Fwd: Protection of IOC/Red Cross Names at Top Level
Should ALAC have a stance on the TLD reservation of the Red Cross and Olympic terms? Personally, I think they should be handled differently. I have no problem with the Red [Cross|Crescent|Diamond] names (and their multilingual and IDN equivalents) being reserved because these are groups that do charitable work and collect funds for relief of famines, natural disasters and other emergencies. OTOH, The international olympic movement, while non-profit, does not collect emergency funds in the same way as the Red Cross. Furthermore, I have seen olympic committees in various countries aggressively shut down innocent users (like family-run Greek restaurants using "Olympic" in their name) that are neither competing nor confusing with the athletic organization. (How soon before they go after the largest Greek airline?) In any case, my own preference is to support reservation of the Red Cross names but oppose similar protection offered to Olympic ones (and allow contentious applications to be objected to in the appropriate way as required). - Evan -- terms -------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Konstantinos Komaitis <k.komaitis@strath.ac.uk> Date: 2012/2/2 Subject: FW: Questions/Options for Protection of IOC/Red Cross Names at Top Level To: NCSG-DISCUSS@listserv.syr.edu Dear all,**** ** ** As you know, a policy group has been created to discuss the GAC’s request for special protection of the Olympic and Red Cross marks and their variations. The group came up with a set of questions and possible options that will be discussing in next week’s call. Please note that at this stage discussions are focusing only at the top level and not the second. **** ** ** Can I please ask for your feedback on these possible recommendations? You all know where I stand on this issue (especially with regards to the OLYMPIC mark) and I am very annoyed that the Greek GAC rep is not with me on this L**** ** ** Anyway, the next call is scheduled for next Wednesday and Jeff, chairing the group, is asking for any comments by Sunday. Apologies for sending this quite late.**** ** ** Thanks**** ** ** KK**** ** ** Dr. Konstantinos Komaitis,**** ** ** Senior Lecturer,**** Director of Postgraduate Instructional Courses**** Director of LLM Information Technology and Telecommunications Law**** University of Strathclyde,**** The Law School,**** Graham Hills building, **** 50 George Street, Glasgow G1 1BA **** UK**** tel: +44 (0)141 548 4306**** http://www.routledgemedia.com/books/The-Current-State-of-Domain-Name-Regulat... **** Selected publications: http://hq.ssrn.com/submissions/MyPapers.cfm?partid=501038**** Website: www.komaitis.org**** ** ** *From:* owner-gnso-iocrc-dt@icann.org [mailto:owner-gnso-iocrc-dt@icann.org] *On Behalf Of *Neuman, Jeff *Sent:* Πέμπτη, 26 Ιανουαρίου 2012 1:48 πμ *To:* gnso-iocrc-dt@icann.org *Subject:* [gnso-iocrc-dt] Questions/Options for Protection of IOC/Red Cross Names at Top Level**** ** ** All, Thanks for the very productive session today during our call. Given the feedback on the call, we have revised the questions and options for protecting the IOC and Red Cross/Red Crescent names at the top level. On the call, we discussed a fifth option for Question 1 which included the notion of a letter of non-objection from either the IOC/Red Cross or a relevant governmental entity (See options 5(a) and 5(b) below). It also occurred to me after the call that there is a sixth option, which enable an appeal process (like option 4) for entities that apply for strings that are found to have string similarity, but are unable to secure a letter of non-objection from the IOC/Red Cross or the relevant governmental authority, but still nonetheless have legitimate rights to the string. Options 6(a) and 6(b) may be overkill, but I wanted to make sure all the options are on the table. **** As requested during the call, these questions/options are being presented for your review and discussion within your respective groups. Please provide any comments and/or feedback you may have *by Sunday, February 5th*. This will enable us to assimilate the responses prior to our next call on February 8th. Thank you very much in advance for your consideration and time. *Question 1. How should the Olympic and Red Cross/Red Crescent Terms be Treated in the Current Application Round ** GAC Proposal *At the top level, the request is to protect the Olympic and Red Cross terms like the words “test” and “example” in the Applicant Guidebook (Section 2.2.1.2), extending those terms to multiple languages and receiving consideration during the String Similarity review. Right now, these terms (in not every language) is in the section entitled “Strings Ineligible for Registration” and would not invoke String Similarity Review. * *· *Option 1*: Recommend no changes to Guidebook and reject GAC Proposal. This means that the names set forth in 2.2.1.2.3: a) Are not considered “Reserved Names” b) Applied for strings are *not* reviewed for similarity to the names in Section 2.2.1.2.3. * *· *Option 2:* Treat the terms set forth in Section 2.2..1.2.3 as “reserved names” under Section 2.2.1.2. This means that: a) the names are not available as gTLD strings to anyone; and b) applied-for gTLD strings are reviewed during the String Similarity review to determine whether they are similar to those in Section 2.2.1.2.3. An application for a gTLD string that is identified as too similar to a Reserved Name will not pass this review. c) Like other applied for gTLDs not passing String Similarity Review, there is *no* appeal. · *Option 3*: Treat the terms set forth in Section 2.2.1.2.3 as “modified reserved names” meaning: a) The names are available as gTLD strings only to the International Olympic Committee, International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement, as applicable. b) applied-for gTLD strings are reviewed during the String Similarity review to determine whether they are similar to those in Section 2.2.1.2.3. An application for a gTLD string that is identified as too similar to a Reserved Name will not pass this review. c) Like other applied for gTLDs not passing String Similarity Review, there is *no* appeal. · *Option 4a* – Same as Option 2, except there would be an appeal process for those organizations that can demonstrate legitimate rights to the “reserved names.” Appeal mechanism TBD. · *Option 4b* – Same as Option 3, except there would be an appeal process for those organizations that can demonstrate legitimate rights to the “modified reserved names.” Appeal mechanism TBD. · *Option 5a*: Same as Option 3 except that the “modified reserve names” are available as gTLD strings only to the International Olympic Committee, International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement or, to those entities receiving a letter of non-objection from the International Olympic Committee, International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement as applicable. · *Option 5b*: Same as Option 5a but also to include entities receiving a letter of non-objection from a relevant government. · *Option 6a*: Same as Option 5a, except that there would be an appeal process for those entities that can demonstrate legitimate rights to the “modified reserved names.” Appeal mechanism TBD. · *Option 6b*: Same as Option 5b, except there would be an appeal process for those entities that can demonstrate legitimate rights to the “modified reserved names.” Appeal mechanism TBD. *Question 2. Should the protections set forth in Question 1 apply to languages in addition to those set forth in the chart in Section 2.2.1.2.3? If yes, which additional languages? *a) *Option 1*: No, just the languages set forth in the Applicant Guidebook b) *Option 2*: Accept GAC Proposal stating asking for protection in “*multiple languages -* all translations of the listed names in languages used on the Internet.” c) *Option 3*: Extending protections to other languages, but a subset of languages. * **Question 3. Should the Protections in Questions 1 and 2 apply to subsequent gTLD rounds? *a) *Option 1*: Yes, it should apply in all future rounds b) *Option 2:* No, it should only apply to this current round. c) *Option 3*: It should apply in this current round with no decision on subsequent rounds. We should evaluate the results of this initial round, document lessons learned, and then decide on recommendations on subsequent rounds based on the results of the evaluation.**** ** ** ** ** *Jeffrey J. Neuman Neustar, Inc. / Vice President, Business Affairs* 21575 Ridgetop Circle, Sterling, VA 20166 *Office:** *+1.571.434.5772 *Mobile: *+1.202.549.5079 *Fax: * +1.703.738.7965 */* jeff.neuman@neustar.biz */* www.neustar.biz **** ------------------------------ The information contained in this e-mail message is intended only for the use of the recipient(s) named above and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient you have received this e-mail message in error and any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately and delete the original message.**** ** **
On 2 Feb 2012, at 14:30, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
Should ALAC have a stance on the TLD reservation of the Red Cross and Olympic terms?
Personally, I think they should be handled differently. I have no problem with the Red [Cross|Crescent|Diamond] names (and their multilingual and IDN equivalents) being reserved because these are groups that do charitable work and collect funds for relief of famines, natural disasters and other emergencies.
OTOH, The international olympic movement, while non-profit, does not collect emergency funds in the same way as the Red Cross. Furthermore, I have seen olympic committees in various countries aggressively shut down innocent users (like family-run Greek restaurants using "Olympic" in their name) that are neither competing nor confusing with the athletic organization.
(How soon before they go after the largest Greek airline?)
In any case, my own preference is to support reservation of the Red Cross names but oppose similar protection offered to Olympic ones (and allow contentious applications to be objected to in the appropriate way as required).
Evan How do you make a policy statement that gives one NGO "special status" without giving it to others? I like your reasoning - just wondering how it could be worded to be narrow enough .. Regards Michele in a personal capacity (if I have one .. ) Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions ♞ Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection ICANN Accredited Registrar http://www.blacknight.com/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://blacknight.biz http://mneylon.tel Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 US: 213-233-1612 UK: 0844 484 9361 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Facebook: http://fb.me/blacknight Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
Hi Michele, Personally I'd prefer *no* exceptions, confident that conventional TLD objection procedures would prevent any red-cross-related application to come from anyone but the IFRC in Geneva or its authorized agents. I'd even support the ALAC public-interest objection process used for this, and would have no hesitation initiation the objection process myself in such a case. But the GAC seems hell-bent on having some kind of exception(s). IIRC, the Red Cross is considered an exceptional institution. I was told by people I trust that there was no concept of a non-profit corporation in Japan before the Red Cross tried to establish, and there was a specific vote in the Diet to allow it. So such exceptionalism is not without precedent. (And happy birthday, BTW!) - Evan On 2 February 2012 10:37, Michele Neylon :: Blacknight < michele@blacknight.ie> wrote:
On 2 Feb 2012, at 14:30, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
Should ALAC have a stance on the TLD reservation of the Red Cross and Olympic terms?
Personally, I think they should be handled differently. I have no problem with the Red [Cross|Crescent|Diamond] names (and their multilingual and IDN equivalents) being reserved because these are groups that do charitable work and collect funds for relief of famines, natural disasters and other emergencies.
OTOH, The international olympic movement, while non-profit, does not collect emergency funds in the same way as the Red Cross. Furthermore, I have seen olympic committees in various countries aggressively shut down innocent users (like family-run Greek restaurants using "Olympic" in their name) that are neither competing nor confusing with the athletic organization.
(How soon before they go after the largest Greek airline?)
In any case, my own preference is to support reservation of the Red Cross names but oppose similar protection offered to Olympic ones (and allow contentious applications to be objected to in the appropriate way as required).
Evan
How do you make a policy statement that gives one NGO "special status" without giving it to others?
I like your reasoning - just wondering how it could be worded to be narrow enough ..
Regards
Michele in a personal capacity (if I have one .. )
Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions ♞ Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection ICANN Accredited Registrar http://www.blacknight.com/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://blacknight.biz http://mneylon.tel Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 US: 213-233-1612 UK: 0844 484 9361 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Facebook: http://fb.me/blacknight Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
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I think that we should not make any exception for Red Cross because it can have adverse impact on "exceptions". Firstly, on the issue of prioritisation of NGOs is not our core business and we should not get involved lest we open a can of worms. This is not to take away from the excellent work that Red Cross does. I have been a member of Red Cross since I was eight years old. I think everyone should be treated equally unless there is clearly an uneven playing field. On Fri, Feb 3, 2012 at 6:07 AM, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> wrote:
Hi Michele,
Personally I'd prefer *no* exceptions, confident that conventional TLD objection procedures would prevent any red-cross-related application to come from anyone but the IFRC in Geneva or its authorized agents. I'd even support the ALAC public-interest objection process used for this, and would have no hesitation initiation the objection process myself in such a case.
But the GAC seems hell-bent on having some kind of exception(s).
IIRC, the Red Cross is considered an exceptional institution. I was told by people I trust that there was no concept of a non-profit corporation in Japan before the Red Cross tried to establish, and there was a specific vote in the Diet to allow it. So such exceptionalism is not without precedent.
(And happy birthday, BTW!)
- Evan
On 2 February 2012 10:37, Michele Neylon :: Blacknight < michele@blacknight.ie> wrote:
On 2 Feb 2012, at 14:30, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
Should ALAC have a stance on the TLD reservation of the Red Cross and Olympic terms?
Personally, I think they should be handled differently. I have no
problem
with the Red [Cross|Crescent|Diamond] names (and their multilingual and IDN equivalents) being reserved because these are groups that do charitable work and collect funds for relief of famines, natural disasters and other emergencies.
OTOH, The international olympic movement, while non-profit, does not collect emergency funds in the same way as the Red Cross. Furthermore, I have seen olympic committees in various countries aggressively shut down innocent users (like family-run Greek restaurants using "Olympic" in their name) that are neither competing nor confusing with the athletic organization.
(How soon before they go after the largest Greek airline?)
In any case, my own preference is to support reservation of the Red Cross names but oppose similar protection offered to Olympic ones (and allow contentious applications to be objected to in the appropriate way as required).
Evan
How do you make a policy statement that gives one NGO "special status" without giving it to others?
I like your reasoning - just wondering how it could be worded to be narrow enough ..
Regards
Michele in a personal capacity (if I have one .. )
Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions ♞ Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection ICANN Accredited Registrar http://www.blacknight.com/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://blacknight.biz http://mneylon.tel Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 US: 213-233-1612 UK: 0844 484 9361 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Facebook: http://fb.me/blacknight Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
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Evan On 2 Feb 2012, at 17:07, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
Hi Michele,
Personally I'd prefer *no* exceptions, confident that conventional TLD objection procedures would prevent any red-cross-related application to come from anyone but the IFRC in Geneva or its authorized agents. I'd even support the ALAC public-interest objection process used for this, and would have no hesitation initiation the objection process myself in such a case.
Similar to my view so :)
But the GAC seems hell-bent on having some kind of exception(s).
Agreed.
IIRC, the Red Cross is considered an exceptional institution. I was told by people I trust that there was no concept of a non-profit corporation in Japan before the Red Cross tried to establish, and there was a specific vote in the Diet to allow it. So such exceptionalism is not without precedent.
Interesting
(And happy birthday, BTW!)
Thanks :) Not for another 45 minutes here!
- Evan
On 2 February 2012 10:37, Michele Neylon :: Blacknight < michele@blacknight.ie> wrote:
On 2 Feb 2012, at 14:30, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
Should ALAC have a stance on the TLD reservation of the Red Cross and Olympic terms?
Personally, I think they should be handled differently. I have no problem with the Red [Cross|Crescent|Diamond] names (and their multilingual and IDN equivalents) being reserved because these are groups that do charitable work and collect funds for relief of famines, natural disasters and other emergencies.
OTOH, The international olympic movement, while non-profit, does not collect emergency funds in the same way as the Red Cross. Furthermore, I have seen olympic committees in various countries aggressively shut down innocent users (like family-run Greek restaurants using "Olympic" in their name) that are neither competing nor confusing with the athletic organization.
(How soon before they go after the largest Greek airline?)
In any case, my own preference is to support reservation of the Red Cross names but oppose similar protection offered to Olympic ones (and allow contentious applications to be objected to in the appropriate way as required).
Evan
How do you make a policy statement that gives one NGO "special status" without giving it to others?
I like your reasoning - just wondering how it could be worded to be narrow enough ..
Regards
Michele in a personal capacity (if I have one .. )
Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions ♞ Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection ICANN Accredited Registrar http://www.blacknight.com/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://blacknight.biz http://mneylon.tel Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 US: 213-233-1612 UK: 0844 484 9361 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Facebook: http://fb.me/blacknight Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
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Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection ICANN Accredited Registrar http://www.blacknight.com/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://blacknight.mobi/ http://mneylon.tel Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 US: 213-233-1612 UK: 0844 484 9361 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
Hi, Both IOC and IFRC have been given an exception for this round of new gTLDs by direct BoardStaff fiat, though it is against every previous policy recommendation and on the advice, for some meaning of 'advice', of just one AC. I just do not understand why they would be granted anything further than that. avri On 2 Feb 2012, at 18:15, Michele Neylon :: Blacknight wrote:
Evan On 2 Feb 2012, at 17:07, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
Hi Michele,
Personally I'd prefer *no* exceptions, confident that conventional TLD objection procedures would prevent any red-cross-related application to come from anyone but the IFRC in Geneva or its authorized agents. I'd even support the ALAC public-interest objection process used for this, and would have no hesitation initiation the objection process myself in such a case.
Similar to my view so :)
But the GAC seems hell-bent on having some kind of exception(s).
Agreed.
IIRC, the Red Cross is considered an exceptional institution. I was told by people I trust that there was no concept of a non-profit corporation in Japan before the Red Cross tried to establish, and there was a specific vote in the Diet to allow it. So such exceptionalism is not without precedent.
Interesting
(And happy birthday, BTW!)
Thanks :)
Not for another 45 minutes here!
- Evan
On 2 February 2012 10:37, Michele Neylon :: Blacknight < michele@blacknight.ie> wrote:
On 2 Feb 2012, at 14:30, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
Should ALAC have a stance on the TLD reservation of the Red Cross and Olympic terms?
Personally, I think they should be handled differently. I have no problem with the Red [Cross|Crescent|Diamond] names (and their multilingual and IDN equivalents) being reserved because these are groups that do charitable work and collect funds for relief of famines, natural disasters and other emergencies.
OTOH, The international olympic movement, while non-profit, does not collect emergency funds in the same way as the Red Cross. Furthermore, I have seen olympic committees in various countries aggressively shut down innocent users (like family-run Greek restaurants using "Olympic" in their name) that are neither competing nor confusing with the athletic organization.
(How soon before they go after the largest Greek airline?)
In any case, my own preference is to support reservation of the Red Cross names but oppose similar protection offered to Olympic ones (and allow contentious applications to be objected to in the appropriate way as required).
Evan
How do you make a policy statement that gives one NGO "special status" without giving it to others?
I like your reasoning - just wondering how it could be worded to be narrow enough ..
Regards
Michele in a personal capacity (if I have one .. )
Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions ♞ Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection ICANN Accredited Registrar http://www.blacknight.com/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://blacknight.biz http://mneylon.tel Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 US: 213-233-1612 UK: 0844 484 9361 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Facebook: http://fb.me/blacknight Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
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Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection ICANN Accredited Registrar http://www.blacknight.com/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://blacknight.mobi/ http://mneylon.tel Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 US: 213-233-1612 UK: 0844 484 9361 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
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Michele wrote:
How do you make a policy statement that gives one NGO "special status" without giving it to others?
I like your reasoning - just wondering how it could be worded to be narrow enough ..
Good observation. Please note the term NGO has no generally agreed legal definition. Quote from wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-governmental_organization The number of internationally operating NGOs is estimated at 40,000.[1] Best, Elisabeth Porteneuve Le 02/02/2012 16:37, Michele Neylon :: Blacknight a écrit :
On 2 Feb 2012, at 14:30, Evan Leibovitch wrote:
Should ALAC have a stance on the TLD reservation of the Red Cross and Olympic terms?
Personally, I think they should be handled differently. I have no problem with the Red [Cross|Crescent|Diamond] names (and their multilingual and IDN equivalents) being reserved because these are groups that do charitable work and collect funds for relief of famines, natural disasters and other emergencies.
OTOH, The international olympic movement, while non-profit, does not collect emergency funds in the same way as the Red Cross. Furthermore, I have seen olympic committees in various countries aggressively shut down innocent users (like family-run Greek restaurants using "Olympic" in their name) that are neither competing nor confusing with the athletic organization.
(How soon before they go after the largest Greek airline?)
In any case, my own preference is to support reservation of the Red Cross names but oppose similar protection offered to Olympic ones (and allow contentious applications to be objected to in the appropriate way as required).
Evan
How do you make a policy statement that gives one NGO "special status" without giving it to others?
I like your reasoning - just wondering how it could be worded to be narrow enough ..
Regards
Michele in a personal capacity (if I have one .. )
Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions ♞ Hosting& Colocation, Brand Protection ICANN Accredited Registrar http://www.blacknight.com/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://blacknight.biz http://mneylon.tel Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 US: 213-233-1612 UK: 0844 484 9361 Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Facebook: http://fb.me/blacknight Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
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Please note the term NGO has no generally agreed legal definition.
True, but the Red Cross and the IOC are both international treaty organizations. That's why they get to register in .INT. Those are pretty well defined. I agree that the existing objection process should take care of any funny registrations, or if not, the gTLD process has worse problems than .REDCROSS. By the way, in the United States, RED CROSS is the registered trademark for a brand of table salt (since 1895), for a brand of sterile cotton for medical purposes (since 1898), for a brand of womens' shoes (since 1898), for a brand of toothache drops (since 1876), for a brand of mattresses (since 1904), and for a brand of canned fruits and vegetables (since 1876.) Under ICANN's wonderful trademark rules, don't they get priority over some wussy non-profit? R's, John http://www.cargill.com/salt/brands/red-cross/index.jsp http://www.jnjredcross.com/medical-wound-tape-bandages http://www.haband.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/products.detail/categoryID/cad3e1... http://us.mentholatum.com/oral.aspx Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly
participants (6)
-
Avri Doria -
Elisabeth Porteneuve -
Evan Leibovitch -
John R. Levine -
Michele Neylon :: Blacknight -
Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro