Respectful Online Communication and Behavior
Dear ICANN Community Leaders and Members: ICANN's Ombudsman, Frank Fowlie, recently posted a web page on Respectful Online Communication and Behavior: <http://icann.org/ombudsman/respectful-communication-en.htm>. This page emphasizes the importance of respectful communication in ICANN, particularly in this phase of its development as an international organization: "Members of the community are asked to bear in mind that fellow community members, volunteers, stakeholders, and staff members are all deserving of considerate treatment. Members of the community are asked to bear in mind that the diversity of thought, and diversity of participants, in this unique - bottom up - consensus driven - multilingual and multicultural organization is ICANN’s strength." ICANN's Standard of Behaviour also can be found on this page, and is included below for easy reference. I know some community leaders are discussing how to further encourage and enforce these standards within their community. Please don't hesitate to contact ICANN Staff if there is anything we can do to assist with this endeavor. Regards, Denise Denise Michel ICANN Vice President Policy Development policy-staff@icann.org *ICANN EXPECTED STANDARDS OF BEHAVIOR* "Those who take part in ICANN multi-stakeholder process including Board, staff and all those involved in Supporting Organization and Advisory Committee councils undertake to: Act in accordance with ICANN's Bylaws. In particular, participants undertake to act within the mission of ICANN and in the spirit of the values contained in the Bylaws. Adhere to the conflict of interest policy laid out in the Bylaws. Treat all members of the ICANN community equally, irrespective of nationality, gender, racial or ethnic origin, religion or beliefs, disability, age, or sexual orientation; members of the ICANN community should treat each other with civility both face to face and online. Act in a reasonable and informed manner when participating in policy development and decision-making processes. This includes regularly attending all scheduled meetings and exercising independent judgment based solely on what is in the overall best interest of Internet users and the stability and security of the Internet's system of unique identifiers, irrespective of personal interests and the interests of the entity to which an individual might owe their appointment. Listen to the views of all stakeholders when considering policy issues. ICANN is a unique multi-stakeholder environment. Those who take part in the ICANN process must acknowledge the importance of all stakeholders and seek to understand their points of view. Work to build consensus with other stakeholders in order to find solutions to the issues that fall within the areas of ICANN's responsibility. The ICANN model is based on a bottom-up, consensus driven approach to policy development. Those who take part in the ICANN process must take responsibility for ensuring the success of the model by trying to build consensus with other participants. Act in accordance with ICANN policies. Protect the organization's assets and ensure their efficient and effective use. Act fairly and in good faith with other participants in the ICANN process."
ICANN's Ombudsman, Frank Fowlie, recently posted a web page on Respectful Online Communication and Behavior
I must say that I found that to be a rather strange document. It posits ICANN as some fantasy world in which disinterested philosophers discuss and debate. That is in hard conflict with the reality of ICANN as a political cauldron in which deeply antagonistic interests contest with one another for power and profit. Many actors within ICANN could be in violation of the ethical requirements of their professions were they to trim the sails of their advocacy on behalf of their clients to conform with that document. --karl--
Dear Karl: Yes, this document sounds to me some (at least) "naive". Specialy at this moment of ICANN history. When I decided reply this, for an instant I thought to say respectfully another strong word, but then I thought in the diversity and cultures and point of view different. In my oppinion we need to see the reality and say in a clear manner how is it. whatever being the words uses. greetings Carlos Dionisio Aguirreabogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar http://ar.ageiadensi.org
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 04:18:38 -0700 From: karl@cavebear.com To: at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org CC: avri@acm.org; janis.karklins@icann.org; council@gnso.icann.org; ccnso-council@icann.org; louie@equinix.com; ceo@auda.org.au; cgomes@verisign.com; jun@wide.ad.jp; steve@shinkuro.com; frank.fowlie@icann.org; liaison6c@gnso.icann.org; policy@icann.org Subject: Re: [At-Large] Respectful Online Communication and Behavior
ICANN's Ombudsman, Frank Fowlie, recently posted a web page on Respectful Online Communication and Behavior
I must say that I found that to be a rather strange document.
It posits ICANN as some fantasy world in which disinterested philosophers discuss and debate.
That is in hard conflict with the reality of ICANN as a political cauldron in which deeply antagonistic interests contest with one another for power and profit.
Many actors within ICANN could be in violation of the ethical requirements of their professions were they to trim the sails of their advocacy on behalf of their clients to conform with that document.
--karl--
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To Karl and Carlos, I don't believe that there is anything strange or naïve in the expectation that participants in an organization which represents a global community would conduct themselves at a level of discourse and behaviour that includes respectful communication. This is an international forum for debate and discussion, and while no one has the reasonable expectation of Platonic debate, neither do participants want to be involved in name calling and behaviours which more closely resemble a school yard at recess than an international cooperative effort. There is no proposal that any party not vigorously pursue the advocacy of their own position, only that they do so in a manner that is respectful of others. Dr. Frank Fowlie, DCR Ombudsman The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) 4676 Admiralty Way, Suite 330 Marina del Rey California, USA, 90292 tel: +310-823-9358 fax: +310-823-8649 www.icannombudsman.org The Values of this Office are: -Respect for Diversity; -Excellence in Ombudsmanship; -Professionalism; -Confidentiality; -Impartiality; -and Independence. ________________________________ From: carlos aguirre Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 06:56:42 -0700 To: At-Large Worldwide<at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: RE: [At-Large] Respectful Online Communication and Behavior Dear Karl: Yes, this document sounds to me some (at least) "naive". Specialy at this moment of ICANN history. When I decided reply this, for an instant I thought to say respectfully another strong word, but then I thought in the diversity and cultures and point of view different. In my oppinion we need to see the reality and say in a clear manner how is it. whatever being the words uses. greetings Carlos Dionisio Aguirre abogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar<http://www.sitioderecho.com.ar/> http://ar.ageiadensi.org<http://www.densi.com.ar/>
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 04:18:38 -0700 From: karl@cavebear.com To: at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org CC: avri@acm.org; janis.karklins@icann.org; council@gnso.icann.org; ccnso-council@icann.org; louie@equinix.com; ceo@auda.org.au; cgomes@verisign.com; jun@wide.ad.jp; steve@shinkuro.com; frank.fowlie@icann.org; liaison6c@gnso.icann.org; policy@icann.org Subject: Re: [At-Large] Respectful Online Communication and Behavior
ICANN's Ombudsman, Frank Fowlie, recently posted a web page on Respectful Online Communication and Behavior
I must say that I found that to be a rather strange document.
It posits ICANN as some fantasy world in which disinterested philosophers discuss and debate.
That is in hard conflict with the reality of ICANN as a political cauldron in which deeply antagonistic interests contest with one another for power and profit.
Many actors within ICANN could be in violation of the ethical requirements of their professions were they to trim the sails of their advocacy on behalf of their clients to conform with that document.
--karl--
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At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
________________________________ ¡Es hora que descubras quién sos! Alguien puede conocerte mejor que vos mismo.<http://www.descubrewindowslive.com/>
During the development of the Internet protocols, implementers adopted the following practice, which is fondly referred to as Postel's robustness principle: "Be conservative in what you send and be liberal in what you accept" It may be naïve to conclude that we should aspire to the same goals in personal correspondence as we have in protocol implementation but surely we can try. On 5/12/09 4:22 PM May 12, 2009, "Frank Fowlie" <frank.fowlie@icann.org> wrote:
To Karl and Carlos,I don't believe that there is anything strange or naïve in the expectation that participants in an organization which represents a global community would conduct themselves at a level of discourse and behaviour that includes respectful communication. This is an international forum for debate and discussion, and while no one has the reasonable expectation of Platonic debate, neither do participants want to be involved in name calling and behaviours which more closely resemble a school yard at recess than an international cooperative effort. There is no proposal that any party not vigorously pursue the advocacy of their own position, only that they do so in a manner that is respectful of others.
Dr. Frank Fowlie, DCROmbudsman The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) 4676 Admiralty Way, Suite 330 Marina del Rey California, USA, 90292 tel: +310-823-9358 fax: +310-823-8649 www.icannombudsman.orgThe Values of this Office are: -Respect for Diversity; -Excellence in Ombudsmanship; -Professionalism; -Confidentiality; -Impartiality; -and Independence.
From: carlos aguirre Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 06:56:42 -0700 To: At-Large Worldwide<at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: RE: [At-Large] Respectful Online Communication and Behavior Dear Karl:
Yes, this document sounds to me some (at least) "naive". Specialy at this moment of ICANN history.
When I decided reply this, for an instant I thought to say respectfully another strong word, but then I thought in the diversity and cultures and point of view different.
In my oppinion we need to see the reality and say in a clear manner how is it. whatever being the words uses.
greetings
Carlos Dionisio Aguirre abogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar <http://www.sitioderecho.com.ar/> http://ar.ageiadensi.org <http://www.densi.com.ar/>
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 04:18:38 -0700 From: karl@cavebear.com To: at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org CC: avri@acm.org; janis.karklins@icann.org; council@gnso.icann.org; ccnso-council@icann.org; louie@equinix.com; ceo@auda.org.au; cgomes@verisign.com; jun@wide.ad.jp; steve@shinkuro.com; frank.fowlie@icann.org; liaison6c@gnso.icann.org; policy@icann.org Subject: Re: [At-Large] Respectful Online Communication and Behavior
ICANN's Ombudsman, Frank Fowlie, recently posted a web page on Respectful Online Communication and Behavior
I must say that I found that to be a rather strange document.
It posits ICANN as some fantasy world in which disinterested philosophers discuss and debate.
That is in hard conflict with the reality of ICANN as a political cauldron in which deeply antagonistic interests contest with one another for power and profit.
Many actors within ICANN could be in violation of the ethical requirements of their professions were they to trim the sails of their advocacy on behalf of their clients to conform with that document.
--karl--
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At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
¡Es hora que descubras quién sos! Alguien puede conocerte mejor que vos mismo. <http://www.descubrewindowslive.com/>
Very good approach! Vanda Scartezini POLO Consultores Associados & IT Trend Alameda Santos 1470 cjs 1407/8 01418-903 Sao Paulo,SP. Fone + 55 11 3266.6253 Mob + 5511 8181.1464 -----Original Message----- From: at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Dave Piscitello Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 11:58 AM To: Frank Fowlie; carlos aguirre; At-Large Worldwide Cc: avri@acm.org; council@gnso.icann.org; ccnso-council@icann.org; louie@equinix.com; Disspain; janis.karklins@icann.org; jun@wide.ad.jp; Chris@mx.uol.com.br; Steve Crocker; Charles A. (Chuck) Gomes; liaison6c@gnso.icann.org; policy@icann.org Subject: Re: [At-Large] [policy] Re: Respectful Online Communication and Behavior During the development of the Internet protocols, implementers adopted the following practice, which is fondly referred to as Postel's robustness principle: "Be conservative in what you send and be liberal in what you accept" It may be naïve to conclude that we should aspire to the same goals in personal correspondence as we have in protocol implementation but surely we can try. On 5/12/09 4:22 PM May 12, 2009, "Frank Fowlie" <frank.fowlie@icann.org> wrote:
To Karl and Carlos,I don't believe that there is anything strange or naïve in the expectation that participants in an organization which represents a global community would conduct themselves at a level of discourse and behaviour that includes respectful communication. This is an international forum for debate and discussion, and while no one has the reasonable expectation of Platonic debate, neither do participants want to be involved in name calling and behaviours which more closely resemble a school yard at recess than an international cooperative effort. There is no proposal that any party not vigorously pursue the advocacy of their own position, only that they do so in a manner that is respectful of others.
Dr. Frank Fowlie, DCROmbudsman The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) 4676 Admiralty Way, Suite 330 Marina del Rey California, USA, 90292 tel: +310-823-9358 fax: +310-823-8649 www.icannombudsman.orgThe Values of this Office are: -Respect for Diversity; -Excellence in Ombudsmanship; -Professionalism; -Confidentiality; -Impartiality; -and Independence.
From: carlos aguirre Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 06:56:42 -0700 To: At-Large Worldwide<at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: RE: [At-Large] Respectful Online Communication and Behavior Dear Karl:
Yes, this document sounds to me some (at least) "naive". Specialy at this moment of ICANN history.
When I decided reply this, for an instant I thought to say respectfully another strong word, but then I thought in the diversity and cultures and point of view different.
In my oppinion we need to see the reality and say in a clear manner how is it. whatever being the words uses.
greetings
Carlos Dionisio Aguirre abogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar <http://www.sitioderecho.com.ar/> http://ar.ageiadensi.org <http://www.densi.com.ar/>
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 04:18:38 -0700 From: karl@cavebear.com To: at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org CC: avri@acm.org; janis.karklins@icann.org; council@gnso.icann.org; ccnso-council@icann.org; louie@equinix.com; ceo@auda.org.au; cgomes@verisign.com; jun@wide.ad.jp; steve@shinkuro.com; frank.fowlie@icann.org; liaison6c@gnso.icann.org; policy@icann.org Subject: Re: [At-Large] Respectful Online Communication and Behavior
ICANN's Ombudsman, Frank Fowlie, recently posted a web page on Respectful Online Communication and Behavior
I must say that I found that to be a rather strange document.
It posits ICANN as some fantasy world in which disinterested philosophers discuss and debate.
That is in hard conflict with the reality of ICANN as a political cauldron in which deeply antagonistic interests contest with one another for power and profit.
Many actors within ICANN could be in violation of the ethical requirements of their professions were they to trim the sails of their advocacy on behalf of their clients to conform with that document.
--karl--
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http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.icann .
org
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
¡Es hora que descubras quién sos! Alguien puede conocerte mejor que vos mismo. <http://www.descubrewindowslive.com/>
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.icann .org At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
Yep - well said - in a more concise way than the Ombudsman's page... :-) Jacqueline Dave Piscitello wrote:
During the development of the Internet protocols, implementers adopted the following practice, which is fondly referred to as Postel's robustness principle:
"Be conservative in what you send and be liberal in what you accept"
It may be naïve to conclude that we should aspire to the same goals in personal correspondence as we have in protocol implementation but surely we can try.
On 5/12/09 4:22 PM May 12, 2009, "Frank Fowlie" <frank.fowlie@icann.org> wrote:
To Karl and Carlos,I don't believe that there is anything strange or naïve in the expectation that participants in an organization which represents a global community would conduct themselves at a level of discourse and behaviour that includes respectful communication. This is an international forum for debate and discussion, and while no one has the reasonable expectation of Platonic debate, neither do participants want to be involved in name calling and behaviours which more closely resemble a school yard at recess than an international cooperative effort. There is no proposal that any party not vigorously pursue the advocacy of their own position, only that they do so in a manner that is respectful of others.
Dr. Frank Fowlie, DCROmbudsman The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) 4676 Admiralty Way, Suite 330 Marina del Rey California, USA, 90292 tel: +310-823-9358 fax: +310-823-8649 www.icannombudsman.orgThe Values of this Office are: -Respect for Diversity; -Excellence in Ombudsmanship; -Professionalism; -Confidentiality; -Impartiality; -and Independence.
From: carlos aguirre Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 06:56:42 -0700 To: At-Large Worldwide<at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: RE: [At-Large] Respectful Online Communication and Behavior Dear Karl:
Yes, this document sounds to me some (at least) "naive". Specialy at this moment of ICANN history.
When I decided reply this, for an instant I thought to say respectfully another strong word, but then I thought in the diversity and cultures and point of view different.
In my oppinion we need to see the reality and say in a clear manner how is it. whatever being the words uses.
greetings
Carlos Dionisio Aguirre abogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar <http://www.sitioderecho.com.ar/> http://ar.ageiadensi.org <http://www.densi.com.ar/>
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 04:18:38 -0700 From: karl@cavebear.com To: at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org CC: avri@acm.org; janis.karklins@icann.org; council@gnso.icann.org; ccnso-council@icann.org; louie@equinix.com; ceo@auda.org.au; cgomes@verisign.com; jun@wide.ad.jp; steve@shinkuro.com; frank.fowlie@icann.org; liaison6c@gnso.icann.org; policy@icann.org Subject: Re: [At-Large] Respectful Online Communication and Behavior
ICANN's Ombudsman, Frank Fowlie, recently posted a web page on Respectful Online Communication and Behavior
I must say that I found that to be a rather strange document.
It posits ICANN as some fantasy world in which disinterested philosophers discuss and debate.
That is in hard conflict with the reality of ICANN as a political cauldron in which deeply antagonistic interests contest with one another for power and profit.
Many actors within ICANN could be in violation of the ethical requirements of their professions were they to trim the sails of their advocacy on behalf of their clients to conform with that document.
--karl--
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At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
¡Es hora que descubras quién sos! Alguien puede conocerte mejor que vos mismo. <http://www.descubrewindowslive.com/>
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Alas at last- This document may be interpreted in many ways, and may provoke divergent views from people's own experiences. The interpretation is a cross between censorship and or learn to speak/act well. I would chose to take the later, as we have been a victims of schoolish behaviour and nepotism of ICANN staff, which I hope is not censorship then if I have to express that. Sophia On 5/12/09, Frank Fowlie <frank.fowlie@icann.org> wrote:
To Karl and Carlos,
I don't believe that there is anything strange or naïve in the expectation that participants in an organization which represents a global community would conduct themselves at a level of discourse and behaviour that includes respectful communication. This is an international forum for debate and discussion, and while no one has the reasonable expectation of Platonic debate, neither do participants want to be involved in name calling and behaviours which more closely resemble a school yard at recess than an international cooperative effort.
There is no proposal that any party not vigorously pursue the advocacy of their own position, only that they do so in a manner that is respectful of others.
Dr. Frank Fowlie, DCR Ombudsman
The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) 4676 Admiralty Way, Suite 330 Marina del Rey California, USA, 90292
tel: +310-823-9358 fax: +310-823-8649
www.icannombudsman.org
The Values of this Office are: -Respect for Diversity; -Excellence in Ombudsmanship; -Professionalism; -Confidentiality; -Impartiality; -and Independence.
________________________________ From: carlos aguirre Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 06:56:42 -0700 To: At-Large Worldwide<at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: RE: [At-Large] Respectful Online Communication and Behavior
Dear Karl:
Yes, this document sounds to me some (at least) "naive". Specialy at this moment of ICANN history.
When I decided reply this, for an instant I thought to say respectfully another strong word, but then I thought in the diversity and cultures and point of view different.
In my oppinion we need to see the reality and say in a clear manner how is it. whatever being the words uses.
greetings
Carlos Dionisio Aguirre abogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar<http://www.sitioderecho.com.ar/> http://ar.ageiadensi.org<http://www.densi.com.ar/>
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 04:18:38 -0700 From: karl@cavebear.com To: at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org CC: avri@acm.org; janis.karklins@icann.org; council@gnso.icann.org; ccnso-council@icann.org; louie@equinix.com; ceo@auda.org.au; cgomes@verisign.com; jun@wide.ad.jp; steve@shinkuro.com; frank.fowlie@icann.org; liaison6c@gnso.icann.org; policy@icann.org Subject: Re: [At-Large] Respectful Online Communication and Behavior
ICANN's Ombudsman, Frank Fowlie, recently posted a web page on Respectful Online Communication and Behavior
I must say that I found that to be a rather strange document.
It posits ICANN as some fantasy world in which disinterested philosophers discuss and debate.
That is in hard conflict with the reality of ICANN as a political cauldron in which deeply antagonistic interests contest with one another for power and profit.
Many actors within ICANN could be in violation of the ethical requirements of their professions were they to trim the sails of their advocacy on behalf of their clients to conform with that document.
--karl--
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At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
________________________________ ¡Es hora que descubras quién sos! Alguien puede conocerte mejor que vos mismo.<http://www.descubrewindowslive.com/> _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org
http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.icann...
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-- _____________________ Sophia Bekele www.cbsintl.com www.dotconnectafrica.org www.sfbayisoc.org
Frank, I agree, there is nothing strange or naïve in such expectations. It even should be normal situation in normal international organization with public participation like ICANN is or is intended to be. However, your message reminds me of the announcement of discovery of America in the 21st century or sudden reviviscence of Sleeping Beauty. People here have been loudly pointing this out for years in order to balance the influence of pro-public and commercial personal interests within the ICANN structures and among ICANN staffers. The overall official approach is half-hearted and almost ineffective burdened by hidden fear and untenable respect towards 'authorities' allowing them further smooth exploitation of ICANN mission for their own sake. In every normal healthy public-based society people like that, especially in high positions, would be eliminated in few days; in ICANN they are sometimes almost glorified. The public participation does not mean exuberant conversations at 'low' level while tacitly respecting the money-addiction taboo by which decisions of high-level decision makers are eventually driven. ICANN is not a private enterprise nor is yet another American dream how to make fortune at any price. It is an international non-profit organization with its core values and accountability. Its mission is a service to people in the first place. The time is about to change and Paul Twomey has already understood this. This could be a nice opportunity also for some others to think over it. Dominik -----Original Message----- From: at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Frank Fowlie Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 4:22 PM To: carlos aguirre; At-Large Worldwide Cc: avri@acm.org; council@gnso.icann.org; ccnso-council@icann.org; louie@equinix.com; Disspain; janis.karklins@icann.org; jun@wide.ad.jp; Chris@vm-infraserv1.dsoft.sk; Steve Crocker; Charles A. (Chuck) Gomes; liaison6c@gnso.icann.org; policy@icann.org Subject: Re: [At-Large] Respectful Online Communication and Behavior To Karl and Carlos, I don't believe that there is anything strange or naïve in the expectation that participants in an organization which represents a global community would conduct themselves at a level of discourse and behaviour that includes respectful communication. This is an international forum for debate and discussion, and while no one has the reasonable expectation of Platonic debate, neither do participants want to be involved in name calling and behaviours which more closely resemble a school yard at recess than an international cooperative effort. There is no proposal that any party not vigorously pursue the advocacy of their own position, only that they do so in a manner that is respectful of others. Dr. Frank Fowlie, DCR Ombudsman The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) 4676 Admiralty Way, Suite 330 Marina del Rey California, USA, 90292 tel: +310-823-9358 fax: +310-823-8649 www.icannombudsman.org The Values of this Office are: -Respect for Diversity; -Excellence in Ombudsmanship; -Professionalism; -Confidentiality; -Impartiality; -and Independence. ________________________________ From: carlos aguirre Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 06:56:42 -0700 To: At-Large Worldwide<at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: RE: [At-Large] Respectful Online Communication and Behavior Dear Karl: Yes, this document sounds to me some (at least) "naive". Specialy at this moment of ICANN history. When I decided reply this, for an instant I thought to say respectfully another strong word, but then I thought in the diversity and cultures and point of view different. In my oppinion we need to see the reality and say in a clear manner how is it. whatever being the words uses. greetings Carlos Dionisio Aguirre abogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar<http://www.sitioderecho.com.ar/> http://ar.ageiadensi.org<http://www.densi.com.ar/>
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 04:18:38 -0700 From: karl@cavebear.com To: at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org CC: avri@acm.org; janis.karklins@icann.org; council@gnso.icann.org; ccnso-council@icann.org; louie@equinix.com; ceo@auda.org.au; cgomes@verisign.com; jun@wide.ad.jp; steve@shinkuro.com; frank.fowlie@icann.org; liaison6c@gnso.icann.org; policy@icann.org Subject: Re: [At-Large] Respectful Online Communication and Behavior
ICANN's Ombudsman, Frank Fowlie, recently posted a web page on Respectful Online Communication and Behavior
I must say that I found that to be a rather strange document.
It posits ICANN as some fantasy world in which disinterested philosophers discuss and debate.
That is in hard conflict with the reality of ICANN as a political cauldron in which deeply antagonistic interests contest with one another for power and profit.
Many actors within ICANN could be in violation of the ethical requirements of their professions were they to trim the sails of their advocacy on behalf of their clients to conform with that document.
--karl--
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Frank Fowlie wrote:
I don't believe that there is anything strange or naïve in the expectation that participants in an organization which represents a global community would conduct themselves at a level of discourse and behaviour that includes respectful communication.
You seem to have entirely missed the point of my note. Yesterday I visited the home of Thomas Jefferson, the man who drafted the United States' Declaration of Independence. The Declaration was drafted in the most respectful of terms but it stated with clarity and force an utter repudiation of the king's position. The core of your document is not respect but self emasculation: Your document tells us to "exercis[e] independent judgment based solely on what is in the overall best interest of Internet users and the stability and security of the Internet's system of unique identifiers, irrespective of personal interests and the interests of the entity to which an individual might owe their appointment." ICANN's board members do in fact have a fiduciary duty that somewhat resembles the above. But we are not board members. And ICANN employees are required in the course of their jobs to follow the policies set forth by ICANN's board. But we are not ICANN employees. Those of us who argue for positions within ICANN are entitled to argue for our own values. We may use such means of expression as we feel most appropriate. Further, many of us are attorneys who represent clients in these matters. It would be a violation of our professional obligations to our clients were we to set aside their interests and substitute your "overall best interest of the Internet user" standard. Others, who work form corporate "stakeholders" within ICANN would often be in dereliction of their own duties to their employers were they to set aside the interests of their employer. Your note is out of touch with the ICANN that exists. ICANN is a system of economic regulation of the domain name space. ICANN does virtually nothing that pertains to the "stability and security of the Internet's system of unique identifiers". In conclusion, I am once again stunned that ICANN permitted money to be spent in the creation of this document. --karl--
see comments below On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 7:18 AM, Karl Auerbach <karl@cavebear.com> wrote:
ICANN's Ombudsman, Frank Fowlie, recently posted a web page on Respectful
Online Communication and Behavior
I must say that I found that to be a rather strange document.
Me too. Very strange indeed in light of some of the actions taken by ICANN staff in censoring the GA.
It posits ICANN as some fantasy world in which disinterested philosophers discuss and debate.
ICANN has always lived in a fantasy world.
That is in hard conflict with the reality of ICANN as a political cauldron in which deeply antagonistic interests contest with one another for power and profit.
No it's understandable. Those in control of ICANN want to remain in control. They don't want new ideas to cloud the bureaucracy they are building. Most of the world realize that ICANN is a failed business model. I think ICANN was to in any way deflect as much criticism as it can so to maintain it's position.
Many actors within ICANN could be in violation of the ethical requirements of their professions were they to trim the sails of their advocacy on behalf of their clients to conform with that document.
They are. I'm a monitor of the GA and recently we had an ICANN staff member trying to influence peddle the removal of another members. Contrary to the chair and GA rules - members were removed from the GA by ICANN staff. Very inappropriate. It's all archived on the GA list if anyone is interested. cheers joe baptista -- Joe Baptista www.publicroot.org PublicRoot Consortium ---------------------------------------------------------------- The future of the Internet is Open, Transparent, Inclusive, Representative & Accountable to the Internet community @large. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Office: +1 (360) 526-6077 (extension 052) Fax: +1 (509) 479-0084
Dear Karl: Yes, this document sounds to me some (at least) "naive". Specialy at this moment of ICANN history. When I decided reply this, for an instant I thought to say respectfully another strong word, but then I thought in the diversity and cultures and point of view different. In my oppinion we need to see the reality and say in a clear manner how is it. whatever being the words uses. greetings Carlos Dionisio Aguirreabogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar http://ar.ageiadensi.org
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 04:18:38 -0700 From: karl@cavebear.com To: at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org CC: avri@acm.org; janis.karklins@icann.org; council@gnso.icann.org; ccnso-council@icann.org; louie@equinix.com; ceo@auda.org.au; cgomes@verisign.com; jun@wide.ad.jp; steve@shinkuro.com; frank.fowlie@icann.org; liaison6c@gnso.icann.org; policy@icann.org Subject: Re: [At-Large] Respectful Online Communication and Behavior
ICANN's Ombudsman, Frank Fowlie, recently posted a web page on Respectful Online Communication and Behavior
I must say that I found that to be a rather strange document.
It posits ICANN as some fantasy world in which disinterested philosophers discuss and debate.
That is in hard conflict with the reality of ICANN as a political cauldron in which deeply antagonistic interests contest with one another for power and profit.
Many actors within ICANN could be in violation of the ethical requirements of their professions were they to trim the sails of their advocacy on behalf of their clients to conform with that document.
--karl--
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¡Es hora que descubras quién sos! Alguien puede conocerte mejor que vos mismo. _________________________________________________________________ Encontrá todo sobre tus artistas favoritos en MSN http://entretenimiento.latam.msn.com/ar
People at this level should be respectful per se, and if they are not they are just not taken serious. I don´t think no one here needs any document to tell them how to be respectfull José Ovidio Salgueiro A. salgueiro.jo@gmail.com -----Mensaje original----- De: at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] En nombre de carlos aguirre Enviado el: martes, 12 de mayo de 2009 09:49 a.m. Para: At-Large Worldwide Asunto: [At-Large] FW: Respectful Online Communication and Behavior Dear Karl: Yes, this document sounds to me some (at least) "naive". Specialy at this moment of ICANN history. When I decided reply this, for an instant I thought to say respectfully another strong word, but then I thought in the diversity and cultures and point of view different. In my oppinion we need to see the reality and say in a clear manner how is it. whatever being the words uses. greetings Carlos Dionisio Aguirreabogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar http://ar.ageiadensi.org
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 04:18:38 -0700 From: karl@cavebear.com To: at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org CC: avri@acm.org; janis.karklins@icann.org; council@gnso.icann.org; ccnso-council@icann.org; louie@equinix.com; ceo@auda.org.au; cgomes@verisign.com; jun@wide.ad.jp; steve@shinkuro.com; frank.fowlie@icann.org; liaison6c@gnso.icann.org; policy@icann.org Subject: Re: [At-Large] Respectful Online Communication and Behavior
ICANN's Ombudsman, Frank Fowlie, recently posted a web page on Respectful Online Communication and Behavior
I must say that I found that to be a rather strange document.
It posits ICANN as some fantasy world in which disinterested philosophers discuss and debate.
That is in hard conflict with the reality of ICANN as a political cauldron in which deeply antagonistic interests contest with one another for power and profit.
Many actors within ICANN could be in violation of the ethical requirements of their professions were they to trim the sails of their advocacy on behalf of their clients to conform with that document.
--karl--
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http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.icann .org
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¡Es hora que descubras quién sos! Alguien puede conocerte mejor que vos mismo. _________________________________________________________________ Encontrá todo sobre tus artistas favoritos en MSN http://entretenimiento.latam.msn.com/ar _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.icann .org At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
It is interesting..... Yes! cant wait to hear what others say about the posting. There will many opinions from different corners... for sure. Regards Yassin
From: carlosaguirre62@hotmail.com To: at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 14:19:06 +0000 Subject: [At-Large] FW: Respectful Online Communication and Behavior
Dear Karl:
Yes, this document sounds to me some (at least) "naive". Specialy at this moment of ICANN history.
When I decided reply this, for an instant I thought to say respectfully another strong word, but then I thought in the diversity and cultures and point of view different.
In my oppinion we need to see the reality and say in a clear manner how is it. whatever being the words uses.
greetings
Carlos Dionisio Aguirreabogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina - *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423 www.derechoytecnologia.com.ar http://ar.ageiadensi.org
Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 04:18:38 -0700 From: karl@cavebear.com To: at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org CC: avri@acm.org; janis.karklins@icann.org; council@gnso.icann.org; ccnso-council@icann.org; louie@equinix.com; ceo@auda.org.au; cgomes@verisign.com; jun@wide.ad.jp; steve@shinkuro.com; frank.fowlie@icann.org; liaison6c@gnso.icann.org; policy@icann.org Subject: Re: [At-Large] Respectful Online Communication and Behavior
ICANN's Ombudsman, Frank Fowlie, recently posted a web page on Respectful Online Communication and Behavior
I must say that I found that to be a rather strange document.
It posits ICANN as some fantasy world in which disinterested philosophers discuss and debate.
That is in hard conflict with the reality of ICANN as a political cauldron in which deeply antagonistic interests contest with one another for power and profit.
Many actors within ICANN could be in violation of the ethical requirements of their professions were they to trim the sails of their advocacy on behalf of their clients to conform with that document.
--karl--
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ICANN's Ombudsman, Frank Fowlie, recently posted a web page on Respectful Online Communication and Behavior
I must say that I found that to be a rather strange document.
Unfortunately, I don't find it odd at all. ICANN's Ombudsman, who has never had more than a trickle of complaints to justify his position, now will be Hall Monitor, or perhaps Head Censor, which will allow him to invent cases at will. It's been clear for years that the Ombudsman experiment is a failure, adding neither clarity nor fairness to ICANN's process. It's long past time to delete Article V from the ICANN bylaws and bring the experiment to an end. If ICANN wants to be credible and transparent, it needs fewer, simpler processes. R's, John
John R. Levine wrote:
It's been clear for years that the Ombudsman experiment is a failure, adding neither clarity nor fairness to ICANN's process. It's long past time to delete Article V from the ICANN bylaws and bring the experiment to an end. If ICANN wants to be credible and transparent, it needs fewer, simpler processes.
The Ombudsman office was part of what was "given" to the community of internet users as payment for the elimination of publicly elected members on ICANN's board of directors. We are sort of like those aboriginals of legend who sold the island of Manhattan for a few beads and trinkets - we gave up a great deal and got very little in return. I, too, feel that it is long past time for ICANN to eliminate the office of the ombudsman. Without going too deeply into the failures of the current occupant of that office - although the Ombudsman luggage tags that were given out in Vancouver were unforgettable - there is no reason for the office to continue. A good board member can act, and has more legal authority to act, to cure errors than does the current office. --karl--
participants (13)
-
carlos aguirre -
Dave Piscitello -
Denise Michel -
Dominik Filipp -
Frank Fowlie -
Jacqueline A. Morris -
Joe Baptista -
John R. Levine -
José Ovidio Salgueiro A. -
Karl Auerbach -
Sophia B -
Vanda Scartezini -
Yassin Mshana