Carlton, you are as sane and clear eyed as you have always been. Yes, ICANN quacks like a regulatory body and walks like a regulatory body. (Which I guess means that ICANN is a duck?) I agree with you that ICANN regulates - it controls, allocates, revokes, and levies fees. It also shares some other attributes with regulatory bodies: It is effectively unavoidable and its decisions have ripples that go far beyond those whose actions are directly shaped by the body. As Even L. pointed out ICANN may have legal reasons to try to fend away the word "regulator". That's not surprising, but that kind of wordplay is approaching an exercise of Orwellian Newspeak. And it's nothing new to ICANN: back in year 2000 they tried to label a thing that was clearly an "election" as something else called a "selection" in an attempt to evade California laws regarding the obligations of non-profit/public benefit corporations. One has to wonder why are intelligent people so afraid to use a description that so clearly applies? Well, perhaps it is because there is fear of that word reviving a long unanswered question. As you mention, ICANN shapes internet domain name policies and economics, and even charges "fees" that everyone would agree would be called "taxes" if levied by a governmental body. A better way to put this is to say that ICANN restrains some trade and encourages other trade. I used that former phrase because it tends to raise the question of "what provides ICANN with immunity from anti-trust laws"? This paper from year 2003 still remains largely unanswered: http://osaka.law.miami.edu/~froomkin/articles/icann-antitrust.pdf By-the-way, with regard to the vistaprint TLD and the discussion of ICANN application fees - I went through the round a few years ago and did the better part of 100 applications, with each being an almost identical application with only a couple of pages of different marketing info. Yet we got hit with the full $185,000 charge for each one of those even though the review for each was essentially identical. It made me feel that as between ICANN and a highway robber saying "stand and deliver" that the latter was less blameworthy. --karl-- On 07/13/2018 05:44 PM, Carlton Samuels wrote:
It really isn't a personal opinion; the facts are undeniable by virtue of the admitted regulatory signs.
It is in ICANN's power to gift a resource, set the requirements by which one can be gifted, set the rules for use of resource, charge and punish violations of the rules as appropriate and exact a fee for gifting that resource. Anywhere else in Christendom and the known sensate world, those activities are the very definition of a regulator.
ICANN has managed to convince itself and would wish to make accommodating idiots of the rest of us because it is politically difficult to do otherwise. I get the politics of it. But to ask me to deny the evidence of my two lying eyes and what is plainly the case in reason and judgment is a bridge too far. The Christian bible has a line in it "in Christ all things are possible". I would add a caution to that declaration: Save and except to take me for an idiot.
-Carlton
============================== /Carlton A Samuels/ /Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround/ =============================
On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 4:13 PM Kan Kaili <kankaili@gmail.com <mailto:kankaili@gmail.com>> wrote:
Indeed Goran has said "ICANN is not a regulator" many times. I have heard him saying that myself. However, this is something I disagree with him.
Again, in my personal opinion, as long as the positioning of ICANN stays blurry as it is now, the confusion will only accumulate until it creats a crisis.
Kaili
----- Original Message ----- From: "Johan Helsingius" <julf@julf.com <mailto:julf@julf.com>> To: <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 8:33 PM Subject: Re: [At-Large] [lac-discuss-en] Vistaprint is abandoning .vista
> On 12-07-18 19:56, Kan Kaili wrote: >> In my opinion, ICANN should play the role of a regulator. > > Our esteemed CEO, Göran Marby, has a number of phrases he repeats > fairly often. "ICANN is not a regulator" is one of them. > > Julf > > _______________________________________________ > At-Large mailing list > At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org