Re: [At-Large] Traditional Cultural Expressions #ICANN #WIPO
In the cases of AMAZON and PATAGONIA, it was primarily the relevant governments' power over Geographic Names that prevails. It has triggered forceful debates about whether GNs are really subject to governmental power or sovereignty. Remember the research report presented by the AU professors at Durban Public Forum? In addition, the government did not really interfere these 2 GN applications, largely through GAC, until the late stage, while the local user community had had filed many protests and oppositions at the ICANN. So I assume it would be a good idea, as Sala suggested, for ALAC/at-large to research the "community right" over the traditional cultural expressions in the NEXT round (if any) of new gTLD expansion program. It seems clear that the so-called community objection procedure barely woks. FYI, WIPO has been working on this issue for a decade and hopefully there would be a breakthrough 2014 in the negotiation of the "draft provisions/articles on protection of TCE and TK". I'm pretty sure that protection of TCE in DNS has not yet been contemplated in the international lawmaking. So the research could be timely and useful. What do you think to proceed to do the research? Forming a working group or it can be done through new gTLD WG? Hong Professor Dr. Hong Xue Director of Beijing Normal University Institute for Internet Policy & Law (IIPL) Co-Director of UNCITRAL-BNU Joint Certificate Program on International E-Commerce Law http://www.iipl.org.cn/ 19 Xin Jie Kou Wai Street Beijing 100875 China On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Seth M Reiss <seth.reiss@lex-ip.com>wrote:
Yes. And how does AMAZON and PATAGONIA fit in here?
Seth
-----Original Message----- From: at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Satish Babu Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 5:38 PM To: At-Large Worldwide Subject: Re: [At-Large] Traditional Cultural Expressions #ICANN #WIPO
Dear Sala, Wolf and all I too agree on the need to ensure that cultural heritage remains in the public domain. It would be interesting to study this problem in greater depth and suggest to our communities how we could support them.
satish
On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 6:08 AM, Wolf Ludwig <wolf.ludwig@comunica-ch.net>wrote:
this is just to confirm that I entirely agree with your elaborations and thoughts below on "how to protect traditional knowledge and indigenous communities" from any usurpation by the right-holders industry. Some of us may recall stories about traditionals like "In the jungle ..." and related rights disputes -- see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lion_Sleeps_Tonight
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First of all HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! To you and whole family!! Second I totally agree and remember Wipo discussion from long time. But also, countries like mine, should have raised the hand many years ago when Amazon registered its trade mark in these same countries without any opposition. Vanda Scartezini Polo Consultores Associados Av. Paulista 1159, cj 1004 01311-200- Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Land Line: +55 11 3266.6253 Mobile: + 55 11 98181.1464 On 1/30/14, 5:32, "Hong Xue" <hongxueipr@gmail.com> wrote:
In the cases of AMAZON and PATAGONIA, it was primarily the relevant governments' power over Geographic Names that prevails. It has triggered forceful debates about whether GNs are really subject to governmental power or sovereignty. Remember the research report presented by the AU professors at Durban Public Forum? In addition, the government did not really interfere these 2 GN applications, largely through GAC, until the late stage, while the local user community had had filed many protests and oppositions at the ICANN.
So I assume it would be a good idea, as Sala suggested, for ALAC/at-large to research the "community right" over the traditional cultural expressions in the NEXT round (if any) of new gTLD expansion program. It seems clear that the so-called community objection procedure barely woks.
FYI, WIPO has been working on this issue for a decade and hopefully there would be a breakthrough 2014 in the negotiation of the "draft provisions/articles on protection of TCE and TK". I'm pretty sure that protection of TCE in DNS has not yet been contemplated in the international lawmaking. So the research could be timely and useful.
What do you think to proceed to do the research? Forming a working group or it can be done through new gTLD WG?
Hong
Professor Dr. Hong Xue Director of Beijing Normal University Institute for Internet Policy & Law (IIPL) Co-Director of UNCITRAL-BNU Joint Certificate Program on International E-Commerce Law http://www.iipl.org.cn/ 19 Xin Jie Kou Wai Street Beijing 100875 China
On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Seth M Reiss <seth.reiss@lex-ip.com>wrote:
Yes. And how does AMAZON and PATAGONIA fit in here?
Seth
-----Original Message----- From: at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Satish Babu Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 5:38 PM To: At-Large Worldwide Subject: Re: [At-Large] Traditional Cultural Expressions #ICANN #WIPO
Dear Sala, Wolf and all I too agree on the need to ensure that cultural heritage remains in the public domain. It would be interesting to study this problem in greater depth and suggest to our communities how we could support them.
satish
On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 6:08 AM, Wolf Ludwig <wolf.ludwig@comunica-ch.net>wrote:
this is just to confirm that I entirely agree with your elaborations and thoughts below on "how to protect traditional knowledge and indigenous communities" from any usurpation by the right-holders industry. Some of us may recall stories about traditionals like "In the jungle ..." and related rights disputes -- see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lion_Sleeps_Tonight
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Many thanks Vanda. Yes, countries should have been monitoring their marks etc. Hong, I think the lady who spoke in Durban at the Public Forum was probably Heather Forrest: Protection of Geographic Names in International Law and Domain Name System Policy (Information Law) She was also probably trying to sell her book and I note that it's available on Amazon. Apparently she is listed as a member of ICANN's IP constituency. Kind Regards, Sala Sent from my iPad
On Jan 31, 2014, at 1:20 AM, Vanda Scartezini <vanda@uol.com.br> wrote:
First of all HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! To you and whole family!! Second I totally agree and remember Wipo discussion from long time. But also, countries like mine, should have raised the hand many years ago when Amazon registered its trade mark in these same countries without any opposition. Vanda Scartezini Polo Consultores Associados Av. Paulista 1159, cj 1004 01311-200- Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Land Line: +55 11 3266.6253 Mobile: + 55 11 98181.1464
On 1/30/14, 5:32, "Hong Xue" <hongxueipr@gmail.com> wrote:
In the cases of AMAZON and PATAGONIA, it was primarily the relevant governments' power over Geographic Names that prevails. It has triggered forceful debates about whether GNs are really subject to governmental power or sovereignty. Remember the research report presented by the AU professors at Durban Public Forum? In addition, the government did not really interfere these 2 GN applications, largely through GAC, until the late stage, while the local user community had had filed many protests and oppositions at the ICANN.
So I assume it would be a good idea, as Sala suggested, for ALAC/at-large to research the "community right" over the traditional cultural expressions in the NEXT round (if any) of new gTLD expansion program. It seems clear that the so-called community objection procedure barely woks.
FYI, WIPO has been working on this issue for a decade and hopefully there would be a breakthrough 2014 in the negotiation of the "draft provisions/articles on protection of TCE and TK". I'm pretty sure that protection of TCE in DNS has not yet been contemplated in the international lawmaking. So the research could be timely and useful.
What do you think to proceed to do the research? Forming a working group or it can be done through new gTLD WG?
Hong
Professor Dr. Hong Xue Director of Beijing Normal University Institute for Internet Policy & Law (IIPL) Co-Director of UNCITRAL-BNU Joint Certificate Program on International E-Commerce Law http://www.iipl.org.cn/ 19 Xin Jie Kou Wai Street Beijing 100875 China
On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Seth M Reiss <seth.reiss@lex-ip.com>wrote:
Yes. And how does AMAZON and PATAGONIA fit in here?
Seth
-----Original Message----- From: at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Satish Babu Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 5:38 PM To: At-Large Worldwide Subject: Re: [At-Large] Traditional Cultural Expressions #ICANN #WIPO
Dear Sala, Wolf and all I too agree on the need to ensure that cultural heritage remains in the public domain. It would be interesting to study this problem in greater depth and suggest to our communities how we could support them.
satish
On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 6:08 AM, Wolf Ludwig <wolf.ludwig@comunica-ch.net>wrote:
this is just to confirm that I entirely agree with your elaborations and thoughts below on "how to protect traditional knowledge and indigenous communities" from any usurpation by the right-holders industry. Some of us may recall stories about traditionals like "In the jungle ..." and related rights disputes -- see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lion_Sleeps_Tonight
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Dear Sala and all, I totally support such a study to be performed. The need of TCE/related public domain' interests to be strongly protected is an important issue on which the communities should be advised. Best, Plamena 2014-01-30 Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com> :
Many thanks Vanda.
Yes, countries should have been monitoring their marks etc.
Hong, I think the lady who spoke in Durban at the Public Forum was probably Heather Forrest: Protection of Geographic Names in International Law and Domain Name System Policy (Information Law)
She was also probably trying to sell her book and I note that it's available on Amazon. Apparently she is listed as a member of ICANN's IP constituency.
Kind Regards, Sala
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 31, 2014, at 1:20 AM, Vanda Scartezini <vanda@uol.com.br> wrote:
First of all HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! To you and whole family!! Second I totally agree and remember Wipo discussion from long time. But also, countries like mine, should have raised the hand many years ago when Amazon registered its trade mark in these same countries without any opposition. Vanda Scartezini Polo Consultores Associados Av. Paulista 1159, cj 1004 01311-200- Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Land Line: +55 11 3266.6253 Mobile: + 55 11 98181.1464
On 1/30/14, 5:32, "Hong Xue" <hongxueipr@gmail.com> wrote:
In the cases of AMAZON and PATAGONIA, it was primarily the relevant governments' power over Geographic Names that prevails. It has triggered forceful debates about whether GNs are really subject to governmental power or sovereignty. Remember the research report presented by the AU professors at Durban Public Forum? In addition, the government did not really interfere these 2 GN applications, largely through GAC, until the late stage, while the local user community had had filed many protests and oppositions at the ICANN.
So I assume it would be a good idea, as Sala suggested, for ALAC/at-large to research the "community right" over the traditional cultural expressions in the NEXT round (if any) of new gTLD expansion program. It seems clear that the so-called community objection procedure barely woks.
FYI, WIPO has been working on this issue for a decade and hopefully there would be a breakthrough 2014 in the negotiation of the "draft provisions/articles on protection of TCE and TK". I'm pretty sure that protection of TCE in DNS has not yet been contemplated in the international lawmaking. So the research could be timely and useful.
What do you think to proceed to do the research? Forming a working group or it can be done through new gTLD WG?
Hong
Professor Dr. Hong Xue Director of Beijing Normal University Institute for Internet Policy & Law (IIPL) Co-Director of UNCITRAL-BNU Joint Certificate Program on International E-Commerce Law http://www.iipl.org.cn/ 19 Xin Jie Kou Wai Street Beijing 100875 China
On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Seth M Reiss <seth.reiss@lex-ip.com>wrote:
Yes. And how does AMAZON and PATAGONIA fit in here?
Seth
-----Original Message----- From: at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Satish Babu Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 5:38 PM To: At-Large Worldwide Subject: Re: [At-Large] Traditional Cultural Expressions #ICANN #WIPO
Dear Sala, Wolf and all I too agree on the need to ensure that cultural heritage remains in the public domain. It would be interesting to study this problem in greater depth and suggest to our communities how we could support them.
satish
On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 6:08 AM, Wolf Ludwig <wolf.ludwig@comunica-ch.net>wrote:
this is just to confirm that I entirely agree with your elaborations and thoughts below on "how to protect traditional knowledge and indigenous communities" from any usurpation by the right-holders industry. Some of us may recall stories about traditionals like "In the jungle ..." and related rights disputes -- see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lion_Sleeps_Tonight
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@ManagingIP: Amazon has won #ICC determination over .amazon #newgtld. IO's complaint rejected. Puts pressure on GAC now #icann http://t.co/mps56wXmIO Link directo al texto: http://www.iccwbo.org/Data/Documents/Buisness-Services/Dispute-Resolution-Se... "107. On the merits of the Objections the Expert has found that the IO has sufficiently proven the strong relation between the Strings and the Amazon Community. Instead, the IO has not shown that there is substantial opposition to the Application within that community or that the Application would lead to substantial detriment. These findings make it unnecessary to decide on the clear delineation test. " Erick ---- Eric Brunner-Williams said in facebook when he shared my post a north american e-tailer applied to icann to expropriate the name of the largest riparian region of south america, where indigenous peoples are still routinely displaced and/or killed consequent to natural resource extraction by out-of-region corporations. the at-large organization, responsible under icann's bylaws to advise the icann board on issues in the public interest arising "at large", declined to oppose the expropriation of the south american regional identifier by the north american e-tailer. the independent objector however did find sufficient grounds to object to this expropriation. today the adjudicator for such complaints dismissed the independent objector's case, the language of the dismissal is in the next para. "On the merits of the Objections the Expert has found that the IO has sufficiently proven the strong relation between the Strings and the Amazon Community. Instead, the IO has not shown that there is substantial opposition to the Application within that community or that the Application would lead to substantial detriment." Here the comments about Eric Brunner Post Erick Iriarte Ahon Where is Now The at-largo community? Thinking in travéls and hotels. Eric Brunner-Williams why yes it is, fine meals in exotic locations and continuous re-selection of the privilege. this is "the public interest". Jean Armour Polly What is laralo's position? Erick Iriarte Ahon Time to start The fight Erick Iriarte Ahon Laralo? Some days i really Shame that was The first ralo, and i was The Guy who signed The creation Of first ralo Eric Brunner-Williams it was an experiment. it has been captured by its incumbents for the cash value of travel support and the unchallenged external prestige value. "let the market decide" was the language of carlton, evan, etc. Erick Iriarte Ahon Delenda ALAC Est !!! Now! • ----- So ALAC could save and protect the users, and their communities or is only created to be a travel-agency for some people. Erick
There is SO much misinformation given here from EBW that I won't even start. I am copying this message to Evan and Carlton who were personally slandered and misquoted herein. D On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Erick Iriarte Ahon <eiriarte@alfa-redi.org
wrote:
@ManagingIP: Amazon has won #ICC determination over .amazon #newgtld. IO's complaint rejected. Puts pressure on GAC now #icann http://t.co/mps56wXmIO
Link directo al texto: http://www.iccwbo.org/Data/Documents/Buisness-Services/Dispute-Resolution-Se...
"107. On the merits of the Objections the Expert has found that the IO has sufficiently proven the strong relation between the Strings and the Amazon Community. Instead, the IO has not shown that there is substantial opposition to the Application within that community or that the Application would lead to substantial detriment. These findings make it unnecessary to decide on the clear delineation test. "
Erick
----
Eric Brunner-Williams said in facebook when he shared my post
a north american e-tailer applied to icann to expropriate the name of the largest riparian region of south america, where indigenous peoples are still routinely displaced and/or killed consequent to natural resource extraction by out-of-region corporations.
the at-large organization, responsible under icann's bylaws to advise the icann board on issues in the public interest arising "at large", declined to oppose the expropriation of the south american regional identifier by the north american e-tailer.
the independent objector however did find sufficient grounds to object to this expropriation.
today the adjudicator for such complaints dismissed the independent objector's case, the language of the dismissal is in the next para.
"On the merits of the Objections the Expert has found that the IO has sufficiently proven the strong relation between the Strings and the Amazon Community. Instead, the IO has not shown that there is substantial opposition to the Application within that community or that the Application would lead to substantial detriment."
Here the comments about Eric Brunner Post
Erick Iriarte Ahon Where is Now The at-largo community? Thinking in travéls and hotels.
Eric Brunner-Williams why yes it is, fine meals in exotic locations and continuous re-selection of the privilege. this is "the public interest".
Jean Armour Polly What is laralo's position?
Erick Iriarte Ahon Time to start The fight
Erick Iriarte Ahon Laralo? Some days i really Shame that was The first ralo, and i was The Guy who signed The creation Of first ralo
Eric Brunner-Williams it was an experiment. it has been captured by its incumbents for the cash value of travel support and the unchallenged external prestige value. "let the market decide" was the language of carlton, evan, etc.
Erick Iriarte Ahon Delenda ALAC Est !!! Now! *
-----
So ALAC could save and protect the users, and their communities or is only created to be a travel-agency for some people.
Erick
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On 30 January 2014 13:19, Darlene Thompson <thompson.darlene@gmail.com>wrote:
There is SO much misinformation given here from EBW that I won't even start. I am copying this message to Evan and Carlton who were personally slandered and misquoted herein.
No worries. I just consider the source. Life is too short to get caught up in bitterness or name-calling. As for the core point, the issue was one in which all of At-Large was invited to participate; subsequently ALAC decided as a group, after long consideration and a very detailed process, not to proceed with an objection against .amazon. - Evan
Well, apart from ALAC getting it wrong in that case, whether one reads .amazon or .health, the arguments of the so-called ICC 'experts' lack conviction. Such stuff does ICANN no credit. CW PS: The privatisation, through the DNS, of generic and geographical terms is wrong in principle. On 30 Jan 2014, at 19:45, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> wrote:
On 30 January 2014 13:19, Darlene Thompson <thompson.darlene@gmail.com>wrote:
There is SO much misinformation given here from EBW that I won't even start. I am copying this message to Evan and Carlton who were personally slandered and misquoted herein.
No worries. I just consider the source. Life is too short to get caught up in bitterness or name-calling.
As for the core point, the issue was one in which all of At-Large was invited to participate; subsequently ALAC decided as a group, after long consideration and a very detailed process, not to proceed with an objection against .amazon.
- Evan _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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Hi Christopher. On 30 January 2014 15:39, Christopher Wilkinson <cw@christopherwilkinson.eu>wrote: Well, apart from ALAC getting it wrong in that case,
I'm happy to have that debate, but would simply note at this point that it (the debate) has already been going on for years. You might not agree with the resolution but can at least be aware that this was something that did not slip through the cracks or avoid careful consideration. The recentl rulings simply fall consistent with ICANN's long-standing treatment of generic words as commodities -- a core principle that certainly pre-dates my arrival in At-Large and is essentially beyond challenge.
whether one reads .amazon or .health, the arguments of the so-called ICC 'experts' lack conviction.
Indeed. In fact the whole episode with .health -- the failure of the objections that we DID launch -- shows clearly that the ALAC objection process was "created in order to fail". That the Board would enable us to launch objections, but then allow the adjudicator to dismiss our right to have standing in the proceedings, is just insane and indicates our chances were doomed from the start.
Such stuff does ICANN no credit.
Absolutely agreed. PS: The privatisation, through the DNS, of generic and geographical
terms is wrong in principle.
As far as ICANN is concerned, that particular debate was crushed many years ago. This tenet can't be challenged without shaking the whole organization to the ground, and there are too many vested interests embedded into the culture to allow that to happen. ICANN has now become financially dependent upon the industry it was formed to oversee, and the consequences of that dependency are all around us. - Evan
Evan, Christopher, Michele & All, reading your comments on past practices, and looking forward from there, I find we should field a few questions, check whether independent research has provided plausible answers, and if not, seek our own truth. Viewed over a long period, DNS: - Has the DNS served the global public interest (with what mechanisms? in what meaningful way?), - Or has it mainly brought financial gain to DNSs (Domain Name Speculators)? Independent Reviewers (IRs): - Since they were set up, have Independent Reviewers made more rulings in favour of the general interest, or to the advantage of Domain Name businesses? - Is the rationale behind the current system of designating Independent Reviewers still valid, in light of the growing discrepancies between the hoarding of domain names for profit, and legitimate rights (territorial, indigenous, etc.)? - If we consider that IRs no longer constitute an adequate response, what alternative should we propose? What criteria would we consider paramount in the global public interest? ICANN's freedom from capture: - As has been frequently pointed out, the proportion of ICANN's budget provided by the business sector it is supposed to regulate, is on the rise. - If this situation makes ICANN more vulnerable to capture, what proposals can we make for an alternate and sustainable economic model? For my part, I would suggest looking at a) helping ICANN graduate from Pioneer Mode to Normal Mode: among other things, reducing the frequency and scope of ICANN international meetings, which is unparalleled in the business world, with the possible exception of Rotary and dentists (both of whom I admire). I'm told that three fifths of humanity is connected, so surely we can do more things with the Internet, even in terms of Inreach and Outreach? b) Demand that ICANN recognize that it already has, in part, a regulatory function. Open recognition would result in more authority, and hopefully more fairness. c) Review, more radically, the circuits of nomination to the ICANN Board. d) Ask the Board to task the CEO with devising a different budget (and revenue) structure, gradually less dependent on the sector ICANN is supposed to oversee. None of this is new. It just requires focus and determination. Jean-Jacques. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Evan Leibovitch" <evan@telly.org> To: "At-Large Worldwide" <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Sent: Vendredi 31 Janvier 2014 05:12:27 Subject: Re: [At-Large] about amazon and a conversation about ralo Hi Christopher. On 30 January 2014 15:39, Christopher Wilkinson <cw@christopherwilkinson.eu>wrote: Well, apart from ALAC getting it wrong in that case,
I'm happy to have that debate, but would simply note at this point that it (the debate) has already been going on for years. You might not agree with the resolution but can at least be aware that this was something that did not slip through the cracks or avoid careful consideration. The recentl rulings simply fall consistent with ICANN's long-standing treatment of generic words as commodities -- a core principle that certainly pre-dates my arrival in At-Large and is essentially beyond challenge.
whether one reads .amazon or .health, the arguments of the so-called ICC 'experts' lack conviction.
Indeed. In fact the whole episode with .health -- the failure of the objections that we DID launch -- shows clearly that the ALAC objection process was "created in order to fail". That the Board would enable us to launch objections, but then allow the adjudicator to dismiss our right to have standing in the proceedings, is just insane and indicates our chances were doomed from the start.
Such stuff does ICANN no credit.
Absolutely agreed. PS: The privatisation, through the DNS, of generic and geographical
terms is wrong in principle.
As far as ICANN is concerned, that particular debate was crushed many years ago. This tenet can't be challenged without shaking the whole organization to the ground, and there are too many vested interests embedded into the culture to allow that to happen. ICANN has now become financially dependent upon the industry it was formed to oversee, and the consequences of that dependency are all around us. - Evan _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Christopher Wilkinson < cw@christopherwilkinson.eu> wrote:
PS: The privatisation, through the DNS, of generic and geographical terms is wrong in principle.
Honestly now, here's the principled position I can understand....and would fully support. If that WAS the argument! I invite you to pull the WHOIS records for the string "amazon.com". As I understand it, this has been in quiet possession of some e-retailer or other for quite sometime. Consider that I do not have a single thought in my head about a possible meaning of the characters a-m-a-z-o-n or the string 'amazon' in context. I defy anyone to rubbish these facts: Characters long in the public domain, of one or other kind, exceptions applied, are adjudged property. If there were complaints then, they were rather muted. These properties were bequeathed. Or warranted. Or gifted as concessions. Or rented. Or otherwise endowed to individuals and groups. A market is forged. And particular constellations, flocculations or groupings of characters in what are deemed strings, known or hitherto unknown, and with exceptions applied, are valorised in that market. Mechanisms and strategems, acknowledged or variously disavowed, are raised to regulate that market. Then the question becomes who is 'fit and proper' to participate in this market. And, at what level. Here's a cut and paste job of what I said elsewhere.... "*But seriously, did any of you noticed that for all the community objections, not one made the case for 'free' strings? I looked carefully at the Limited Public Interest Objection circle and didn't find a disability. I even asked my crack researcher to help me. So, it got me to wondering, What was the value of the objection if it always was about 'don't delegate to that guy for he's a sumbitch'*!" -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* =============================
Dear Darlene: Let not your heart be troubled. -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* ============================= On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 1:19 PM, Darlene Thompson < thompson.darlene@gmail.com> wrote:
There is SO much misinformation given here from EBW that I won't even start. I am copying this message to Evan and Carlton who were personally slandered and misquoted herein.
D
On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Erick Iriarte Ahon < eiriarte@alfa-redi.org> wrote:
@ManagingIP: Amazon has won #ICC determination over .amazon #newgtld. IO's complaint rejected. Puts pressure on GAC now #icann http://t.co/mps56wXmIO
Link directo al texto: http://www.iccwbo.org/Data/Documents/Buisness-Services/Dispute-Resolution-Se...
"107. On the merits of the Objections the Expert has found that the IO has sufficiently proven the strong relation between the Strings and the Amazon Community. Instead, the IO has not shown that there is substantial opposition to the Application within that community or that the Application would lead to substantial detriment. These findings make it unnecessary to decide on the clear delineation test. "
Erick
----
Eric Brunner-Williams said in facebook when he shared my post
a north american e-tailer applied to icann to expropriate the name of the largest riparian region of south america, where indigenous peoples are still routinely displaced and/or killed consequent to natural resource extraction by out-of-region corporations.
the at-large organization, responsible under icann's bylaws to advise the icann board on issues in the public interest arising "at large", declined to oppose the expropriation of the south american regional identifier by the north american e-tailer.
the independent objector however did find sufficient grounds to object to this expropriation.
today the adjudicator for such complaints dismissed the independent objector's case, the language of the dismissal is in the next para.
"On the merits of the Objections the Expert has found that the IO has sufficiently proven the strong relation between the Strings and the Amazon Community. Instead, the IO has not shown that there is substantial opposition to the Application within that community or that the Application would lead to substantial detriment."
Here the comments about Eric Brunner Post
Erick Iriarte Ahon Where is Now The at-largo community? Thinking in travéls and hotels.
Eric Brunner-Williams why yes it is, fine meals in exotic locations and continuous re-selection of the privilege. this is "the public interest".
Jean Armour Polly What is laralo's position?
Erick Iriarte Ahon Time to start The fight
Erick Iriarte Ahon Laralo? Some days i really Shame that was The first ralo, and i was The Guy who signed The creation Of first ralo
Eric Brunner-Williams it was an experiment. it has been captured by its incumbents for the cash value of travel support and the unchallenged external prestige value. "let the market decide" was the language of carlton, evan, etc.
Erick Iriarte Ahon Delenda ALAC Est !!! Now! *
-----
So ALAC could save and protect the users, and their communities or is only created to be a travel-agency for some people.
Erick
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On Thursday 30 January 2014 07:12 PM, Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote:
Many thanks Vanda.
Yes, countries should have been monitoring their marks etc.
Why not civil society be doing it, on the presumption that civil society is there to safeguard public interest... What do they keep themselves busy with... parminder
Hong, I think the lady who spoke in Durban at the Public Forum was probably Heather Forrest: Protection of Geographic Names in International Law and Domain Name System Policy (Information Law)
She was also probably trying to sell her book and I note that it's available on Amazon. Apparently she is listed as a member of ICANN's IP constituency.
Kind Regards, Sala
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 31, 2014, at 1:20 AM, Vanda Scartezini <vanda@uol.com.br> wrote:
First of all HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! To you and whole family!! Second I totally agree and remember Wipo discussion from long time. But also, countries like mine, should have raised the hand many years ago when Amazon registered its trade mark in these same countries without any opposition. Vanda Scartezini Polo Consultores Associados Av. Paulista 1159, cj 1004 01311-200- Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Land Line: +55 11 3266.6253 Mobile: + 55 11 98181.1464
On 1/30/14, 5:32, "Hong Xue" <hongxueipr@gmail.com> wrote:
In the cases of AMAZON and PATAGONIA, it was primarily the relevant governments' power over Geographic Names that prevails. It has triggered forceful debates about whether GNs are really subject to governmental power or sovereignty. Remember the research report presented by the AU professors at Durban Public Forum? In addition, the government did not really interfere these 2 GN applications, largely through GAC, until the late stage, while the local user community had had filed many protests and oppositions at the ICANN.
So I assume it would be a good idea, as Sala suggested, for ALAC/at-large to research the "community right" over the traditional cultural expressions in the NEXT round (if any) of new gTLD expansion program. It seems clear that the so-called community objection procedure barely woks.
FYI, WIPO has been working on this issue for a decade and hopefully there would be a breakthrough 2014 in the negotiation of the "draft provisions/articles on protection of TCE and TK". I'm pretty sure that protection of TCE in DNS has not yet been contemplated in the international lawmaking. So the research could be timely and useful.
What do you think to proceed to do the research? Forming a working group or it can be done through new gTLD WG?
Hong
Professor Dr. Hong Xue Director of Beijing Normal University Institute for Internet Policy & Law (IIPL) Co-Director of UNCITRAL-BNU Joint Certificate Program on International E-Commerce Law http://www.iipl.org.cn/ 19 Xin Jie Kou Wai Street Beijing 100875 China
On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Seth M Reiss <seth.reiss@lex-ip.com>wrote:
Yes. And how does AMAZON and PATAGONIA fit in here?
Seth
-----Original Message----- From: at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Satish Babu Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 5:38 PM To: At-Large Worldwide Subject: Re: [At-Large] Traditional Cultural Expressions #ICANN #WIPO
Dear Sala, Wolf and all I too agree on the need to ensure that cultural heritage remains in the public domain. It would be interesting to study this problem in greater depth and suggest to our communities how we could support them.
satish
On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 6:08 AM, Wolf Ludwig <wolf.ludwig@comunica-ch.net>wrote:
this is just to confirm that I entirely agree with your elaborations and thoughts below on "how to protect traditional knowledge and indigenous communities" from any usurpation by the right-holders industry. Some of us may recall stories about traditionals like "In the jungle ..." and related rights disputes -- see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lion_Sleeps_Tonight
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participants (11)
-
Carlton Samuels -
Christopher Wilkinson -
Darlene Thompson -
Erick Iriarte Ahon -
Evan Leibovitch -
Hong Xue -
parminder -
Plamena Popova -
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro -
Subrenat, Jean-Jacques -
Vanda Scartezini