John Do you have a link to this analysis you've initiated? I don't know what ICANN understands whether that be the staff bit of the corporation or the supporting organisations such as ALAC. But starting with good data seems the right approach thanks Christian John McCormac via At-Large <at-large@icann.org> writes:
On 20/05/2025 15:11, Antony Van Couvering via At-Large wrote:
ALAC doesn’t know its power because it has never tested its power. To date, it has politely stayed in its lane. Why is this? Surely the conscience of the organization, as I’ve seen ALAC described on this list, should be showing the board and the staff their failings in stark terms, and challenging them to do better, nagging them constantly, as consciences do. Consciences are not polite. I am reminded of the joke about the politician who struggled with his conscience: he won. But at least he had to struggle.
There seems to be a bit of a disconnect between ICANN management and the industry despite the best efforts of ICANN staff and ALAC.
A few weeks ago, I only found out that the economist that ICANN had hired had left ICANN in July 2024. There had been no accouncement or no indication that he had been replaced. Given that the new round of gTLDs is coming up, having someone with a clue about Economics might be necessary after the 30 million domain name first year expectation of ICANN for the 2012 round.
I also e-mailed two ICANN OCTO people about Domain Metrica and its lack of historical depth. During one of the many Covid lockdowns, I was bored and decided to make sense of the ICANN registry reports back to 2001. The quality of the registry reports published by ICANN was not consistent (different formats, missing IANA-ID numbers, text, Excel spreadsheets printed as PDFs etc.) Despite that, it was possible to build a table of all gTLD and registars data back to 2001. That's historical depth. To date, the ICANN OCTO people haven't even replied.
One of the issues that has come up again and again in the At Large/CPWG discussions is the importance of resellers in the market. Despite ICANN paying lip service to the reseller issue, to be diplomatic about it, ICANN really doesn't understand the whole registry-registrar-reseller model.
Every month, I publish the HosterStats Registrars and Resellers report that covers the gTLD market by registrars and resellers with their gTLD domain name counts and their monthly transactions. (95% of the gTLD market is handled by approximately 7K brands. There are more drop catcher registrars than retail registrars.)
The ICANN registry-registrar model was great for the 1990s but it has not evolved. The standard upgrade path of web developer - web hoster - ICANN registrar no longer exists in the same way as it did in the early 2000s. What is happening now is that the upgrade path is web developer - web hoster - ccTLD registrar. The ccTLDs, as they develop, are overtaking the gTLDs in their home markets and the legacy gTLDs are becoming less relevant.
The reseller market is *the* market in many countries with no accredited ICANN registrars because many web hosters in these countries outsource their registration activity to ICANN registrars in other countries. Some countries have more hosted gTLD domain names in other countries than their own country. Some of the ICANN commissioned reports (MEAC/LAC/Africa) completely missed this because the data and patterns are so hard to measure and the domain names of these countries are often not hosted in the country or even in the same ICANN region. The GDPR appeasement and the banjaxing of WHOIS hasn't helped either.
Despite the whole DEI thing and the aspirations about developing countries, the local infrastructure either isn't well developed or the local web hosting industries have gone off and focused on their ccTLDs at the expense of the gTLDs.
Some countries have less than 100 (that's not a typo) gTLD websites hosted. Every month I run a survey of all gTLD websites and some ccTLDs (over 250 million domain names including some ccTLDs) and break down the results by country and by web hosting provider. To date, the gTLD web hosting providers for just 1.27% of gTLD websites are pending identification.
While ALAC does a lot of good work, the reality is that it is a very complex landscape of bungalows and skyscrapers. ICANN doesn't seem to understand it. ALAC barely understands it. And the market seems to be moving away from the gTLDs and thus away from ICANN.
Most gTLD websites are hosted on US IP space. Hong Kong hosts more gTLD websites than the rest of China. That's partially a story abour RIRs that has gone largely unnoticed by ALAC. ICANN did have some people watching the outcome of that. Many of China's websites are hosted in US IP space. All this goes largely unnoticed by ALAC.
DEI, and the editing of ICANN policy documents, is the least of ALAC's problems. But it does provide a bread and circuses effect. It won't change the gap between the Internet infrastructure of the developing countries compared to developed countries. How can ALAC change that?
Regards...jmcc
On May 20, 2025, at 6:27 AM, Glenn McKnight <mcknight.glenn@gmail.com> wrote:
I think we have a range of opinions on ICANN as to its efforts of promoting DEI and a stalwart for multistakeholderism. The critics are quick to point out ICANN's whitewashing and tokenism vs the potential to become truly a bottom up organization. Beyond the ethnic and geographical representation, we have huge swaths of underrepresented groups ie. Under 18 year olds, seniors, people of poverty and Persons with Disabilities, First Nations etc etc . We have to ask ourselves honestly Is Atlarge enabling ICANN to achieve its mission? or we are just patsies for a closed and self serving group. Perhaps a bit of both . G Glenn McKnight, MA Virtual School of Internet Governance Chief Information Officer www.virtualsig.org <http://www.virtualsig.org/> *YOUR SOURCE FOR INTERNET GOVERNANCE EDUCATION * *Mobile 437-237-4655*
On Tue, 20 May 2025 at 09:15, Christian de Larrinaga via At-Large <at- large@icann.org <mailto:at-large@icann.org>> wrote:
puff puff from all directions. This really is a land of the magic dragons C
Antony Van Couvering <avc@avc.vc <mailto:avc@avc.vc>> writes:
> One meaningless non-statement by ICANN has inspired people on this list to make long posts about principles. > > Meanwhile others (or maybe the same ones) are working diligently on > NomCom to find yet more go-along, get-along board members to > rubber-stamp ICANN staff decisions. > > You’ll know you’re getting somewhere when ICANN starts threatening > your funding. So long as you have pleasant staff members > “co-ordinating” and “assisting” activities and meetings with a smile, > you know ICANN is happy with what you do. In the meantime, you can > expect more betrayals, because strong statements about principles on > the At-Large listserv are like trying to blow over windmills with > gusts of air. > > How about a demand from ALAC that the CEO or (gasp!) the General Counsel must go? > > At least they’d read it. > >> On May 20, 2025, at 02:24, Christian de Larrinaga via At-Large <at-large@icann.org <mailto:at-large@icann.org>> wrote: >> >> >> >> Karl Auerbach via At-Large <at-large@icann.org <mailto:at- large@icann.org>> writes: >> >>>> On 5/19/25 5:21 AM, Lutz Donnerhacke via At-Large wrote: >>>> https://domainincite.com/31049-icann-kills-off-diversity-and- inclusion <https://domainincite.com/31049-icann-kills-off- diversity-and-inclusion> >>>> It's a pity. >>> >>> More than a pity. ICANN's footprint is worldwide. Yet here is ICANN >>> dancing to a foul tune of hate, bias, and discrimination being played >>> by exactly one of the more than 150 national governments. >>> >>> That might make those other countries wonder "what tune can our >>> country play to make ICANN dance to our policy whims?" >>> >>> And it might add to the skepticism of people in those other countries >>> who wonder whether ICANN is really an aspect of US hegemony. >>> >>> The process of fracturing the Internet into regional, cultural, >>> religious, or corporate internets is slow - but this move by ICANN is, >>> in my eyes, a big wedge and sledge that significantly weakens the >>> bonds that hold ICANN and the Internet together. >>> >>> One might ask "Who in ICANN decided on this change?" And "why?". >>> >>> --karl-- >> >> >> ICANN is a US corporation (Californian isn't it still)? So it can't be >> surprising that the local political sphere creates waves within it. >> >> There was a sort of conceit that its legal jurisdiction as a US (nfp!) >> corporation is a good thing as it provides a sound legal framework that >> ensures that the global communities trying to achieve consensus over >> managing UIRs can do so separately to the exigencies and needs of US >> jurisdiction of ICANN under US jurisdiction. >> >> Too many now working through ICANN let alone at ICANN treat ICANN as the >> voice of the community rather than a disposable shell whose only remit >> and purpose is to serve the myriad communities around the world who >> deploy UIRs to manage and serve Internet user experiences. >> >> Rather important I think that the reaction to this is that those global >> communities stop being mesmerised by ICANN as a corporate body and >> instead focus on what they really need to achieve to ensure the Internet >> is for everyone. If ICANN fits a purpose to serve that then >> wonderful. If things have moved on then those functions can be handled >> in other ways and in alternative structures. >> >> I don't see this wording change as so significant as to require a >> rewrite of ICANN today but also I don't see Internet fragmentation as a >> function of diversity of management organisations of UIRs rather the >> contrary as a reaction to over centralisation. >> >> >> >> -- >> Christian de Larrinaga >> _______________________________________________ >> At-Large mailing list -- at-large@icann.org <mailto:at- large@icann.org> >> To unsubscribe send an email to at-large-leave@icann.org <mailto:at-large-leave@icann.org> >> >> At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org <http:// atlarge.icann.org/> >> _______________________________________________ >> By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of >> your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list >> accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy >> (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy <https://www.icann.org/ privacy/policy>) and the website Terms of >> Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos <https:// www.icann.org/privacy/tos>). You can visit the >> Mailman link above to change your membership status or >> configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style >> delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), >> and so on.
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-- Christian de Larrinaga