Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] New Deadline - 26 July 2019 - input on updated draft Final Report and outstanding questions
How autonomous an affiliate organization is (that is the correct term in lieu of "subsidiary") is wholly dependant on its Bylaws and Board composition. In the case of PTI/IANA, the Board has five member, three of who are appointed by ICANN. That gives ICANN full control unless a vote needs a supermajority (rare if ever). Alan At 25/07/2019 12:26 PM, Maureen Hilyard wrote:
John
The point is that ICANN can create a structure/department that can act autonomously
On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 5:58 AM John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
PTI's structure and functions have no
relationship to the ccwg's. I do not understand why people keep bringing it up.
PTI does administrative activities under
contract to icann and others. It does nothing even a little bit like giving out grants.
Autocorrectly, John
-------- Original message -------- From: Maureen Hilyard <maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> Date: 7/25/19 08:46 (GMT-08:00) To: marienoemie.marques@orange.com Cc: Alan Greenberg
<alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca>, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>, CCWG Auction Proceeds <ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org>
Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] New Deadline - 26 July 2019 - input on updated draft Final Report and outstanding questions
Thank you for reminding us of this connection which we raised as an option to consider very early in our discussions but was ignored.
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019, 5:40 AM , <marienoemie.marques@orange.com> wrote:
Would it be helpful, just for information, to note that : "Public Technical Identifiers (PTI) was
incorporated in August 2016 as an affiliate of ICANN, and, through contracts and subcontracts with ICANN, began performing the IANA functions on behalf of ICANN in October 2016."
-----Message d'origine----- De : Ccwg-auctionproceeds
[mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org] De la part de Alan Greenberg
Envoyé : jeudi 25 juillet 2019 17:36 À : John Levine Cc : CCWG Auction Proceeds Objet : Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] New Deadline - 26 July 2019 - input on updated draft Final Report and outstanding questions
B was not an ICANN Subsidiary but some other existing entity that we could team up with so that we did not have to re-invent services that we could outsource. That being said, I am happy to eliminate it! Mechanism A always has the option of outsourcing some of the functions.
BTW, under the California law that we operate under, a Public Interest Corp cannot have a "subsidiary", but that is just a nomenclature issue.
Alan
At 25/07/2019 01:35 AM, John Levine wrote:
Mechanism B: I presume the phrase "established at a public charity" should be "established as a public charity". I do not understand why the issue of tax benefits is being raised as in our case all of the money is coming form ICANN which does not pay any taxes. So it SOUNDS like a benefit but is in fact meaningless in our case. It should be made clear that at this point, it is not clear what parts would be outsourced and what will be kept within ICANN (except the application evaluation which must be outsourced).
I believe that this is supposed to say that ICANN establishes a captive foundation as a subsidiary.
Having done exactly that at ISOC, I can say that for the CCWG's purposes, giving away a one-time pile of money, this mechanism is inferior in every way to mechanism A. It costs more, takes longer, has a lot more bureaucratic overhead, and can do no more or no less than mechanism A. As Alan notes, it has no tax benefits. It is a waste of everyone's time to pursue it further.
If anyone has a concrete reason why they believe this would be a good idea, and is reasonably familiar with US non-profit tax law so they understand what's involved, I would like to hear about it.
R's, John
PS: ISOC's situation is quite different and it makes sense for us. If anyone wants details write me privately.
_______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
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Dear all, Please find my comments to the report attached. On the more substantive matters: 1. My preference would be that the CCWG recommend one single mechanism, so that work can start as soon as possible. I would be Ok with recommending two if we continue to be unable to arrive to an agreement. 2. As stated by Eliot and Sylvia, we should ensure we bring community input into the process. This in my view would enrich any mechanism, A, B or C. I support Sylvia's proposal that we outline what that community engagement would look like to best inform the work of the implementing team (just to be clear, I am talking about the community advisory board and an independent evaluation panel). I won't have the chance to review the text circulated by Emily today, but will try to do so prior to the next meeting on Wednesday. 4. In terms of preferred mechanisms, I incline for Mechanism A. I think there is more agreement than we think on the safeguards that we want to provide among both supporters of mechanisms A and C: independence, cost-efficiency of the mechanism, community engagement. My sense is that we should prioritize what allows us to more swiftly get to work, and that for whichever mechanism we pick, we ensure those safeguards are in place. Lastly, Emily, the report references the CCWG Agreements by number. Could you please circulate the document where all those agreements are compiled? Happy weekend to you all, Carolina El 25/7/19 a las 15:03, Alan Greenberg escribió:
How autonomous an affiliate organization is (that is the correct term in lieu of "subsidiary") is wholly dependant on its Bylaws and Board composition.
In the case of PTI/IANA, the Board has five member, three of who are appointed by ICANN. That gives ICANN full control unless a vote needs a supermajority (rare if ever).
Alan
At 25/07/2019 12:26 PM, Maureen Hilyard wrote:
John
The point is that ICANN can create a structure/department that can act autonomously
On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 5:58 AM John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
PTI's structure and functions have no relationship to the ccwg's. I do not understand why people keep bringing it up. PTI does administrative activities under contract to icann and others. It does nothing even a little bit like giving out grants.
Autocorrectly, John
-------- Original message -------- From: Maureen Hilyard <maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> Date: 7/25/19 08:46 (GMT-08:00) To: marienoemie.marques@orange.com Cc: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca>, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>, CCWG Auction Proceeds <ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] New Deadline - 26 July 2019 - input on updated draft Final Report and outstanding questions Thank you for reminding us of this connection which we raised as an option to consider very early in our discussions but was ignored. On Thu, 25 Jul 2019, 5:40 AM , <marienoemie.marques@orange.com> wrote:
Would it be helpful, just for information, to note that : "Public Technical Identifiers (PTI) was incorporated in August 2016 as an affiliate of ICANN, and, through contracts and subcontracts with ICANN, began performing the IANA functions on behalf of ICANN in October 2016." -----Message d'origine----- De : Ccwg-auctionproceeds [mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org] De la part de Alan Greenberg Envoyé : jeudi 25 juillet 2019 17:36 À : John Levine Cc : CCWG Auction Proceeds Objet : Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] New Deadline - 26 July 2019 - input on updated draft Final Report and outstanding questions B was not an ICANN Subsidiary but some other existing entity that we could team up with so that we did not have to re-invent services that we could outsource. That being said, I am happy to eliminate it! Mechanism A always has the option of outsourcing some of the functions.
BTW, under the California law that we operate under, a Public Interest Corp cannot have a "subsidiary", but that is just a nomenclature issue.
Alan
At 25/07/2019 01:35 AM, John Levine wrote:
Mechanism B: I presume the phrase "established at a public charity" should be "established as a public charity". I do not understand why the issue of tax benefits is being raised as in our case all of the money is coming form ICANN which does not pay any taxes. So it SOUNDS like a benefit but is in fact meaningless in our case. It should be made clear that at this point, it is not clear what parts would be outsourced and what will be kept within ICANN (except the application evaluation which must be outsourced). I believe that this is supposed to say that ICANN establishes a captive foundation as a subsidiary.
Having done exactly that at ISOC, I can say that for the CCWG's purposes, giving away a one-time pile of money, this mechanism is inferior in every way to mechanism A. It costs more, takes longer, has a lot more bureaucratic overhead, and can do no more or no less than mechanism A. As Alan notes, it has no tax benefits. It is a waste of everyone's time to pursue it further.
If anyone has a concrete reason why they believe this would be a good idea, and is reasonably familiar with US non-profit tax law so they understand what's involved, I would like to hear about it.
R's, John
PS: ISOC's situation is quite different and it makes sense for us. If anyone wants details write me privately.
Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you.
_______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. --
Carolina Caeiro *Coordinadora de Proyectos de Desarrollo* Coordinator of Development Projects /www.lacnic.net <http://www.lacnic.net> Latin American and Caribbean Internet Addresses Registry/
Hi Carolina, Thanks very much for sharing this input, which is being compiled with the other feedback received. You can find the CCWG Agreements document here: https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/102138829/new%20gTLD%20AP%2.... It is also available at the bottom of this wiki page: https://community.icann.org/display/CWGONGAP/Initial+Report+Public+Comment+R.... Kind regards, Emily From: Ccwg-auctionproceeds <ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Carolina Caeiro <carolina@lacnic.net> Date: Friday, 26 July 2019 at 20:21 To: "ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org" <ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] New Deadline - 26 July 2019 - input on updated draft Final Report and outstanding questions Dear all, Please find my comments to the report attached. On the more substantive matters: 1. My preference would be that the CCWG recommend one single mechanism, so that work can start as soon as possible. I would be Ok with recommending two if we continue to be unable to arrive to an agreement. 2. As stated by Eliot and Sylvia, we should ensure we bring community input into the process. This in my view would enrich any mechanism, A, B or C. I support Sylvia's proposal that we outline what that community engagement would look like to best inform the work of the implementing team (just to be clear, I am talking about the community advisory board and an independent evaluation panel). I won't have the chance to review the text circulated by Emily today, but will try to do so prior to the next meeting on Wednesday. 4. In terms of preferred mechanisms, I incline for Mechanism A. I think there is more agreement than we think on the safeguards that we want to provide among both supporters of mechanisms A and C: independence, cost-efficiency of the mechanism, community engagement. My sense is that we should prioritize what allows us to more swiftly get to work, and that for whichever mechanism we pick, we ensure those safeguards are in place. Lastly, Emily, the report references the CCWG Agreements by number. Could you please circulate the document where all those agreements are compiled? Happy weekend to you all, Carolina El 25/7/19 a las 15:03, Alan Greenberg escribió: How autonomous an affiliate organization is (that is the correct term in lieu of "subsidiary") is wholly dependant on its Bylaws and Board composition. In the case of PTI/IANA, the Board has five member, three of who are appointed by ICANN. That gives ICANN full control unless a vote needs a supermajority (rare if ever). Alan At 25/07/2019 12:26 PM, Maureen Hilyard wrote: John The point is that ICANN can create a structure/department that can act autonomously On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 5:58 AM John Levine <johnl@taugh.com><mailto:johnl@taugh.com> wrote: PTI's structure and functions have no relationship to the ccwg's. I do not understand why people keep bringing it up. PTI does administrative activities under contract to icann and others. It does nothing even a little bit like giving out grants. Autocorrectly, John -------- Original message -------- From: Maureen Hilyard <maureen.hilyard@gmail.com><mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com> Date: 7/25/19 08:46 (GMT-08:00) To: marienoemie.marques@orange.com<mailto:marienoemie.marques@orange.com> Cc: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca><mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca>, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com><mailto:johnl@taugh.com>, CCWG Auction Proceeds <ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org><mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] New Deadline - 26 July 2019 - input on updated draft Final Report and outstanding questions Thank you for reminding us of this connection which we raised as an option to consider very early in our discussions but was ignored. On Thu, 25 Jul 2019, 5:40 AM , <marienoemie.marques@orange.com><mailto:marienoemie.marques@orange.com> wrote: Would it be helpful, just for information, to note that : "Public Technical Identifiers (PTI) was incorporated in August 2016 as an affiliate of ICANN, and, through contracts and subcontracts with ICANN, began performing the IANA functions on behalf of ICANN in October 2016." -----Message d'origine----- De : Ccwg-auctionproceeds [mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org] De la part de Alan Greenberg Envoyé : jeudi 25 juillet 2019 17:36 À : John Levine Cc : CCWG Auction Proceeds Objet : Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] New Deadline - 26 July 2019 - input on updated draft Final Report and outstanding questions B was not an ICANN Subsidiary but some other existing entity that we could team up with so that we did not have to re-invent services that we could outsource. That being said, I am happy to eliminate it! Mechanism A always has the option of outsourcing some of the functions. BTW, under the California law that we operate under, a Public Interest Corp cannot have a "subsidiary", but that is just a nomenclature issue. Alan At 25/07/2019 01:35 AM, John Levine wrote: Mechanism B: I presume the phrase "established at a public charity" should be "established as a public charity". I do not understand why the issue of tax benefits is being raised as in our case all of the money is coming form ICANN which does not pay any taxes. So it SOUNDS like a benefit but is in fact meaningless in our case. It should be made clear that at this point, it is not clear what parts would be outsourced and what will be kept within ICANN (except the application evaluation which must be outsourced). I believe that this is supposed to say that ICANN establishes a captive foundation as a subsidiary. Having done exactly that at ISOC, I can say that for the CCWG's purposes, giving away a one-time pile of money, this mechanism is inferior in every way to mechanism A. It costs more, takes longer, has a lot more bureaucratic overhead, and can do no more or no less than mechanism A. As Alan notes, it has no tax benefits. It is a waste of everyone's time to pursue it further. If anyone has a concrete reason why they believe this would be a good idea, and is reasonably familiar with US non-profit tax law so they understand what's involved, I would like to hear about it. R's, John PS: ISOC's situation is quite different and it makes sense for us. If anyone wants details write me privately. _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org<mailto:Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy [icann.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_p...>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos [icann.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_t...>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org<mailto:Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy [icann.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_p...>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos [icann.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_t...>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org<mailto:Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy [icann.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_p...>) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos [icann.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_privacy_t...>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. -- Carolina Caeiro Coordinadora de Proyectos de Desarrollo Coordinator of Development Projects www.lacnic.net [lacnic.net]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.lacnic.net&d=DwMD-g&...> Latin American and Caribbean Internet Addresses Registry
participants (3)
-
Alan Greenberg -
Carolina Caeiro -
Emily Barabas