Danny, As usual, when you are short of arguments, you pull out your dogma of faith of the direct elections. But don't worry, if you are right, one day the enraged masses will rise, and deads will resurrect, and all will join in a triumphal march that will sweep the evil ICANN into the ocean. The power of the masses, once they have acquired consciousness, will overcome the forces of the imperialist capitalist pig and its lacqueys, and the world freedom will prevail. In the meantime, can we try to get something done, or shall we just sit and wait? Cheers, Roberto
-----Original Message----- From: alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:alac-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Danny Younger Sent: 22 May 2007 21:39 To: nick.ashton-hart@icann.org Cc: Luc Faubert; At-Large Worldwide; NA Discuss Subject: Re: [At-Large] [NA-Discuss] Reason for NO vote for TelecommunitiesCanada's ALS application
Nick,
Thank you for these questions. As my response is predicated on elements drawn from ICANN's history, allow me first to direct you to an historical overview penned by Bret Fausett entitled, "Captured: The sad, predictable story of ICANN's at-large membership" at http://www.ddj.com/dept/architect/184414542
My thoughts: From day one, the at-large was supposed to be about individuals that weren't otherwise represented within ICANN processes (individuals that would elect half of the ICANN Board so that the Special Interest elements would be properly balanced by the Public Interest elements).
What you and your peers now deem to be the "at-large" is a far cry from what was envisioned -- frankly, it's a perversion whose current incarnation neither represents nor advocates for the "real at-large" that at this moment is pounding away at ICANN's doors screaming for relief.
The construct that you have collectively assembled is nothing more than a collection of well-meaning civil society organizations that are just like the other well-meaning civil society organizations within the NCUC. They can pretend to be the at-large, but they are not. The real at-large (the mob out there with the pitchforks at hand) is livid over ICANN's handing of the Registerfly situation while your RALO organizations that pretend to be the at-large have given it narry a thought.
All that has been accomplished in this four-and-a-half-year-long-ALAC-exercise is splitting the Civil Society element into two parts while ensuring that that the individuals pounding at your doors continue to have no voting rights within any ICANN deliberative or policy-recommending organ.
Candidly, it matters little to me whether the RALO orgs merge with the NCUC orgs. In my view, neither set of orgs has done much of anything to protect the registrant interest. They're both just flip sides of the same coin.
--- Nick Ashton-Hart <nick.ashton-hart@icann.org> wrote:
Danny, a point on this subject, for my edification if it isn't too much trouble.
When the ICANN Bylaws refer to the NCUC in Article X, S5(1)(d), it states:
e. Non-Commercial Users (representing the full range of non-commercial entity users of the Internet
If one looks at the normal meaning of these words, I would take from it that the NCUC was designed to represent not individual Internet users, but non-commercial legally-constituted (or even not legally constituted) ENTITIES in a comprehensive way.
Of course, this would apply to NGOs, and could apply to any NGO, but was that the design of this constituency? I gather that the original idea was that this was for the universities where the Internet was once managed, and other organisations of that type.
This is of course not by way of saying that anyone should be excluded - on the contrary - just that it seems you are suggesting that we all blur the lines between individual Internet users' representatives (At-Large) and everyone else non-commercial (NCUC) very considerably. Is that actually beneficial? If you were to do that, then you would end up with duplicative structures, surely?
Or are you actually advocating that the two constituencies should be merged together?
I very much hope this does not launch a lot of disgruntlement or disagreeableness as that's far from the point (and I fail to see how it would actually bring much benefit) - I'm asking genuine questions here, not presuming the answers (I don't think).
On 22/05/07, Danny Younger <dannyyounger@yahoo.com> wrote:
So why not do the right thing and refer them instead to the Non-Commercial Users Constituency (NCUC)?
--- Luc Faubert <LFaubert@conceptum.ca> wrote:
Alan,
Thanks for you thorough reply. I appreciate.
From what I understand of the history behind the wording to the effect that orgs certified as ALSes should be user-driven, it was meant as a protection against lobbying groups. It would be a shame if this kept legitimate orgs of orgs out of the process, as these are sometimes the only orgs with the human resources to invest in the demanding task of following ICANN-related activites.
Let's hope ALAC can clear things up before long, as another org of orgs from Canada has applied for certification (Communautique, an org a bit like TC in French-speaking Québec).
Regards,
_________________________________________ Luc Faubert Conseiller en gouvernance TI et en gestion du changement / IT governance and change management consulting +1 514 236 5129 www.LucFaubert.com www.LucFaubert.com/blog www.isoc.qc.ca www.ccig.ca www.uqbm.qc.ca www.maillons.qc.ca
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