Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA
Dear All, Apologies for the crossposting but this I found interesting: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/01/c_134373596.htm SAO PAULO, June 30 (Xinhua) -- Jack Ma, founder of China's ecommerce giant Alibaba, was elected co-chairman of the Global Internet Governance Alliance (GIGA) at the first general meeting of GIGA council held here Tuesday. "This election signifies trust in China's Internet, and how China governs its Internet," said Ma. The meeting was set to discuss key issues related to international cooperation on Internet governance while highlighting China's role. Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff had called for a just and equal global Internet environment and regarded China as the "key factor to the success of global Internet governance," said Fadi Chehade, president of the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN). Rousseff had suggested he find Chinese partners for cooperation, Chehade said. To establish a multiple-stakeholder platform, Chehade said that dialogues among different partners should be improved, the platform should be transparent and just, and all stakeholders should be able to equally participate in global Internet governance. GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions. -- *Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala T* *P. O. Box 17862* *Suva* *Republic of Fiji* *Cell: +679 7656770; * *Home: +679 3362003* *Twitter: @SalanietaT* *"You will never do anything in this world without courage. It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honour." Aristotle*
On Thursday 02 July 2015 05:56 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro wrote:
Dear All,
Apologies for the crossposting but this I found interesting:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/01/c_134373596.htm
SAO PAULO, June 30 (Xinhua) -- Jack Ma, founder of China's ecommerce giant Alibaba, was elected co-chairman of the Global Internet Governance Alliance (GIGA) at the first general meeting of GIGA council held here Tuesday.
"This election signifies trust in China's Internet, and how China governs its Internet," said Ma
Very interesting! Just jogging my memory but wasnt China's Internet related attitude the original reason for so much opposition to UN based IG system. But one reckons it is always all right when you come, as they say in India, suited-booted, and are the rich and the elite. A clear proof that anti UN ism was not against 'dangers to Internet freedom' but against people and democracy . Against the latter taking control of how the Internet and its associated digital technologies will evolve. The powerful are always ready to make deals with other powerful and that was always what the MetMundial Initiative was about. It is the worst thing to happen to the global IG scene ever. A complete and largely formal take over of global IG by the elite - political as well as economic. A largely transparent cooptation in the IG arena of the elite from the developing countries by that of the developed ones. The only more unfortunate thing has been that a large party of civil society, especially its so called leaders, have merrily gone along, god knows for what. parminder
.
The meeting was set to discuss key issues related to international cooperation on Internet governance while highlighting China's role.
Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff had called for a just and equal global Internet environment and regarded China as the "key factor to the success of global Internet governance," said Fadi Chehade, president of the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN).
Rousseff had suggested he find Chinese partners for cooperation, Chehade said.
To establish a multiple-stakeholder platform, Chehade said that dialogues among different partners should be improved, the platform should be transparent and just, and all stakeholders should be able to equally participate in global Internet governance.
GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions.
-- *Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala T * *P. O. Box 17862 * *Suva * *Republic of Fiji
* *Cell: +679 7656770; * *Home: +679 3362003 * *Twitter: @SalanietaT*
/* */ /*"You will never do anything in this world without courage. It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honour."
Aristotle*/
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I joined the event remotely and listened to Ja Ma's speech with keen interest. Quite frankly, I was pleasantly surprised how direct he was. I cannot be pessimistic as my friend Parminder and would urge us not to make the perfect the enemy of the good. For those who went to Sao Paulo and followed the evolution of the NMI, the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event. The Council has committed to do practical things to advance the outcomes from Sao Paulo, including advancing the work and role of the IGF and furthering the objectives of WSIS. Good enough. Now, Jack Ma (CEO of Alibaba, usually referred in metropolitan publications as 'the Chinese e-commerce giant') could have opted to sign up for the World Economic Forum (WEF)-led thing, the one that even as it utilised Orwellian-derived language to announce itself, baldly refuted the multistakeholder, equality-in-access approach to Internet governance. Instead, he signed with the Brazilian-initiated initiative. As I listened to Jack Ma, I had a sense that he truly understands connecting each of us to all of us is in the collective best interest, Alibaba included. I think he gets it that for most of us, the Internet is about development. I think he gets it that exploiting the Internet for profit does not preclude other dire uses. And he definitely understands that intrusions of one or other kind could be inimical to all our interests. So, what do you do? I will take the Council's word on its commitment. And since they have also embraced a model that allow us to talk to them and let them know if they go astray, we have a way to at least enjoin them to account. It is as good as it gets. -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* ============================= On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 7:26 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear All,
Apologies for the crossposting but this I found interesting:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/01/c_134373596.htm
SAO PAULO, June 30 (Xinhua) -- Jack Ma, founder of China's ecommerce giant Alibaba, was elected co-chairman of the Global Internet Governance Alliance (GIGA) at the first general meeting of GIGA council held here Tuesday.
"This election signifies trust in China's Internet, and how China governs its Internet," said Ma.
The meeting was set to discuss key issues related to international cooperation on Internet governance while highlighting China's role.
Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff had called for a just and equal global Internet environment and regarded China as the "key factor to the success of global Internet governance," said Fadi Chehade, president of the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN).
Rousseff had suggested he find Chinese partners for cooperation, Chehade said.
To establish a multiple-stakeholder platform, Chehade said that dialogues among different partners should be improved, the platform should be transparent and just, and all stakeholders should be able to equally participate in global Internet governance.
GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions.
--
*Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala T*
*P. O. Box 17862*
*Suva*
*Republic of Fiji*
*Cell: +679 7656770 <%2B679%207656770>; *
*Home: +679 3362003 <%2B679%203362003>* *Twitter: @SalanietaT*
*"You will never do anything in this world without courage. It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honour." Aristotle*
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
OK, I'm confused. We have the Netmundial Event, The Netmundul initiative (NMI) and now GIGA. The three movers of NMI are ICANN, the WEF and CGI.br. GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee
and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions.
As far as I understood, the "Brazilian Internet Steering Commitee" *is* CGI.br So what is the relationship between NMI and GIGA? Are they parallel orgs? Was there a rename that I missed? And Carlton said that the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led
to the Sao Paulo event
(In this context, NMI does *not* appear to refer to the calamotous "solution in search of a problem" NMI -- the one that ISOC and others have refused to join -- formed AFTER the Sao Paulo event and seeming to share few of its values. But rather, it seems to refer to the SP event's own outcomes. Or do I have that wrong?) On one hand, I read the news of Chinese participation -- its acknowledgement of the goals and values of Netmundial -- and share Carlton's optimism. On the other, I look around and see another new source of needless confusion and redundancies that make the whole situation even more impenetrable to non-insiders than before. On 2 July 2015 at 10:30, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> wrote:
I joined the event remotely and listened to Ja Ma's speech with keen interest. Quite frankly, I was pleasantly surprised how direct he was.
I cannot be pessimistic as my friend Parminder and would urge us not to make the perfect the enemy of the good. For those who went to Sao Paulo and followed the evolution of the NMI, the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event. The Council has committed to do practical things to advance the outcomes from Sao Paulo, including advancing the work and role of the IGF and furthering the objectives of WSIS.
Good enough.
Now, Jack Ma (CEO of Alibaba, usually referred in metropolitan publications as 'the Chinese e-commerce giant') could have opted to sign up for the World Economic Forum (WEF)-led thing, the one that even as it utilised Orwellian-derived language to announce itself, baldly refuted the multistakeholder, equality-in-access approach to Internet governance. Instead, he signed with the Brazilian-initiated initiative. As I listened to Jack Ma, I had a sense that he truly understands connecting each of us to all of us is in the collective best interest, Alibaba included. I think he gets it that for most of us, the Internet is about development. I think he gets it that exploiting the Internet for profit does not preclude other dire uses. And he definitely understands that intrusions of one or other kind could be inimical to all our interests.
So, what do you do? I will take the Council's word on its commitment. And since they have also embraced a model that allow us to talk to them and let them know if they go astray, we have a way to at least enjoin them to account.
It is as good as it gets.
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* =============================
On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 7:26 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear All,
Apologies for the crossposting but this I found interesting:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/01/c_134373596.htm
SAO PAULO, June 30 (Xinhua) -- Jack Ma, founder of China's ecommerce giant Alibaba, was elected co-chairman of the Global Internet Governance Alliance (GIGA) at the first general meeting of GIGA council held here Tuesday.
"This election signifies trust in China's Internet, and how China governs its Internet," said Ma.
The meeting was set to discuss key issues related to international cooperation on Internet governance while highlighting China's role.
Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff had called for a just and equal global Internet environment and regarded China as the "key factor to the success of global Internet governance," said Fadi Chehade, president of the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN).
Rousseff had suggested he find Chinese partners for cooperation, Chehade said.
To establish a multiple-stakeholder platform, Chehade said that dialogues among different partners should be improved, the platform should be transparent and just, and all stakeholders should be able to equally participate in global Internet governance.
GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions.
--
*Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala T*
*P. O. Box 17862*
*Suva*
*Republic of Fiji*
*Cell: +679 7656770 <%2B679%207656770>; *
*Home: +679 3362003 <%2B679%203362003>* *Twitter: @SalanietaT*
*"You will never do anything in this world without courage. It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honour." Aristotle*
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
-- Evan Leibovitch Geneva, CH Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56
Hello, having just come back from the NetMundial Initiative (NMI) Coordination Council (NMI/CC) meeting in Sao Paulo (29-30 June 2015), I'm glad to fill in some of the blanks that have appeared in this thread: - The 3 convening parties of the NMI are - ICANN, - WEF (World Economic Forum) http://www.weforum.org/ , and - CGI.br, which is the acronym in Portugese of the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee http://www.cgi.br/about/ . There is no other convening party or organization involved as such. - The Members of the NMI/CC come from the 3 convening parties and represent 4 broad sectors, https://www.netmundial.org/council , and 2 individuals in another capacity, Wolfgang Kleinwächter as "Special Ambassador of the NMI", and Janis Karklins (Chair, IGF/MAG) as an Observer. - In our meeting a couple of days ago, we finalized the Terms of Reference (ToR) which was prepared by a Working Group made up of Members or their representatives. - We also elected five Co-Chairs, - Virgílio Almeida, Secretary for Information Technology Policy of the Ministry of Science, Technology and Innovation of Brazil and chair of the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee; - Fadi Chehadé, President and CEO, Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers; - Eileen Donahoe, Director of Global Affairs - Human Rights Watch; - Jack Ma, Founder and Executive Chairman, Alibaba Group; - Marília Maciel, Center for Technology and Society - Rio de Janeiro Law School of the Getulio Vargas Foundation. - The communiqué issued at the end of our meeting gives an accurate account of our 2-day meeting, https://www.netmundial.org/blog/secretariat/s%C3%A3o-paulo-communiqu%C3%A9-i... . Best regards, Jean-Jacques. ----- Mail original ----- De: "Evan Leibovitch" <evan@telly.org> À: "Carlton Samuels" <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> Cc: "PacNOG" <pacnog@pacnog.org>, "igf-pacific" <igf-pacific@googlegroups.com>, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" <civic@dgroups.org>, "Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List" <picisoc@picisoc.org>, oceania-icann@icann.org, "Arab IGF mailing list" <list@igfarab.org>, "apralo" <apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, members2014@thespacs.org, "At-Large Worldwide" <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, "Cecily FAASAU" <cf@regulator.gov.ws> Envoyé: Jeudi 2 Juillet 2015 17:09:09 Objet: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA OK, I'm confused. We have the Netmundial Event, The Netmundul initiative (NMI) and now GIGA. The three movers of NMI are ICANN, the WEF and CGI.br. GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions. As far as I understood, the "Brazilian Internet Steering Commitee" *is* CGI.br So what is the relationship between NMI and GIGA? Are they parallel orgs? Was there a rename that I missed? And Carlton said that the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event (In this context, NMI does *not* appear to refer to the calamotous "solution in search of a problem" NMI -- the one that ISOC and others have refused to join -- formed AFTER the Sao Paulo event and seeming to share few of its values. But rather, it seems to refer to the SP event's own outcomes. Or do I have that wrong?) On one hand, I read the news of Chinese participation -- its acknowledgement of the goals and values of Netmundial -- and share Carlton's optimism. On the other, I look around and see another new source of needless confusion and redundancies that make the whole situation even more impenetrable to non-insiders than before. On 2 July 2015 at 10:30, Carlton Samuels < carlton.samuels@gmail.com > wrote: I joined the event remotely and listened to Ja Ma's speech with keen interest. Quite frankly, I was pleasantly surprised how direct he was. I cannot be pessimistic as my friend Parminder and would urge us not to make the perfect the enemy of the good. For those who went to Sao Paulo and followed the evolution of the NMI, the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event. The Council has committed to do practical things to advance the outcomes from Sao Paulo, including advancing the work and role of the IGF and furthering the objectives of WSIS. Good enough. Now, Jack Ma (CEO of Alibaba, usually referred in metropolitan publications as 'the Chinese e-commerce giant') could have opted to sign up for the World Economic Forum (WEF)-led thing, the one that even as it utilised Orwellian-derived language to announce itself, baldly refuted the multistakeholder, equality-in-access approach to Internet governance. Instead, he signed with the Brazilian-initiated initiative. As I listened to Jack Ma, I had a sense that he truly understands connecting each of us to all of us is in the collective best interest, Alibaba included. I think he gets it that for most of us, the Internet is about development. I think he gets it that exploiting the Internet for profit does not preclude other dire uses. And he definitely understands that intrusions of one or other kind could be inimical to all our interests. So, what do you do? I will take the Council's word on its commitment. And since they have also embraced a model that allow us to talk to them and let them know if they go astray, we have a way to at least enjoin them to account. It is as good as it gets. -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround ============================= On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 7:26 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com > wrote: Dear All, Apologies for the crossposting but this I found interesting: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/01/c_134373596.htm SAO PAULO, June 30 (Xinhua) -- Jack Ma, founder of China's ecommerce giant Alibaba, was elected co-chairman of the Global Internet Governance Alliance (GIGA) at the first general meeting of GIGA council held here Tuesday . "This election signifies trust in China's Internet, and how China governs its Internet," said Ma. The meeting was set to discuss key issues related to international cooperation on Internet governance while highlighting China's role. Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff had called for a just and equal global Internet environment and regarded China as the "key factor to the success of global Internet governance," said Fadi Chehade, president of the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN). Rousseff had suggested he find Chinese partners for cooperation, Chehade said. To establish a multiple-stakeholder platform, Chehade said that dialogues among different partners should be improved, the platform should be transparent and just, and all stakeholders should be able to equally participate in global Internet governance. GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions. -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala T P. O. Box 17862 Suva Republic of Fiji Cell: +679 7656770 ; Home: +679 3362003 Twitter: @SalanietaT "You will never do anything in this world without courage. It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honour." Aristotle _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org -- Evan Leibovitch Geneva, CH Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
Hi JJ, Thanks for the share, it then seem the election refereed to in the beginning of this thread is actually selecting the co-chairs for NMI and not GIGA. By the way 5 co-chairs for a 24 member panel seem like a record breaker to me. Do you mind clarifying what informed the need for that much? as I don't think it's on regional reasons neither does it seem to be on stakeholder categorisation. Regards sent from Google nexus 4 kindly excuse brevity and typos. On 2 Jul 2015 22:00, "Subrenat, Jean-Jacques" <jjs@dyalog.net> wrote:
Hello,
having just come back from the NetMundial Initiative (NMI) Coordination Council (NMI/CC) meeting in Sao Paulo (29-30 June 2015), I'm glad to fill in some of the blanks that have appeared in this thread:
- The 3 convening parties of the NMI are - ICANN, - WEF (World Economic Forum) http://www.weforum.org/ , and - CGI.br, which is the acronym in Portugese of the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee http://www.cgi.br/about/ . There is no other convening party or organization involved as such.
- The Members of the NMI/CC come from the 3 convening parties and represent 4 broad sectors, https://www.netmundial.org/council , and 2 individuals in another capacity, Wolfgang Kleinwächter as "Special Ambassador of the NMI", and Janis Karklins (Chair, IGF/MAG) as an Observer.
- In our meeting a couple of days ago, we finalized the Terms of Reference (ToR) which was prepared by a Working Group made up of Members or their representatives.
- We also elected five Co-Chairs, - Virgílio Almeida, Secretary for Information Technology Policy of the Ministry of Science, Technology and Innovation of Brazil and chair of the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee; - Fadi Chehadé, President and CEO, Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers; - Eileen Donahoe, Director of Global Affairs - Human Rights Watch; - Jack Ma, Founder and Executive Chairman, Alibaba Group; - Marília Maciel, Center for Technology and Society - Rio de Janeiro Law School of the Getulio Vargas Foundation.
- The communiqué issued at the end of our meeting gives an accurate account of our 2-day meeting, https://www.netmundial.org/blog/secretariat/s%C3%A3o-paulo-communiqu%C3%A9-i... .
Best regards, Jean-Jacques.
----- Mail original ----- De: "Evan Leibovitch" <evan@telly.org> À: "Carlton Samuels" <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> Cc: "PacNOG" <pacnog@pacnog.org>, "igf-pacific" < igf-pacific@googlegroups.com>, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" <civic@dgroups.org>, "Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List" <picisoc@picisoc.org>, oceania-icann@icann.org, "Arab IGF mailing list" <list@igfarab.org>, "apralo" <apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, members2014@thespacs.org, "At-Large Worldwide" <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, "Cecily FAASAU" < cf@regulator.gov.ws> Envoyé: Jeudi 2 Juillet 2015 17:09:09 Objet: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA
OK, I'm confused.
We have the Netmundial Event, The Netmundul initiative (NMI) and now GIGA.
The three movers of NMI are ICANN, the WEF and CGI.br.
GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions.
As far as I understood, the "Brazilian Internet Steering Commitee" *is* CGI.br
So what is the relationship between NMI and GIGA? Are they parallel orgs? Was there a rename that I missed?
And Carlton said that
the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event
(In this context, NMI does *not* appear to refer to the calamotous "solution in search of a problem" NMI -- the one that ISOC and others have refused to join -- formed AFTER the Sao Paulo event and seeming to share few of its values. But rather, it seems to refer to the SP event's own outcomes. Or do I have that wrong?)
On one hand, I read the news of Chinese participation -- its acknowledgement of the goals and values of Netmundial -- and share Carlton's optimism. On the other, I look around and see another new source of needless confusion and redundancies that make the whole situation even more impenetrable to non-insiders than before.
On 2 July 2015 at 10:30, Carlton Samuels < carlton.samuels@gmail.com > wrote:
I joined the event remotely and listened to Ja Ma's speech with keen interest. Quite frankly, I was pleasantly surprised how direct he was.
I cannot be pessimistic as my friend Parminder and would urge us not to make the perfect the enemy of the good. For those who went to Sao Paulo and followed the evolution of the NMI, the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event. The Council has committed to do practical things to advance the outcomes from Sao Paulo, including advancing the work and role of the IGF and furthering the objectives of WSIS.
Good enough.
Now, Jack Ma (CEO of Alibaba, usually referred in metropolitan publications as 'the Chinese e-commerce giant') could have opted to sign up for the World Economic Forum (WEF)-led thing, the one that even as it utilised Orwellian-derived language to announce itself, baldly refuted the multistakeholder, equality-in-access approach to Internet governance. Instead, he signed with the Brazilian-initiated initiative. As I listened to Jack Ma, I had a sense that he truly understands connecting each of us to all of us is in the collective best interest, Alibaba included. I think he gets it that for most of us, the Internet is about development. I think he gets it that exploiting the Internet for profit does not preclude other dire uses. And he definitely understands that intrusions of one or other kind could be inimical to all our interests.
So, what do you do? I will take the Council's word on its commitment. And since they have also embraced a model that allow us to talk to them and let them know if they go astray, we have a way to at least enjoin them to account.
It is as good as it gets.
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround =============================
On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 7:26 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com > wrote:
Dear All,
Apologies for the crossposting but this I found interesting:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/01/c_134373596.htm
SAO PAULO, June 30 (Xinhua) -- Jack Ma, founder of China's ecommerce giant Alibaba, was elected co-chairman of the Global Internet Governance Alliance (GIGA) at the first general meeting of GIGA council held here Tuesday .
"This election signifies trust in China's Internet, and how China governs its Internet," said Ma.
The meeting was set to discuss key issues related to international cooperation on Internet governance while highlighting China's role.
Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff had called for a just and equal global Internet environment and regarded China as the "key factor to the success of global Internet governance," said Fadi Chehade, president of the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN).
Rousseff had suggested he find Chinese partners for cooperation, Chehade said.
To establish a multiple-stakeholder platform, Chehade said that dialogues among different partners should be improved, the platform should be transparent and just, and all stakeholders should be able to equally participate in global Internet governance.
GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions.
--
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala T
P. O. Box 17862
Suva
Republic of Fiji
Cell: +679 7656770 ;
Home: +679 3362003
Twitter: @SalanietaT
"You will never do anything in this world without courage. It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honour."
Aristotle
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
--
Evan Leibovitch Geneva, CH
Em: evan at telly dot org
Sk: evanleibovitch
Tw: el56 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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Hello Seun, right from the first telephone conference of the NMI/CC, I advocated the need for a Chair structure of some sort, and for a proper voting process to that effect, but to no avail. At the Sao Paulo meeting, a variety of positions were expressed, from 2 "coordinators" to 3, 4 or 5 Co- or Vice-Chairs. Finally, each Council Member was asked to write on a paper the names of 3 colleagues she/he wished to nominate for Co-Chair. A tally was taken, and 3 members came out on top with the same number of votes, and the next 2 likewise. Those who followed the proceedings remotely saw how this evolved. The final result, though not strictly sector- or geography-based, was adopted because it provides diversity, including gender. Jean-Jacques. ----- Mail original ----- De: "Seun Ojedeji" <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com> À: "JEAN-JACQUES SUBRENAT" <jjs@dyalog.net> Cc: "apralo" <apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, "igf-pacific" <igf-pacific@googlegroups.com>, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" <civic@dgroups.org>, members2014@thespacs.org, "At-Large Worldwide" <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, "Arab IGF mailing list" <list@igfarab.org>, "PacNOG" <pacnog@pacnog.org>, oceania-icann@icann.org, "Evan Leibovitch" <evan@telly.org>, "Cecily FAASAU" <cf@regulator.gov.ws>, "Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List" <picisoc@picisoc.org> Envoyé: Vendredi 3 Juillet 2015 08:05:54 Objet: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA Hi JJ, Thanks for the share, it then seem the election refereed to in the beginning of this thread is actually selecting the co-chairs for NMI and not GIGA. By the way 5 co-chairs for a 24 member panel seem like a record breaker to me. Do you mind clarifying what informed the need for that much? as I don't think it's on regional reasons neither does it seem to be on stakeholder categorisation. Regards sent from Google nexus 4 kindly excuse brevity and typos. On 2 Jul 2015 22:00, "Subrenat, Jean-Jacques" < jjs@dyalog.net > wrote: Hello, having just come back from the NetMundial Initiative (NMI) Coordination Council (NMI/CC) meeting in Sao Paulo (29-30 June 2015), I'm glad to fill in some of the blanks that have appeared in this thread: - The 3 convening parties of the NMI are - ICANN, - WEF (World Economic Forum) http://www.weforum.org/ , and - CGI.br, which is the acronym in Portugese of the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee http://www.cgi.br/about/ . There is no other convening party or organization involved as such. - The Members of the NMI/CC come from the 3 convening parties and represent 4 broad sectors, https://www.netmundial.org/council , and 2 individuals in another capacity, Wolfgang Kleinwächter as "Special Ambassador of the NMI", and Janis Karklins (Chair, IGF/MAG) as an Observer. - In our meeting a couple of days ago, we finalized the Terms of Reference (ToR) which was prepared by a Working Group made up of Members or their representatives. - We also elected five Co-Chairs, - Virgílio Almeida, Secretary for Information Technology Policy of the Ministry of Science, Technology and Innovation of Brazil and chair of the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee; - Fadi Chehadé, President and CEO, Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers; - Eileen Donahoe, Director of Global Affairs - Human Rights Watch; - Jack Ma, Founder and Executive Chairman, Alibaba Group; - Marília Maciel, Center for Technology and Society - Rio de Janeiro Law School of the Getulio Vargas Foundation. - The communiqué issued at the end of our meeting gives an accurate account of our 2-day meeting, https://www.netmundial.org/blog/secretariat/s%C3%A3o-paulo-communiqu%C3%A9-i... . Best regards, Jean-Jacques. ----- Mail original ----- De: "Evan Leibovitch" < evan@telly.org > À: "Carlton Samuels" < carlton.samuels@gmail.com > Cc: "PacNOG" < pacnog@pacnog.org >, "igf-pacific" < igf-pacific@googlegroups.com >, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" < civic@dgroups.org >, "Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List" < picisoc@picisoc.org >, oceania-icann@icann.org , "Arab IGF mailing list" < list@igfarab.org >, "apralo" < apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org >, members2014@thespacs.org , "At-Large Worldwide" < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org >, "Cecily FAASAU" < cf@regulator.gov.ws > Envoyé: Jeudi 2 Juillet 2015 17:09:09 Objet: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA OK, I'm confused. We have the Netmundial Event, The Netmundul initiative (NMI) and now GIGA. The three movers of NMI are ICANN, the WEF and CGI.br. GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions. As far as I understood, the "Brazilian Internet Steering Commitee" *is* CGI.br So what is the relationship between NMI and GIGA? Are they parallel orgs? Was there a rename that I missed? And Carlton said that the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event (In this context, NMI does *not* appear to refer to the calamotous "solution in search of a problem" NMI -- the one that ISOC and others have refused to join -- formed AFTER the Sao Paulo event and seeming to share few of its values. But rather, it seems to refer to the SP event's own outcomes. Or do I have that wrong?) On one hand, I read the news of Chinese participation -- its acknowledgement of the goals and values of Netmundial -- and share Carlton's optimism.. On the other, I look around and see another new source of needless confusion and redundancies that make the whole situation even more impenetrable to non-insiders than before. On 2 July 2015 at 10:30, Carlton Samuels < carlton.samuels@gmail.com > wrote: I joined the event remotely and listened to Ja Ma's speech with keen interest. Quite frankly, I was pleasantly surprised how direct he was. I cannot be pessimistic as my friend Parminder and would urge us not to make the perfect the enemy of the good. For those who went to Sao Paulo and followed the evolution of the NMI, the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event. The Council has committed to do practical things to advance the outcomes from Sao Paulo, including advancing the work and role of the IGF and furthering the objectives of WSIS. Good enough. Now, Jack Ma (CEO of Alibaba, usually referred in metropolitan publications as 'the Chinese e-commerce giant') could have opted to sign up for the World Economic Forum (WEF)-led thing, the one that even as it utilised Orwellian-derived language to announce itself, baldly refuted the multistakeholder, equality-in-access approach to Internet governance. Instead, he signed with the Brazilian-initiated initiative. As I listened to Jack Ma, I had a sense that he truly understands connecting each of us to all of us is in the collective best interest, Alibaba included. I think he gets it that for most of us, the Internet is about development. I think he gets it that exploiting the Internet for profit does not preclude other dire uses. And he definitely understands that intrusions of one or other kind could be inimical to all our interests. So, what do you do? I will take the Council's word on its commitment. And since they have also embraced a model that allow us to talk to them and let them know if they go astray, we have a way to at least enjoin them to account. It is as good as it gets. -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround ============================= On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 7:26 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com > wrote: Dear All, Apologies for the crossposting but this I found interesting: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/01/c_134373596.htm SAO PAULO, June 30 (Xinhua) -- Jack Ma, founder of China's ecommerce giant Alibaba, was elected co-chairman of the Global Internet Governance Alliance (GIGA) at the first general meeting of GIGA council held here Tuesday .. "This election signifies trust in China's Internet, and how China governs its Internet," said Ma. The meeting was set to discuss key issues related to international cooperation on Internet governance while highlighting China's role. Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff had called for a just and equal global Internet environment and regarded China as the "key factor to the success of global Internet governance," said Fadi Chehade, president of the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN). Rousseff had suggested he find Chinese partners for cooperation, Chehade said. To establish a multiple-stakeholder platform, Chehade said that dialogues among different partners should be improved, the platform should be transparent and just, and all stakeholders should be able to equally participate in global Internet governance. GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions. -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala T P. O. Box 17862 Suva Republic of Fiji Cell: +679 7656770 ; Home: +679 3362003 Twitter: @SalanietaT "You will never do anything in this world without courage. It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honour." Aristotle _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org -- Evan Leibovitch Geneva, CH Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
Hello JJ, Thanks for this feedback, i think that approach of election is a record breaker ;-) I do hope the council will endeavour to have a formal election process going forward. I don't think the process used to selecting the current co-chairs should be institutionalised otherwise it means there could be varying number of co-chairs at any point in time. As to diversity, strange you said the diversity was evident and i am wondering "what is diversity when geo and sector is not evident" in this context. Nevertheless, its good that there is some level of progress and i hope the council would ensure to improve on its governance structure going forward. Congratulations on the progress made so far and by the way my +1 to gender ;-) Cheers! On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 7:40 AM, Subrenat, Jean-Jacques <jjs@dyalog.net> wrote:
Hello Seun,
right from the first telephone conference of the NMI/CC, I advocated the need for a Chair structure of some sort, and for a proper voting process to that effect, but to no avail.
At the Sao Paulo meeting, a variety of positions were expressed, from 2 "coordinators" to 3, 4 or 5 Co- or Vice-Chairs. Finally, each Council Member was asked to write on a paper the names of 3 colleagues she/he wished to nominate for Co-Chair. A tally was taken, and 3 members came out on top with the same number of votes, and the next 2 likewise. Those who followed the proceedings remotely saw how this evolved. The final result, though not strictly sector- or geography-based, was adopted because it provides diversity, including gender.
Jean-Jacques.
----- Mail original ----- De: "Seun Ojedeji" <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com> À: "JEAN-JACQUES SUBRENAT" <jjs@dyalog.net> Cc: "apralo" <apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, "igf-pacific" < igf-pacific@googlegroups.com>, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" <civic@dgroups.org>, members2014@thespacs.org, "At-Large Worldwide" <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, "Arab IGF mailing list" <list@igfarab.org>, "PacNOG" <pacnog@pacnog.org>, oceania-icann@icann.org, "Evan Leibovitch" <evan@telly.org>, "Cecily FAASAU" <cf@regulator.gov.ws>, "Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List" <picisoc@picisoc.org> Envoyé: Vendredi 3 Juillet 2015 08:05:54 Objet: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA
Hi JJ,
Thanks for the share, it then seem the election refereed to in the beginning of this thread is actually selecting the co-chairs for NMI and not GIGA.
By the way 5 co-chairs for a 24 member panel seem like a record breaker to me. Do you mind clarifying what informed the need for that much? as I don't think it's on regional reasons neither does it seem to be on stakeholder categorisation.
Regards
sent from Google nexus 4 kindly excuse brevity and typos. On 2 Jul 2015 22:00, "Subrenat, Jean-Jacques" < jjs@dyalog.net > wrote:
Hello,
having just come back from the NetMundial Initiative (NMI) Coordination Council (NMI/CC) meeting in Sao Paulo (29-30 June 2015), I'm glad to fill in some of the blanks that have appeared in this thread:
- The 3 convening parties of the NMI are - ICANN, - WEF (World Economic Forum) http://www.weforum.org/ , and - CGI.br, which is the acronym in Portugese of the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee http://www.cgi.br/about/ . There is no other convening party or organization involved as such.
- The Members of the NMI/CC come from the 3 convening parties and represent 4 broad sectors, https://www.netmundial.org/council , and 2 individuals in another capacity, Wolfgang Kleinwächter as "Special Ambassador of the NMI", and Janis Karklins (Chair, IGF/MAG) as an Observer.
- In our meeting a couple of days ago, we finalized the Terms of Reference (ToR) which was prepared by a Working Group made up of Members or their representatives.
- We also elected five Co-Chairs, - Virgílio Almeida, Secretary for Information Technology Policy of the Ministry of Science, Technology and Innovation of Brazil and chair of the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee; - Fadi Chehadé, President and CEO, Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers; - Eileen Donahoe, Director of Global Affairs - Human Rights Watch; - Jack Ma, Founder and Executive Chairman, Alibaba Group; - Marília Maciel, Center for Technology and Society - Rio de Janeiro Law School of the Getulio Vargas Foundation.
- The communiqué issued at the end of our meeting gives an accurate account of our 2-day meeting, https://www.netmundial.org/blog/secretariat/s%C3%A3o-paulo-communiqu%C3%A9-i... .
Best regards, Jean-Jacques.
----- Mail original ----- De: "Evan Leibovitch" < evan@telly.org > À: "Carlton Samuels" < carlton.samuels@gmail.com > Cc: "PacNOG" < pacnog@pacnog.org >, "igf-pacific" < igf-pacific@googlegroups.com >, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" < civic@dgroups.org >, "Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List" < picisoc@picisoc.org >, oceania-icann@icann.org , "Arab IGF mailing list" < list@igfarab.org >, "apralo" < apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org >, members2014@thespacs.org , "At-Large Worldwide" < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org >, "Cecily FAASAU" < cf@regulator.gov.ws
Envoyé: Jeudi 2 Juillet 2015 17:09:09 Objet: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA
OK, I'm confused.
We have the Netmundial Event, The Netmundul initiative (NMI) and now GIGA.
The three movers of NMI are ICANN, the WEF and CGI.br.
GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions.
As far as I understood, the "Brazilian Internet Steering Commitee" *is* CGI.br
So what is the relationship between NMI and GIGA? Are they parallel orgs? Was there a rename that I missed?
And Carlton said that
the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event
(In this context, NMI does *not* appear to refer to the calamotous "solution in search of a problem" NMI -- the one that ISOC and others have refused to join -- formed AFTER the Sao Paulo event and seeming to share few of its values. But rather, it seems to refer to the SP event's own outcomes. Or do I have that wrong?)
On one hand, I read the news of Chinese participation -- its acknowledgement of the goals and values of Netmundial -- and share Carlton's optimism.. On the other, I look around and see another new source of needless confusion and redundancies that make the whole situation even more impenetrable to non-insiders than before.
On 2 July 2015 at 10:30, Carlton Samuels < carlton.samuels@gmail.com > wrote:
I joined the event remotely and listened to Ja Ma's speech with keen interest. Quite frankly, I was pleasantly surprised how direct he was.
I cannot be pessimistic as my friend Parminder and would urge us not to make the perfect the enemy of the good. For those who went to Sao Paulo and followed the evolution of the NMI, the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event. The Council has committed to do practical things to advance the outcomes from Sao Paulo, including advancing the work and role of the IGF and furthering the objectives of WSIS.
Good enough.
Now, Jack Ma (CEO of Alibaba, usually referred in metropolitan publications as 'the Chinese e-commerce giant') could have opted to sign up for the World Economic Forum (WEF)-led thing, the one that even as it utilised Orwellian-derived language to announce itself, baldly refuted the multistakeholder, equality-in-access approach to Internet governance. Instead, he signed with the Brazilian-initiated initiative. As I listened to Jack Ma, I had a sense that he truly understands connecting each of us to all of us is in the collective best interest, Alibaba included. I think he gets it that for most of us, the Internet is about development. I think he gets it that exploiting the Internet for profit does not preclude other dire uses. And he definitely understands that intrusions of one or other kind could be inimical to all our interests.
So, what do you do? I will take the Council's word on its commitment. And since they have also embraced a model that allow us to talk to them and let them know if they go astray, we have a way to at least enjoin them to account.
It is as good as it gets.
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround =============================
On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 7:26 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com > wrote:
Dear All,
Apologies for the crossposting but this I found interesting:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/01/c_134373596.htm
SAO PAULO, June 30 (Xinhua) -- Jack Ma, founder of China's ecommerce giant Alibaba, was elected co-chairman of the Global Internet Governance Alliance (GIGA) at the first general meeting of GIGA council held here Tuesday ..
"This election signifies trust in China's Internet, and how China governs its Internet," said Ma.
The meeting was set to discuss key issues related to international cooperation on Internet governance while highlighting China's role.
Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff had called for a just and equal global Internet environment and regarded China as the "key factor to the success of global Internet governance," said Fadi Chehade, president of the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN).
Rousseff had suggested he find Chinese partners for cooperation, Chehade said.
To establish a multiple-stakeholder platform, Chehade said that dialogues among different partners should be improved, the platform should be transparent and just, and all stakeholders should be able to equally participate in global Internet governance.
GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions.
--
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala T
P. O. Box 17862
Suva
Republic of Fiji
Cell: +679 7656770 ;
Home: +679 3362003
Twitter: @SalanietaT
"You will never do anything in this world without courage. It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honour."
Aristotle
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--
Evan Leibovitch Geneva, CH
Em: evan at telly dot org
Sk: evanleibovitch
Tw: el56 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
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-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Seun Ojedeji,Federal University Oye-Ekitiweb: http://www.fuoye.edu.ng <http://www.fuoye.edu.ng> Mobile: +2348035233535**alt email: <http://goog_1872880453>seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng <seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng>* The key to understanding is humility - my view !
Hello Seun, - I did not say that "the diversity is evident", but that the final decision "was adopted because it provides diversity". - In the course of the discussion, some wanted 2 "coordinators" instead of any Chair, while others argued that it would not be possible to put together a team representing the 4 sectors and wide geographical diversity. - On this thread, my purpose is to provide information for the benefit of our communities, not to express my personal preferences. The outcome of the Council discussions is reflected in the Communiqué. Jean-Jacques. ----- Mail original ----- De: "Seun Ojedeji" <seun.ojedeji@gmail.com> À: "Jean-Jacques Subrenat" <jjs@dyalog.net> Cc: "apralo" <apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, "igf-pacific" <igf-pacific@googlegroups.com>, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" <civic@dgroups.org>, members2014@thespacs.org, "At-Large Worldwide" <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, "Arab IGF mailing list" <list@igfarab.org>, "PacNOG" <pacnog@pacnog.org>, oceania-icann@icann.org, "Evan Leibovitch" <evan@telly.org>, "Cecily FAASAU" <cf@regulator.gov.ws>, "Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List" <picisoc@picisoc.org> Envoyé: Vendredi 3 Juillet 2015 15:12:05 Objet: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA Hello JJ, Thanks for this feedback, i think that approach of election is a record breaker ;-) I do hope the council will endeavour to have a formal election process going forward. I don't think the process used to selecting the current co-chairs should be institutionalised otherwise it means there could be varying number of co-chairs at any point in time. As to diversity, strange you said the diversity was evident and i am wondering "what is diversity when geo and sector is not evident" in this context. Nevertheless, its good that there is some level of progress and i hope the council would ensure to improve on its governance structure going forward. Congratulations on the progress made so far and by the way my +1 to gender ;-) Cheers! On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 7:40 AM, Subrenat, Jean-Jacques < jjs@dyalog.net > wrote: Hello Seun, right from the first telephone conference of the NMI/CC, I advocated the need for a Chair structure of some sort, and for a proper voting process to that effect, but to no avail. At the Sao Paulo meeting, a variety of positions were expressed, from 2 "coordinators" to 3, 4 or 5 Co- or Vice-Chairs. Finally, each Council Member was asked to write on a paper the names of 3 colleagues she/he wished to nominate for Co-Chair. A tally was taken, and 3 members came out on top with the same number of votes, and the next 2 likewise. Those who followed the proceedings remotely saw how this evolved. The final result, though not strictly sector- or geography-based, was adopted because it provides diversity, including gender. Jean-Jacques. ----- Mail original ----- De: "Seun Ojedeji" < seun.ojedeji@gmail.com > À: "JEAN-JACQUES SUBRENAT" < jjs@dyalog.net > Cc: "apralo" < apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org >, "igf-pacific" < igf-pacific@googlegroups.com >, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" < civic@dgroups.org >, members2014@thespacs.org , "At-Large Worldwide" < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org >, "Arab IGF mailing list" < list@igfarab.org >, "PacNOG" < pacnog@pacnog.org >, oceania-icann@icann.org , "Evan Leibovitch" < evan@telly.org >, "Cecily FAASAU" < cf@regulator.gov.ws >, "Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List" < picisoc@picisoc.org > Envoyé: Vendredi 3 Juillet 2015 08:05:54 Objet: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA Hi JJ, Thanks for the share, it then seem the election refereed to in the beginning of this thread is actually selecting the co-chairs for NMI and not GIGA. By the way 5 co-chairs for a 24 member panel seem like a record breaker to me. Do you mind clarifying what informed the need for that much? as I don't think it's on regional reasons neither does it seem to be on stakeholder categorisation. Regards sent from Google nexus 4 kindly excuse brevity and typos. On 2 Jul 2015 22:00, "Subrenat, Jean-Jacques" < jjs@dyalog.net > wrote: Hello, having just come back from the NetMundial Initiative (NMI) Coordination Council (NMI/CC) meeting in Sao Paulo (29-30 June 2015), I'm glad to fill in some of the blanks that have appeared in this thread: - The 3 convening parties of the NMI are - ICANN, - WEF (World Economic Forum) http://www.weforum.org/ , and - CGI.br, which is the acronym in Portugese of the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee http://www.cgi.br/about/ . There is no other convening party or organization involved as such. - The Members of the NMI/CC come from the 3 convening parties and represent 4 broad sectors, https://www.netmundial.org/council , and 2 individuals in another capacity, Wolfgang Kleinwächter as "Special Ambassador of the NMI", and Janis Karklins (Chair, IGF/MAG) as an Observer. - In our meeting a couple of days ago, we finalized the Terms of Reference (ToR) which was prepared by a Working Group made up of Members or their representatives. - We also elected five Co-Chairs, - Virgílio Almeida, Secretary for Information Technology Policy of the Ministry of Science, Technology and Innovation of Brazil and chair of the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee; - Fadi Chehadé, President and CEO, Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers; - Eileen Donahoe, Director of Global Affairs - Human Rights Watch; - Jack Ma, Founder and Executive Chairman, Alibaba Group; - Marília Maciel, Center for Technology and Society - Rio de Janeiro Law School of the Getulio Vargas Foundation. - The communiqué issued at the end of our meeting gives an accurate account of our 2-day meeting, https://www.netmundial.org/blog/secretariat/s%C3%A3o-paulo-communiqu%C3%A9-i... . Best regards, Jean-Jacques. ----- Mail original ----- De: "Evan Leibovitch" < evan@telly.org > À: "Carlton Samuels" < carlton.samuels@gmail.com > Cc: "PacNOG" < pacnog@pacnog.org >, "igf-pacific" < igf-pacific@googlegroups.com >, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" < civic@dgroups.org >, "Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List" < picisoc@picisoc.org >, oceania-icann@icann.org , "Arab IGF mailing list" < list@igfarab.org >, "apralo" < apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org >, members2014@thespacs.org , "At-Large Worldwide" < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org >, "Cecily FAASAU" < cf@regulator.gov.ws > Envoyé: Jeudi 2 Juillet 2015 17:09:09 Objet: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA OK, I'm confused. We have the Netmundial Event, The Netmundul initiative (NMI) and now GIGA. The three movers of NMI are ICANN, the WEF and CGI.br. GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions. As far as I understood, the "Brazilian Internet Steering Commitee" *is* CGI.br So what is the relationship between NMI and GIGA? Are they parallel orgs? Was there a rename that I missed? And Carlton said that the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event (In this context, NMI does *not* appear to refer to the calamotous "solution in search of a problem" NMI -- the one that ISOC and others have refused to join -- formed AFTER the Sao Paulo event and seeming to share few of its values. But rather, it seems to refer to the SP event's own outcomes. Or do I have that wrong?) On one hand, I read the news of Chinese participation -- its acknowledgement of the goals and values of Netmundial -- and share Carlton's optimism.. On the other, I look around and see another new source of needless confusion and redundancies that make the whole situation even more impenetrable to non-insiders than before. On 2 July 2015 at 10:30, Carlton Samuels < carlton.samuels@gmail.com > wrote: I joined the event remotely and listened to Ja Ma's speech with keen interest. Quite frankly, I was pleasantly surprised how direct he was. I cannot be pessimistic as my friend Parminder and would urge us not to make the perfect the enemy of the good. For those who went to Sao Paulo and followed the evolution of the NMI, the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event. The Council has committed to do practical things to advance the outcomes from Sao Paulo, including advancing the work and role of the IGF and furthering the objectives of WSIS. Good enough. Now, Jack Ma (CEO of Alibaba, usually referred in metropolitan publications as 'the Chinese e-commerce giant') could have opted to sign up for the World Economic Forum (WEF)-led thing, the one that even as it utilised Orwellian-derived language to announce itself, baldly refuted the multistakeholder, equality-in-access approach to Internet governance. Instead, he signed with the Brazilian-initiated initiative. As I listened to Jack Ma, I had a sense that he truly understands connecting each of us to all of us is in the collective best interest, Alibaba included. I think he gets it that for most of us, the Internet is about development. I think he gets it that exploiting the Internet for profit does not preclude other dire uses. And he definitely understands that intrusions of one or other kind could be inimical to all our interests. So, what do you do? I will take the Council's word on its commitment. And since they have also embraced a model that allow us to talk to them and let them know if they go astray, we have a way to at least enjoin them to account. It is as good as it gets. -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround ============================= On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 7:26 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com > wrote: Dear All, Apologies for the crossposting but this I found interesting: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/01/c_134373596.htm SAO PAULO, June 30 (Xinhua) -- Jack Ma, founder of China's ecommerce giant Alibaba, was elected co-chairman of the Global Internet Governance Alliance (GIGA) at the first general meeting of GIGA council held here Tuesday .. "This election signifies trust in China's Internet, and how China governs its Internet," said Ma. The meeting was set to discuss key issues related to international cooperation on Internet governance while highlighting China's role. Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff had called for a just and equal global Internet environment and regarded China as the "key factor to the success of global Internet governance," said Fadi Chehade, president of the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN). Rousseff had suggested he find Chinese partners for cooperation, Chehade said. To establish a multiple-stakeholder platform, Chehade said that dialogues among different partners should be improved, the platform should be transparent and just, and all stakeholders should be able to equally participate in global Internet governance. GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions. -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala T P. O. Box 17862 Suva Republic of Fiji Cell: +679 7656770 ; Home: +679 3362003 Twitter: @SalanietaT "You will never do anything in this world without courage. It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honour." Aristotle _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org -- Evan Leibovitch Geneva, CH Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Seun Ojedeji, Federal University Oye-Ekiti web: http://www.fuoye.edu.ng Mobile: +2348035233535 alt email: seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng The key to understanding is humility - my view !
On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 11:09 AM, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> wrote:
So what is the relationship between NMI and GIGA? Are they parallel orgs? Was there a rename that I missed?
I too am waiting for a definitive answer for this one. I see even Milton asking elsewhere. No doubt this is the "seat at the table" that Fadi was talking about earlier in the year. j -- --------------------------------------------------------------- Joly MacFie 218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast WWWhatsup NYC - http://wwwhatsup.com http://pinstand.com - http://punkcast.com VP (Admin) - ISOC-NY - http://isoc-ny.org -------------------------------------------------------------- -
Hi Joly, On 3 July 2015 at 21:13, Joly MacFie <joly@punkcast.com> wrote:
I too am waiting for a definitive answer for this one. I see even Milton asking elsewhere.
+1 on this. Additionally, I am keen on understanding how the 5 co-chairs are supposed to work together. Normally co-chairs would be equally charged with leading the council....... I just don't know how practical it is for 5 co-chairs to work together and arrive at an acceptable, let alone unanimous decision on anything, especially given the 25-man council. Regards,
lot’s of names but I also am waiting fro something come out - I did not go to this event, but ICANN staff here went and so did Jean Jacques. Jean Jacques sent out a new report about the event. Guess worth to read it. World economic Forum + Alibaba from China + CGI.br + CEO of ICANN looks an interesting group to chair this. let’s read JJ and debate later. I had no opportunity to read it yet. Best regards, Vanda Scartezini Polo Consultores Associados Av. Paulista 1159, cj 1004 01311-200- Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Land Line: +55 11 3266.6253 Mobile: + 55 11 98181.1464 Sorry for any typos. From: <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> Date: Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 12:09 To: Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> Cc: PacNOG <pacnog@pacnog.org>, igf-pacific <igf-pacific@googlegroups.com>, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" <civic@dgroups.org>, Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List <picisoc@picisoc.org>, "oceania-icann@icann.org" <oceania-icann@icann.org>, Arab IGF mailing list <list@igfarab.org>, 'apralo' <apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, <members2014@thespacs.org>, 'At-Large Worldwide' <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, Cecily FAASAU <cf@regulator.gov.ws> Subject: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA OK, I'm confused. We have the Netmundial Event, The Netmundul initiative (NMI) and now GIGA. The three movers of NMI are ICANN, the WEF and CGI.br.
GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions.
As far as I understood, the "Brazilian Internet Steering Commitee" *is* CGI.br So what is the relationship between NMI and GIGA? Are they parallel orgs? Was there a rename that I missed? And Carlton said that
the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event
(In this context, NMI does *not* appear to refer to the calamotous "solution in search of a problem" NMI -- the one that ISOC and others have refused to join -- formed AFTER the Sao Paulo event and seeming to share few of its values. But rather, it seems to refer to the SP event's own outcomes. Or do I have that wrong?) On one hand, I read the news of Chinese participation -- its acknowledgement of the goals and values of Netmundial -- and share Carlton's optimism. On the other, I look around and see another new source of needless confusion and redundancies that make the whole situation even more impenetrable to non-insiders than before. On 2 July 2015 at 10:30, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> wrote:
I joined the event remotely and listened to Ja Ma's speech with keen interest. Quite frankly, I was pleasantly surprised how direct he was.
I cannot be pessimistic as my friend Parminder and would urge us not to make the perfect the enemy of the good. For those who went to Sao Paulo and followed the evolution of the NMI, the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event. The Council has committed to do practical things to advance the outcomes from Sao Paulo, including advancing the work and role of the IGF and furthering the objectives of WSIS.
Good enough.
Now, Jack Ma (CEO of Alibaba, usually referred in metropolitan publications as 'the Chinese e-commerce giant') could have opted to sign up for the World Economic Forum (WEF)-led thing, the one that even as it utilised Orwellian-derived language to announce itself, baldly refuted the multistakeholder, equality-in-access approach to Internet governance. Instead, he signed with the Brazilian-initiated initiative. As I listened to Jack Ma, I had a sense that he truly understands connecting each of us to all of us is in the collective best interest, Alibaba included. I think he gets it that for most of us, the Internet is about development. I think he gets it that exploiting the Internet for profit does not preclude other dire uses. And he definitely understands that intrusions of one or other kind could be inimical to all our interests.
So, what do you do? I will take the Council's word on its commitment. And since they have also embraced a model that allow us to talk to them and let them know if they go astray, we have a way to at least enjoin them to account.
It is as good as it gets.
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 <tel:876-818-1799> Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround =============================
On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 7:26 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear All,
Apologies for the crossposting but this I found interesting:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/01/c_134373596.htm
SAO PAULO, June 30 (Xinhua) -- Jack Ma, founder of China's ecommerce giant Alibaba, was elected co-chairman of the Global Internet Governance Alliance (GIGA) at the first general meeting of GIGA council held here Tuesday.
"This election signifies trust in China's Internet, and how China governs its Internet," said Ma.
The meeting was set to discuss key issues related to international cooperation on Internet governance while highlighting China's role.
Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff had called for a just and equal global Internet environment and regarded China as the "key factor to the success of global Internet governance," said Fadi Chehade, president of the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN).
Rousseff had suggested he find Chinese partners for cooperation, Chehade said.
To establish a multiple-stakeholder platform, Chehade said that dialogues among different partners should be improved, the platform should be transparent and just, and all stakeholders should be able to equally participate in global Internet governance.
GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions.
-- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala T P. O. Box 17862 Suva Republic of Fiji
Cell: +679 7656770 <tel:%2B679%207656770> ; Home: +679 3362003 <tel:%2B679%203362003> Twitter: @SalanietaT
"You will never do anything in this world without courage. It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honour."
Aristotle
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
-- Evan Leibovitch Geneva, CH
Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
Ad to this group of co-chairs FUndacao Getulio Vargas /CTI Brazil and HRW _ João Carlos Caribé (21) 9 8761 1967 Enviado via iPad
Em 05/07/2015, às 18:00, Vanda Scartezini <vanda@uol.com.br> escreveu:
lot’s of names but I also am waiting fro something come out - I did not go to this event, but ICANN staff here went and so did Jean Jacques. Jean Jacques sent out a new report about the event. Guess worth to read it. World economic Forum + Alibaba from China + CGI.br + CEO of ICANN looks an interesting group to chair this. let’s read JJ and debate later. I had no opportunity to read it yet. Best regards, Vanda Scartezini Polo Consultores Associados Av. Paulista 1159, cj 1004 01311-200- Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Land Line: +55 11 3266.6253 Mobile: + 55 11 98181.1464 Sorry for any typos.
From: <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> Date: Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 12:09 To: Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> Cc: PacNOG <pacnog@pacnog.org>, igf-pacific <igf-pacific@googlegroups.com>, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" <civic@dgroups.org>, Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List <picisoc@picisoc.org>, "oceania-icann@icann.org" <oceania-icann@icann.org>, Arab IGF mailing list <list@igfarab.org>, 'apralo' <apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, <members2014@thespacs.org>, 'At-Large Worldwide' <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, Cecily FAASAU <cf@regulator.gov.ws> Subject: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA
OK, I'm confused.
We have the Netmundial Event, The Netmundul initiative (NMI) and now GIGA.
The three movers of NMI are ICANN, the WEF and CGI.br.
GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions.
As far as I understood, the "Brazilian Internet Steering Commitee" *is* CGI.br
So what is the relationship between NMI and GIGA? Are they parallel orgs? Was there a rename that I missed?
And Carlton said that
the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event
(In this context, NMI does *not* appear to refer to the calamotous "solution in search of a problem" NMI -- the one that ISOC and others have refused to join -- formed AFTER the Sao Paulo event and seeming to share few of its values. But rather, it seems to refer to the SP event's own outcomes. Or do I have that wrong?)
On one hand, I read the news of Chinese participation -- its acknowledgement of the goals and values of Netmundial -- and share Carlton's optimism. On the other, I look around and see another new source of needless confusion and redundancies that make the whole situation even more impenetrable to non-insiders than before.
On 2 July 2015 at 10:30, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> wrote:
I joined the event remotely and listened to Ja Ma's speech with keen interest. Quite frankly, I was pleasantly surprised how direct he was.
I cannot be pessimistic as my friend Parminder and would urge us not to make the perfect the enemy of the good. For those who went to Sao Paulo and followed the evolution of the NMI, the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event. The Council has committed to do practical things to advance the outcomes from Sao Paulo, including advancing the work and role of the IGF and furthering the objectives of WSIS.
Good enough.
Now, Jack Ma (CEO of Alibaba, usually referred in metropolitan publications as 'the Chinese e-commerce giant') could have opted to sign up for the World Economic Forum (WEF)-led thing, the one that even as it utilised Orwellian-derived language to announce itself, baldly refuted the multistakeholder, equality-in-access approach to Internet governance. Instead, he signed with the Brazilian-initiated initiative. As I listened to Jack Ma, I had a sense that he truly understands connecting each of us to all of us is in the collective best interest, Alibaba included. I think he gets it that for most of us, the Internet is about development. I think he gets it that exploiting the Internet for profit does not preclude other dire uses. And he definitely understands that intrusions of one or other kind could be inimical to all our interests.
So, what do you do? I will take the Council's word on its commitment. And since they have also embraced a model that allow us to talk to them and let them know if they go astray, we have a way to at least enjoin them to account.
It is as good as it gets.
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround =============================
On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 7:26 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com> wrote: Dear All,
Apologies for the crossposting but this I found interesting:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/01/c_134373596.htm SAO PAULO, June 30 (Xinhua) -- Jack Ma, founder of China's ecommerce giant Alibaba, was elected co-chairman of the Global Internet Governance Alliance (GIGA) at the first general meeting of GIGA council held here Tuesday.
"This election signifies trust in China's Internet, and how China governs its Internet," said Ma.
The meeting was set to discuss key issues related to international cooperation on Internet governance while highlighting China's role.
Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff had called for a just and equal global Internet environment and regarded China as the "key factor to the success of global Internet governance," said Fadi Chehade, president of the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN).
Rousseff had suggested he find Chinese partners for cooperation, Chehade said.
To establish a multiple-stakeholder platform, Chehade said that dialogues among different partners should be improved, the platform should be transparent and just, and all stakeholders should be able to equally participate in global Internet governance.
GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions.
-- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala T P. O. Box 17862 Suva Republic of Fiji
Cell: +679 7656770; Home: +679 3362003 Twitter: @SalanietaT
"You will never do anything in this world without courage. It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honour."
Aristotle
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
-- Evan Leibovitch Geneva, CH Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
Enough of the cheerleading and lists of names, please. I am still waiting for a straight and honest answer from ANYONE: What is the relationship between this body and the Netmundial Initiative? On Jul 5, 2015 5:40 PM, "Joao Carlos Caribe" <caribe@entropia.blog.br> wrote:
Ad to this group of co-chairs FUndacao Getulio Vargas /CTI Brazil and HRW
_ João Carlos Caribé (21) 9 8761 1967 Enviado via iPad
Em 05/07/2015, às 18:00, Vanda Scartezini <vanda@uol.com.br> escreveu:
lot’s of names but I also am waiting fro something come out - I did not go to this event, but ICANN staff here went and so did Jean Jacques. Jean Jacques sent out a new report about the event. Guess worth to read it. World economic Forum + Alibaba from China + CGI.br + CEO of ICANN looks an *interesting* group to chair this. let’s read JJ and debate later. I had no opportunity to read it yet. Best regards, *Vanda Scartezini* *Polo Consultores Associados* *Av. Paulista 1159, cj 1004* *01311-200- Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil* *Land Line: +55 11 3266.6253 <%2B55%2011%203266.6253>* *Mobile: + 55 11 98181.1464 <%2B%2055%2011%2098181.1464> * *So**rry for any typos. *
From: <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> Date: Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 12:09 To: Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> Cc: PacNOG <pacnog@pacnog.org>, igf-pacific <igf-pacific@googlegroups.com>, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" <civic@dgroups.org>, Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List < picisoc@picisoc.org>, "oceania-icann@icann.org" <oceania-icann@icann.org>, Arab IGF mailing list <list@igfarab.org>, 'apralo' < apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, <members2014@thespacs.org>, 'At-Large Worldwide' <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, Cecily FAASAU < cf@regulator.gov.ws> Subject: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA
OK, I'm confused.
We have the Netmundial Event, The Netmundul initiative (NMI) and now GIGA.
The three movers of NMI are ICANN, the WEF and CGI.br.
GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee
and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions.
As far as I understood, the "Brazilian Internet Steering Commitee" *is* CGI.br
So what is the relationship between NMI and GIGA? Are they parallel orgs? Was there a rename that I missed?
And Carlton said that
the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that
led to the Sao Paulo event
(In this context, NMI does *not* appear to refer to the calamotous "solution in search of a problem" NMI -- the one that ISOC and others have refused to join -- formed AFTER the Sao Paulo event and seeming to share few of its values. But rather, it seems to refer to the SP event's own outcomes. Or do I have that wrong?)
On one hand, I read the news of Chinese participation -- its acknowledgement of the goals and values of Netmundial -- and share Carlton's optimism. On the other, I look around and see another new source of needless confusion and redundancies that make the whole situation even more impenetrable to non-insiders than before.
On 2 July 2015 at 10:30, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> wrote:
I joined the event remotely and listened to Ja Ma's speech with keen interest. Quite frankly, I was pleasantly surprised how direct he was.
I cannot be pessimistic as my friend Parminder and would urge us not to make the perfect the enemy of the good. For those who went to Sao Paulo and followed the evolution of the NMI, the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event. The Council has committed to do practical things to advance the outcomes from Sao Paulo, including advancing the work and role of the IGF and furthering the objectives of WSIS.
Good enough.
Now, Jack Ma (CEO of Alibaba, usually referred in metropolitan publications as 'the Chinese e-commerce giant') could have opted to sign up for the World Economic Forum (WEF)-led thing, the one that even as it utilised Orwellian-derived language to announce itself, baldly refuted the multistakeholder, equality-in-access approach to Internet governance. Instead, he signed with the Brazilian-initiated initiative. As I listened to Jack Ma, I had a sense that he truly understands connecting each of us to all of us is in the collective best interest, Alibaba included. I think he gets it that for most of us, the Internet is about development. I think he gets it that exploiting the Internet for profit does not preclude other dire uses. And he definitely understands that intrusions of one or other kind could be inimical to all our interests.
So, what do you do? I will take the Council's word on its commitment. And since they have also embraced a model that allow us to talk to them and let them know if they go astray, we have a way to at least enjoin them to account.
It is as good as it gets.
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* =============================
On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 7:26 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear All,
Apologies for the crossposting but this I found interesting:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/01/c_134373596.htm
SAO PAULO, June 30 (Xinhua) -- Jack Ma, founder of China's ecommerce giant Alibaba, was elected co-chairman of the Global Internet Governance Alliance (GIGA) at the first general meeting of GIGA council held here Tuesday.
"This election signifies trust in China's Internet, and how China governs its Internet," said Ma.
The meeting was set to discuss key issues related to international cooperation on Internet governance while highlighting China's role.
Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff had called for a just and equal global Internet environment and regarded China as the "key factor to the success of global Internet governance," said Fadi Chehade, president of the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN).
Rousseff had suggested he find Chinese partners for cooperation, Chehade said.
To establish a multiple-stakeholder platform, Chehade said that dialogues among different partners should be improved, the platform should be transparent and just, and all stakeholders should be able to equally participate in global Internet governance.
GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions.
--
*Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala T*
*P. O. Box 17862*
*Suva*
*Republic of Fiji*
*Cell: +679 7656770 <%2B679%207656770>; *
*Home: +679 3362003 <%2B679%203362003>* *Twitter: @SalanietaT*
*"You will never do anything in this world without courage. It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honour." Aristotle*
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Hello, having taken part in the face-to-face meeting of the NetMundial Initiative Coordination Council (NMI/CC, Sao Paulo 29-30 June 2015), but writing in a private capacity, I find it useful to clarify a few points : - As far as I'm aware, the term "Global Internet Governance Alliance (GIGA)" exists only in a piece written by "New China", based on a report filed from Sao Paulo by Xinhua, the official news agency of China (and, by the way, "New China" is the English translation of Xinhua 新华). The Xinhua report itself seems to be based on interviews conducted on-the-spot by its reporter(s). In this context, the term GIGA seems to be an amalgamation of various interviews. And as far as I can make out, the news agency correspondents in Sao Paulo were not necessarily experts in Internet matters, nor perhaps of English. The New China piece was brought to our attention on this thread by Salanieta: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/01/c_134373596.htm - Also, it would have been useful for those journalists reporting from Sao Paulo to check, and they would have discovered that the term GIGA is already in use in a different Internet context: the Institute of Global Internet Governance and Advocacy (GIGA) at Nalsar University in India has organized conferences on those themes, and I was invited as a speaker to the "GIGA-1 conference" (Hyderabad 2012), http://cis-india.org/news/giga-conference - During the 2-day meeting in Sao Paulo, and as far as I'm aware, there was no reference to a "GIGA", whether as a synonym of, or a replacement for NMI/CC. - As a member of the global Internet user community, and as a Member of the NMI Coordination Council writing in a private capacity, I consider that there are no grounds for suspecting any sort of maneuver aimed at transforming NMI/CC into, or it being taken over by, a so-called "GIGA". Jean-Jacques. ----- Mail original ----- De: "Evan Leibovitch" <evan@telly.org> À: "Joao Carlos Caribe" <caribe@entropia.blog.br> Cc: members2014@thespacs.org, "PacNOG" <pacnog@pacnog.org>, oceania-icann@icann.org, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" <civic@dgroups.org>, "Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List" <picisoc@picisoc.org>, "igf-pacific" <igf-pacific@googlegroups.com>, "Arab IGF mailing list" <list@igfarab.org>, "apralo" <apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, "At-Large Worldwide" <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, "Cecily FAASAU" <cf@regulator.gov.ws> Envoyé: Dimanche 5 Juillet 2015 23:52:37 Objet: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA Enough of the cheerleading and lists of names, please. I am still waiting for a straight and honest answer from ANYONE: What is the relationship between this body and the Netmundial Initiative? On Jul 5, 2015 5:40 PM, "Joao Carlos Caribe" < caribe@entropia.blog.br > wrote: Ad to this group of co-chairs FUndacao Getulio Vargas /CTI Brazil and HRW _ João Carlos Caribé (21) 9 8761 1967 Enviado via iPad Em 05/07/2015, às 18:00, Vanda Scartezini < vanda@uol.com.br > escreveu: lot’s of names but I also am waiting fro something come out - I did not go to this event, but ICANN staff here went and so did Jean Jacques. Jean Jacques sent out a new report about the event. Guess worth to read it. World economic Forum + Alibaba from China + CGI.br + CEO of ICANN looks an interesting group to chair this. let’s read JJ and debate later.. I had no opportunity to read it yet. Best regards, Vanda Scartezini Polo Consultores Associados Av. Paulista 1159, cj 1004 01311-200- Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Land Line: +55 11 3266.6253 Mobile: + 55 11 98181.1464 So rry for any typos. From: < at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org > on behalf of Evan Leibovitch < evan@telly.org > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 12:09 To: Carlton Samuels < carlton.samuels@gmail.com > Cc: PacNOG < pacnog@pacnog.org >, igf-pacific < igf-pacific@googlegroups.com >, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" < civic@dgroups.org >, Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List < picisoc@picisoc.org >, " oceania-icann@icann.org " < oceania-icann@icann.org >, Arab IGF mailing list < list@igfarab.org >, 'apralo' < apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org >, < members2014@thespacs.org >, 'At-Large Worldwide' < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org >, Cecily FAASAU < cf@regulator.gov.ws > Subject: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA OK, I'm confused. We have the Netmundial Event, The Netmundul initiative (NMI) and now GIGA. The three movers of NMI are ICANN, the WEF and CGI.br . GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions. As far as I understood, the "Brazilian Internet Steering Commitee" *is* CGI.br So what is the relationship between NMI and GIGA? Are they parallel orgs? Was there a rename that I missed? And Carlton said that the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event (In this context, NMI does *not* appear to refer to the calamotous "solution in search of a problem" NMI -- the one that ISOC and others have refused to join -- formed AFTER the Sao Paulo event and seeming to share few of its values. But rather, it seems to refer to the SP event's own outcomes. Or do I have that wrong?) On one hand, I read the news of Chinese participation -- its acknowledgement of the goals and values of Netmundial -- and share Carlton's optimism. On the other, I look around and see another new source of needless confusion and redundancies that make the whole situation even more impenetrable to non-insiders than before. On 2 July 2015 at 10:30, Carlton Samuels < carlton.samuels@gmail.com > wrote: I joined the event remotely and listened to Ja Ma's speech with keen interest. Quite frankly, I was pleasantly surprised how direct he was.. I cannot be pessimistic as my friend Parminder and would urge us not to make the perfect the enemy of the good. For those who went to Sao Paulo and followed the evolution of the NMI, the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event. The Council has committed to do practical things to advance the outcomes from Sao Paulo, including advancing the work and role of the IGF and furthering the objectives of WSIS. Good enough. Now, Jack Ma (CEO of Alibaba, usually referred in metropolitan publications as 'the Chinese e-commerce giant') could have opted to sign up for the World Economic Forum (WEF)-led thing, the one that even as it utilised Orwellian-derived language to announce itself, baldly refuted the multistakeholder, equality-in-access approach to Internet governance. Instead, he signed with the Brazilian-initiated initiative. As I listened to Jack Ma, I had a sense that he truly understands connecting each of us to all of us is in the collective best interest, Alibaba included. I think he gets it that for most of us, the Internet is about development. I think he gets it that exploiting the Internet for profit does not preclude other dire uses. And he definitely understands that intrusions of one or other kind could be inimical to all our interests. So, what do you do? I will take the Council's word on its commitment. And since they have also embraced a model that allow us to talk to them and let them know if they go astray, we have a way to at least enjoin them to account. It is as good as it gets. -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround ============================= On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 7:26 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com > wrote: Dear All, Apologies for the crossposting but this I found interesting: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/01/c_134373596.htm SAO PAULO, June 30 (Xinhua) -- Jack Ma, founder of China's ecommerce giant Alibaba, was elected co-chairman of the Global Internet Governance Alliance (GIGA) at the first general meeting of GIGA council held here Tuesday . "This election signifies trust in China's Internet, and how China governs its Internet," said Ma. The meeting was set to discuss key issues related to international cooperation on Internet governance while highlighting China's role. Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff had called for a just and equal global Internet environment and regarded China as the "key factor to the success of global Internet governance," said Fadi Chehade, president of the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN). Rousseff had suggested he find Chinese partners for cooperation, Chehade said. To establish a multiple-stakeholder platform, Chehade said that dialogues among different partners should be improved, the platform should be transparent and just, and all stakeholders should be able to equally participate in global Internet governance. GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions. -- Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala T P. O. Box 17862 Suva Republic of Fiji Cell: +679 7656770 ; Home: +679 3362003 Twitter: @SalanietaT "You will never do anything in this world without courage. It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honour." Aristotle _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org -- Evan Leibovitch Geneva, CH Em: evan at telly dot org Sk: evanleibovitch Tw: el56 _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
Thanks for the explanation. I think a lot of people will be pleased to learn that we don't have another entity cropping up in this space. Your response w.r.t to Chinese reporting also clarifies why Jack Ma's appointment seems to overshadow the rest of the co-chairs. I guess this frees us up to deliberate more on the arbitrary and unprecedented co-chair selection criteria. Regards, On 6 July 2015 at 11:30, Subrenat, Jean-Jacques <jjs@dyalog.net> wrote:
Hello,
having taken part in the face-to-face meeting of the NetMundial Initiative Coordination Council (NMI/CC, Sao Paulo 29-30 June 2015), but writing in a private capacity, I find it useful to clarify a few points :
- As far as I'm aware, the term "Global Internet Governance Alliance (GIGA)" exists only in a piece written by "New China", based on a report filed from Sao Paulo by Xinhua, the official news agency of China (and, by the way, "New China" is the English translation of Xinhua 新华). The Xinhua report itself seems to be based on interviews conducted on-the-spot by its reporter(s). In this context, the term GIGA seems to be an amalgamation of various interviews. And as far as I can make out, the news agency correspondents in Sao Paulo were not necessarily experts in Internet matters, nor perhaps of English. The New China piece was brought to our attention on this thread by Salanieta: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/01/c_134373596.htm
- Also, it would have been useful for those journalists reporting from Sao Paulo to check, and they would have discovered that the term GIGA is already in use in a different Internet context: the Institute of Global Internet Governance and Advocacy (GIGA) at Nalsar University in India has organized conferences on those themes, and I was invited as a speaker to the "GIGA-1 conference" (Hyderabad 2012), http://cis-india.org/news/giga-conference
- During the 2-day meeting in Sao Paulo, and as far as I'm aware, there was no reference to a "GIGA", whether as a synonym of, or a replacement for NMI/CC.
- As a member of the global Internet user community, and as a Member of the NMI Coordination Council writing in a private capacity, I consider that there are no grounds for suspecting any sort of maneuver aimed at transforming NMI/CC into, or it being taken over by, a so-called "GIGA".
Jean-Jacques.
----- Mail original ----- De: "Evan Leibovitch" <evan@telly.org> À: "Joao Carlos Caribe" <caribe@entropia.blog.br> Cc: members2014@thespacs.org, "PacNOG" <pacnog@pacnog.org>, oceania-icann@icann.org, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" <civic@dgroups.org>, "Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List" <picisoc@picisoc.org>, "igf-pacific" <igf-pacific@googlegroups.com>, "Arab IGF mailing list" <list@igfarab.org>, "apralo" <apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, "At-Large Worldwide" <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, "Cecily FAASAU" <cf@regulator.gov.ws> Envoyé: Dimanche 5 Juillet 2015 23:52:37 Objet: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA
Enough of the cheerleading and lists of names, please.
I am still waiting for a straight and honest answer from ANYONE: What is the relationship between this body and the Netmundial Initiative? On Jul 5, 2015 5:40 PM, "Joao Carlos Caribe" < caribe@entropia.blog.br > wrote:
Ad to this group of co-chairs FUndacao Getulio Vargas /CTI Brazil and HRW
_ João Carlos Caribé
(21) 9 8761 1967
Enviado via iPad
Em 05/07/2015, às 18:00, Vanda Scartezini < vanda@uol.com.br > escreveu:
lot’s of names but I also am waiting fro something come out - I did not go to this event, but ICANN staff here went and so did Jean Jacques. Jean Jacques sent out a new report about the event. Guess worth to read it. World economic Forum + Alibaba from China + CGI.br + CEO of ICANN looks an interesting group to chair this. let’s read JJ and debate later.. I had no opportunity to read it yet. Best regards,
Vanda Scartezini Polo Consultores Associados Av. Paulista 1159, cj 1004 01311-200- Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Land Line: +55 11 3266.6253 Mobile: + 55 11 98181.1464 So rry for any typos.
From: < at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org > on behalf of Evan Leibovitch < evan@telly.org > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 12:09 To: Carlton Samuels < carlton.samuels@gmail.com > Cc: PacNOG < pacnog@pacnog.org >, igf-pacific < igf-pacific@googlegroups.com >, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" < civic@dgroups.org >, Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List < picisoc@picisoc.org >, " oceania-icann@icann.org " < oceania-icann@icann.org >, Arab IGF mailing list < list@igfarab.org >, 'apralo' < apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org >, < members2014@thespacs.org >, 'At-Large Worldwide' < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org >, Cecily FAASAU < cf@regulator.gov.ws > Subject: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA
OK, I'm confused.
We have the Netmundial Event, The Netmundul initiative (NMI) and now GIGA.
The three movers of NMI are ICANN, the WEF and CGI.br .
GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions.
As far as I understood, the "Brazilian Internet Steering Commitee" *is* CGI.br
So what is the relationship between NMI and GIGA? Are they parallel orgs? Was there a rename that I missed?
And Carlton said that
the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event
(In this context, NMI does *not* appear to refer to the calamotous "solution in search of a problem" NMI -- the one that ISOC and others have refused to join -- formed AFTER the Sao Paulo event and seeming to share few of its values. But rather, it seems to refer to the SP event's own outcomes. Or do I have that wrong?)
On one hand, I read the news of Chinese participation -- its acknowledgement of the goals and values of Netmundial -- and share Carlton's optimism. On the other, I look around and see another new source of needless confusion and redundancies that make the whole situation even more impenetrable to non-insiders than before.
On 2 July 2015 at 10:30, Carlton Samuels < carlton.samuels@gmail.com > wrote:
I joined the event remotely and listened to Ja Ma's speech with keen interest. Quite frankly, I was pleasantly surprised how direct he was..
I cannot be pessimistic as my friend Parminder and would urge us not to make the perfect the enemy of the good. For those who went to Sao Paulo and followed the evolution of the NMI, the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event. The Council has committed to do practical things to advance the outcomes from Sao Paulo, including advancing the work and role of the IGF and furthering the objectives of WSIS.
Good enough.
Now, Jack Ma (CEO of Alibaba, usually referred in metropolitan publications as 'the Chinese e-commerce giant') could have opted to sign up for the World Economic Forum (WEF)-led thing, the one that even as it utilised Orwellian-derived language to announce itself, baldly refuted the multistakeholder, equality-in-access approach to Internet governance. Instead, he signed with the Brazilian-initiated initiative. As I listened to Jack Ma, I had a sense that he truly understands connecting each of us to all of us is in the collective best interest, Alibaba included. I think he gets it that for most of us, the Internet is about development. I think he gets it that exploiting the Internet for profit does not preclude other dire uses. And he definitely understands that intrusions of one or other kind could be inimical to all our interests.
So, what do you do? I will take the Council's word on its commitment. And since they have also embraced a model that allow us to talk to them and let them know if they go astray, we have a way to at least enjoin them to account.
It is as good as it gets.
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround =============================
On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 7:26 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com > wrote:
Dear All,
Apologies for the crossposting but this I found interesting:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/01/c_134373596.htm
SAO PAULO, June 30 (Xinhua) -- Jack Ma, founder of China's ecommerce giant Alibaba, was elected co-chairman of the Global Internet Governance Alliance (GIGA) at the first general meeting of GIGA council held here Tuesday .
"This election signifies trust in China's Internet, and how China governs its Internet," said Ma.
The meeting was set to discuss key issues related to international cooperation on Internet governance while highlighting China's role.
Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff had called for a just and equal global Internet environment and regarded China as the "key factor to the success of global Internet governance," said Fadi Chehade, president of the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN).
Rousseff had suggested he find Chinese partners for cooperation, Chehade said.
To establish a multiple-stakeholder platform, Chehade said that dialogues among different partners should be improved, the platform should be transparent and just, and all stakeholders should be able to equally participate in global Internet governance.
GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions.
--
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala T
P. O. Box 17862
Suva
Republic of Fiji
Cell: +679 7656770 ;
Home: +679 3362003
Twitter: @SalanietaT
"You will never do anything in this world without courage. It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honour."
Aristotle
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On 6 July 2015 at 16:41, Douglas Onyango <ondouglas@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for the explanation. I think a lot of people will be pleased to learn that we don't have another entity cropping up in this space.
Your response w.r.t to Chinese reporting also clarifies why Jack Ma's appointment seems to overshadow the rest of the co-chairs.
I guess this frees us up to deliberate more on the arbitrary and unprecedented co-chair selection criteria.
I suppose so, and I too appreciate the explanation ... though the episode, as described, indicates a remarkable lack of media relations competence. Such a major issues as "what is the group named", one would think, should not be the subject of such needless confusion. But now that THAT's out of the way .... we can get back to the original issue of trying to figure out exactly what problem this organization -- whatever it is called -- is supposed to non-redundantly solve. ;-) Adding Chinese representation to the mix doesn't magically provide an answer to that question. - Evan
Hi Evan, On 6 July 2015 at 17:51, Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> wrote:
though the episode,as described, indicates a remarkable lack of media relations competence. Such a major issues as "what is the group named", one would think, should not be the subject of such needless confusion.
I couldn't agree more. It is my sincere hope that the NMI will take this under advisement and attempt to coordinate the release of information from its proceedings in the future.
Adding Chinese representation to the mix doesn't magically provide an answer to that question.
In the Council's defense, the selection of Jack Ma was not a deliberate attempt at selecting a Chinese Co-Chair, but one that occurred naturally by some random selection. This brings me to the issues I have. The Co-Chair selection criteria leaves a lot to be desired. I sure hope there will be sanity in the future. I would hate to learn that at some arbitrary time, the Council convened and at that the said meeting, it chose 4 Co-Chairs instead......And this is very likely if no rules are adopted on such trivial matters as selection of a chair. Regards,
- Evan
-- Douglas Onyango, PRINCE 2, ITILv3 UG: +256 776 716 138
Evan, you should probably be more concerned by this, if you go after more substance and reasons to worry: 1. China's own "order based" Internet governance, which Minister Lu presented in the NetMundial meeting and Chinese agencies say was praised: http://en.people.cn/n/2015/0702/c98649-8914757.htmlhttp://en.people.cn/n/201... 2. The composition of the Council with two people not only from the same country but working for its government (one directly and one in an organization that provides consultancy and a career path for the government.) Maybe Jean-Jacques has some explanations here, as this happened in his presence. Alejandro Pisanty - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Facultad de Química UNAM Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________________________________ Desde: at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] en nombre de Evan Leibovitch [evan@telly.org] Enviado el: lunes, 06 de julio de 2015 09:51 Hasta: Douglas Onyango CC: PacNOG; igf-pacific; Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC); Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List; oceania-icann@icann.org; Arab IGF mailing list; apralo; members2014@thespacs.org; At-Large Worldwide; Cecily FAASAU Asunto: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA On 6 July 2015 at 16:41, Douglas Onyango <ondouglas@gmail.com<mailto:ondouglas@gmail.com>> wrote: Thanks for the explanation. I think a lot of people will be pleased to learn that we don't have another entity cropping up in this space. Your response w.r.t to Chinese reporting also clarifies why Jack Ma's appointment seems to overshadow the rest of the co-chairs. I guess this frees us up to deliberate more on the arbitrary and unprecedented co-chair selection criteria. I suppose so, and I too appreciate the explanation ... though the episode, as described, indicates a remarkable lack of media relations competence. Such a major issues as "what is the group named", one would think, should not be the subject of such needless confusion. But now that THAT's out of the way .... we can get back to the original issue of trying to figure out exactly what problem this organization -- whatever it is called -- is supposed to non-redundantly solve. ;-) Adding Chinese representation to the mix doesn't magically provide an answer to that question. - Evan
Alejandro, you are correct in your points. There are plenty of concerns to go around. The larger one, that is the source of the others IMO, remains that NMI remains a largely redundant solution in search of a problem to solve. This most recent action is simply the latest chapter in the story of NMI's ongoing and desperate search for credibility. This search may indeed address my first point above, if the Chinese involvement in NMI introduces new "problems" to solve... (that the rest of the community may see as not being problems at all...) On Jul 7, 2015 08:18, "Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch" <apisan@unam.mx> wrote:
Evan,
you should probably be more concerned by this, if you go after more substance and reasons to worry:
1. China's own "order based" Internet governance, which Minister Lu presented in the NetMundial meeting and Chinese agencies say was praised:
http://en.people.cn/n/2015/0702/c98649-8914757.html http://en.people.cn/n/2015/0702/c98649-8914757.html
2. The composition of the Council with two people not only from the same country but working for its government (one directly and one in an organization that provides consultancy and a career path for the government.)
Maybe Jean-Jacques has some explanations here, as this happened in his presence.
Alejandro Pisanty
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Facultad de Química UNAM Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ------------------------------ *Desde:* at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [ at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] en nombre de Evan Leibovitch [ evan@telly.org] *Enviado el:* lunes, 06 de julio de 2015 09:51 *Hasta:* Douglas Onyango *CC:* PacNOG; igf-pacific; Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC); Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List; oceania-icann@icann.org; Arab IGF mailing list; apralo; members2014@thespacs.org; At-Large Worldwide; Cecily FAASAU *Asunto:* Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA
On 6 July 2015 at 16:41, Douglas Onyango <ondouglas@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for the explanation. I think a lot of people will be pleased to learn that we don't have another entity cropping up in this space.
Your response w.r.t to Chinese reporting also clarifies why Jack Ma's appointment seems to overshadow the rest of the co-chairs.
I guess this frees us up to deliberate more on the arbitrary and unprecedented co-chair selection criteria.
I suppose so, and I too appreciate the explanation ... though the episode, as described, indicates a remarkable lack of media relations competence. Such a major issues as "what is the group named", one would think, should not be the subject of such needless confusion.
But now that THAT's out of the way .... we can get back to the original issue of trying to figure out exactly what problem this organization -- whatever it is called -- is supposed to non-redundantly solve. ;-) Adding Chinese representation to the mix doesn't magically provide an answer to that question.
- Evan
Hello Alejandro, thanks for providing the link to the article in English on the "People.cn" website, which is the online version of the "People's Daily", China's most official daily newspaper since 1949. Having attended the meeting in Sao Paulo, I can vouch for these facts: - after making his presentation, the Chinese Minister asked if there were any questions. As the recording will show, the comments or questions were mainly concentrated on two aspects: - Human Rights in the context of the Internet (3 members), - the wider geo-political context in which an observer can view the new interest of the Chinese authorities in global Internet governance matters, including NMI (1 member). I trust the European Commission will be keen to provide the exact quote of what its representative said in Sao Paulo. Jean-Jacques. ----- Mail original ----- De: "Evan Leibovitch" <evan@telly.org> À: "Alejandro Pisanty Baruch" <apisan@unam.mx> Cc: "PacNOG" <pacnog@pacnog.org>, oceania-icann@icann.org, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" <civic@dgroups.org>, "Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List" <picisoc@picisoc.org>, "igf-pacific" <igf-pacific@googlegroups.com>, "Arab IGF mailing list" <list@igfarab.org>, "apralo" <apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, members2014@thespacs.org, "At-Large Worldwide" <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, "Cecily FAASAU" <cf@regulator.gov.ws> Envoyé: Mardi 7 Juillet 2015 08:38:05 Objet: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA Alejandro, you are correct in your points. There are plenty of concerns to go around. The larger one, that is the source of the others IMO, remains that NMI remains a largely redundant solution in search of a problem to solve. This most recent action is simply the latest chapter in the story of NMI's ongoing and desperate search for credibility. This search may indeed address my first point above, if the Chinese involvement in NMI introduces new "problems" to solve... (that the rest of the community may see as not being problems at all...) On Jul 7, 2015 08:18, "Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch" < apisan@unam.mx > wrote: Evan, you should probably be more concerned by this, if you go after more substance and reasons to worry: 1. China's own "order based" Internet governance, which Minister Lu presented in the NetMundial meeting and Chinese agencies say was praised: http://en.people.cn/n/2015/0702/c98649-8914757.html http://en.people.cn/n/2015/0702/c98649-8914757.html 2. The composition of the Council with two people not only from the same country but working for its government (one directly and one in an organization that provides consultancy and a career path for the government.) Maybe Jean-Jacques has some explanations here, as this happened in his presence. Alejandro Pisanty - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Facultad de Química UNAM Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Desde: at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [ at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org ] en nombre de Evan Leibovitch [ evan@telly.org ] Enviado el: lunes, 06 de julio de 2015 09:51 Hasta: Douglas Onyango CC: PacNOG; igf-pacific; Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC); Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List; oceania-icann@icann.org ; Arab IGF mailing list; apralo; members2014@thespacs.org ; At-Large Worldwide; Cecily FAASAU Asunto: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA On 6 July 2015 at 16:41, Douglas Onyango < ondouglas@gmail.com > wrote: Thanks for the explanation. I think a lot of people will be pleased to learn that we don't have another entity cropping up in this space. Your response w.r.t to Chinese reporting also clarifies why Jack Ma's appointment seems to overshadow the rest of the co-chairs. I guess this frees us up to deliberate more on the arbitrary and unprecedented co-chair selection criteria. I suppose so, and I too appreciate the explanation ... though the episode, as described, indicates a remarkable lack of media relations competence. Such a major issues as "what is the group named", one would think, should not be the subject of such needless confusion. But now that THAT's out of the way .... we can get back to the original issue of trying to figure out exactly what problem this organization -- whatever it is called -- is supposed to non-redundantly solve. ;-) Adding Chinese representation to the mix doesn't magically provide an answer to that question. - Evan _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
China is certainly an interesting case. At the recent APrIGF event, a panel led by CNNIC, with the topic: Developing IG Principles with Geographic Diverse Perspective (http://apps.rigf.asia/submission/proposaldetail?id=31 | adobeconnect recording: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/p5mggn3qc75/?launcher=false&fcsContent=true&p...), the Chinese representative reiterated a number of times that it is difficult to translate "Multistakeholder" into Chinese and therefore the Chinese views that "Multi-Lateral" is a more appropriate term to use.
From what I understand, in Mainland China, "Multistakeholder" is now often translated into: 多利益相关方 Note that the first and the last character "多方" combines to form the usual translation for "Multi-Lateral", with "利益相关" meaning "interested" or "vested-interests"
In Hong Kong (and in earlier translations to Chinese in fact), we find no real problem translating "Multistakeholder" into Chinese: 多持分者 "多" being multi, "持分者" being "stakeholder", the Chinese term basically means "person with a part" so, like the English term, it avoids the economic/interest connotations. Nevertheless, that seems to be deprecate in China in favor of what really means "multi-lateral vested-interests" Often much is lost in translation... but I personally find it interesting to look into the differences in "interpretation" through translation of certain words. Especially key terms like these. Edmon
-----Original Message----- From: apac-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:apac-discuss- bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Subrenat, Jean-Jacques Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 4:12 PM To: Evan Leibovitch Cc: PacNOG; Cecily FAASAU; oceania-icann@icann.org; Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List; igf-pacific; At-Large Worldwide; Alejandro Pisanty Baruch; apralo; members2014@thespacs.org; Arab IGF mailing list; Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC) Subject: Re: [APAC-Discuss] [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA
Hello Alejandro,
thanks for providing the link to the article in English on the "People.cn" website, which is the online version of the "People's Daily", China's most official daily newspaper since 1949.
Having attended the meeting in Sao Paulo, I can vouch for these facts: - after making his presentation, the Chinese Minister asked if there were any questions. As the recording will show, the comments or questions were mainly concentrated on two aspects: - Human Rights in the context of the Internet (3 members), - the wider geo-political context in which an observer can view the new interest of the Chinese authorities in global Internet governance matters, including NMI (1 member).
I trust the European Commission will be keen to provide the exact quote of what its representative said in Sao Paulo.
Jean-Jacques.
----- Mail original ----- De: "Evan Leibovitch" <evan@telly.org> À: "Alejandro Pisanty Baruch" <apisan@unam.mx> Cc: "PacNOG" <pacnog@pacnog.org>, oceania-icann@icann.org, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" <civic@dgroups.org>, "Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List" <picisoc@picisoc.org>, "igf-pacific" <igf-pacific@googlegroups.com>, "Arab IGF mailing list" <list@igfarab.org>, "apralo" <apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, members2014@thespacs.org, "At-Large Worldwide" <at-large@atlarge- lists.icann.org>, "Cecily FAASAU" <cf@regulator.gov.ws> Envoyé: Mardi 7 Juillet 2015 08:38:05 Objet: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA
Alejandro, you are correct in your points. There are plenty of concerns to go around. The larger one, that is the source of the others IMO, remains that NMI remains a largely redundant solution in search of a problem to solve.
This most recent action is simply the latest chapter in the story of NMI's ongoing and desperate search for credibility. This search may indeed address my first point above, if the Chinese involvement in NMI introduces new "problems" to solve... (that the rest of the community may see as not being problems at all...)
On Jul 7, 2015 08:18, "Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch" < apisan@unam.mx > wrote:
Evan,
you should probably be more concerned by this, if you go after more substance and reasons to worry:
1. China's own "order based" Internet governance, which Minister Lu presented in the NetMundial meeting and Chinese agencies say was praised:
http://en.people.cn/n/2015/0702/c98649-8914757.html http://en.people.cn/n/2015/0702/c98649-8914757.html
2. The composition of the Council with two people not only from the same country but working for its government (one directly and one in an organization that provides consultancy and a career path for the government.)
Maybe Jean-Jacques has some explanations here, as this happened in his presence.
Alejandro Pisanty
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Facultad de Química UNAM Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Desde: at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [ at-large-bounces@atlarge- lists.icann.org ] en nombre de Evan Leibovitch [ evan@telly.org ] Enviado el: lunes, 06 de julio de 2015 09:51 Hasta: Douglas Onyango CC: PacNOG; igf-pacific; Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC); Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List; oceania- icann@icann.org ; Arab IGF mailing list; apralo; members2014@thespacs.org ; At-Large Worldwide; Cecily FAASAU Asunto: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA
On 6 July 2015 at 16:41, Douglas Onyango < ondouglas@gmail.com > wrote:
Thanks for the explanation. I think a lot of people will be pleased to learn that we don't have another entity cropping up in this space.
Your response w.r.t to Chinese reporting also clarifies why Jack Ma's appointment seems to overshadow the rest of the co-chairs.
I guess this frees us up to deliberate more on the arbitrary and unprecedented co-chair selection criteria.
I suppose so, and I too appreciate the explanation ... though the episode, as described, indicates a remarkable lack of media relations competence. Such a major issues as "what is the group named", one would think, should not be the subject of such needless confusion.
But now that THAT's out of the way .... we can get back to the original issue of trying to figure out exactly what problem this organization -- whatever it is called -- is supposed to non-redundantly solve. ;-) Adding Chinese representation to the mix doesn't magically provide an answer to that question.
- Evan
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ APAC-Discuss mailing list APAC-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/apac-discuss
Homepage for the region: http://www.apralo.org
In Portuguese we also do not have a word for that the alternative is “multiples interessados” meaning multi persons interested or "todas as partes interessadas” meaning all interested parts. However, multilateral exist, is the same word and the meaning is clear, since was shaped to have this meaning: "multi countries” all sides with the intention to state that each country has its side. Best to all Vanda Scartezini Polo Consultores Associados Av. Paulista 1159, cj 1004 01311-200- Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Land Line: +55 11 3266.6253 Mobile: + 55 11 98181.1464 Sorry for any typos. On 7/7/15, 6:46, "Edmon Chung" <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org on behalf of edmon@registry.asia> wrote:
China is certainly an interesting case.
At the recent APrIGF event, a panel led by CNNIC, with the topic: Developing IG Principles with Geographic Diverse Perspective (http://apps.rigf.asia/submission/proposaldetail?id=31 | adobeconnect recording: https://icann.adobeconnect.com/p5mggn3qc75/?launcher=false&fcsContent=true &pbMode=normal), the Chinese representative reiterated a number of times that it is difficult to translate "Multistakeholder" into Chinese and therefore the Chinese views that "Multi-Lateral" is a more appropriate term to use.
From what I understand, in Mainland China, "Multistakeholder" is now often translated into: 多利益相关方 Note that the first and the last character "多方" combines to form the usual translation for "Multi-Lateral", with "利益相关" meaning "interested" or "vested-interests"
In Hong Kong (and in earlier translations to Chinese in fact), we find no real problem translating "Multistakeholder" into Chinese: 多持分者 "多" being multi, "持分者" being "stakeholder", the Chinese term basically means "person with a part" so, like the English term, it avoids the economic/interest connotations.
Nevertheless, that seems to be deprecate in China in favor of what really means "multi-lateral vested-interests"
Often much is lost in translation... but I personally find it interesting to look into the differences in "interpretation" through translation of certain words. Especially key terms like these.
Edmon
-----Original Message----- From: apac-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:apac-discuss- bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Subrenat, Jean-Jacques Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2015 4:12 PM To: Evan Leibovitch Cc: PacNOG; Cecily FAASAU; oceania-icann@icann.org; Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List; igf-pacific; At-Large Worldwide; Alejandro Pisanty Baruch; apralo; members2014@thespacs.org; Arab IGF mailing list; Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC) Subject: Re: [APAC-Discuss] [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA
Hello Alejandro,
thanks for providing the link to the article in English on the "People.cn" website, which is the online version of the "People's Daily", China's most official daily newspaper since 1949.
Having attended the meeting in Sao Paulo, I can vouch for these facts: - after making his presentation, the Chinese Minister asked if there were any questions. As the recording will show, the comments or questions were mainly concentrated on two aspects: - Human Rights in the context of the Internet (3 members), - the wider geo-political context in which an observer can view the new interest of the Chinese authorities in global Internet governance matters, including NMI (1 member).
I trust the European Commission will be keen to provide the exact quote of what its representative said in Sao Paulo.
Jean-Jacques.
----- Mail original ----- De: "Evan Leibovitch" <evan@telly.org> À: "Alejandro Pisanty Baruch" <apisan@unam.mx> Cc: "PacNOG" <pacnog@pacnog.org>, oceania-icann@icann.org, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" <civic@dgroups.org>, "Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List" <picisoc@picisoc.org>, "igf-pacific" <igf-pacific@googlegroups.com>, "Arab IGF mailing list" <list@igfarab.org>, "apralo" <apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, members2014@thespacs.org, "At-Large Worldwide" <at-large@atlarge- lists.icann.org>, "Cecily FAASAU" <cf@regulator.gov.ws> Envoyé: Mardi 7 Juillet 2015 08:38:05 Objet: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA
Alejandro, you are correct in your points. There are plenty of concerns to go around. The larger one, that is the source of the others IMO, remains that NMI remains a largely redundant solution in search of a problem to solve.
This most recent action is simply the latest chapter in the story of NMI's ongoing and desperate search for credibility. This search may indeed address my first point above, if the Chinese involvement in NMI introduces new "problems" to solve... (that the rest of the community may see as not being problems at all...)
On Jul 7, 2015 08:18, "Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch" < apisan@unam.mx > wrote:
Evan,
you should probably be more concerned by this, if you go after more substance and reasons to worry:
1. China's own "order based" Internet governance, which Minister Lu presented in the NetMundial meeting and Chinese agencies say was praised:
http://en.people.cn/n/2015/0702/c98649-8914757.html http://en.people.cn/n/2015/0702/c98649-8914757.html
2. The composition of the Council with two people not only from the same country but working for its government (one directly and one in an organization that provides consultancy and a career path for the government.)
Maybe Jean-Jacques has some explanations here, as this happened in his presence.
Alejandro Pisanty
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Facultad de Química UNAM Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475 Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614 Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Desde: at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [ at-large-bounces@atlarge- lists.icann.org ] en nombre de Evan Leibovitch [ evan@telly.org ] Enviado el: lunes, 06 de julio de 2015 09:51 Hasta: Douglas Onyango CC: PacNOG; igf-pacific; Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC); Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List; oceania- icann@icann.org ; Arab IGF mailing list; apralo; members2014@thespacs.org ; At-Large Worldwide; Cecily FAASAU Asunto: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA
On 6 July 2015 at 16:41, Douglas Onyango < ondouglas@gmail.com > wrote:
Thanks for the explanation. I think a lot of people will be pleased to learn that we don't have another entity cropping up in this space.
Your response w.r.t to Chinese reporting also clarifies why Jack Ma's appointment seems to overshadow the rest of the co-chairs.
I guess this frees us up to deliberate more on the arbitrary and unprecedented co-chair selection criteria.
I suppose so, and I too appreciate the explanation ... though the episode, as described, indicates a remarkable lack of media relations competence. Such a major issues as "what is the group named", one would think, should not be the subject of such needless confusion.
But now that THAT's out of the way .... we can get back to the original issue of trying to figure out exactly what problem this organization -- whatever it is called -- is supposed to non-redundantly solve. ;-) Adding Chinese representation to the mix doesn't magically provide an answer to that question.
- Evan
_______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org _______________________________________________ APAC-Discuss mailing list APAC-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/apac-discuss
Homepage for the region: http://www.apralo.org
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On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 4:30 AM, Subrenat, Jean-Jacques <jjs@dyalog.net> wrote:
the term GIGA is already in use in a different Internet context: the Institute of Global Internet Governance and Advocacy (GIGA)
I suspect a sub-editor googled (or whatever they do in China) and this was the closest thing they found to what was reported so they went with it. Done similar myself before now! j -- --------------------------------------------------------------- Joly MacFie 218 565 9365 Skype:punkcast VP (Admin) - ISOC-NY - http://isoc-ny.org ---------------------------------------------------------------
The GIGA trademark is indeed owned by an Institute concerned with Global Internet Governance & Advocacy under the direction of our friend Dr. V.C. Vivekanandan at NALSAR, the University of Law in Hyderabad. Vivek served a term on the ALAC in about 2010. JJS, Hong Xue and I were honoured by GIGA's invitation to participate in their annual conference in 2012.....I think. -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* ============================= On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 7:30 AM, joly.nyc@gmail.com <joly.nyc@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 4:30 AM, Subrenat, Jean-Jacques <jjs@dyalog.net> wrote:
the term GIGA is already in use in a different Internet context: the Institute of Global Internet Governance and Advocacy (GIGA)
I suspect a sub-editor googled (or whatever they do in China) and this was the closest thing they found to what was reported so they went with it.
Done similar myself before now!
j
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Thanks, Carlton, good memory about GIGA. I've no idea how NMI was translated into GIGA, but it is very clear that no one ever in China uses "multilateral" to replace "multi-stakeholder" (so I definitely disagree with that Chinese presenter's observation at AP regional IGF). As Vanda said, multilateral is only used to refer to international relation or international law. I created a Chinese word for "pluri-lateral" though. Cheers Hong Professor Dr. Hong Xue Director of Beijing Normal University Institute for Internet Policy & Law (IIPL) Co-Director of UNCITRAL-BNU Joint Certificate Program on International E-Commerce Law http://www.iipl.org.cn/ 19 Xin Jie Kou Wai Street Beijing 100875 China On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 10:14 PM, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> wrote:
The GIGA trademark is indeed owned by an Institute concerned with Global Internet Governance & Advocacy under the direction of our friend Dr. V.C. Vivekanandan at NALSAR, the University of Law in Hyderabad.
Vivek served a term on the ALAC in about 2010.
JJS, Hong Xue and I were honoured by GIGA's invitation to participate in their annual conference in 2012.....I think.
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* =============================
On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 7:30 AM, joly.nyc@gmail.com <joly.nyc@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 4:30 AM, Subrenat, Jean-Jacques <jjs@dyalog.net> wrote:
the term GIGA is already in use in a different Internet context: the Institute of Global Internet Governance and Advocacy (GIGA)
I suspect a sub-editor googled (or whatever they do in China) and this was the closest thing they found to what was reported so they went with it.
Done similar myself before now!
j
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Please share the word with us and we can make it clear around the groups to facilitate understanding. Lots of kisses ( missing you Hong!!) Vanda Scartezini Polo Consultores Associados Av. Paulista 1159, cj 1004 01311-200- Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Land Line: +55 11 3266.6253 Mobile: + 55 11 98181.1464 Sorry for any typos. From: <at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Hong Xue <hongxueipr@gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2015 at 23:35 To: Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> Cc: PacNOG <pacnog@pacnog.org>, Cecily FAASAU <cf@regulator.gov.ws>, "oceania-icann@icann.org" <oceania-icann@icann.org>, Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List <picisoc@picisoc.org>, igf-pacific <igf-pacific@googlegroups.com>, 'At-Large Worldwide' <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, 'apralo' <apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, <members2014@thespacs.org>, Arab IGF mailing list <list@igfarab.org>, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" <civic@dgroups.org> Subject: Re: [At-Large] [civic] Re: Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA Thanks, Carlton, good memory about GIGA. I've no idea how NMI was translated into GIGA, but it is very clear that no one ever in China uses "multilateral" to replace "multi-stakeholder" (so I definitely disagree with that Chinese presenter's observation at AP regional IGF). As Vanda said, multilateral is only used to refer to international relation or international law. I created a Chinese word for "pluri-lateral" though. Cheers Hong Professor Dr. Hong Xue Director of Beijing Normal University Institute for Internet Policy & Law (IIPL) Co-Director of UNCITRAL-BNU Joint Certificate Program on International E-Commerce Law http://www.iipl.org.cn/ 19 Xin Jie Kou Wai Street Beijing 100875 China On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 10:14 PM, Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> wrote:
The GIGA trademark is indeed owned by an Institute concerned with Global Internet Governance & Advocacy under the direction of our friend Dr. V.C. Vivekanandan at NALSAR, the University of Law in Hyderabad.
Vivek served a term on the ALAC in about 2010.
JJS, Hong Xue and I were honoured by GIGA's invitation to participate in their annual conference in 2012.....I think.
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 <tel:876-818-1799> Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround =============================
On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 7:30 AM, joly.nyc@gmail.com <joly.nyc@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 4:30 AM, Subrenat, Jean-Jacques <jjs@dyalog.net> wrote:
the term GIGA is already in use in a different Internet context: the Institute of Global Internet Governance and Advocacy (GIGA)
I suspect a sub-editor googled (or whatever they do in China) and this was the closest thing they found to what was reported so they went with it.
Done similar myself before now!
j
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Hello All, (Pitch in my two cents as a Chinese) I did a bit research and found out that China's state media (including Xinhua, people.cn, CCTV) have been using the term Global Internet Governance Alliance (全球互联网治理联盟）to refer to NETmundial Initiative since January this year, if not earlier: - http://news.xinhuanet.com/politics/2015-01/22/c_1114096527.htm - http://world.people.com.cn/n/2015/0701/c1002-27239867.html - http://bit.ly/1S3c8bJ There is also a Baidu Baike page (China’s equivalent of wikipedia) about NMI (http://bit.ly/1Th0JYh), which is also referred to as Global Internet Governance Alliance (全球互联网治理联盟). This confusion is likely caused by translation. The term NETmundial seems to be translated into Chinese based on the meaning and the mission of the organization (NETmundial = Global Internet Governance = 全球互联网治理). When the Chinese reporter(s) wrote about NETmundial in English, I suspect that they referred to NMI’s Chinese translated term and translated it literally back into English, hence NETmundial Initiative has become Global Internet Governance Alliance. So the term was lost in translation (EN —> ZH —> EN). I will check with our colleagues in Beijing who may have connections to the reporter(s). They may help sort out this naming confusion. Thank you, Ariel -----Original Message----- From: <Subrenat>, Jean-Jacques <jjs@dyalog.net> Date: Monday, July 6, 2015 at 4:30 AM To: Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> Cc: PacNOG <pacnog@pacnog.org>, Cecily FAASAU <cf@regulator.gov.ws>, "oceania-icann@icann.org" <oceania-icann@icann.org>, Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List <picisoc@picisoc.org>, igf-pacific <igf-pacific@googlegroups.com>, At-Large Worldwide <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, Joao Carlos Caribe <caribe@entropia.blog.br>, apralo <apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, "members2014@thespacs.org" <members2014@thespacs.org>, Arab IGF mailing list <list@igfarab.org>, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" <civic@dgroups.org> Subject: Re: [APAC-Discuss] [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA
Hello,
having taken part in the face-to-face meeting of the NetMundial Initiative Coordination Council (NMI/CC, Sao Paulo 29-30 June 2015), but writing in a private capacity, I find it useful to clarify a few points :
- As far as I'm aware, the term "Global Internet Governance Alliance (GIGA)" exists only in a piece written by "New China", based on a report filed from Sao Paulo by Xinhua, the official news agency of China (and, by the way, "New China" is the English translation of Xinhua 新华). The Xinhua report itself seems to be based on interviews conducted on-the-spot by its reporter(s). In this context, the term GIGA seems to be an amalgamation of various interviews. And as far as I can make out, the news agency correspondents in Sao Paulo were not necessarily experts in Internet matters, nor perhaps of English. The New China piece was brought to our attention on this thread by Salanieta: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/01/c_134373596.htm
- Also, it would have been useful for those journalists reporting from Sao Paulo to check, and they would have discovered that the term GIGA is already in use in a different Internet context: the Institute of Global Internet Governance and Advocacy (GIGA) at Nalsar University in India has organized conferences on those themes, and I was invited as a speaker to the "GIGA-1 conference" (Hyderabad 2012), http://cis-india.org/news/giga-conference
- During the 2-day meeting in Sao Paulo, and as far as I'm aware, there was no reference to a "GIGA", whether as a synonym of, or a replacement for NMI/CC.
- As a member of the global Internet user community, and as a Member of the NMI Coordination Council writing in a private capacity, I consider that there are no grounds for suspecting any sort of maneuver aimed at transforming NMI/CC into, or it being taken over by, a so-called "GIGA".
Jean-Jacques.
----- Mail original ----- De: "Evan Leibovitch" <evan@telly.org> À: "Joao Carlos Caribe" <caribe@entropia.blog.br> Cc: members2014@thespacs.org, "PacNOG" <pacnog@pacnog.org>, oceania-icann@icann.org, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" <civic@dgroups.org>, "Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List" <picisoc@picisoc.org>, "igf-pacific" <igf-pacific@googlegroups.com>, "Arab IGF mailing list" <list@igfarab.org>, "apralo" <apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, "At-Large Worldwide" <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, "Cecily FAASAU" <cf@regulator.gov.ws> Envoyé: Dimanche 5 Juillet 2015 23:52:37 Objet: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA
Enough of the cheerleading and lists of names, please.
I am still waiting for a straight and honest answer from ANYONE: What is the relationship between this body and the Netmundial Initiative? On Jul 5, 2015 5:40 PM, "Joao Carlos Caribe" < caribe@entropia.blog.br > wrote:
Ad to this group of co-chairs FUndacao Getulio Vargas /CTI Brazil and HRW
_ João Carlos Caribé
(21) 9 8761 1967
Enviado via iPad
Em 05/07/2015, às 18:00, Vanda Scartezini < vanda@uol.com.br > escreveu:
lot’s of names but I also am waiting fro something come out - I did not go to this event, but ICANN staff here went and so did Jean Jacques. Jean Jacques sent out a new report about the event. Guess worth to read it. World economic Forum + Alibaba from China + CGI.br + CEO of ICANN looks an interesting group to chair this. let’s read JJ and debate later.. I had no opportunity to read it yet. Best regards,
Vanda Scartezini Polo Consultores Associados Av. Paulista 1159, cj 1004 01311-200- Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Land Line: +55 11 3266.6253 Mobile: + 55 11 98181.1464 So rry for any typos.
From: < at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org > on behalf of Evan Leibovitch < evan@telly.org > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 12:09 To: Carlton Samuels < carlton.samuels@gmail.com > Cc: PacNOG < pacnog@pacnog.org >, igf-pacific < igf-pacific@googlegroups.com >, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" < civic@dgroups.org >, Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List < picisoc@picisoc.org >, " oceania-icann@icann.org " < oceania-icann@icann.org >, Arab IGF mailing list < list@igfarab.org >, 'apralo' < apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org >, < members2014@thespacs.org >, 'At-Large Worldwide' < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org >, Cecily FAASAU < cf@regulator.gov.ws > Subject: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA
OK, I'm confused.
We have the Netmundial Event, The Netmundul initiative (NMI) and now GIGA.
The three movers of NMI are ICANN, the WEF and CGI.br .
GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions.
As far as I understood, the "Brazilian Internet Steering Commitee" *is* CGI.br
So what is the relationship between NMI and GIGA? Are they parallel orgs? Was there a rename that I missed?
And Carlton said that
the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event
(In this context, NMI does *not* appear to refer to the calamotous "solution in search of a problem" NMI -- the one that ISOC and others have refused to join -- formed AFTER the Sao Paulo event and seeming to share few of its values. But rather, it seems to refer to the SP event's own outcomes. Or do I have that wrong?)
On one hand, I read the news of Chinese participation -- its acknowledgement of the goals and values of Netmundial -- and share Carlton's optimism. On the other, I look around and see another new source of needless confusion and redundancies that make the whole situation even more impenetrable to non-insiders than before.
On 2 July 2015 at 10:30, Carlton Samuels < carlton.samuels@gmail.com > wrote:
I joined the event remotely and listened to Ja Ma's speech with keen interest. Quite frankly, I was pleasantly surprised how direct he was..
I cannot be pessimistic as my friend Parminder and would urge us not to make the perfect the enemy of the good. For those who went to Sao Paulo and followed the evolution of the NMI, the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event. The Council has committed to do practical things to advance the outcomes from Sao Paulo, including advancing the work and role of the IGF and furthering the objectives of WSIS.
Good enough.
Now, Jack Ma (CEO of Alibaba, usually referred in metropolitan publications as 'the Chinese e-commerce giant') could have opted to sign up for the World Economic Forum (WEF)-led thing, the one that even as it utilised Orwellian-derived language to announce itself, baldly refuted the multistakeholder, equality-in-access approach to Internet governance. Instead, he signed with the Brazilian-initiated initiative. As I listened to Jack Ma, I had a sense that he truly understands connecting each of us to all of us is in the collective best interest, Alibaba included. I think he gets it that for most of us, the Internet is about development. I think he gets it that exploiting the Internet for profit does not preclude other dire uses. And he definitely understands that intrusions of one or other kind could be inimical to all our interests.
So, what do you do? I will take the Council's word on its commitment. And since they have also embraced a model that allow us to talk to them and let them know if they go astray, we have a way to at least enjoin them to account.
It is as good as it gets.
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround =============================
On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 7:26 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com > wrote:
Dear All,
Apologies for the crossposting but this I found interesting:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/01/c_134373596.htm
SAO PAULO, June 30 (Xinhua) -- Jack Ma, founder of China's ecommerce giant Alibaba, was elected co-chairman of the Global Internet Governance Alliance (GIGA) at the first general meeting of GIGA council held here Tuesday .
"This election signifies trust in China's Internet, and how China governs its Internet," said Ma.
The meeting was set to discuss key issues related to international cooperation on Internet governance while highlighting China's role.
Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff had called for a just and equal global Internet environment and regarded China as the "key factor to the success of global Internet governance," said Fadi Chehade, president of the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN).
Rousseff had suggested he find Chinese partners for cooperation, Chehade said.
To establish a multiple-stakeholder platform, Chehade said that dialogues among different partners should be improved, the platform should be transparent and just, and all stakeholders should be able to equally participate in global Internet governance.
GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions.
--
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala T
P. O. Box 17862
Suva
Republic of Fiji
Cell: +679 7656770 ;
Home: +679 3362003
Twitter: @SalanietaT
"You will never do anything in this world without courage. It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honour."
Aristotle
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Thanks for this further information Ariel Cheers! On 6 Jul 2015 6:58 pm, "Ariel Liang" <ariel.liang@icann.org> wrote:
Hello All,
(Pitch in my two cents as a Chinese)
I did a bit research and found out that China's state media (including Xinhua, people.cn, CCTV) have been using the term Global Internet Governance Alliance (全球互联网治理联盟）to refer to NETmundial Initiative since January this year, if not earlier: - http://news.xinhuanet.com/politics/2015-01/22/c_1114096527.htm - http://world.people.com.cn/n/2015/0701/c1002-27239867.html - http://bit.ly/1S3c8bJ
There is also a Baidu Baike page (China’s equivalent of wikipedia) about NMI (http://bit.ly/1Th0JYh), which is also referred to as Global Internet Governance Alliance (全球互联网治理联盟).
This confusion is likely caused by translation. The term NETmundial seems to be translated into Chinese based on the meaning and the mission of the organization (NETmundial = Global Internet Governance = 全球互联网治理). When the Chinese reporter(s) wrote about NETmundial in English, I suspect that they referred to NMI’s Chinese translated term and translated it literally back into English, hence NETmundial Initiative has become Global Internet Governance Alliance. So the term was lost in translation (EN —> ZH —> EN).
I will check with our colleagues in Beijing who may have connections to the reporter(s). They may help sort out this naming confusion.
Thank you, Ariel
-----Original Message----- From: <Subrenat>, Jean-Jacques <jjs@dyalog.net> Date: Monday, July 6, 2015 at 4:30 AM To: Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> Cc: PacNOG <pacnog@pacnog.org>, Cecily FAASAU <cf@regulator.gov.ws>, "oceania-icann@icann.org" <oceania-icann@icann.org>, Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List <picisoc@picisoc.org>, igf-pacific <igf-pacific@googlegroups.com>, At-Large Worldwide <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, Joao Carlos Caribe <caribe@entropia.blog.br>, apralo <apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, "members2014@thespacs.org" <members2014@thespacs.org>, Arab IGF mailing list <list@igfarab.org>, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" <civic@dgroups.org> Subject: Re: [APAC-Discuss] [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA
Hello,
having taken part in the face-to-face meeting of the NetMundial Initiative Coordination Council (NMI/CC, Sao Paulo 29-30 June 2015), but writing in a private capacity, I find it useful to clarify a few points :
- As far as I'm aware, the term "Global Internet Governance Alliance (GIGA)" exists only in a piece written by "New China", based on a report filed from Sao Paulo by Xinhua, the official news agency of China (and, by the way, "New China" is the English translation of Xinhua 新华). The Xinhua report itself seems to be based on interviews conducted on-the-spot by its reporter(s). In this context, the term GIGA seems to be an amalgamation of various interviews. And as far as I can make out, the news agency correspondents in Sao Paulo were not necessarily experts in Internet matters, nor perhaps of English. The New China piece was brought to our attention on this thread by Salanieta: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/01/c_134373596.htm
- Also, it would have been useful for those journalists reporting from Sao Paulo to check, and they would have discovered that the term GIGA is already in use in a different Internet context: the Institute of Global Internet Governance and Advocacy (GIGA) at Nalsar University in India has organized conferences on those themes, and I was invited as a speaker to the "GIGA-1 conference" (Hyderabad 2012), http://cis-india.org/news/giga-conference
- During the 2-day meeting in Sao Paulo, and as far as I'm aware, there was no reference to a "GIGA", whether as a synonym of, or a replacement for NMI/CC.
- As a member of the global Internet user community, and as a Member of the NMI Coordination Council writing in a private capacity, I consider that there are no grounds for suspecting any sort of maneuver aimed at transforming NMI/CC into, or it being taken over by, a so-called "GIGA".
Jean-Jacques.
----- Mail original ----- De: "Evan Leibovitch" <evan@telly.org> À: "Joao Carlos Caribe" <caribe@entropia.blog.br> Cc: members2014@thespacs.org, "PacNOG" <pacnog@pacnog.org>, oceania-icann@icann.org, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" <civic@dgroups.org>, "Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List" <picisoc@picisoc.org>, "igf-pacific" <igf-pacific@googlegroups.com>, "Arab IGF mailing list" <list@igfarab.org>, "apralo" <apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, "At-Large Worldwide" <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, "Cecily FAASAU" <cf@regulator.gov.ws> Envoyé: Dimanche 5 Juillet 2015 23:52:37 Objet: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA
Enough of the cheerleading and lists of names, please.
I am still waiting for a straight and honest answer from ANYONE: What is the relationship between this body and the Netmundial Initiative? On Jul 5, 2015 5:40 PM, "Joao Carlos Caribe" < caribe@entropia.blog.br > wrote:
Ad to this group of co-chairs FUndacao Getulio Vargas /CTI Brazil and HRW
_ João Carlos Caribé
(21) 9 8761 1967
Enviado via iPad
Em 05/07/2015, às 18:00, Vanda Scartezini < vanda@uol.com.br > escreveu:
lot’s of names but I also am waiting fro something come out - I did not go to this event, but ICANN staff here went and so did Jean Jacques. Jean Jacques sent out a new report about the event. Guess worth to read it. World economic Forum + Alibaba from China + CGI.br + CEO of ICANN looks an interesting group to chair this. let’s read JJ and debate later.. I had no opportunity to read it yet. Best regards,
Vanda Scartezini Polo Consultores Associados Av. Paulista 1159, cj 1004 01311-200- Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Land Line: +55 11 3266.6253 Mobile: + 55 11 98181.1464 So rry for any typos.
From: < at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org > on behalf of Evan Leibovitch < evan@telly.org > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 12:09 To: Carlton Samuels < carlton.samuels@gmail.com > Cc: PacNOG < pacnog@pacnog.org >, igf-pacific < igf-pacific@googlegroups.com >, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" < civic@dgroups.org >, Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List < picisoc@picisoc.org >, " oceania-icann@icann.org " < oceania-icann@icann.org >, Arab IGF mailing list < list@igfarab.org >, 'apralo' < apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org >, < members2014@thespacs.org >, 'At-Large Worldwide' < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org >, Cecily FAASAU < cf@regulator.gov.ws > Subject: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA
OK, I'm confused.
We have the Netmundial Event, The Netmundul initiative (NMI) and now GIGA.
The three movers of NMI are ICANN, the WEF and CGI.br .
GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions.
As far as I understood, the "Brazilian Internet Steering Commitee" *is* CGI.br
So what is the relationship between NMI and GIGA? Are they parallel orgs? Was there a rename that I missed?
And Carlton said that
the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event
(In this context, NMI does *not* appear to refer to the calamotous "solution in search of a problem" NMI -- the one that ISOC and others have refused to join -- formed AFTER the Sao Paulo event and seeming to share few of its values. But rather, it seems to refer to the SP event's own outcomes. Or do I have that wrong?)
On one hand, I read the news of Chinese participation -- its acknowledgement of the goals and values of Netmundial -- and share Carlton's optimism. On the other, I look around and see another new source of needless confusion and redundancies that make the whole situation even more impenetrable to non-insiders than before.
On 2 July 2015 at 10:30, Carlton Samuels < carlton.samuels@gmail.com > wrote:
I joined the event remotely and listened to Ja Ma's speech with keen interest. Quite frankly, I was pleasantly surprised how direct he was..
I cannot be pessimistic as my friend Parminder and would urge us not to make the perfect the enemy of the good. For those who went to Sao Paulo and followed the evolution of the NMI, the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event. The Council has committed to do practical things to advance the outcomes from Sao Paulo, including advancing the work and role of the IGF and furthering the objectives of WSIS.
Good enough.
Now, Jack Ma (CEO of Alibaba, usually referred in metropolitan publications as 'the Chinese e-commerce giant') could have opted to sign up for the World Economic Forum (WEF)-led thing, the one that even as it utilised Orwellian-derived language to announce itself, baldly refuted the multistakeholder, equality-in-access approach to Internet governance. Instead, he signed with the Brazilian-initiated initiative. As I listened to Jack Ma, I had a sense that he truly understands connecting each of us to all of us is in the collective best interest, Alibaba included. I think he gets it that for most of us, the Internet is about development. I think he gets it that exploiting the Internet for profit does not preclude other dire uses. And he definitely understands that intrusions of one or other kind could be inimical to all our interests.
So, what do you do? I will take the Council's word on its commitment. And since they have also embraced a model that allow us to talk to them and let them know if they go astray, we have a way to at least enjoin them to account.
It is as good as it gets.
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround =============================
On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 7:26 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com > wrote:
Dear All,
Apologies for the crossposting but this I found interesting:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/01/c_134373596.htm
SAO PAULO, June 30 (Xinhua) -- Jack Ma, founder of China's ecommerce giant Alibaba, was elected co-chairman of the Global Internet Governance Alliance (GIGA) at the first general meeting of GIGA council held here Tuesday .
"This election signifies trust in China's Internet, and how China governs its Internet," said Ma.
The meeting was set to discuss key issues related to international cooperation on Internet governance while highlighting China's role.
Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff had called for a just and equal global Internet environment and regarded China as the "key factor to the success of global Internet governance," said Fadi Chehade, president of the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN).
Rousseff had suggested he find Chinese partners for cooperation, Chehade said.
To establish a multiple-stakeholder platform, Chehade said that dialogues among different partners should be improved, the platform should be transparent and just, and all stakeholders should be able to equally participate in global Internet governance.
GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions.
--
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala T
P. O. Box 17862
Suva
Republic of Fiji
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Home: +679 3362003
Twitter: @SalanietaT
"You will never do anything in this world without courage. It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honour."
Aristotle
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Thanks for this bit of research, Ariel...this is indeed a valuable input. satish On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 11:28 PM, Ariel Liang <ariel.liang@icann.org> wrote:
Hello All,
(Pitch in my two cents as a Chinese)
I did a bit research and found out that China's state media (including Xinhua, people.cn, CCTV) have been using the term Global Internet Governance Alliance (全球互联网治理联盟）to refer to NETmundial Initiative since January this year, if not earlier: - http://news.xinhuanet.com/politics/2015-01/22/c_1114096527.htm - http://world.people.com.cn/n/2015/0701/c1002-27239867.html - http://bit.ly/1S3c8bJ
There is also a Baidu Baike page (China’s equivalent of wikipedia) about NMI (http://bit.ly/1Th0JYh), which is also referred to as Global Internet Governance Alliance (全球互联网治理联盟).
This confusion is likely caused by translation. The term NETmundial seems to be translated into Chinese based on the meaning and the mission of the organization (NETmundial = Global Internet Governance = 全球互联网治理). When the Chinese reporter(s) wrote about NETmundial in English, I suspect that they referred to NMI’s Chinese translated term and translated it literally back into English, hence NETmundial Initiative has become Global Internet Governance Alliance. So the term was lost in translation (EN —> ZH —> EN).
I will check with our colleagues in Beijing who may have connections to the reporter(s). They may help sort out this naming confusion.
Thank you, Ariel
-----Original Message----- From: <Subrenat>, Jean-Jacques <jjs@dyalog.net> Date: Monday, July 6, 2015 at 4:30 AM To: Evan Leibovitch <evan@telly.org> Cc: PacNOG <pacnog@pacnog.org>, Cecily FAASAU <cf@regulator.gov.ws>, "oceania-icann@icann.org" <oceania-icann@icann.org>, Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List <picisoc@picisoc.org>, igf-pacific <igf-pacific@googlegroups.com>, At-Large Worldwide <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, Joao Carlos Caribe <caribe@entropia.blog.br>, apralo <apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, "members2014@thespacs.org" <members2014@thespacs.org>, Arab IGF mailing list <list@igfarab.org>, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" <civic@dgroups.org> Subject: Re: [APAC-Discuss] [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA
Hello,
having taken part in the face-to-face meeting of the NetMundial Initiative Coordination Council (NMI/CC, Sao Paulo 29-30 June 2015), but writing in a private capacity, I find it useful to clarify a few points :
- As far as I'm aware, the term "Global Internet Governance Alliance (GIGA)" exists only in a piece written by "New China", based on a report filed from Sao Paulo by Xinhua, the official news agency of China (and, by the way, "New China" is the English translation of Xinhua 新华). The Xinhua report itself seems to be based on interviews conducted on-the-spot by its reporter(s). In this context, the term GIGA seems to be an amalgamation of various interviews. And as far as I can make out, the news agency correspondents in Sao Paulo were not necessarily experts in Internet matters, nor perhaps of English. The New China piece was brought to our attention on this thread by Salanieta: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/01/c_134373596.htm
- Also, it would have been useful for those journalists reporting from Sao Paulo to check, and they would have discovered that the term GIGA is already in use in a different Internet context: the Institute of Global Internet Governance and Advocacy (GIGA) at Nalsar University in India has organized conferences on those themes, and I was invited as a speaker to the "GIGA-1 conference" (Hyderabad 2012), http://cis-india.org/news/giga-conference
- During the 2-day meeting in Sao Paulo, and as far as I'm aware, there was no reference to a "GIGA", whether as a synonym of, or a replacement for NMI/CC.
- As a member of the global Internet user community, and as a Member of the NMI Coordination Council writing in a private capacity, I consider that there are no grounds for suspecting any sort of maneuver aimed at transforming NMI/CC into, or it being taken over by, a so-called "GIGA".
Jean-Jacques.
----- Mail original ----- De: "Evan Leibovitch" <evan@telly.org> À: "Joao Carlos Caribe" <caribe@entropia.blog.br> Cc: members2014@thespacs.org, "PacNOG" <pacnog@pacnog.org>, oceania-icann@icann.org, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" <civic@dgroups.org>, "Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List" <picisoc@picisoc.org>, "igf-pacific" <igf-pacific@googlegroups.com>, "Arab IGF mailing list" <list@igfarab.org>, "apralo" <apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, "At-Large Worldwide" <at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org>, "Cecily FAASAU" <cf@regulator.gov.ws> Envoyé: Dimanche 5 Juillet 2015 23:52:37 Objet: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA
Enough of the cheerleading and lists of names, please.
I am still waiting for a straight and honest answer from ANYONE: What is the relationship between this body and the Netmundial Initiative? On Jul 5, 2015 5:40 PM, "Joao Carlos Caribe" < caribe@entropia.blog.br > wrote:
Ad to this group of co-chairs FUndacao Getulio Vargas /CTI Brazil and HRW
_ João Carlos Caribé
(21) 9 8761 1967
Enviado via iPad
Em 05/07/2015, às 18:00, Vanda Scartezini < vanda@uol.com.br > escreveu:
lot’s of names but I also am waiting fro something come out - I did not go to this event, but ICANN staff here went and so did Jean Jacques. Jean Jacques sent out a new report about the event. Guess worth to read it. World economic Forum + Alibaba from China + CGI.br + CEO of ICANN looks an interesting group to chair this. let’s read JJ and debate later.. I had no opportunity to read it yet. Best regards,
Vanda Scartezini Polo Consultores Associados Av. Paulista 1159, cj 1004 01311-200- Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Land Line: +55 11 3266.6253 Mobile: + 55 11 98181.1464 So rry for any typos.
From: < at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org > on behalf of Evan Leibovitch < evan@telly.org > Date: Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 12:09 To: Carlton Samuels < carlton.samuels@gmail.com > Cc: PacNOG < pacnog@pacnog.org >, igf-pacific < igf-pacific@googlegroups.com >, "Caribbean ICT stakeholders Virtual Community (CIVIC)" < civic@dgroups.org >, Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society Discussion List < picisoc@picisoc.org >, " oceania-icann@icann.org " < oceania-icann@icann.org >, Arab IGF mailing list < list@igfarab.org >, 'apralo' < apac-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org >, < members2014@thespacs.org >, 'At-Large Worldwide' < at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org >, Cecily FAASAU < cf@regulator.gov.ws > Subject: Re: [At-Large] Jack Ma New Co-Chair of Global Internet Governance Alliance #AliBaba #GIGA
OK, I'm confused.
We have the Netmundial Event, The Netmundul initiative (NMI) and now GIGA.
The three movers of NMI are ICANN, the WEF and CGI.br .
GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions.
As far as I understood, the "Brazilian Internet Steering Commitee" *is* CGI.br
So what is the relationship between NMI and GIGA? Are they parallel orgs? Was there a rename that I missed?
And Carlton said that
the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event
(In this context, NMI does *not* appear to refer to the calamotous "solution in search of a problem" NMI -- the one that ISOC and others have refused to join -- formed AFTER the Sao Paulo event and seeming to share few of its values. But rather, it seems to refer to the SP event's own outcomes. Or do I have that wrong?)
On one hand, I read the news of Chinese participation -- its acknowledgement of the goals and values of Netmundial -- and share Carlton's optimism. On the other, I look around and see another new source of needless confusion and redundancies that make the whole situation even more impenetrable to non-insiders than before.
On 2 July 2015 at 10:30, Carlton Samuels < carlton.samuels@gmail.com > wrote:
I joined the event remotely and listened to Ja Ma's speech with keen interest. Quite frankly, I was pleasantly surprised how direct he was..
I cannot be pessimistic as my friend Parminder and would urge us not to make the perfect the enemy of the good. For those who went to Sao Paulo and followed the evolution of the NMI, the Council has formally adopted the Terms of Reference of the NMI that led to the Sao Paulo event. The Council has committed to do practical things to advance the outcomes from Sao Paulo, including advancing the work and role of the IGF and furthering the objectives of WSIS.
Good enough.
Now, Jack Ma (CEO of Alibaba, usually referred in metropolitan publications as 'the Chinese e-commerce giant') could have opted to sign up for the World Economic Forum (WEF)-led thing, the one that even as it utilised Orwellian-derived language to announce itself, baldly refuted the multistakeholder, equality-in-access approach to Internet governance. Instead, he signed with the Brazilian-initiated initiative. As I listened to Jack Ma, I had a sense that he truly understands connecting each of us to all of us is in the collective best interest, Alibaba included. I think he gets it that for most of us, the Internet is about development. I think he gets it that exploiting the Internet for profit does not preclude other dire uses. And he definitely understands that intrusions of one or other kind could be inimical to all our interests.
So, what do you do? I will take the Council's word on its commitment. And since they have also embraced a model that allow us to talk to them and let them know if they go astray, we have a way to at least enjoin them to account.
It is as good as it gets.
-Carlton
============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround =============================
On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 7:26 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com > wrote:
Dear All,
Apologies for the crossposting but this I found interesting:
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/01/c_134373596.htm
SAO PAULO, June 30 (Xinhua) -- Jack Ma, founder of China's ecommerce giant Alibaba, was elected co-chairman of the Global Internet Governance Alliance (GIGA) at the first general meeting of GIGA council held here Tuesday .
"This election signifies trust in China's Internet, and how China governs its Internet," said Ma.
The meeting was set to discuss key issues related to international cooperation on Internet governance while highlighting China's role.
Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff had called for a just and equal global Internet environment and regarded China as the "key factor to the success of global Internet governance," said Fadi Chehade, president of the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN).
Rousseff had suggested he find Chinese partners for cooperation, Chehade said.
To establish a multiple-stakeholder platform, Chehade said that dialogues among different partners should be improved, the platform should be transparent and just, and all stakeholders should be able to equally participate in global Internet governance.
GIGA is co-sponsored by ICANN, the Brazilian Internet Steering Committee and the World Economic Forum to provide a platform for the discussion of Internet governance solutions.
--
Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala T
P. O. Box 17862
Suva
Republic of Fiji
Cell: +679 7656770 ;
Home: +679 3362003
Twitter: @SalanietaT
"You will never do anything in this world without courage. It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honour."
Aristotle
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participants (16)
-
Ariel Liang -
Carlton Samuels -
Douglas Onyango -
Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch -
Edmon Chung -
Evan Leibovitch -
Hong Xue -
Internet Society - NY Chapter -
Joao Carlos Caribe -
Joly MacFie -
parminder -
Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro -
Satish Babu -
Seun Ojedeji -
Subrenat, Jean-Jacques -
Vanda Scartezini