GAC Recommendations for WHOIS Studies
http://www.icann.org/correspondence/karlins-to-thrush-16apr08.pdf The GAC has put forward 15+ topics related to WHOIS that they believe should be studied. The GNSO WG that is focused on the same topic will tender its own recommendations on 22 May. On the GNSO WG are three at-large participants (myself, Beau Brendler, Wendy Seltzer) that could benefit from your input. If you believe that certain studies are warranted, please tell us and offer up your particular recommendations. If you believe that further studies are nothing more than a stalling tactic being exploited by certain constituencies to hamper privacy initiatives and that no more studies are actually warranted, feel free to tell us that as well. Whatever your views, we will be happy to convey them. If you would like to communicate your thoughts directly to your GAC representative, contact details are here: http://gac.icann.org/web/contact/reps/index.shtml If you would like to formulate WHOIS policy, please join the ALAC WHOIS WG -- signup details at http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/whois-wg_atlarge-lists.icann... ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
On 25 Apr 2008, at 00:41, Danny Younger wrote:
Whatever your views, we will be happy to convey them.
If you would like to communicate your thoughts directly to your GAC representative, contact details are here: http://gac.icann.org/web/contact/reps/index.shtml
There isn't an Irish rep :(
If you would like to formulate WHOIS policy, please join the ALAC WHOIS WG -- signup details at http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/whois-wg_atlarge-lists.icann...
Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection http://www.blacknight.com/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
Danny, I read the document and it is not clear for me whether these studies are relevant or not as they relate to "legitimate uses". Who decides what uses are legitimate? The all issue may come from that point. If ICANN was to decide, the studies would make sense to me, but is ICANN really in charge? Fatimata On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 7:41 PM, Danny Younger <dannyyounger@yahoo.com> wrote:
http://www.icann.org/correspondence/karlins-to-thrush-16apr08.pdf
The GAC has put forward 15+ topics related to WHOIS that they believe should be studied. The GNSO WG that is focused on the same topic will tender its own recommendations on 22 May. On the GNSO WG are three at-large participants (myself, Beau Brendler, Wendy Seltzer) that could benefit from your input.
If you believe that certain studies are warranted, please tell us and offer up your particular recommendations. If you believe that further studies are nothing more than a stalling tactic being exploited by certain constituencies to hamper privacy initiatives and that no more studies are actually warranted, feel free to tell us that as well.
Whatever your views, we will be happy to convey them.
If you would like to communicate your thoughts directly to your GAC representative, contact details are here: http://gac.icann.org/web/contact/reps/index.shtml
If you would like to formulate WHOIS policy, please join the ALAC WHOIS WG -- signup details at http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/whois-wg_atlarge-lists.icann...
____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
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Hi Fatimata, Re: "Who decides what uses are legitimate?" ICANN, by way of of Consensus Policy recommendations from the GNSO Council, decides what uses are legitimate. The last such decision was ratified in March 2003 by the Board (with implementation delayed until August 2004) and took the form of the "WHOIS Marketing Restriction Policy" which can be found here: http://www.icann.org/registrars/wmrp.htm The issue being dealt with concerned the uses of BULK Whois data -- anyone may currently purchase BULK Whois data from a registrar (with annual fees for such data access limited to a $10,000 cap), or from a registry. Just by way of example, during the month of December 2007 VeriSign issued 1,781 passwords for third party bulk access to the .com zone file. Per the policy, those third parties that access the data are not to use the data to allow, enable, or otherwise support any marketing activities. At issue, of course, is whether ICANN's compliance Department actually audits such usage (probably not) and whether it has the tools to enforce the written policy (it doesn't). PS. It might well be the case that such data sales (which include private data) are unlawful in the EU and in other jurisdictions, but I will leave it to others to expand upon this point. regards, Danny --- Fatimata Seye Sylla <fsylla@gmail.com> wrote:
Danny,
I read the document and it is not clear for me whether these studies are relevant or not as they relate to "legitimate uses". Who decides what uses are legitimate? The all issue may come from that point. If ICANN was to decide, the studies would make sense to me, but is ICANN really in charge?
Fatimata
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 7:41 PM, Danny Younger <dannyyounger@yahoo.com> wrote:
http://www.icann.org/correspondence/karlins-to-thrush-16apr08.pdf
The GAC has put forward 15+ topics related to
WHOIS
that they believe should be studied. The GNSO WG that is focused on the same topic will tender its own recommendations on 22 May. On the GNSO WG are three at-large participants (myself, Beau Brendler, Wendy Seltzer) that could benefit from your input.
If you believe that certain studies are warranted, please tell us and offer up your particular recommendations. If you believe that further studies are nothing more than a stalling tactic being exploited by certain constituencies to hamper privacy initiatives and that no more studies are actually warranted, feel free to tell us that as well.
Whatever your views, we will be happy to convey them.
If you would like to communicate your thoughts directly to your GAC representative, contact details are here: http://gac.icann.org/web/contact/reps/index.shtml
If you would like to formulate WHOIS policy, please join the ALAC WHOIS WG -- signup details at
http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/whois-wg_atlarge-lists.icann...
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
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-- Fatimata Seye Sylla Presidente Bokk Jang Bokk Jeff Coordonnatrice ACSIS - Senegal BP : 22336 Dakar Senegal Tel : 221 33 864 4284 / 1301 552 8282 / 1 301 941 1288 email : fsylla@gmail.com fsylla@orange.sn
____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Thank you very much Danny. Then following your statement below "At issue, of course, is whether ICANN's compliance Department actually audits such usage (probably not) and whether it has the tools to enforce the written policy (it doesn't)." I think it will be very useful to undertake such studies towards an implementation mechanism to systematically audit uses and take action when appropriate. Best, Fatimata On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 7:54 AM, Danny Younger <dannyyounger@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Fatimata,
Re: "Who decides what uses are legitimate?"
ICANN, by way of of Consensus Policy recommendations from the GNSO Council, decides what uses are legitimate. The last such decision was ratified in March 2003 by the Board (with implementation delayed until August 2004) and took the form of the "WHOIS Marketing Restriction Policy" which can be found here: http://www.icann.org/registrars/wmrp.htm
The issue being dealt with concerned the uses of BULK Whois data -- anyone may currently purchase BULK Whois data from a registrar (with annual fees for such data access limited to a $10,000 cap), or from a registry. Just by way of example, during the month of December 2007 VeriSign issued 1,781 passwords for third party bulk access to the .com zone file.
Per the policy, those third parties that access the data are not to use the data to allow, enable, or otherwise support any marketing activities. At issue, of course, is whether ICANN's compliance Department actually audits such usage (probably not) and whether it has the tools to enforce the written policy (it doesn't).
PS. It might well be the case that such data sales (which include private data) are unlawful in the EU and in other jurisdictions, but I will leave it to others to expand upon this point.
regards, Danny
--- Fatimata Seye Sylla <fsylla@gmail.com> wrote:
Danny,
I read the document and it is not clear for me whether these studies are relevant or not as they relate to "legitimate uses". Who decides what uses are legitimate? The all issue may come from that point. If ICANN was to decide, the studies would make sense to me, but is ICANN really in charge?
Fatimata
On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 7:41 PM, Danny Younger <dannyyounger@yahoo.com> wrote:
http://www.icann.org/correspondence/karlins-to-thrush-16apr08.pdf
The GAC has put forward 15+ topics related to
WHOIS
that they believe should be studied. The GNSO WG that is focused on the same topic will tender its own recommendations on 22 May. On the GNSO WG are three at-large participants (myself, Beau Brendler, Wendy Seltzer) that could benefit from your input.
If you believe that certain studies are warranted, please tell us and offer up your particular recommendations. If you believe that further studies are nothing more than a stalling tactic being exploited by certain constituencies to hamper privacy initiatives and that no more studies are actually warranted, feel free to tell us that as well.
Whatever your views, we will be happy to convey them.
If you would like to communicate your thoughts directly to your GAC representative, contact details are here: http://gac.icann.org/web/contact/reps/index.shtml
If you would like to formulate WHOIS policy, please join the ALAC WHOIS WG -- signup details at
http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/whois-wg_atlarge-lists.icann...
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
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http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge-lists.icann.org
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
-- Fatimata Seye Sylla Presidente Bokk Jang Bokk Jeff Coordonnatrice ACSIS - Senegal BP : 22336 Dakar Senegal Tel : 221 33 864 4284 / 1301 552 8282 / 1 301 941 1288 email : fsylla@gmail.com fsylla@orange.sn
____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
-- Fatimata Seye Sylla Presidente Bokk Jang Bokk Jeff Coordonnatrice ACSIS - Senegal BP : 22336 Dakar Senegal Tel : 221 33 864 4284 / 1301 552 8282 / 1 301 941 1288 email : fsylla@gmail.com fsylla@orange.sn
Danny Younger wrote:
The issue being dealt with concerned the uses of BULK Whois data -- anyone may currently purchase BULK Whois data from a registrar (with annual fees for such data access limited to a $10,000 cap), or from a registry. Just by way of example, during the month of December 2007 VeriSign issued 1,781 passwords for third party bulk access to the .com zone file.
Verisign's zone file access program and the registrar bulk whois access program are administered under different policies. This is important to note because the data being accessed in both cases is extremely different. The zone file does not contain any personally identifiable information whereas the whois does. There are not 1,781 users of the bulk whois program across all registrars. I would be shocked to find that there were more than 20 unique users. /ross
Verisign's zone file access program and the registrar bulk whois access program are administered under different policies. This is important to note because the data being accessed in both cases is extremely different.
It's true. I'm one of the 1,781 people with zone file passwords, and can confirm that all I get is a listing of domain names and name servers. On the other hand, I am sure that some of the 15 or however many bulk WHOIS users are grossly violating the terms of service, and have a pile of credit card and other solicitations snail mailed to names that appear only in WHOIS to prove it. Ross, do registrars have to apply for bulk WHOIS, or do they get access automatically? I'm particularly thinking of DROA/DROC who has sent me a separate pile of fake renewal invoices. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Information Superhighwayman wanna-be, http://www.johnlevine.com, ex-Mayor "More Wiener schnitzel, please", said Tom, revealingly.
John Levine wrote:
Ross, do registrars have to apply for bulk WHOIS, or do they get access automatically? I'm particularly thinking of DROA/DROC who has sent me a separate pile of fake renewal invoices.
Registrars apply separately. I do not believe that DROA/DROC currently has a license with any registrar to use this data, but I could be wrong in this. They do not have a license to use Tucows/IYD data and would therefore have to obtained access to this data through other means - i.e. scraping the public interfaces, purchasing an unlicensed copy from someone who has done the same or some other mechanism that I'm not aware of. Slamming is a big problem that the public whois access program exacerbates. /ross
On 29 Apr 2008, at 15:33, Ross Rader wrote:
John Levine wrote:
Ross, do registrars have to apply for bulk WHOIS, or do they get access automatically? I'm particularly thinking of DROA/DROC who has sent me a separate pile of fake renewal invoices.
Registrars apply separately. I do not believe that DROA/DROC currently has a license with any registrar to use this data, but I could be wrong in this. They do not have a license to use Tucows/IYD data and would therefore have to obtained access to this data through other means - i.e. scraping the public interfaces, purchasing an unlicensed copy from someone who has done the same or some other mechanism that I'm not aware of.
Slamming is a big problem that the public whois access program exacerbates.
Unfortunately it's not restricted to Gtld whois data either :( There have been several cases of ccTLD domain holders being targetted over the past couple of years Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection http://www.blacknight.com/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763 ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
For me - the issue has been studied to death. Any further studies are a stalling tactic Either set a deadline, or get rid of it. regards Robert On 24-Apr-08, at 7:41 PM, Danny Younger wrote:
http://www.icann.org/correspondence/karlins-to-thrush-16apr08.pdf
The GAC has put forward 15+ topics related to WHOIS that they believe should be studied. The GNSO WG that is focused on the same topic will tender its own recommendations on 22 May. On the GNSO WG are three at-large participants (myself, Beau Brendler, Wendy Seltzer) that could benefit from your input.
If you believe that certain studies are warranted, please tell us and offer up your particular recommendations. If you believe that further studies are nothing more than a stalling tactic being exploited by certain constituencies to hamper privacy initiatives and that no more studies are actually warranted, feel free to tell us that as well.
Whatever your views, we will be happy to convey them.
If you would like to communicate your thoughts directly to your GAC representative, contact details are here: http://gac.icann.org/web/contact/reps/index.shtml
If you would like to formulate WHOIS policy, please join the ALAC WHOIS WG -- signup details at http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/whois-wg_atlarge-lists.icann...
____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
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participants (6)
-
Danny Younger -
Fatimata Seye Sylla -
John Levine -
Michele Neylon -
Robert Guerra -
Ross Rader