Hi, I just noticed a somewhat strange action of our local police department. The seemed to issue an order against a local registrar to change the domain owner located in a different country. Please note, that there is no court order. IMHO the police officer prefered to take over the domain instead of taking the domain down or (best case) requesting international administrative assistance. I might be wrong. My question is: Does the ICANN allow registrars to change the holder instead of setting the domain on "hold" in such a situation? Situation from 2008-11-30 (http://www.whois.de/currentWhois/view/bet3000.com) Domain Name:bet3000.com Created On:2003-06-02 15:18:55 Last Updated On:2008-06-03 03:32:10 Expiration Date:2009-06-02 15:18:55 Status:ok Registrant-ID:IBAL1-EPNIC Registrant-Name:International Betting Association Limited Registrant-Street:4 College Lane Registrant-City:Gibraltar Registrant-Postal-Code:4 College Registrant-Country:GI Registrant-Phone:+350.20052577 Registrant-FAX:+350.20052782 Registrant-Email:info@iba.gi Situation today (current whois) Domain Name:bet3000.com Created On:2003-06-02 15:18:55 Last Updated On:2008-12-02 10:32:26 Expiration Date:2010-12-01 04:59:59 Status:registrarHold Registrant-ID:BD512-EPNIC Registrant-Name:Juergen Buessow Registrant-Organisation:Bezirksregierung Duesseldorf Registrant-Street:Cecilienallee 2 Registrant-City:Duesseldorf Registrant-Postal-Code:40474 Registrant-Country:DE Registrant-Phone:+49.2114750 Registrant-Email:poststelle@brd.nrw.de
My question is: Does the ICANN allow registrars to change the holder instead of setting the domain on "hold" in such a situation?
Nobody really knows. There is a similar case in Kentucky in the US in which the state claims that a long list of gambling domains are operating illegally in Kentucky, and wants to take over all those domains. But none of them have any operations in Kentucky, and most of them have no operations anywhere in the U.S. The state is clearly completely wrong, but the judge is proceeding cautiously, since it is rare for a state to file such a completely meritless suit. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Information Superhighwayman wanna-be, http://www.johnlevine.com, ex-Mayor "More Wiener schnitzel, please", said Tom, revealingly.
Amusing stuff! Domains and their locations..... how can one tell the location of a domain name I wonder. Where are the borders? Is it a taxation issue? Need to be enlightened in this.....> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 14:21:20 +0000> From: johnl@iecc.com> To: at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [At-Large] Local police takes over domains from foreign countries> > > My question is: Does the ICANN allow registrars to change the holder instead> > of setting the domain on "hold" in such a situation?> > Nobody really knows.> > There is a similar case in Kentucky in the US in which the state claims > that a long list of gambling domains are operating illegally in Kentucky, > and wants to take over all those domains. But none of them have any > operations in Kentucky, and most of them have no operations anywhere in > the U.S. The state is clearly completely wrong, but the judge is > proceeding cautiously, since it is rare for a state to file such a > completely meritless suit.> > Regards,> John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",> Information Superhighwayman wanna-be, http://www.johnlevine.com, ex-Mayor> "More Wiener schnitzel, please", said Tom, revealingly.> > _______________________________________________> At-Large mailing list> At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.icann...> > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _________________________________________________________________ News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now! http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx
Hi all. Well, here we had a similar issue, degenerated into a show of ignorance. Shortly: - a web site published the resume of a - fake - phone call between Mr. Silvio Berlusconi and Mr. Fedele Confalonieri, Mediaset TV President. - Italian police decided to take over the web site.... - An Italian police officer (?), since the ISP was "Aruba" (a very well known hosting web farm) tought that he had to extradict to Aruba's Antilles island.... - ADNKronos News Agency reported the news that a web site in the Carribean was going to be took over (!) http://www.lastknight.com/2008/07/07/laprivatarepubblica/ I do not know what's "better", a competent police officer that decides to take over domains from foreign countries, rather than an ignorant police officer even unable to correctly perform an "whois" :( Cheers, Raoul -- Raoul Chiesa (OPST, OPSA) Membro del Comitato Direttivo - Steering Board Member CLUSIT - Associazione Italiana per la Sicurezza Informatica CLUSIT - Italian Computer Security Association Università degli Studi di Milano - University of Milan Dipartimento di Informatica e Comunicazione - IT Department rchiesa@clusit.it - www.clusit.it Yassin Mshana ha scritto:
Amusing stuff!
Domains and their locations..... how can one tell the location of a domain name I wonder.
Where are the borders? Is it a taxation issue?
Need to be enlightened in this.....> Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 14:21:20 +0000> From: johnl@iecc.com> To: at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [At-Large] Local police takes over domains from foreign countries> > > My question is: Does the ICANN allow registrars to change the holder instead> > of setting the domain on "hold" in such a situation?> > Nobody really knows.> > There is a similar case in Kentucky in the US in which the state claims > that a long list of gambling domains are operating illegally in Kentucky, > and wants to take over all those domains. But none of them have any > operations in Kentucky, and most of them have no operations anywhere in > the U.S. The state is clearly completely wrong, but the judge is > proceeding cautiously, since it is rare for a state to file such a > completely meritless suit.> > Regards,> John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",> Information Superhighwayman wanna-be, http://www.johnlevine.com, ex-Mayor> "More Wiener schni tzel, please", said Tom, revealingly.> > _______________________________________________> At-Large mailing list> At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.icann...> > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _________________________________________________________________ News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now! http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.icann...
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Hi Lutz I could say a lot about these situations, mostly not good. The internet community is supposed to be self regulating. It simply does not happen and registrars are many times the first ones to ask for LEA interference. We need to ask why this happened, the background etc. Remember, at the end of the day, a registrar is not above the law, as also stipulated in the RAA despite what some people tend to think (or even some registrars themselves). My comments interspersed below: Lutz Donnerhacke wrote:
Hi,
I just noticed a somewhat strange action of our local police department. The seemed to issue an order against a local registrar to change the domain owner located in a different country. Please note, that there is no court order.
Another registrar, Godaddy, sponsoring domains used for bank spoofs replied as follows: "We are more than happy to quickly comply with any court-issued order or official request by law enforcement (whose burden it is to determine the existence of illegal activities). We regularly work with courts and law enforcement from the local to the international level. As a result, we would recommend you seek an injunction from a court as the most efficient way to handle this situation." Note the court order "or" official request by law enforcement....
IMHO the police officer prefered to take over the domain instead of taking the domain down or (best case) requesting international administrative assistance. I might be wrong.
I note the domain is on HOLD: "Domain Name:bet3000.com Created On:2003-06-02 15:18:55 Last Updated On:2008-12-02 10:32:26 Expiration Date:2010-12-01 04:59:59 Status:registrarHold" Date is 2008-12-02 10:32:26 on my lookup and yours. So this was most likely a delayed update to the registry.
My question is: Does the ICANN allow registrars to change the holder instead of setting the domain on "hold" in such a situation?
It would depend on the background to the situation I guess.
Situation from 2008-11-30 (http://www.whois.de/currentWhois/view/bet3000.com) Domain Name:bet3000.com Created On:2003-06-02 15:18:55 Last Updated On:2008-06-03 03:32:10 Expiration Date:2009-06-02 15:18:55 Status:ok
Registrant-ID:IBAL1-EPNIC Registrant-Name:International Betting Association Limited Registrant-Street:4 College Lane Registrant-City:Gibraltar Registrant-Postal-Code:4 College Registrant-Country:GI Registrant-Phone:+350.20052577 Registrant-FAX:+350.20052782 Registrant-Email:info@iba.gi
Situation today (current whois) Domain Name:bet3000.com Created On:2003-06-02 15:18:55 Last Updated On:2008-12-02 10:32:26 Expiration Date:2010-12-01 04:59:59 Status:registrarHold
Registrant-ID:BD512-EPNIC Registrant-Name:Juergen Buessow Registrant-Organisation:Bezirksregierung Duesseldorf Registrant-Street:Cecilienallee 2 Registrant-City:Duesseldorf Registrant-Postal-Code:40474 Registrant-Country:DE Registrant-Phone:+49.2114750 Registrant-Email:poststelle@brd.nrw.de
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The above domain is not listed at the Gibraltar Regulatory Authority , though it may have been but is now removed: http://www.gra.gi/index.php?article=135&topic=licences§ion=licences&site... (A search finds no trace of it in search engine or like caches) We note the same registrant does have a license for http://www.onextwo.com/ The registrar is in Germany, like the original billing contact and where it appears enforcement action was taken. Seems bet3000.com was previously known as bet3000.de - which shows a German affiliation, now suspended by German LEA? The gambling laws of Gibraltar are here: http://www.gra.gi/sites/*gambling*/downloads/42/*gambling*%20ord%202005.pdf The accountability issue on the Internet etc is a big mess quite frankly. Many big internet players chanting the "self governance" mantra are the same players tending to use LEA and court orders many times to frustrate processes intended to protect the public. As such strange things do tend to happen, not only harming the bad actors, but many innocents in the process. However, in this case no background information is known, so it is virtually impossible to make any form of and educated guess. Derek
Dear All, I made a preliminary report with information about my Dot Mobi Position. It´s available at: HYPERLINK "https://st.icann.org/alac/index.cgi?dotMOBI%20Liaison%20Report"https://st.i cann.org/alac/index.cgi?dotMOBI%20Liaison%20Report# in both languages. Regards, Andrés _________________________________________________________________ Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/119462413/direct/01/
participants (6)
-
Andres Piazza -
Derek Smythe -
John L -
Lutz Donnerhacke -
Raoul Chiesa - CD CLUSIT -
Yassin Mshana