Dear all, Please find the attendance of the call attached to this email, and the AC Chat, MP3 and Adobe Connect recording below for the CCWG Auction Proceeds call held on Thursday, 5 October 2017 at 14:00 UTC. Mp3: https://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-new-gtld-auction-proceeds-05oct17-en.mp3 AC Recording: https://participate.icann.org/p1sii62w2hh/<https://participate.icann.org/p1sii62w2hh/?OWASP_CSRFTOKEN=ba32205baa7d5c6f9f2d022df27c77f6f8ad33f70eee561c5b2448cd9588aee0> The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_calendar-23nov&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=uidTA5V7RlRhqXBxGhLbVHOzk2lvDzLHK99nhjsKzW0&s=G7owpjQHHbzd9bFlrfdYX7Lik6lU9W8BeG1n7HUqLpI&e=> ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/ccwg-auctionproceeds/ Wiki agenda page: https://community.icann.org/x/bWzwAw Thank you. Kind regards, Julie --------------- Adobe Connect chat transcript for Thursday, 5 October 2017 Julie Bisland:Welcome to the CCWG New gTLD Auction Proceeds call on Thursday 05 October 2017 at 14:00 UTC. Julie Bisland:Agenda wiki page: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_b... Olga Cavalli:Hello all, good morning from Buenos Aires! Ching Chiao:Good morning Olga. Good to have you Julf Helsingius:Good <timeofday> Marc Gauw:Hello from stormy Amsterdam Manal Ismail:Hello everyone :) !! Ching Chiao:Hello Julf, Mac Alberto Soto:Hello everyone !! from Buenos Aires Joke Braeken:We will do so Ching Nadira AL-Araj:Happy day to all Sylvia Cadena:Hi everyone from Brisbane :) Vanda Scartezini:hi everyone - in a very noise environment ..sorry. will be mute enoss:[apologies for arriving late] Mary Uduma:Hi Everyone Wale Bakare:Hi all Sylvia Cadena:@Julie @Marika can you please organize to call Carolina Caeiro? She is trying to connect but she says Adobe doesn't let her in enoss:and hello from sunny toronto. beautiful fall day Marika Konings:@Sylvia - if you or she can provide us with her number we can dial out to her. Sylvia Cadena:Just send it to Julie Sylvia Cadena:Thanks Marika Marika Konings:Great, thanks Sylvia Wale Bakare:Please, can Staff send code for this call, for dial out participants Vanda Scartezini:Elliot - spring time here and as always sunny day Marika Konings:changing browsers may sometimes help with getting into Adobe. Marika Konings:@Wale - participant code is AUCTION jian Zhang:gt in Wale Bakare:Thanks, Marika jian Zhang:got in, but the voice is quite unstable Daniel Dardailler:sorry to be late, connection pbs on my side Marika Konings:as a reminder, call details as well as adobe connect room for every meeting are circulated prior to the meeting (plus several reminders) by the GNSO Secretariat (Julie Bisland, Terri Agnew or Nathalie Peregrine) to the ntfy-ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org<mailto:ntfy-ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org> mailing list. Marika Konings:also, the adobe connect room link is always the same, so you may also want to save it separately so you always have it handy at the start of a meeting :-) Stephanie Perrin:I apologize for being late. Carolina Caeiro:Hi all, I was able to connect via Adobe Connect so I hang up the phone. Many thanks for all the assistance Julie Bisland:you're welcome, Carolina! Manal Ismail:Many thanks for slide 5 .. extremely useful and informative .. enoss:as noted on email, I think a temperature of the room wrt who wants 1/2/3/4 would be useful. maybe others are not decided on that so it is better to do that after this presentation Ching Chiao:@enoss -- we will talk about that later , a 2nd survey on charter question 7 Marilyn Cade:Sam, while I appreciate the exploration of the fourth column, I do not support it. this avoids the accountabilty to ICANN which I think we all consider a baseline. Creating an independent Foundation, is this 3? A foundation that is independent, without ICANN doing much, only assessing affiliation with its mission? Vanda Scartezini:+ 1 Marilyn Sylvia Cadena:Agree with Marilyn. Better to focus on the first 3 columns. The 4th one is just not goig to work Marilyn Cade:Thanks Eliott, but I am not sure what you mean by "temperature of the room". We both know that many in a room might vote one way, and then, when informed, say: wait, didn't understand we were creating a legal liability for ICANN. so we want to not do that. Stephen Deerhake (.as):+1 Marilyn Alan Greenberg:My understanding was that Col 4 is there simply to make it clear that it is NOT an option (since no way to audit). Hadia Elminiawi:+ 1 Marilyn, though i prefer focusing on the first two Sylvia Cadena:@Sam when you say ICANN resources to support those 4 lines, you mean a portion of the auction proceeds, or do you mean that ICANN is committed to devote resources for those key elements? Vanda Scartezini:good question Sylvia Sylvia Cadena:Or do you mean a portion of the auction proceeds? Nadira AL-Araj:Notice the column 3. vs. column 4. which makes column 4 is not an option Alan Greenberg:I think we have already decided that all "costs" associated with funds will be born by the funds and not ICANN operational budgets. Marilyn Cade:I spend a lot of time exploring a foundation for single letters for com and .net. I really want us to explore an independent and accountable foundation. Sylvia Cadena:That was my understanding Alan, but I am not clear because Sam is saying ICANN (not the auction funds) Manal Ismail:I also believe that column 4 is not an option but understand that this is theoritically speaking .. i.e. just a listing of all possible (not necessarily practical) options .. Alan Greenberg:+1 Manal. Vanda Scartezini:yeah no reason to have column 4 Marc Gauw:Watch out: "Oversight" in option 2 or 3 should not mean '"Service Contract". That would bring many 501c-look-a-like (charity-)organisations in trouble and as such become disqualified to take a role in this process Wale Bakare:I would render sub-column, the External Resources of Col 1 non-existing Vanda Scartezini:thanks for raise this MArc Daniel Dardailler:I think there is a timing issue that needs to be considered in each valid scenarii (first 3). The "allowed" scope of funding being likely to evolve, having intermediaries will lead to delays in reacting to these changes and bring more fiduciary risks for ICANN enoss:@marilyn I was acknowledging in my comment that people may want to hear the presentation before having a view. I took your comment to simply reinforce that.. does that make sense? Daniel Dardailler:e.g. an fund recipient has signed a 3 year contract with the intermediary funding agency to work on some scope, and a year after, ICANN declare this scope is now out, but there is this contract going on.. Sylvia Cadena:Thanks Xavier, clear on the purpose of column 4 on the slide and also that when you say ICANN you actually mean the Auction Fund (to cover costs). Ching Chiao:+1 Sylvia Julie Bisland:Reminder: please mute your line if not speaking Hadia Elminiawi:yes Sylvia Alan Greenberg:So in the case where the auction funds are transfered to another body, either some would be retained by ICANN to cover costs, or a charge would be levied by ICANN to the body holding the funds. Daniel Dardailler:(I rejoined by phone, the voip was too bad) Jonathan Robinson:@Slyvia. Good point. Monitoring & Review. Kavouss Arasteh:I DISAGREE with the conduct of the meeting. I was the second on queue after Alan I Was pushed to fifth WHY? Jonathan Robinson:Ongoing monitoring & review of funded projects. Outcomes. Sylvia Cadena:Sorry Kavouss, I think your hand was dropped. My apologies. Sylvia Cadena:I was not paying attention to who was before. Marika Konings:@Kavouss - there is no ability for us to change the order of speakers. It is in the order in which hands are raised. Maybe your hand got inadvertently dropped and as a result you got added to the back of the queue? Mary Uduma:+1@Alan Kavouss Arasteh:Who manage the adobe? Kavouss Arasteh:Why a type of discrimiation was made pushing me out from the Queue and .... Marilyn Cade:I will have to drop off in 15 minutes to move to a different call. I saw Kavoss asking before I did. Marika, perhaps you might want to just check on who can stay around. I cannot due to another commitment, but if I cannot speak, I will post my comments. Marilyn Cade:Kavouss, my experience is taht the technology is not perfected. :-) Marika Konings:@Kavouss, as explained, there is no way for staff or anyone else to change the order of hands raised. Your hand may have dropped and as a result added inthe back of the queue. Marilyn Cade:Maye we can move youup in the discussion. Sylvia Cadena:Thanks Xavier. It is not clear on the slide. It will be good to clarify that so the table does not refer only to the disbursement processes. Marilyn Cade:After all, to ICANN, we do not yet have a governmetn speaker, and you migth be our first in this discussion. Mary Uduma:since ICANN had incurred some costs from the beginning of the Auction process, it goes without saying that some part of the proceed would be retained by ICANN to recover all costs. Stephanie Perrin:By all means, Kavouss can go ahead of me Stephen Deerhake (.as):Marilyn, I'm not ready to publically comment on this from a ccTLD perspective... Mary Uduma:Whichever options that would be adopted. This is in support of Alan's last post. Stephanie Perrin:absolutely Sylvia Cadena:Your hand was dropped off. Marilyn Cade:I think that perhaps my view that we should seriously examime a separate foundation with accountabilty to key criteria established that meets the requirements of ICANN... as we estblish it Daniel Dardailler:(has this situation ever occured ? if not, I'd just move on, rather than try to rationalize, it was a bug) Marilyn Cade:I stepped aside not to speak, to make sure that those not yet heard could speak, Kavouss, as I hoped to listen to you. I was not taking a slot, as I wanted to hear from any government or any ccTLD as these views have not been heard. Marika Konings:@Daniel - yes, it sometimes happens when a persons connectivity drops. Mary Uduma:Kavouss, kindly accept the apology and still take the Mary Uduma:floor Marilyn Cade:I hope to hear from al, and with apoligies, I will have to drop off in 7 mintues. I have posted my suggestion that I prefer an independent foundation, with requirements provided for adherance to the ICNN mission and core values. I will be advancing that in a discussion within the BC, to see if we are supporting any of the optoins. Wale Bakare:The problem is probably caused by Adobe Connect and perhaps connectivity Manal Ismail:+1 Stephanie on the difference between columns 2 & 3 .. Marc Gauw:Stephanie: please do not talk about 'agencies' or 'contracts'... this disquaifies the charity-organisations from joining this process Ching Chiao:+1 Stephanie Sylvia Cadena:+1 Stephanie Marilyn Cade:So many appreciations for the ICANN staff presentation and for the great work of this CCWG-Auctions Proceeds. Sylvia Cadena:It doesn't Marc. There might be intermediaries, there might be different types of mechanisms (contracts, grant agreements, MGCs, etc) Nadira AL-Araj:To my understanding column 2 will need a MOU to enable the Hybrid while column 3. it will need a full contract with ICANN Marc Gauw:@Sylvia: tax-exempted organisations have to be carefull with the wording ... Stephanie Perrin:Thanks so much Xavier, great explanation Samantha Eisner:@Nadira, there's really not enough information available at this time to identify what arrangements/agreements would have to be in place between ICANN and an external distributor of funds Hadia Elminiawi:Thanks Xavier - very clear Mary Uduma:From, .ngccTLD, we Hadia Elminiawi:kavouss i think there is a problem with your connection Marika Konings:It is likely linked to your connectivity. Daniel Dardailler:I'm raising my hand to check adobe and to ask a question ;) Mary Uduma:Chair, please allow Kavouss to speak, please. Stephanie Perrin:I have ver low bandwidth where I live, and it seems to be the nature o Adobe that when there is a microdrop (one that does not show up enough to show a lost connection flag) my hand will drop off. Nadira AL-Araj:@Samantha, agree but I was trying to add the agreement aspect. Ching Chiao:Yes, Kavouss is the next Sylvia Cadena:+1 Alan. Ching Chiao:I feel sorry too that Adobe seems to have issue like this Stephanie Perrin:So I sympathize with Kavouss, and suggest that he comment in the chat if possible (eg. I am after Alan) because there is no notice of the sudden disappearance Marilyn Cade:can we hear from Kovouss and others rfrom governnments? They have not yet been heard, and technolocy has defeated us. Ching, you can, as chair, move something up. Sylvia Cadena:Marilyn, he is next. Xavier is answering Alan. Wale Bakare:it is likely the Adobe Connect since one or two features not appearing for users Sylvia Cadena:Chig has already said Kavouss turn is after Alan. Ching Chiao:i m joggling adobe windows here so bare with me ... Ching Chiao:yes Kavouss is next Mary Uduma:Stephanie, please allow Kavouss to speak. His hand was one of the first I saw as soon as Xiaver finished his presentation. Sylvia Cadena:I think that is an old hand Stephanie, isn't it? Stephanie Perrin:That was an old hand Mary, sorry Daniel Dardailler:(let's use a local blockchain to solve the adobe queue bugs: "I agree that Kavouss why ahead of me") Alan Greenberg:Based on my experieince, if we do not allow and EXPECT some rate of failure and not meeting expectations, we will not be using funds well. To be effective overall, we MUST take chances. But that is not related to a project being approved out of scope. Sylvia Cadena:+1 Alan Sylvia Cadena:Can we please focus on the topics? Sylvia Cadena:I am sorry but it is 1:00 am for me here Sylvia Cadena:There are technical issues for everyone of us, and we all want to hear from you. Sylvia Cadena:Agree Kavouss. No double dipping we called in Australia. Wale Bakare:That's one of the expectations attributed to wireless service - reliability Marc Gauw:@Peter: +1 Kavouss Arasteh: Are we discussing which senario we opt? Julf Helsingius:volume is very low Stephanie Perrin:I certainly think that option 3 will inevitably be significantly more expensive than option 2, even with nothing going wrong. Hadia Elminiawi:+1 Peter knowing the costs associated is necessary Alan Greenberg:@Kavouss, some people are voicing opinions but we are not formally talking about the choice yet. Nadira AL-Araj:@Sylvia, regarding the double dipping, if ICANN employes someone to the purpose of this project, then that will eleminate the double dipping. Manal Ismail:Daniel's voice is very faint .. Kavouss Arasteh:If we discuss which option is to be opted I am in favour of senario 2 and I will explain later on why Sylvia Cadena:Sure @Nadira, but it needs to be clarified. There are universities -for example- that allow something called "salary topping" depending on the funding they raise for university research so they earn more if they have more projects Sylvia Cadena:So it is better to word it clearly Daniel Dardailler:Alan: not only we can find out of scope issue after the fact, but in some cases, we can't stop them Nadira AL-Araj:+1 Sylvia Kavouss Arasteh:Senario 4 to be excluded for a clear reason that outsourcing without oversighting is defficient Marc Gauw:So "Would outsourcing increase the risk of affecting ICANN's tax status if things go bad?" Not necesarily.. Sylvia Cadena:There is nothing that supports the idea that outsourcing will be more expensive. No evidence or quotes to have that for certain. Marc Gauw:+1 Kavouss Arasteh:Senario 1 is to reply to ICANN which is not prudent then I opt for hybrid or Seraio 2 enoss:I am hoping there is more discussion about these options as I am a strong proponent of 1 and, just given the nature of the information presented, that was not discussed here Daniel Dardailler:Sylvia, I can think of some costs (like training staff to be ICANN missionsavvy) that would be more effectively done within ICANN Sylvia Cadena:A lot of donors like WB, ADB, JICA and many Foundations outsource parts of their processes because it is cheaper for them rather than doing it directly Nadira AL-Araj:Outsourcing with an experienced organization usually less cost on the long run and even more transparent. Sylvia Cadena:+1 Nadira Marc Gauw:@Samantha: That is no problem ! That is covered in the grant agreements ! Sylvia Cadena:Sure @Daniel, but I dont think we can "decide" on a single type or mechanism/arrangement Sylvia Cadena:+1 Marc Marc Gauw:If the grant taking party spents the money out of scope, then they simply should be forced to wire the money back Wale Bakare:The option this group would prefer IMHO need to be properly discussed, for decision to be taken by this group. Sylvia Cadena:No grant agreements can be changed retroactively. Sylvia Cadena:That will be terrible bad practice enoss:we do not need to CHANGE mission, we just need to be "consistent" with mission enoss:those things are very different and we should not think of that as being too steep a hill Stephanie Perrin:To reiterate Elliot's point, the mere fact that the xs show up as no seems to indicate a lack of monitoring and oversight, which is not the case. We already have plenty of mechanisms in the MS model to achieve oversight. Wale Bakare:Let this sub-group have this page ( Resource Impact )posted on the mailing list for discussions/comments enoss:I must leave. thanks all Wale Bakare:then we can decide which options - 1, 2 or 3 Daniel Dardailler:I wasn't talking about a change in the ICANN mission but a change in the interpretation (by ICANN) of what is inline, or in service, or whatever, with the mission Daniel Dardailler:(what Xavier is explaining if business as usual for grants: using timesheet, analytical accounting, etc) Marilyn Cade:WITH APOLOGIES, I AM NOW RETURNED. Stephanie Perrin:great, just in time Marilyn! Daniel Dardailler:Are there other criteria to consider that are less quantifiable ? e.g. the willingness of the ICANN community at large to take over another "role"with more staff vs. keep ICANN as small as possible ? Sylvia Cadena:Yes @Daniel no need to over complicate things Daniel Dardailler:from the outset, the first choice seems like the one best positioned to control the fiduciary responsibility Marc Gauw:I can indicate with the current info Nadira AL-Araj:Yes, Marika, there could be the combination of the three options based on certain proposed budget Sylvia Cadena:Please, add your comments to the examples doc. It is quite useful exercise Wale Bakare:Would this scenario work - ICANN and the community ( of course, it is subject to individual's expertise as relate to project similar to the Auction Proceeds) work together? Xavier Calvez:To be clear, we also have not yet described any model. The scenarios we have described have only been created for the purpose of answering question #7, and a much more comprehensive description of each model to be able to elect a preference. Stephanie Perrin:We are unable to figure out the ball park for costs until we have a better idea of scope and size, in my view. Marc Gauw:@Kavouss: it is just a 'indication-check' Marika Konings:Note that development of models is part of the next phase of the CCWG's work. Sylvia Cadena:+1 Kavouss. Important to note that the outsourcing costs will be very different depending on the region, the tasks, language support, etc Daniel Dardailler 2:bye bye, I have to run Alan Greenberg:Have to go. Kavouss Arasteh:have to go Daniel Dardailler 2:(I'll stay on the phone til I start driving ;) Stephanie Perrin:We could ascertain rates of outsourced contracts for similar activities (eg same ample size of audit checks, same level of costs) Julie Bisland:Reminder: The next CCWG New gTLD Auction Proceeds call will be held on Thursday 19 October 2017 at 14:00 UTC Nadira AL-Araj:Thanks Ching Chiao and all Sylvia Cadena:I think the survey needs a bit of work to have questions that really shows opinions or preferences Kavouss Arasteh:ranking from accountability point of view only Kavouss Arasteh:Further discussion before a new survey Kavouss Arasteh:No survey at this point of time Manal Ismail:+1 Kavouss further discussion on the mailing list would be useful .. Carolina Caeiro:Thanks all Sylvia Cadena:Thanks Ching for chairing the meeting. Vanda Scartezini:agree with Sylvia . we can join some effort to formulate some points Carolina Caeiro:I have to jump off Sylvia Cadena:Appreciate your patience and kindness. And also the support from ICANN staff Hadia Elminiawi:Thank you all bye Julf Helsingius:Thanks everybody! Becky Burr:bye all Xavier Calvez:Thank you Marc Gauw:Bye bye Manal Ismail:Thanks Ching, Xavier, Sam, Marika and everyone .. Bye .. Sylvia Cadena:Bye everyone Ching Chiao:thank you Xavier and Sam Ching Chiao:thanks all Peter Vergote (ccNSO):Bye all Joke Braeken:thank you all. bye Mary Uduma:Bye All.