I just realised that I replied to Karl without copying the full list, sorry r Begin forwarded message: From: Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com<mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>> Subject: Re: [At-Large] ICANN Funding Request FY22-05 Date: 13. May 2021 at 08:47:01 CEST To: Karl Auerbach <karl@cavebear.com<mailto:karl@cavebear.com>> In my view, there is at least one fundamental question that is strictly related to DNS issues - even leaving aside the question whether that ICANN remit is “just” DNS issues, on which I disagree: how to allow better participation of Internet users and how to allow ALAC to more accurately represent their views and instances in the ICANN policy development processes. Let me remind once again that while other stakeholders - including, but not limited to, contracted parties - do “volunteer” activities as part of their paid job, plain Internet users do not have the time and resources for participating to the ICANN processes at the comparable level. Hence helping to vehicle the users’ voice in a more accurate way is not optional, but a basic requirement for the good functioning of the multi-stakeholder model. In simple words, while I like very much the ideas of myself and other fellow At-Large volunteers - and I believe that we are always right :-) - I do not mind being able to verify in the field that what we say and do is in line with the large Internet user community, including the “not yet Internet users”, the vast majority of which has never even heard of ICANN - not to even mention ALAC - and whose voice would be absent unless we proactively search for it. Cheers, Roberto On 12.05.2021, at 22:27, Karl Auerbach <karl@cavebear.com<mailto:karl@cavebear.com>> wrote: I am watching this from the sidelines and thinking: "What, if anything, does all of this have to do with ICANN's remit?" My own answer is "very little". Which leads me to wonder why ICANN ought to be funding something that has no clear relationship to its own mission. Certainly there are many issues and problems to be addressed that have some link (however tenuous) to the internet (small 'i' or large 'I'). But is it appropriate that they all are squeezed into ICANN's bottle? Perhaps those issues ought to be handled in another forum where the rules are not so shaped as to always be viewed through lenses that are best shaped to deal with DNS issues and not other kinds of issues? --karl-- On 5/12/21 12:44 PM, Roberto Gaetano via At-Large wrote: Dear all, My personal opinion is that we would be wasting not just the money, but an opportunity to do something different, if we do more of the same on a larger scale - like reaching out more people from the same circles. So I fully agree with Evan. At the same time, I believe that Alx has a point when he calls for “a question whose answer is not yet known and is relevant to a decision to be made”. In summary, let’s think out of the box. And, last but not least, let’s define clearly what we want to achieve and develop some measures of success - this will be essential to show that the money has been well spent, and will make further requests for funding easier. Cheers, Roberto On 12.05.2021, at 20:34, Evan Leibovitch via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: I really, REALLY, encourage people to read the actual funding request before seeing the word "poll" and "At-Large" together and jumping to conclusions. The request is NOT for a survey of RALOs or ALSs or anyone else in the existing ICANN community. This request is for a form of R&D never before done by ALAC. It is explicitly designed to avoid the usual channels that have already been done, and to talk to the rest of the world outside the ICANN bubble -- the end-users that ALAC is bylaw-bound to speak for. We need to hear from people who have never even heard the terms "ICANN" or "DNS" or "Internet domain" -- let alone know what they are -- yet are deeply impacted by what goes on here. We don't need them to join an ALS or even care about ICANN, but we do need to know their opinions of how DNS policies and practises affect their use and trust of the Internet. The funding request identifies the flaws in surveys that have been done to date, and ideally would ask questions of random samples of people everywhere. In these cases the cost of the survey is very much determined by how spread it is. Given the amount of the funding at play we can't come close to "everywhere" so we need to work on what limited (but still random) scope will best provide useful analysis. If anyone here is aware of any studies such as Vanda suggests that could help this effort, now is the time to identify them. Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada @evanleibovitch / @el56 On Wed, 12 May 2021 at 12:49, Vanda Scartezini via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> wrote: Thanking to Leon to embrace such effort, I am the one encouraging this survey in all regions, worldwide survey. The cost of survey is not how spread it is, regional or universal to collect the data, but to build the right questions, analyze the answers and then present the statistically relevant data with a large annex with the methodology used for such analysis. And yes, depending on the data there are several studies we could use, or even just comparing with data we collect. Ralos can be used to spread the survey inside their regions. Hope we can do such survey. Vanda Scartezini Polo Consultores Associados Av. Paulista 1159, cj 1004 01311-200- Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Land Line: +55 11 3266.6253 Mobile: + 55 11 98181.1464 Sorry for any typos. From: At-Large <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> on behalf of 'At-Large Worldwide' <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> Reply-To: León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <leonfelipe@sanchez.mx<mailto:leonfelipe@sanchez.mx>> Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2021 at 13:21 To: Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org<mailto:evan@telly.org>> Cc: Greg Shatan <greg@isoc-ny.org<mailto:greg@isoc-ny.org>>, 'At-Large Worldwide' <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> Subject: Re: [At-Large] ICANN Funding Request FY22-05 Thanks Evan. Just confirming that I am following the discussion and that the project will have my support. I will try to encourage other Board colleagues to do the same. Kind regards, León El 11 may 2021, a las 10:05, Evan Leibovitch via At-Large <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> escribió: Does a global survey is more expensive in terms of bandwidth costs than a regional pilot? Really? Is "Does it cost more to do a global survey than a regional one?" a useful question? I would especially like to hear from those who helped support Jonathan in identifying the problem and making the original request. Responding that we need to have a strategic approach to determining what we want to learn from this effort, and then conducting the research based on that strategy, is rather stating the obvious at this point. The proposal is not final; it still needs to be approved by the Board. I encourage Leon and Avri to support, and even advocate this when it comes on their agenda. IMO this proposal is more than just a funded project; its approval would be an unprecedented level of confidence in At-Large's ability to engage in its own research, ask its own questions, and perform its own analysis. Personally I have always felt that this is the only form of "outreach" that actually helps ALAC to perform its bylaw mandate. If granted it will be vital to deliver something useful, even if limited in scope to accommodate the resources available. To everyone who is interested in contributing meaningfully to this effort -- assuming it is approved -- please start giving some thought to the strategy of what we want from this. Once there is consensus on that I think the questions will flow naturally. Also consider that, depending on what we want from this effort, some of the raw research may already exist and be available for purchase. We're not the only ones who want to know the utility, safety and reliability of methods of how the public finds content and services on the Internet. - Evan _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<http://atlarge.icann.org/> _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.