweb.org>wrote:
On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> wrote:
So if online casinos are illegal in the US, it should be no
surprise that
its legal system would take steps to shut down -- to whatever extent that it could -- "onlinecasino.com". They'd have no jurisdiction, however on " onlinecasino.co.uk" -- unless that registrant was foolish enough to use a US-based registrar.
If a ccTLD has outsourced its technical function (and several ccTLD do) to a US based registry operator, perhaps the US legal system can shut down a domain under a ccTLD by serving the seizure warrant to the US based registry operator of that ccTLD.
Dev T
I don't agree that At-Large has much of a political role to play, in that no country is going to listen to our complaints about content-related domain seizures. And it's not within our ability -- let alone our expertise -- to monitor and pass judgement on what content is illegal in all sovereign countries.
Perhaps, though, we do have a role to play in educating users and registrants about the choices they make when obtaining a domain, including issues related to the home location of the registry and registrar. (This need-to-know also extends to the location of the would-be registrant's content hosting, but that's way out of ICANN's scope.)
Anything that helps educate the public that there is not a "default" TLD but a set of choices -- each choice with certain benefits and risks -- is both useful and within our ability to provide IMO.
- Evan
On 3 February 2011 16:08, Yassin Mshana <ymshana2003@hotmail.com> wrote:
This is Unspeakable!!! It is commonly knowledge that No one Nation or State should
interfere with
events beyond its boundaries - unfortunately there are no boundaries when it comes to the Internet. Internet-based businesses are lucrative yes! It is time a Government to change/review its Customs/Revenue Collection systems not to take actions that affect the rest of the Internet communities. The GAC should see into this to avoid similar attacks to such a neutral media. Time for a Change is overdue on this.
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 08:44:01 +0100 From: patrick@vande-walle.eu To: at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org Subject: Re: [At-Large] U.S. seizure of .ORG domain name
I support this, too.
I am not discussing here if the site infringed on US laws. This is apparently the case. However, the decision to take down the domain has consequences well outside the territorial boundaries where US laws apply. It gets even worse when there is one court decision of a sovereign country which says that the site is legal. AFAIK, Spain is not a banana republic. I am convinced that due diligence and fairness where followed by Spanish courts.
I find it grossly impolite, to say the least, to impose one's legal and moral values to the entire world. This is what needs to transpire from our complaint.
Over here, when court decisions order to block web sites, local ISPs are told to either block DNS queries for the domain or null route the IP address. I am not saying this is ideal or even effective. But at least, the impact does not spread beyond the territorial limits of the laws.
Patrick
> I would support this. > > Btw, the USG has used similar tactics to take down domains that are used for > online gaming centred on Antigua in the Caribbean . Online gaming is legal > in Antigua but it matters not to US interests. > > Antigua has sought relief at the WTO on areas of WTO jurisdiction and she > has repeatedly prevailed. Still has not mattered to our Uncle Sam. > > Carlton > > ============================== > Carlton A Samuels > Mobile: 876-818-1799 > Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround > ============================= > > On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:58 AM, Adam Peake wrote: > >> I propose the At Large/ALAC protest the U.S. government's seizure of >> domain name Rojadirecta.org. >> >> Rojadirecta is a popular sports streaming and P2P download site. >> Rojadirecta is a legitimate Spanish business. Two Spanish courts have >> ruled the site operates legally. >> >> It seems the U.S. Government Homeland Security's Immigration and >> Customs Enforcement (ICE) division used the TLD as the means of >> seizure in an attempt to take down the site. If the action was >> against the registrar then a registrant would at least have a choice >> of jurisdiction. But this action on ORG, and the actions on .COM >> names last November essentially means the U.S. government considers >> COM, NET and ORG to be nothing more than ccTLDs subject to U.S. whim >> (this isn't a legal action, there has been no court case, no due >> process.) >> >> Rojadirecta is now available under other TLDs >>
>> as well its original IP address >> . >> >> Expect there will be a lot written about this, this article's ok as a >> starting point: >> < >>
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110201/10252412910/homeland- security-seizes-spanish-domain-name-that-had-already-been-declared- legal.shtml
[4]
>> >>> >> >> I hope At Large will issue a statement protesting the use of the TLD >> registry as a means of takedown. That it recommends when the NET, ORG >> and COM contracts are renegotiated they should move to a jurisdiction >> where such unilateral action by a government is not possible. That >> the new applicant guidebook require applicants to only locate in >> jurisdictions where such unilateral action by a government is not >> possible. >> >> Legitimate businesses should not be subject to the whim of a U.S. agency. >> >> Adam >> _______________________________________________ >> At-Large mailing list >> At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org [5] >> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large [6] >> >> At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org [7] >
> At-Large mailing list > At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org [9] > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large [10] > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org [11]
_______________________________________________
At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org [12]
https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large [13]
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org [14]
-- Blog: http://patrick.vande-walle.eu Twitter: http://twitter.vande-walle.eu
Links: ------ [1] http://www.rojadirecta.me [2] http://www.rojadirecta.es [3] http://www.rojadirecta.in [4]
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110201/10252412910/homeland- security-seizes-spanish-domain-name-that-had-already-been-declared- legal.shtml
[5] mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org [6] https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large [7] http://atlarge.icann.org [8] mailto:ajp@glocom.ac.jp [9] mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org [10] https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large [11] http://atlarge.icann.org [12] mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org [13] https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large [14] http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
-- Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org