Request for staff research: registrar fees and practices
Here's my recommendation for a request to staff for registrar research. I'd recommend this begin with review of registrar websites, perhaps to be followed with direct communications if information is unavailable. Comments or changes welcome. --Wendy The At-Large Advisory Committee has heard complaints from individuals about significant divergences among registrars on fees and practices regarding domain name transfer and expired domain name redemption. At least some registrants are not aware of these fees and practices at the time they register names. Before ALAC can analyze whether these fees and practices reflect a problem or the competitive market at work, we would like to get more information about them. We therefore ask staff to develop a plan for surveying accredited registrars on their practices. For each registrar, determine: Transfer-away: Is there a transfer-away fee for registrants to take their domain names to another registrar? If so, what is the fee? Is the transfer-away fee disclosed to the registrant at the time of registration? Where and how is such disclosure made? Is the fee subject to change during the registration period? Can registrants actually get the authcodes required to transfer domains, with or without fee? Redemption: What is the redemption fee for an expired domain name? Does the registrar itself register names its registrants have failed to renew? -- Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@seltzer.org phone: 718.780.7961 // fax: 718.780.0394 // cell: 914.374.0613 Visiting Assistant Professor of Law, Brooklyn Law School Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html http://www.chillingeffects.org/
Can registrants actually get the authcodes required to transfer domains, with or without fee?
I'd rather ask what is the process to get the authcode, with the fee being part of the answer. Some registrars, such as the one I use, have an automated procedure to send the registrant an authcode. For some it's manual but free, for others it's manual and costs money. Personally, I think that manual but free is the worst that I would consider acceptable. Registrars should get their customers to renew by providing good service at a competitive price, not by sabotaging their efforts to leave. R's, John PS to Wendy: feel free to repost this if I'm not allowed to send this to the ALAC list directly.
John L ha scritto:
Can registrants actually get the authcodes required to transfer domains, with or without fee?
I'd rather ask what is the process to get the authcode, with the fee being part of the answer.
Support... I'm also wondering whether we could also try to understand whether registrars have contractual relationships with their resellers (eg a formal reselling program) or, in general, if and how could you pass on to resellers some information / best practices / contractual clauses. But perhaps that would lead us too far? -- vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu <-------- --------> finally with a new website at http://bertola.eu/ <--------
I'm also wondering whether we could also try to understand whether registrars have contractual relationships with their resellers (eg a formal reselling program) or, in general, if and how could you pass on to resellers some information / best practices / contractual clauses. But perhaps that would lead us too far?
That's an interesting question, but one that might better be separated from the transfer question. Transfer policies can be categorized pretty easily along a few axes, e.g., automatic vs. manual, free vs. pay at verious price levels, and it will be useful and interesting to find out how registrars fall into those categories. I'm a Tucows reseller, and they have contracts I had to sign and fax back. They're online at http://resellers.tucows.com/contracts/. Poking around at a few other resellers, I find either print and sign or clickwrap contracts. But even if I collected them all, I'm not sure what I'd do with them. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Information Superhighwayman wanna-be, http://johnlevine.com, Mayor "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly.
John L wrote:
PS to Wendy: feel free to repost this if I'm not allowed to send this to the ALAC list directly.
Apparently you are (and rightfully so, as ALAC alumni), since I got this from you through the list. Cheers, Roberto P.S.: Incidentally, I agree with you on how competition should develop, re: below.
Personally, I think that manual but free is the worst that I would consider acceptable. Registrars should get their customers to renew by providing good service at a competitive price, not by sabotaging their efforts to leave.
At 4/14/2007 01:01 AM, John L wrote:
Can registrants actually get the authcodes required to transfer domains, with or without fee?
I'd rather ask what is the process to get the authcode, with the fee being part of the answer.
Some registrars, such as the one I use, have an automated procedure to send the registrant an authcode. For some it's manual but free, for others it's manual and costs money.
Personally, I think that manual but free is the worst that I would consider acceptable. Registrars should get their customers to renew by providing good service at a competitive price, not by sabotaging their efforts to leave.
I'd go one further and say that the issue is the process to transfer a domain. For instance, a reseller I have dealt with requires that the domain be unlocked before it can be transferred. All other activities you can do via their web-based domain management tool, but "to protect me", unlock requires e-mail contact. Alan
The GNSO's developed a few consensus policies, would be an idea to see if those policies are complied with. <http://gnso.icann.org/policies/> example, deletes: "Additionally, in order to provide registrants with a complete understanding of registrars' deletion and renewal policies, the task force recommends that registrars inform registrants of those policies at the time of registration, and maintains them in a conspicuous place on their website." conspicuous place on their website... has it been done? Expect there's quite a bit more that could be checked and then monitored. Adam
Here's my recommendation for a request to staff for registrar research. I'd recommend this begin with review of registrar websites, perhaps to be followed with direct communications if information is unavailable.
Comments or changes welcome. --Wendy
The At-Large Advisory Committee has heard complaints from individuals about significant divergences among registrars on fees and practices regarding domain name transfer and expired domain name redemption. At least some registrants are not aware of these fees and practices at the time they register names. Before ALAC can analyze whether these fees and practices reflect a problem or the competitive market at work, we would like to get more information about them.
We therefore ask staff to develop a plan for surveying accredited registrars on their practices.
For each registrar, determine: Transfer-away: Is there a transfer-away fee for registrants to take their domain names to another registrar? If so, what is the fee? Is the transfer-away fee disclosed to the registrant at the time of registration? Where and how is such disclosure made? Is the fee subject to change during the registration period? Can registrants actually get the authcodes required to transfer domains, with or without fee?
Redemption: What is the redemption fee for an expired domain name? Does the registrar itself register names its registrants have failed to renew?
-- Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@seltzer.org phone: 718.780.7961 // fax: 718.780.0394 // cell: 914.374.0613 Visiting Assistant Professor of Law, Brooklyn Law School Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html http://www.chillingeffects.org/
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Hi, even though I was subscribed to this list, I couldn't post to it! So I unsubbed and subbed again-- now let's see if it works. I think this is a very good idea, Wendy, and is definitely within ALAC's purview to do. In ICANN is there any kind of watchdog to see if the registrars are in compliance? (erm, let alone the registries....) JP Ex-NA Alac At 5:50 PM -0400 4/13/07, Wendy Seltzer recently said:
Here's my recommendation for a request to staff for registrar research. I'd recommend this begin with review of registrar websites, perhaps to be followed with direct communications if information is unavailable.
Comments or changes welcome. --Wendy
The At-Large Advisory Committee has heard complaints from individuals about significant divergences among registrars on fees and practices regarding domain name transfer and expired domain name redemption. At least some registrants are not aware of these fees and practices at the time they register names. Before ALAC can analyze whether these fees and practices reflect a problem or the competitive market at work, we would like to get more information about them.
We therefore ask staff to develop a plan for surveying accredited registrars on their practices.
For each registrar, determine: Transfer-away: Is there a transfer-away fee for registrants to take their domain names to another registrar? If so, what is the fee? Is the transfer-away fee disclosed to the registrant at the time of registration? Where and how is such disclosure made? Is the fee subject to change during the registration period? Can registrants actually get the authcodes required to transfer domains, with or without fee?
Redemption: What is the redemption fee for an expired domain name? Does the registrar itself register names its registrants have failed to renew?
-- Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@seltzer.org phone: 718.780.7961 // fax: 718.780.0394 // cell: 914.374.0613 Visiting Assistant Professor of Law, Brooklyn Law School Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html http://www.chillingeffects.org/
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Hello all, My name is Jude Augusta. I am the Executive Director of The Internet Commerce Association. Our objective is to voice the concerns of domain name registrants. I wanted to say that I am wholly and humbly impressed with the amount of effort you put into your endeavors here, especially since there are significant challenges in the global arena of domain governance. I would like to make your efforts more known through our domain registrant network. I would also offer my assistance in this effort to help "rate" registrars and weed out problems for domain registrants. I am a veteran of Sedo and work closely with those at Afternic (Name Media) and can aid in gathering these problems. In fact, a newsletter or survey effort would likely seem reasonable in this regard. Further, I would like to make registrants aware of your efforts and that there is an element of ICANN whereby they can attempt to address problems related to transfers/purchases. I would also humbly ask if there is an opportunity to join you in your face to face meeting if that has yet been scheduled. I look forward to assisting and again thank you for your efforts. Sincerely, Jude Anthony Augusta About The ICA: The Internet Commerce Association is a professional organization of domain name interest holders participating in decisions affecting domain name pricing and governance. The membership includes individual domain-name holders. The Board is comprised of membership representing: IREIT.com, TARGETEDTRAFFIC.com, Oversee.net, Sedo.com, Straat Investments, Neulaw.com, DNJournal.com, and Domain Investor Frank Schilling. Jude Anthony Augusta, Esq./MBA Executive Director Internet Commerce Association (t) 603.601.0646 (f) 603.601.0972 jude@internetcommerce.org www.InternetCommerce.org On 4/13/07 5:50 PM, "Wendy Seltzer" <wendy@seltzer.com> wrote:
Here's my recommendation for a request to staff for registrar research. I'd recommend this begin with review of registrar websites, perhaps to be followed with direct communications if information is unavailable.
Comments or changes welcome. --Wendy
The At-Large Advisory Committee has heard complaints from individuals about significant divergences among registrars on fees and practices regarding domain name transfer and expired domain name redemption. At least some registrants are not aware of these fees and practices at the time they register names. Before ALAC can analyze whether these fees and practices reflect a problem or the competitive market at work, we would like to get more information about them.
We therefore ask staff to develop a plan for surveying accredited registrars on their practices.
For each registrar, determine: Transfer-away: Is there a transfer-away fee for registrants to take their domain names to another registrar? If so, what is the fee? Is the transfer-away fee disclosed to the registrant at the time of registration? Where and how is such disclosure made? Is the fee subject to change during the registration period? Can registrants actually get the authcodes required to transfer domains, with or without fee?
Redemption: What is the redemption fee for an expired domain name? Does the registrar itself register names its registrants have failed to renew?
Jude: First, welcome to the list. I recall a member of your organization making an intervention at the recent ICANN meeting in Lisbon. I had a few question then, bit didn't have a chance to ask the person in question. Now that you are here , let me ask... Having followed internet governance discussions both in the context of the recent UN world summit on the information Society (WSIS) and now ICANN, I am curious to know more about your organization. I haven't honestly heard of the association before, and am curious to know more. Specifically does it just represents just organizations and interests in the USA - or is in fact global? In regards to the - proposed upcoming meeting. One of the proposals on the table is to schedule the meeting to coincide with the 17th Annual Computers, Freedom and Privacy conference being held in Montréal the first week in May. Details are available on the website @ www.cfp2007.org A session on WHOIS is also being planned. The tentative time for the session is Friday May 4th around noon. Confirmed panelists at this point in time include - Bernard Turcotte from CIRA, David Mahler from PIR, and myself as the session moderator. Being on the conference program committee, do feel free to contact me if you have any questions about the event. regards, Robert --- Robert Guerra <rguerra@privaterra.org> Managing Director, Privaterra Tel +1 416 893 0377 On 16-Apr-07, at 1:21 PM, Jude Augusta wrote:
Hello all, My name is Jude Augusta. I am the Executive Director of The Internet Commerce Association. Our objective is to voice the concerns of domain name registrants. I wanted to say that I am wholly and humbly impressed with the amount of effort you put into your endeavors here, especially since there are significant challenges in the global arena of domain governance. I would like to make your efforts more known through our domain registrant network. I would also offer my assistance in this effort to help "rate" registrars and weed out problems for domain registrants. I am a veteran of Sedo and work closely with those at Afternic (Name Media) and can aid in gathering these problems. In fact, a newsletter or survey effort would likely seem reasonable in this regard. Further, I would like to make registrants aware of your efforts and that there is an element of ICANN whereby they can attempt to address problems related to transfers/purchases. I would also humbly ask if there is an opportunity to join you in your face to face meeting if that has yet been scheduled. I look forward to assisting and again thank you for your efforts.
Sincerely, Jude Anthony Augusta
About The ICA: The Internet Commerce Association is a professional organization of domain name interest holders participating in decisions affecting domain name pricing and governance. The membership includes individual domain-name holders. The Board is comprised of membership representing: IREIT.com, TARGETEDTRAFFIC.com, Oversee.net, Sedo.com, Straat Investments, Neulaw.com, DNJournal.com, and Domain Investor Frank Schilling.
Jude Anthony Augusta, Esq./MBA Executive Director Internet Commerce Association (t) 603.601.0646 (f) 603.601.0972 jude@internetcommerce.org
www.InternetCommerce.org
On 4/13/07 5:50 PM, "Wendy Seltzer" <wendy@seltzer.com> wrote:
Here's my recommendation for a request to staff for registrar research. I'd recommend this begin with review of registrar websites, perhaps to be followed with direct communications if information is unavailable.
Comments or changes welcome. --Wendy
The At-Large Advisory Committee has heard complaints from individuals about significant divergences among registrars on fees and practices regarding domain name transfer and expired domain name redemption. At least some registrants are not aware of these fees and practices at the time they register names. Before ALAC can analyze whether these fees and practices reflect a problem or the competitive market at work, we would like to get more information about them.
We therefore ask staff to develop a plan for surveying accredited registrars on their practices.
For each registrar, determine: Transfer-away: Is there a transfer-away fee for registrants to take their domain names to another registrar? If so, what is the fee? Is the transfer-away fee disclosed to the registrant at the time of registration? Where and how is such disclosure made? Is the fee subject to change during the registration period? Can registrants actually get the authcodes required to transfer domains, with or without fee?
Redemption: What is the redemption fee for an expired domain name? Does the registrar itself register names its registrants have failed to renew?
_______________________________________________ ALAC mailing list ALAC@atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac_atlarge- lists.icann.org
www.alac.icann.org www.icannalac.org
Hello Robert, Forgive my tardy response. My area (North of Boston, Massachusetts, United States) experienced severe flooding and power outages all day yesterday. Finally, things are restored. We have no objective to be focused on the United States. In fact, we're opposed to it as it would actually hamper our efforts. We are reaching presently into Europe (particularly Italy) and as far as India and Australia. We appreciate the invitation to lovely Montreal. I actually live in New Hampshire and that is a not-inconvenient drive. I look forward to meeting those of you who shall attend. I will follow up with you Robert. For those of you who would like user-input from Sedo or Afternic, please contact me and I will be happy to accommodate to the best of my ability. Again, our thanks. Sincerely, - Jude Augusta Jude Anthony Augusta, Esq./MBA Executive Director Internet Commerce Association (t) 603.601.0646 (f) 603.601.0972 jude@internetcommerce.org www.InternetCommerce.org On 4/16/07 1:43 PM, "Mr. Robert Guerra" <lists@privaterra.info> wrote:
Jude:
First, welcome to the list.
I recall a member of your organization making an intervention at the recent ICANN meeting in Lisbon. I had a few question then, bit didn't have a chance to ask the person in question. Now that you are here , let me ask...
Having followed internet governance discussions both in the context of the recent UN world summit on the information Society (WSIS) and now ICANN, I am curious to know more about your organization. I haven't honestly heard of the association before, and am curious to know more. Specifically does it just represents just organizations and interests in the USA - or is in fact global?
In regards to the - proposed upcoming meeting. One of the proposals on the table is to schedule the meeting to coincide with the 17th Annual Computers, Freedom and Privacy conference being held in Montréal the first week in May. Details are available on the website @ www.cfp2007.org
A session on WHOIS is also being planned. The tentative time for the session is Friday May 4th around noon. Confirmed panelists at this point in time include - Bernard Turcotte from CIRA, David Mahler from PIR, and myself as the session moderator.
Being on the conference program committee, do feel free to contact me if you have any questions about the event.
regards,
Robert --- Robert Guerra <rguerra@privaterra.org> Managing Director, Privaterra Tel +1 416 893 0377
On 16-Apr-07, at 1:21 PM, Jude Augusta wrote:
Hello all, My name is Jude Augusta. I am the Executive Director of The Internet Commerce Association. Our objective is to voice the concerns of domain name registrants. I wanted to say that I am wholly and humbly impressed with the amount of effort you put into your endeavors here, especially since there are significant challenges in the global arena of domain governance. I would like to make your efforts more known through our domain registrant network. I would also offer my assistance in this effort to help "rate" registrars and weed out problems for domain registrants. I am a veteran of Sedo and work closely with those at Afternic (Name Media) and can aid in gathering these problems. In fact, a newsletter or survey effort would likely seem reasonable in this regard. Further, I would like to make registrants aware of your efforts and that there is an element of ICANN whereby they can attempt to address problems related to transfers/purchases. I would also humbly ask if there is an opportunity to join you in your face to face meeting if that has yet been scheduled. I look forward to assisting and again thank you for your efforts.
Sincerely, Jude Anthony Augusta
About The ICA: The Internet Commerce Association is a professional organization of domain name interest holders participating in decisions affecting domain name pricing and governance. The membership includes individual domain-name holders. The Board is comprised of membership representing: IREIT.com, TARGETEDTRAFFIC.com, Oversee.net, Sedo.com, Straat Investments, Neulaw.com, DNJournal.com, and Domain Investor Frank Schilling.
Jude Anthony Augusta, Esq./MBA Executive Director Internet Commerce Association (t) 603.601.0646 (f) 603.601.0972 jude@internetcommerce.org
www.InternetCommerce.org
On 4/13/07 5:50 PM, "Wendy Seltzer" <wendy@seltzer.com> wrote:
Here's my recommendation for a request to staff for registrar research. I'd recommend this begin with review of registrar websites, perhaps to be followed with direct communications if information is unavailable.
Comments or changes welcome. --Wendy
The At-Large Advisory Committee has heard complaints from individuals about significant divergences among registrars on fees and practices regarding domain name transfer and expired domain name redemption. At least some registrants are not aware of these fees and practices at the time they register names. Before ALAC can analyze whether these fees and practices reflect a problem or the competitive market at work, we would like to get more information about them.
We therefore ask staff to develop a plan for surveying accredited registrars on their practices.
For each registrar, determine: Transfer-away: Is there a transfer-away fee for registrants to take their domain names to another registrar? If so, what is the fee? Is the transfer-away fee disclosed to the registrant at the time of registration? Where and how is such disclosure made? Is the fee subject to change during the registration period? Can registrants actually get the authcodes required to transfer domains, with or without fee?
Redemption: What is the redemption fee for an expired domain name? Does the registrar itself register names its registrants have failed to renew?
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www.alac.icann.org www.icannalac.org
participants (9)
-
Adam Peake -
Alan Greenberg -
Jean Armour Polly -
John L -
Jude Augusta -
Mr. Robert Guerra -
Roberto Gaetano -
Vittorio Bertola -
Wendy Seltzer