Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP
I do not think that anyone is proposing that we do ANYTHING that will endanger ICANN, and we all need to be diligent on that. However, it is far from clear that we do that by taking on projects that ICANN itself could not within its mission. If all that we can do is CLEARLY within its mission, then we may as well just put the money into ICANN's operational budget and save ourselves a lot of work in this CCWG, and a lot of cost administering projects that we could just allow ICANN itself to oversee. There is a difference between being prudent and being wise. Alan At 04/09/2017 05:04 PM, Anthony Harris wrote:
I agree with this statement from James. Too much can be risked if this runs off the tracks.
Tony Harris
On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 4:05 PM, James Gannon <<mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net>james@cyberinvasion.net> wrote:
I agree to a point Erica.
And allow me to be slightly less diplomatic for a moment,
I think what the crux of the issue is is that many people have seen the potential impact of the 250m in the fund and have amazing ideas on the impact that that may have. However what we have lost sight of is the fact that that fund pales in comparison to the value that ICANN derives from being secure and stable. In my own personal opinion any steps by any groups to make, allow or encourage ICANN to act outside of its very carefully crafted mission must be pushed back on by the community.
We have just exited a very stressful and impactful 3 years where we battled to wrest control of ICANN to the community, and one of the greatest battles we fought was to enshrine a limited mission into ICANNs bylaws to apply to everything and anything ICANN does. To many across ICANN was one of the hardest fought battles we had. And we cannot as the ICANN community immediately put that back at risk (And yes I do feel that disbursing the auction funds outside of the mission would do that) and threaten to turn back on 3 years of work for the potential impact of 250m USD. The value we gain from not doing that and having a stable coordinator of the DNS is much much greater than any impact the auction funds could have.
If in fact we are going to reopen the mission discussion we should seriously look at putting the auction fund in a high interest bearing account for 10 years and come back to this topic when the community is ready for another discussion about ICANNs mission and where the funds can be disbursed to.
From: Erika Mann [mailto:erika@erikamann.com] Sent: 04 September 2017 19:20 To: Daniel Dardailler <<mailto:danield@w3.org>danield@w3.org> Cc: Jon Nevett <jon@donuts.email>; James Gannon <<mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net>james@cyberinvasion.net>; <mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org>ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP
Dear Daniel, James, Jon, Olawale, All -
personally I believe we open a can of worms if we're going to bring is to the full CCWG to find a solution. We will only postpone the decision and will postpone therefore the implementation phase of the fund.
I rather hope that we can find a diplomatic solution, a solution that will satisfy the 'mission statement' concept but will on the other hand bring sufficient flexibility to the table to allow project evaluators in the future to utilize maximum flexibilities.
The 'open Internet' concept, if it's turned into a introductory paragraph, will help evaluators to understand the broader framing of the mission statement within a defined Open Internet concept.
BTW I do not agree that the current ICANN budget allows to support truly important projects, for example in the security and software area. And, so much more could be done in certain training areas, for example DNS software engineering, in particular if one would like to see greater participation in/from developing countries.
Thank you for your comments!
Kind regards,
Erika
On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Daniel Dardailler <<mailto:danield@w3.org>danield@w3.org> wrote:
On 2017-09-04 19:08, Jon Nevett wrote:
I agree with James here and don't think that the Board's position is a paradox. The ICANN org already is doing what it thinks it can do to support the ICANN mission based on its current financial position.
Is the current financial position of ICANN really an impediment to what ICANN wants to do in support of its mission ? I was under the impression that ICANN's budget was healthy enough to implement its mission optimally today, with also a large untouched pot coming from the new gTLD application process (unused legal costs if I understand correctly).
That doesn't mean that the ICANN community couldn't do more to support the mission with use of the auction proceeds.
How is it different to give away the funds to the ICANN community (for projects aligned with the ICANN mission) vs. to give them back to the board directly, given that the board is driven by the community ?
Moreover, will the board/ICANN community accept to delegate some of their responsibility to implement the ICANN mission to some external grantees ? Not without a clear control process IMO, which means ICANN will certainly have to manage the granting process itself (adding an intermediary foundation would raise too high the risks of funding doing bad things for ICANN/its mission).
Best, Jon
On Sep 4, 2017, at 12:38 PM, James Gannon <<mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net>james@cyberinvasion.net> wrote:
Yes agreed that this is the most crucial part of the response! But I think what the board is saying (And indeed what I have mentioned a few times) is that the funds are restricted by the ICANN mission and core values, and thus to look at disbursements outside of that, the mission and core values must be changed, which being very honest is not something that will happen in the short or medium term future and certainly not within the lifetime of this CCWG.
-James
-----Original Message----- From: <mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org>ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Dardailler Sent: 04 September 2017 17:23 To: Erika Mann <<mailto:erika@erikamann.com>erika@erikamann.com> Cc: <mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org>ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP
Thanks Erika.
To me, the important bit is this one: ".. If the CCWG is dissatisfied with the restrictions that the enumerated mission statement places on the outcomes of the CCWGâs work, that is a fundamental question for the ICANN community to resolve, as the ICANN Board is holding the organization to the mission that the ICANN community developed through the Enhancing ICANN Accountability process"
I think our current discussions on Open Internet description shows a consensus in our group wrt to the mission enumerated statement being too limited (i.e. only DNS, IP, protocols) for the scope we foresee.
If we can get consensus on this point, then we can start making a case in front of the ICANN community that the auction funds are special for various reasons:
- they are supposed to be used outside of the ICANN regular operational budget, but are legally restricted to be spent only on these operational items (mission listing). That's a paradox in itself. - they are supposed to be used for the good of the Internet (which we are turning into "in support of the Open Internet"), which is a concept not limited to the ICANN mission - they are a one time event and extending the scope of their granting beyond the ICANN limited mission will not endanger the ICANN mission and role itself. - ICANN doesn't live in a vacuum and there is value to ICANN (and its mission) to do a scope extension for these funds - ICANN's first commitment, in the By-Laws: "Preserve and enhance the administration of the DNS and the operational stability, reliability, security, global interoperability, resilience, and openness of the DNS and the Internet" covers our vision of scope extension pretty well since it can be read as "Preserve and enhance .. the operational stability, reliability, security, global interoperability, resilience, and openness of ... the Internet".
On 2017-09-04 16:29, Erika Mann wrote:
Dear All -
herewith I'm forwarding Steve's reply to our letter.
We will have a first exchange on Thursday this week, during our CCWG AP call. I send Steve already a quick reply, saying that we will discuss the Board letter then for the first time.
Best, Erika
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: STEVE CROCKER <<mailto:steve.crocker@board.icann.org>steve.crocker@board.icann.org> Date: Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 3:19 PM Subject: Board reply to CCWG-AP To: Erika Mann <<mailto:erika@erikamann.com>erika@erikamann.com>, Ching Chiao <<mailto:chiao@brandma.co>chiao@brandma.co>, Marika Konings <<mailto:marika.konings@icann.org>marika.konings@icann.org> Cc: Steve Crocker <<mailto:steve.crocker@board.icann.org>steve.crocker@board.icann.org>, Marika Konings <<mailto:marika.konings@icann.org>marika.konings@icann.org>, Icann-board ICANN <<mailto:icann-board@icann.org>icann-board@icann.org>, Avri Doria <<mailto:avri@apc.org>avri@apc.org>, "Sarah B. Deutsch" <<mailto:sarahbdeutsch@gmail.com>sarahbdeutsch@gmail.com>, Board Operations <<mailto:Board-Ops-Team@icann.org>Board-Ops-Team@icann.org>, Sally Costerton <<mailto:sally.costerton@icann.org>sally.costerton@icann.org>, Samantha Eisner <<mailto:Samantha.Eisner@icann.org>Samantha.Eisner@icann.org>, Lauren Allison <<mailto:lauren.allison@icann.org>lauren.allison@icann.org>
Dear Erika and Ching,
Thank you for your letter received on May 22, 2017 on behalf of the Cross Community Working Group on New gTLD Auction Proceeds (CCWG-AP) in response to the Board email of March 2nd 2017.
On behalf of the Board, I am delighted to see that we are aligned in our thinking regarding the points discussed in the original email. Specifically, in response to your letter, please find attached a letter including additional acknowledgements and requested clarifications.
Thank you again for your efforts leading this work.
Steve _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list <mailto:Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org>Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds
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+1 on all Alan wrote. I personally don't think we need to embark on a mission change crusade, which I agree would take years, but that we need to convince the ICANN community (and the board) that the funds being a one time shot and having been promised to be used for the good of the Internet and not for ICANN, we want to extend the scope of its granting to more than the mission proper and consider things that are in line with the first commitment of ICANN in the bylaws, to support Open Internet development. Since ICANN clearly depends on the Open Internet (e.g. tcp/http/html) to succeed, I don't see why the community would think doing this one-time exception would endanger ICANN's mission over the long term. On 2017-09-05 02:50, Alan Greenberg wrote:
I do not think that anyone is proposing that we do ANYTHING that will endanger ICANN, and we all need to be diligent on that.
However, it is far from clear that we do that by taking on projects that ICANN itself could not within its mission. If all that we can do is CLEARLY within its mission, then we may as well just put the money into ICANN's operational budget and save ourselves a lot of work in this CCWG, and a lot of cost administering projects that we could just allow ICANN itself to oversee.
There is a difference between being prudent and being wise.
Alan
At 04/09/2017 05:04 PM, Anthony Harris wrote:
I agree with this statement from James. Too much can be risked if this runs off the tracks.
Tony Harris
On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 4:05 PM, James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net > wrote:
I agree to a point Erica.
And allow me to be slightly less diplomatic for a moment,
I think what the crux of the issue is is that many people have seen the potential impact of the 250m in the fund and have amazing ideas on the impact that that may have. However what we have lost sight of is the fact that that fund pales in comparison to the value that ICANN derives from being secure and stable. In my own personal opinion any steps by any groups to make, allow or encourage ICANN to act outside of its very carefully crafted mission must be pushed back on by the community.
We have just exited a very stressful and impactful 3 years where we battled to wrest control of ICANN to the community, and one of the greatest battles we fought was to enshrine a limited mission into ICANNs bylaws to apply to everything and anything ICANN does. To many across ICANN was one of the hardest fought battles we had. And we cannot as the ICANN community immediately put that back at risk (And yes I do feel that disbursing the auction funds outside of the mission would do that) and threaten to turn back on 3 years of work for the potential impact of 250m USD. The value we gain from not doing that and having a stable coordinator of the DNS is much much greater than any impact the auction funds could have.
If in fact we are going to reopen the mission discussion we should seriously look at putting the auction fund in a high interest bearing account for 10 years and come back to this topic when the community is ready for another discussion about ICANNs mission and where the funds can be disbursed to.
From: Erika Mann [ mailto:erika@erikamann.com] Sent: 04 September 2017 19:20 To: Daniel Dardailler <danield@w3.org> Cc: Jon Nevett <jon@donuts.email>; James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net >; ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP
Dear Daniel, James, Jon, Olawale, All -
personally I believe we open a can of worms if we're going to bring is to the full CCWG to find a solution. We will only postpone the decision and will postpone therefore the implementation phase of the fund.
I rather hope that we can find a diplomatic solution, a solution that will satisfy the 'mission statement' concept but will on the other hand bring sufficient flexibility to the table to allow project evaluators in the future to utilize maximum flexibilities.
The 'open Internet' concept, if it's turned into a introductory paragraph, will help evaluators to understand the broader framing of the mission statement within a defined Open Internet concept.
BTW I do not agree that the current ICANN budget allows to support truly important projects, for example in the security and software area. And, so much more could be done in certain training areas, for example DNS software engineering, in particular if one would like to see greater participation in/from developing countries.
Thank you for your comments!
Kind regards,
Erika
On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Daniel Dardailler <danield@w3.org> wrote:
On 2017-09-04 19:08, Jon Nevett wrote:
I agree with James here and don't think that the Board's position is a paradox. The ICANN org already is doing what it thinks it can do to support the ICANN mission based on its current financial position.
Is the current financial position of ICANN really an impediment to what ICANN wants to do in support of its mission ? I was under the impression that ICANN's budget was healthy enough to implement its mission optimally today, with also a large untouched pot coming from the new gTLD application process (unused legal costs if I understand correctly).
That doesn't mean that the ICANN community couldn't do more to support the mission with use of the auction proceeds.
How is it different to give away the funds to the ICANN community (for projects aligned with the ICANN mission) vs. to give them back to the board directly, given that the board is driven by the community ?
Moreover, will the board/ICANN community accept to delegate some of their responsibility to implement the ICANN mission to some external grantees ? Not without a clear control process IMO, which means ICANN will certainly have to manage the granting process itself (adding an intermediary foundation would raise too high the risks of funding doing bad things for ICANN/its mission).
Best, Jon
On Sep 4, 2017, at 12:38 PM, James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net
wrote:
Yes agreed that this is the most crucial part of the response! But I think what the board is saying (And indeed what I have mentioned a few times) is that the funds are restricted by the ICANN mission and core values, and thus to look at disbursements outside of that, the mission and core values must be changed, which being very honest is not something that will happen in the short or medium term future and certainly not within the lifetime of this CCWG.
-James
-----Original Message----- From: ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org [ mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Dardailler Sent: 04 September 2017 17:23 To: Erika Mann <erika@erikamann.com> Cc: ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP
Thanks Erika.
To me, the important bit is this one: ".. If the CCWG is dissatisfied with the restrictions that the enumerated mission statement places on the outcomes of the CCWG’s work, that is a fundamental question for the ICANN community to resolve, as the ICANN Board is holding the organization to the mission that the ICANN community developed through the Enhancing ICANN Accountability process"
I think our current discussions on Open Internet description shows a consensus in our group wrt to the mission enumerated statement being too limited (i.e. only DNS, IP, protocols) for the scope we foresee.
If we can get consensus on this point, then we can start making a case in front of the ICANN community that the auction funds are special for various reasons:
- they are supposed to be used outside of the ICANN regular operational budget, but are legally restricted to be spent only on these operational items (mission listing). That's a paradox in itself. - they are supposed to be used for the good of the Internet (which we are turning into "in support of the Open Internet"), which is a concept not limited to the ICANN mission - they are a one time event and extending the scope of their granting beyond the ICANN limited mission will not endanger the ICANN mission and role itself. - ICANN doesn't live in a vacuum and there is value to ICANN (and its mission) to do a scope extension for these funds - ICANN's first commitment, in the By-Laws: "Preserve and enhance the administration of the DNS and the operational stability, reliability, security, global interoperability, resilience, and openness of the DNS and the Internet" covers our vision of scope extension pretty well since it can be read as "Preserve and enhance .. the operational stability, reliability, security, global interoperability, resilience, and openness of ... the Internet".
On 2017-09-04 16:29, Erika Mann wrote:
Dear All -
herewith I'm forwarding Steve's reply to our letter.
We will have a first exchange on Thursday this week, during our CCWG AP call. I send Steve already a quick reply, saying that we will discuss the Board letter then for the first time.
Best, Erika
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: STEVE CROCKER < steve.crocker@board.icann.org> Date: Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 3:19 PM Subject: Board reply to CCWG-AP To: Erika Mann <erika@erikamann.com>, Ching Chiao <chiao@brandma.co>, Marika Konings <marika.konings@icann.org > Cc: Steve Crocker < steve.crocker@board.icann.org>, Marika Konings < marika.konings@icann.org>, Icann-board ICANN <icann-board@icann.org >, Avri Doria <avri@apc.org>, "Sarah B. Deutsch" < sarahbdeutsch@gmail.com>, Board Operations < Board-Ops-Team@icann.org>, Sally Costerton < sally.costerton@icann.org>, Samantha Eisner < Samantha.Eisner@icann.org>, Lauren Allison <lauren.allison@icann.org >
Dear Erika and Ching,
Thank you for your letter received on May 22, 2017 on behalf of the Cross Community Working Group on New gTLD Auction Proceeds (CCWG-AP) in response to the Board email of March 2nd 2017.
On behalf of the Board, I am delighted to see that we are aligned in our thinking regarding the points discussed in the original email. Specifically, in response to your letter, please find attached a letter including additional acknowledgements and requested clarifications.
Thank you again for your efforts leading this work.
Steve _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds [1]
_______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds [1] _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds [1]
_______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds [1]
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I don’t agree, a 'one time' exception sets a precedent, and personally Im not sure if its even legally possible to knowingly violate the mission even if it’s a 'one time' action. -J -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Dardailler [mailto:danield@w3.org] Sent: 05 September 2017 10:53 To: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> Cc: Anthony Harris <anthonyrharris@gmail.com>; James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net>; ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP +1 on all Alan wrote. I personally don't think we need to embark on a mission change crusade, which I agree would take years, but that we need to convince the ICANN community (and the board) that the funds being a one time shot and having been promised to be used for the good of the Internet and not for ICANN, we want to extend the scope of its granting to more than the mission proper and consider things that are in line with the first commitment of ICANN in the bylaws, to support Open Internet development. Since ICANN clearly depends on the Open Internet (e.g. tcp/http/html) to succeed, I don't see why the community would think doing this one-time exception would endanger ICANN's mission over the long term. On 2017-09-05 02:50, Alan Greenberg wrote:
I do not think that anyone is proposing that we do ANYTHING that will endanger ICANN, and we all need to be diligent on that.
However, it is far from clear that we do that by taking on projects that ICANN itself could not within its mission. If all that we can do is CLEARLY within its mission, then we may as well just put the money into ICANN's operational budget and save ourselves a lot of work in this CCWG, and a lot of cost administering projects that we could just allow ICANN itself to oversee.
There is a difference between being prudent and being wise.
Alan
At 04/09/2017 05:04 PM, Anthony Harris wrote:
I agree with this statement from James. Too much can be risked if this runs off the tracks.
Tony Harris
On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 4:05 PM, James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net
wrote:
I agree to a point Erica.
And allow me to be slightly less diplomatic for a moment,
I think what the crux of the issue is is that many people have seen the potential impact of the 250m in the fund and have amazing ideas on the impact that that may have. However what we have lost sight of is the fact that that fund pales in comparison to the value that ICANN derives from being secure and stable. In my own personal opinion any steps by any groups to make, allow or encourage ICANN to act outside of its very carefully crafted mission must be pushed back on by the community.
We have just exited a very stressful and impactful 3 years where we battled to wrest control of ICANN to the community, and one of the greatest battles we fought was to enshrine a limited mission into ICANNs bylaws to apply to everything and anything ICANN does. To many across ICANN was one of the hardest fought battles we had. And we cannot as the ICANN community immediately put that back at risk (And yes I do feel that disbursing the auction funds outside of the mission would do that) and threaten to turn back on 3 years of work for the potential impact of 250m USD. The value we gain from not doing that and having a stable coordinator of the DNS is much much greater than any impact the auction funds could have.
If in fact we are going to reopen the mission discussion we should seriously look at putting the auction fund in a high interest bearing account for 10 years and come back to this topic when the community is ready for another discussion about ICANNs mission and where the funds can be disbursed to.
From: Erika Mann [ mailto:erika@erikamann.com] Sent: 04 September 2017 19:20 To: Daniel Dardailler <danield@w3.org> Cc: Jon Nevett <jon@donuts.email>; James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net >; ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP
Dear Daniel, James, Jon, Olawale, All -
personally I believe we open a can of worms if we're going to bring is to the full CCWG to find a solution. We will only postpone the decision and will postpone therefore the implementation phase of the fund.
I rather hope that we can find a diplomatic solution, a solution that will satisfy the 'mission statement' concept but will on the other hand bring sufficient flexibility to the table to allow project evaluators in the future to utilize maximum flexibilities.
The 'open Internet' concept, if it's turned into a introductory paragraph, will help evaluators to understand the broader framing of the mission statement within a defined Open Internet concept.
BTW I do not agree that the current ICANN budget allows to support truly important projects, for example in the security and software area. And, so much more could be done in certain training areas, for example DNS software engineering, in particular if one would like to see greater participation in/from developing countries.
Thank you for your comments!
Kind regards,
Erika
On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Daniel Dardailler <danield@w3.org> wrote:
On 2017-09-04 19:08, Jon Nevett wrote:
I agree with James here and don't think that the Board's position is a paradox. The ICANN org already is doing what it thinks it can do to support the ICANN mission based on its current financial position.
Is the current financial position of ICANN really an impediment to what ICANN wants to do in support of its mission ? I was under the impression that ICANN's budget was healthy enough to implement its mission optimally today, with also a large untouched pot coming from the new gTLD application process (unused legal costs if I understand correctly).
That doesn't mean that the ICANN community couldn't do more to support the mission with use of the auction proceeds.
How is it different to give away the funds to the ICANN community (for projects aligned with the ICANN mission) vs. to give them back to the board directly, given that the board is driven by the community ?
Moreover, will the board/ICANN community accept to delegate some of their responsibility to implement the ICANN mission to some external grantees ? Not without a clear control process IMO, which means ICANN will certainly have to manage the granting process itself (adding an intermediary foundation would raise too high the risks of funding doing bad things for ICANN/its mission).
Best, Jon
On Sep 4, 2017, at 12:38 PM, James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net
wrote:
Yes agreed that this is the most crucial part of the response! But I think what the board is saying (And indeed what I have mentioned a few times) is that the funds are restricted by the ICANN mission and core values, and thus to look at disbursements outside of that, the mission and core values must be changed, which being very honest is not something that will happen in the short or medium term future and certainly not within the lifetime of this CCWG.
-James
-----Original Message----- From: ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org [ mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Dardailler Sent: 04 September 2017 17:23 To: Erika Mann <erika@erikamann.com> Cc: ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP
Thanks Erika.
To me, the important bit is this one: ".. If the CCWG is dissatisfied with the restrictions that the enumerated mission statement places on the outcomes of the CCWG’s work, that is a fundamental question for the ICANN community to resolve, as the ICANN Board is holding the organization to the mission that the ICANN community developed through the Enhancing ICANN Accountability process"
I think our current discussions on Open Internet description shows a consensus in our group wrt to the mission enumerated statement being too limited (i.e. only DNS, IP, protocols) for the scope we foresee.
If we can get consensus on this point, then we can start making a case in front of the ICANN community that the auction funds are special for various reasons:
- they are supposed to be used outside of the ICANN regular operational budget, but are legally restricted to be spent only on these operational items (mission listing). That's a paradox in itself. - they are supposed to be used for the good of the Internet (which we are turning into "in support of the Open Internet"), which is a concept not limited to the ICANN mission - they are a one time event and extending the scope of their granting beyond the ICANN limited mission will not endanger the ICANN mission and role itself. - ICANN doesn't live in a vacuum and there is value to ICANN (and its mission) to do a scope extension for these funds - ICANN's first commitment, in the By-Laws: "Preserve and enhance the administration of the DNS and the operational stability, reliability, security, global interoperability, resilience, and openness of the DNS and the Internet" covers our vision of scope extension pretty well since it can be read as "Preserve and enhance .. the operational stability, reliability, security, global interoperability, resilience, and openness of ... the Internet".
On 2017-09-04 16:29, Erika Mann wrote:
Dear All -
herewith I'm forwarding Steve's reply to our letter.
We will have a first exchange on Thursday this week, during our CCWG AP call. I send Steve already a quick reply, saying that we will discuss the Board letter then for the first time.
Best, Erika
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: STEVE CROCKER < steve.crocker@board.icann.org> Date: Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 3:19 PM Subject: Board reply to CCWG-AP To: Erika Mann <erika@erikamann.com>, Ching Chiao <chiao@brandma.co>, Marika Konings <marika.konings@icann.org > Cc: Steve Crocker < steve.crocker@board.icann.org>, Marika Konings < marika.konings@icann.org>, Icann-board ICANN <icann-board@icann.org
, Avri Doria <avri@apc.org>, "Sarah B. Deutsch" < sarahbdeutsch@gmail.com>, Board Operations < Board-Ops-Team@icann.org>, Sally Costerton < sally.costerton@icann.org>, Samantha Eisner < Samantha.Eisner@icann.org>, Lauren Allison <lauren.allison@icann.org
Dear Erika and Ching,
Thank you for your letter received on May 22, 2017 on behalf of the Cross Community Working Group on New gTLD Auction Proceeds (CCWG-AP) in response to the Board email of March 2nd 2017.
On behalf of the Board, I am delighted to see that we are aligned in our thinking regarding the points discussed in the original email. Specifically, in response to your letter, please find attached a letter including additional acknowledgements and requested clarifications.
Thank you again for your efforts leading this work.
Steve _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds [1]
_______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds [1] _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds [1]
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On 2017-09-05 11:59, James Gannon wrote:
I don’t agree, a 'one time' exception sets a precedent,
True, but less so if the context that created the exception is itself a one-timer.
and personally Im not sure if its even legally possible to knowingly violate the mission even if it’s a 'one time' action.
From what I understood in previous legal discussions, the overall mission alignment is something that the ICANN community itself is responsible for evaluating, and not the legal auditor checking the accounts (who most probably can't make the difference between what ICANN, ITU, IETF or IEEE do for the Internet)
-J
-----Original Message----- From: Daniel Dardailler [mailto:danield@w3.org] Sent: 05 September 2017 10:53 To: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> Cc: Anthony Harris <anthonyrharris@gmail.com>; James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net>; ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP
+1 on all Alan wrote.
I personally don't think we need to embark on a mission change crusade, which I agree would take years, but that we need to convince the ICANN community (and the board) that the funds being a one time shot and having been promised to be used for the good of the Internet and not for ICANN, we want to extend the scope of its granting to more than the mission proper and consider things that are in line with the first commitment of ICANN in the bylaws, to support Open Internet development. Since ICANN clearly depends on the Open Internet (e.g. tcp/http/html) to succeed, I don't see why the community would think doing this one-time exception would endanger ICANN's mission over the long term.
On 2017-09-05 02:50, Alan Greenberg wrote:
I do not think that anyone is proposing that we do ANYTHING that will endanger ICANN, and we all need to be diligent on that.
However, it is far from clear that we do that by taking on projects that ICANN itself could not within its mission. If all that we can do is CLEARLY within its mission, then we may as well just put the money into ICANN's operational budget and save ourselves a lot of work in this CCWG, and a lot of cost administering projects that we could just allow ICANN itself to oversee.
There is a difference between being prudent and being wise.
Alan
At 04/09/2017 05:04 PM, Anthony Harris wrote:
I agree with this statement from James. Too much can be risked if this runs off the tracks.
Tony Harris
On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 4:05 PM, James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net
wrote:
I agree to a point Erica.
And allow me to be slightly less diplomatic for a moment,
I think what the crux of the issue is is that many people have seen the potential impact of the 250m in the fund and have amazing ideas on the impact that that may have. However what we have lost sight of is the fact that that fund pales in comparison to the value that ICANN derives from being secure and stable. In my own personal opinion any steps by any groups to make, allow or encourage ICANN to act outside of its very carefully crafted mission must be pushed back on by the community.
We have just exited a very stressful and impactful 3 years where we battled to wrest control of ICANN to the community, and one of the greatest battles we fought was to enshrine a limited mission into ICANNs bylaws to apply to everything and anything ICANN does. To many across ICANN was one of the hardest fought battles we had. And we cannot as the ICANN community immediately put that back at risk (And yes I do feel that disbursing the auction funds outside of the mission would do that) and threaten to turn back on 3 years of work for the potential impact of 250m USD. The value we gain from not doing that and having a stable coordinator of the DNS is much much greater than any impact the auction funds could have.
If in fact we are going to reopen the mission discussion we should seriously look at putting the auction fund in a high interest bearing account for 10 years and come back to this topic when the community is ready for another discussion about ICANNs mission and where the funds can be disbursed to.
From: Erika Mann [ mailto:erika@erikamann.com] Sent: 04 September 2017 19:20 To: Daniel Dardailler <danield@w3.org> Cc: Jon Nevett <jon@donuts.email>; James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net >; ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP
Dear Daniel, James, Jon, Olawale, All -
personally I believe we open a can of worms if we're going to bring is to the full CCWG to find a solution. We will only postpone the decision and will postpone therefore the implementation phase of the fund.
I rather hope that we can find a diplomatic solution, a solution that will satisfy the 'mission statement' concept but will on the other hand bring sufficient flexibility to the table to allow project evaluators in the future to utilize maximum flexibilities.
The 'open Internet' concept, if it's turned into a introductory paragraph, will help evaluators to understand the broader framing of the mission statement within a defined Open Internet concept.
BTW I do not agree that the current ICANN budget allows to support truly important projects, for example in the security and software area. And, so much more could be done in certain training areas, for example DNS software engineering, in particular if one would like to see greater participation in/from developing countries.
Thank you for your comments!
Kind regards,
Erika
On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Daniel Dardailler <danield@w3.org> wrote:
On 2017-09-04 19:08, Jon Nevett wrote:
I agree with James here and don't think that the Board's position is a paradox. The ICANN org already is doing what it thinks it can do to support the ICANN mission based on its current financial position.
Is the current financial position of ICANN really an impediment to what ICANN wants to do in support of its mission ? I was under the impression that ICANN's budget was healthy enough to implement its mission optimally today, with also a large untouched pot coming from the new gTLD application process (unused legal costs if I understand correctly).
That doesn't mean that the ICANN community couldn't do more to support the mission with use of the auction proceeds.
How is it different to give away the funds to the ICANN community (for projects aligned with the ICANN mission) vs. to give them back to the board directly, given that the board is driven by the community ?
Moreover, will the board/ICANN community accept to delegate some of their responsibility to implement the ICANN mission to some external grantees ? Not without a clear control process IMO, which means ICANN will certainly have to manage the granting process itself (adding an intermediary foundation would raise too high the risks of funding doing bad things for ICANN/its mission).
Best, Jon
On Sep 4, 2017, at 12:38 PM, James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net
wrote:
Yes agreed that this is the most crucial part of the response! But I think what the board is saying (And indeed what I have mentioned a few times) is that the funds are restricted by the ICANN mission and core values, and thus to look at disbursements outside of that, the mission and core values must be changed, which being very honest is not something that will happen in the short or medium term future and certainly not within the lifetime of this CCWG.
-James
-----Original Message----- From: ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org [ mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Dardailler Sent: 04 September 2017 17:23 To: Erika Mann <erika@erikamann.com> Cc: ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP
Thanks Erika.
To me, the important bit is this one: ".. If the CCWG is dissatisfied with the restrictions that the enumerated mission statement places on the outcomes of the CCWG’s work, that is a fundamental question for the ICANN community to resolve, as the ICANN Board is holding the organization to the mission that the ICANN community developed through the Enhancing ICANN Accountability process"
I think our current discussions on Open Internet description shows a consensus in our group wrt to the mission enumerated statement being too limited (i.e. only DNS, IP, protocols) for the scope we foresee.
If we can get consensus on this point, then we can start making a case in front of the ICANN community that the auction funds are special for various reasons:
- they are supposed to be used outside of the ICANN regular operational budget, but are legally restricted to be spent only on these operational items (mission listing). That's a paradox in itself. - they are supposed to be used for the good of the Internet (which we are turning into "in support of the Open Internet"), which is a concept not limited to the ICANN mission - they are a one time event and extending the scope of their granting beyond the ICANN limited mission will not endanger the ICANN mission and role itself. - ICANN doesn't live in a vacuum and there is value to ICANN (and its mission) to do a scope extension for these funds - ICANN's first commitment, in the By-Laws: "Preserve and enhance the administration of the DNS and the operational stability, reliability, security, global interoperability, resilience, and openness of the DNS and the Internet" covers our vision of scope extension pretty well since it can be read as "Preserve and enhance .. the operational stability, reliability, security, global interoperability, resilience, and openness of ... the Internet".
On 2017-09-04 16:29, Erika Mann wrote:
Dear All -
herewith I'm forwarding Steve's reply to our letter.
We will have a first exchange on Thursday this week, during our CCWG AP call. I send Steve already a quick reply, saying that we will discuss the Board letter then for the first time.
Best, Erika
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: STEVE CROCKER < steve.crocker@board.icann.org> Date: Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 3:19 PM Subject: Board reply to CCWG-AP To: Erika Mann <erika@erikamann.com>, Ching Chiao <chiao@brandma.co>, Marika Konings <marika.konings@icann.org > Cc: Steve Crocker < steve.crocker@board.icann.org>, Marika Konings < marika.konings@icann.org>, Icann-board ICANN <icann-board@icann.org
, Avri Doria <avri@apc.org>, "Sarah B. Deutsch" < sarahbdeutsch@gmail.com>, Board Operations < Board-Ops-Team@icann.org>, Sally Costerton < sally.costerton@icann.org>, Samantha Eisner < Samantha.Eisner@icann.org>, Lauren Allison <lauren.allison@icann.org
Dear Erika and Ching,
Thank you for your letter received on May 22, 2017 on behalf of the Cross Community Working Group on New gTLD Auction Proceeds (CCWG-AP) in response to the Board email of March 2nd 2017.
On behalf of the Board, I am delighted to see that we are aligned in our thinking regarding the points discussed in the original email. Specifically, in response to your letter, please find attached a letter including additional acknowledgements and requested clarifications.
Thank you again for your efforts leading this work.
Steve _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds [1]
_______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds [1] _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds [1]
_______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds [1]
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Yes and no, the community is responsible for setting the mission and core values through the approval of the fundamental bylaws. Interpretations and application of fiduciary duty to the mission is the responsibility of the board. So changing the bylaws to allow for an exception would be the only way to facilitate such a situation, and that is something that I don’t think the community would or should support. -JG -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Dardailler [mailto:danield@w3.org] Sent: 05 September 2017 11:12 To: James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net> Cc: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca>; Anthony Harris <anthonyrharris@gmail.com>; ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP On 2017-09-05 11:59, James Gannon wrote:
I don’t agree, a 'one time' exception sets a precedent,
True, but less so if the context that created the exception is itself a one-timer.
and personally Im not sure if its even legally possible to knowingly violate the mission even if it’s a 'one time' action.
From what I understood in previous legal discussions, the overall mission alignment is something that the ICANN community itself is responsible for evaluating, and not the legal auditor checking the accounts (who most probably can't make the difference between what ICANN, ITU, IETF or IEEE do for the Internet)
-J
-----Original Message----- From: Daniel Dardailler [mailto:danield@w3.org] Sent: 05 September 2017 10:53 To: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> Cc: Anthony Harris <anthonyrharris@gmail.com>; James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net>; ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP
+1 on all Alan wrote.
I personally don't think we need to embark on a mission change crusade, which I agree would take years, but that we need to convince the ICANN community (and the board) that the funds being a one time shot and having been promised to be used for the good of the Internet and not for ICANN, we want to extend the scope of its granting to more than the mission proper and consider things that are in line with the first commitment of ICANN in the bylaws, to support Open Internet development. Since ICANN clearly depends on the Open Internet (e.g. tcp/http/html) to succeed, I don't see why the community would think doing this one-time exception would endanger ICANN's mission over the long term.
On 2017-09-05 02:50, Alan Greenberg wrote:
I do not think that anyone is proposing that we do ANYTHING that will endanger ICANN, and we all need to be diligent on that.
However, it is far from clear that we do that by taking on projects that ICANN itself could not within its mission. If all that we can do is CLEARLY within its mission, then we may as well just put the money into ICANN's operational budget and save ourselves a lot of work in this CCWG, and a lot of cost administering projects that we could just allow ICANN itself to oversee.
There is a difference between being prudent and being wise.
Alan
At 04/09/2017 05:04 PM, Anthony Harris wrote:
I agree with this statement from James. Too much can be risked if this runs off the tracks.
Tony Harris
On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 4:05 PM, James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net
wrote:
I agree to a point Erica.
And allow me to be slightly less diplomatic for a moment,
I think what the crux of the issue is is that many people have seen the potential impact of the 250m in the fund and have amazing ideas on the impact that that may have. However what we have lost sight of is the fact that that fund pales in comparison to the value that ICANN derives from being secure and stable. In my own personal opinion any steps by any groups to make, allow or encourage ICANN to act outside of its very carefully crafted mission must be pushed back on by the community.
We have just exited a very stressful and impactful 3 years where we battled to wrest control of ICANN to the community, and one of the greatest battles we fought was to enshrine a limited mission into ICANNs bylaws to apply to everything and anything ICANN does. To many across ICANN was one of the hardest fought battles we had. And we cannot as the ICANN community immediately put that back at risk (And yes I do feel that disbursing the auction funds outside of the mission would do that) and threaten to turn back on 3 years of work for the potential impact of 250m USD. The value we gain from not doing that and having a stable coordinator of the DNS is much much greater than any impact the auction funds could have.
If in fact we are going to reopen the mission discussion we should seriously look at putting the auction fund in a high interest bearing account for 10 years and come back to this topic when the community is ready for another discussion about ICANNs mission and where the funds can be disbursed to.
From: Erika Mann [ mailto:erika@erikamann.com] Sent: 04 September 2017 19:20 To: Daniel Dardailler <danield@w3.org> Cc: Jon Nevett <jon@donuts.email>; James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net >; ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP
Dear Daniel, James, Jon, Olawale, All -
personally I believe we open a can of worms if we're going to bring is to the full CCWG to find a solution. We will only postpone the decision and will postpone therefore the implementation phase of the fund.
I rather hope that we can find a diplomatic solution, a solution that will satisfy the 'mission statement' concept but will on the other hand bring sufficient flexibility to the table to allow project evaluators in the future to utilize maximum flexibilities.
The 'open Internet' concept, if it's turned into a introductory paragraph, will help evaluators to understand the broader framing of the mission statement within a defined Open Internet concept.
BTW I do not agree that the current ICANN budget allows to support truly important projects, for example in the security and software area. And, so much more could be done in certain training areas, for example DNS software engineering, in particular if one would like to see greater participation in/from developing countries.
Thank you for your comments!
Kind regards,
Erika
On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Daniel Dardailler <danield@w3.org> wrote:
On 2017-09-04 19:08, Jon Nevett wrote:
I agree with James here and don't think that the Board's position is a paradox. The ICANN org already is doing what it thinks it can do to support the ICANN mission based on its current financial position.
Is the current financial position of ICANN really an impediment to what ICANN wants to do in support of its mission ? I was under the impression that ICANN's budget was healthy enough to implement its mission optimally today, with also a large untouched pot coming from the new gTLD application process (unused legal costs if I understand correctly).
That doesn't mean that the ICANN community couldn't do more to support the mission with use of the auction proceeds.
How is it different to give away the funds to the ICANN community (for projects aligned with the ICANN mission) vs. to give them back to the board directly, given that the board is driven by the community ?
Moreover, will the board/ICANN community accept to delegate some of their responsibility to implement the ICANN mission to some external grantees ? Not without a clear control process IMO, which means ICANN will certainly have to manage the granting process itself (adding an intermediary foundation would raise too high the risks of funding doing bad things for ICANN/its mission).
Best, Jon
On Sep 4, 2017, at 12:38 PM, James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net
wrote:
Yes agreed that this is the most crucial part of the response! But I think what the board is saying (And indeed what I have mentioned a few times) is that the funds are restricted by the ICANN mission and core values, and thus to look at disbursements outside of that, the mission and core values must be changed, which being very honest is not something that will happen in the short or medium term future and certainly not within the lifetime of this CCWG.
-James
-----Original Message----- From: ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org [ mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Dardailler Sent: 04 September 2017 17:23 To: Erika Mann <erika@erikamann.com> Cc: ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP
Thanks Erika.
To me, the important bit is this one: ".. If the CCWG is dissatisfied with the restrictions that the enumerated mission statement places on the outcomes of the CCWG’s work, that is a fundamental question for the ICANN community to resolve, as the ICANN Board is holding the organization to the mission that the ICANN community developed through the Enhancing ICANN Accountability process"
I think our current discussions on Open Internet description shows a consensus in our group wrt to the mission enumerated statement being too limited (i.e. only DNS, IP, protocols) for the scope we foresee.
If we can get consensus on this point, then we can start making a case in front of the ICANN community that the auction funds are special for various reasons:
- they are supposed to be used outside of the ICANN regular operational budget, but are legally restricted to be spent only on these operational items (mission listing). That's a paradox in itself. - they are supposed to be used for the good of the Internet (which we are turning into "in support of the Open Internet"), which is a concept not limited to the ICANN mission - they are a one time event and extending the scope of their granting beyond the ICANN limited mission will not endanger the ICANN mission and role itself. - ICANN doesn't live in a vacuum and there is value to ICANN (and its mission) to do a scope extension for these funds - ICANN's first commitment, in the By-Laws: "Preserve and enhance the administration of the DNS and the operational stability, reliability, security, global interoperability, resilience, and openness of the DNS and the Internet" covers our vision of scope extension pretty well since it can be read as "Preserve and enhance .. the operational stability, reliability, security, global interoperability, resilience, and openness of ... the Internet".
On 2017-09-04 16:29, Erika Mann wrote:
Dear All -
herewith I'm forwarding Steve's reply to our letter.
We will have a first exchange on Thursday this week, during our CCWG AP call. I send Steve already a quick reply, saying that we will discuss the Board letter then for the first time.
Best, Erika
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: STEVE CROCKER < steve.crocker@board.icann.org> Date: Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 3:19 PM Subject: Board reply to CCWG-AP To: Erika Mann <erika@erikamann.com>, Ching Chiao <chiao@brandma.co>, Marika Konings <marika.konings@icann.org > Cc: Steve Crocker < steve.crocker@board.icann.org>, Marika Konings < marika.konings@icann.org>, Icann-board ICANN <icann-board@icann.org
, Avri Doria <avri@apc.org>, "Sarah B. Deutsch" < sarahbdeutsch@gmail.com>, Board Operations < Board-Ops-Team@icann.org>, Sally Costerton < sally.costerton@icann.org>, Samantha Eisner < Samantha.Eisner@icann.org>, Lauren Allison <lauren.allison@icann.org
Dear Erika and Ching,
Thank you for your letter received on May 22, 2017 on behalf of the Cross Community Working Group on New gTLD Auction Proceeds (CCWG-AP) in response to the Board email of March 2nd 2017.
On behalf of the Board, I am delighted to see that we are aligned in our thinking regarding the points discussed in the original email. Specifically, in response to your letter, please find attached a letter including additional acknowledgements and requested clarifications.
Thank you again for your efforts leading this work.
Steve _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds [1]
_______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds [1] _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds [1]
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I agree with Alan. And we must take into account the IRS in its Article 501 (c) (3) so that ICANN does not lose its status of non-profit organization. Regards Alberto -----Mensaje original----- De: ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org] En nombre de Daniel Dardailler Enviado el: Tuesday, September 5, 2017 6:53 AM Para: Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> CC: ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org Asunto: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP +1 on all Alan wrote. I personally don't think we need to embark on a mission change crusade, which I agree would take years, but that we need to convince the ICANN community (and the board) that the funds being a one time shot and having been promised to be used for the good of the Internet and not for ICANN, we want to extend the scope of its granting to more than the mission proper and consider things that are in line with the first commitment of ICANN in the bylaws, to support Open Internet development. Since ICANN clearly depends on the Open Internet (e.g. tcp/http/html) to succeed, I don't see why the community would think doing this one-time exception would endanger ICANN's mission over the long term. On 2017-09-05 02:50, Alan Greenberg wrote:
I do not think that anyone is proposing that we do ANYTHING that will endanger ICANN, and we all need to be diligent on that.
However, it is far from clear that we do that by taking on projects that ICANN itself could not within its mission. If all that we can do is CLEARLY within its mission, then we may as well just put the money into ICANN's operational budget and save ourselves a lot of work in this CCWG, and a lot of cost administering projects that we could just allow ICANN itself to oversee.
There is a difference between being prudent and being wise.
Alan
At 04/09/2017 05:04 PM, Anthony Harris wrote:
I agree with this statement from James. Too much can be risked if this runs off the tracks.
Tony Harris
On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 4:05 PM, James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net
wrote:
I agree to a point Erica.
And allow me to be slightly less diplomatic for a moment,
I think what the crux of the issue is is that many people have seen the potential impact of the 250m in the fund and have amazing ideas on the impact that that may have. However what we have lost sight of is the fact that that fund pales in comparison to the value that ICANN derives from being secure and stable. In my own personal opinion any steps by any groups to make, allow or encourage ICANN to act outside of its very carefully crafted mission must be pushed back on by the community.
We have just exited a very stressful and impactful 3 years where we battled to wrest control of ICANN to the community, and one of the greatest battles we fought was to enshrine a limited mission into ICANNs bylaws to apply to everything and anything ICANN does. To many across ICANN was one of the hardest fought battles we had. And we cannot as the ICANN community immediately put that back at risk (And yes I do feel that disbursing the auction funds outside of the mission would do that) and threaten to turn back on 3 years of work for the potential impact of 250m USD. The value we gain from not doing that and having a stable coordinator of the DNS is much much greater than any impact the auction funds could have.
If in fact we are going to reopen the mission discussion we should seriously look at putting the auction fund in a high interest bearing account for 10 years and come back to this topic when the community is ready for another discussion about ICANNs mission and where the funds can be disbursed to.
From: Erika Mann [ mailto:erika@erikamann.com] Sent: 04 September 2017 19:20 To: Daniel Dardailler <danield@w3.org> Cc: Jon Nevett <jon@donuts.email>; James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net >; ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP
Dear Daniel, James, Jon, Olawale, All -
personally I believe we open a can of worms if we're going to bring is to the full CCWG to find a solution. We will only postpone the decision and will postpone therefore the implementation phase of the fund.
I rather hope that we can find a diplomatic solution, a solution that will satisfy the 'mission statement' concept but will on the other hand bring sufficient flexibility to the table to allow project evaluators in the future to utilize maximum flexibilities.
The 'open Internet' concept, if it's turned into a introductory paragraph, will help evaluators to understand the broader framing of the mission statement within a defined Open Internet concept.
BTW I do not agree that the current ICANN budget allows to support truly important projects, for example in the security and software area. And, so much more could be done in certain training areas, for example DNS software engineering, in particular if one would like to see greater participation in/from developing countries.
Thank you for your comments!
Kind regards,
Erika
On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Daniel Dardailler <danield@w3.org> wrote:
On 2017-09-04 19:08, Jon Nevett wrote:
I agree with James here and don't think that the Board's position is a paradox. The ICANN org already is doing what it thinks it can do to support the ICANN mission based on its current financial position.
Is the current financial position of ICANN really an impediment to what ICANN wants to do in support of its mission ? I was under the impression that ICANN's budget was healthy enough to implement its mission optimally today, with also a large untouched pot coming from the new gTLD application process (unused legal costs if I understand correctly).
That doesn't mean that the ICANN community couldn't do more to support the mission with use of the auction proceeds.
How is it different to give away the funds to the ICANN community (for projects aligned with the ICANN mission) vs. to give them back to the board directly, given that the board is driven by the community ?
Moreover, will the board/ICANN community accept to delegate some of their responsibility to implement the ICANN mission to some external grantees ? Not without a clear control process IMO, which means ICANN will certainly have to manage the granting process itself (adding an intermediary foundation would raise too high the risks of funding doing bad things for ICANN/its mission).
Best, Jon
On Sep 4, 2017, at 12:38 PM, James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net
wrote:
Yes agreed that this is the most crucial part of the response! But I think what the board is saying (And indeed what I have mentioned a few times) is that the funds are restricted by the ICANN mission and core values, and thus to look at disbursements outside of that, the mission and core values must be changed, which being very honest is not something that will happen in the short or medium term future and certainly not within the lifetime of this CCWG.
-James
-----Original Message----- From: ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org [ mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Dardailler Sent: 04 September 2017 17:23 To: Erika Mann <erika@erikamann.com> Cc: ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP
Thanks Erika.
To me, the important bit is this one: ".. If the CCWG is dissatisfied with the restrictions that the enumerated mission statement places on the outcomes of the CCWG’s work, that is a fundamental question for the ICANN community to resolve, as the ICANN Board is holding the organization to the mission that the ICANN community developed through the Enhancing ICANN Accountability process"
I think our current discussions on Open Internet description shows a consensus in our group wrt to the mission enumerated statement being too limited (i.e. only DNS, IP, protocols) for the scope we foresee.
If we can get consensus on this point, then we can start making a case in front of the ICANN community that the auction funds are special for various reasons:
- they are supposed to be used outside of the ICANN regular operational budget, but are legally restricted to be spent only on these operational items (mission listing). That's a paradox in itself. - they are supposed to be used for the good of the Internet (which we are turning into "in support of the Open Internet"), which is a concept not limited to the ICANN mission - they are a one time event and extending the scope of their granting beyond the ICANN limited mission will not endanger the ICANN mission and role itself. - ICANN doesn't live in a vacuum and there is value to ICANN (and its mission) to do a scope extension for these funds - ICANN's first commitment, in the By-Laws: "Preserve and enhance the administration of the DNS and the operational stability, reliability, security, global interoperability, resilience, and openness of the DNS and the Internet" covers our vision of scope extension pretty well since it can be read as "Preserve and enhance .. the operational stability, reliability, security, global interoperability, resilience, and openness of ... the Internet".
On 2017-09-04 16:29, Erika Mann wrote:
Dear All -
herewith I'm forwarding Steve's reply to our letter.
We will have a first exchange on Thursday this week, during our CCWG AP call. I send Steve already a quick reply, saying that we will discuss the Board letter then for the first time.
Best, Erika
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: STEVE CROCKER < steve.crocker@board.icann.org> Date: Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 3:19 PM Subject: Board reply to CCWG-AP To: Erika Mann <erika@erikamann.com>, Ching Chiao <chiao@brandma.co>, Marika Konings <marika.konings@icann.org > Cc: Steve Crocker < steve.crocker@board.icann.org>, Marika Konings < marika.konings@icann.org>, Icann-board ICANN <icann-board@icann.org
, Avri Doria <avri@apc.org>, "Sarah B. Deutsch" < sarahbdeutsch@gmail.com>, Board Operations < Board-Ops-Team@icann.org>, Sally Costerton < sally.costerton@icann.org>, Samantha Eisner < Samantha.Eisner@icann.org>, Lauren Allison <lauren.allison@icann.org
Dear Erika and Ching,
Thank you for your letter received on May 22, 2017 on behalf of the Cross Community Working Group on New gTLD Auction Proceeds (CCWG-AP) in response to the Board email of March 2nd 2017.
On behalf of the Board, I am delighted to see that we are aligned in our thinking regarding the points discussed in the original email. Specifically, in response to your letter, please find attached a letter including additional acknowledgements and requested clarifications.
Thank you again for your efforts leading this work.
Steve _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds [1]
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Hello Daniel Kindly find inline: On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Daniel Dardailler <danield@w3.org> wrote:
+1 on all Alan wrote.
I personally don't think we need to embark on a mission change crusade, which I agree would take years, but that we need to convince the ICANN community (and the board) that the funds being a one time shot and having been promised to be used for the good of the Internet and not for ICANN, we want to extend the scope of its granting to more than the mission proper and consider things that are in line with the first commitment of ICANN in the bylaws, to support Open Internet development. Since ICANN clearly depends on the Open Internet (e.g. tcp/http/html) to succeed, I don't see why the community would think doing this one-time exception would endanger ICANN's mission over the long term.
SO: I am really not sure why you think ICANN support of Open Internet is out of her scope in the first place? Section IV of her mission does make that within scope. So i don't think ICANN will be out of scope if they support such effort. I will like to hear why you(or any of our colleagues) think it will be out of scope for them. Regards
On 2017-09-05 02:50, Alan Greenberg wrote:
I do not think that anyone is proposing that we do ANYTHING that will endanger ICANN, and we all need to be diligent on that.
However, it is far from clear that we do that by taking on projects that ICANN itself could not within its mission. If all that we can do is CLEARLY within its mission, then we may as well just put the money into ICANN's operational budget and save ourselves a lot of work in this CCWG, and a lot of cost administering projects that we could just allow ICANN itself to oversee.
There is a difference between being prudent and being wise.
Alan
At 04/09/2017 05:04 PM, Anthony Harris wrote:
I agree with this statement from James. Too much can be risked
if this runs off the tracks.
Tony Harris
On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 4:05 PM, James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net > wrote:
I agree to a point Erica.
And allow me to be slightly less diplomatic for a moment,
I think what the crux of the issue is is that many people have seen the potential impact of the 250m in the fund and have amazing ideas on the impact that that may have. However what we have lost sight of is the fact that that fund pales in comparison to the value that ICANN derives from being secure and stable. In my own personal opinion any steps by any groups to make, allow or encourage ICANN to act outside of its very carefully crafted mission must be pushed back on by the community.
We have just exited a very stressful and impactful 3 years where we battled to wrest control of ICANN to the community, and one of the greatest battles we fought was to enshrine a limited mission into ICANNs bylaws to apply to everything and anything ICANN does. To many across ICANN was one of the hardest fought battles we had. And we cannot as the ICANN community immediately put that back at risk (And yes I do feel that disbursing the auction funds outside of the mission would do that) and threaten to turn back on 3 years of work for the potential impact of 250m USD. The value we gain from not doing that and having a stable coordinator of the DNS is much much greater than any impact the auction funds could have.
If in fact we are going to reopen the mission discussion we should seriously look at putting the auction fund in a high interest bearing account for 10 years and come back to this topic when the community is ready for another discussion about ICANNs mission and where the funds can be disbursed to.
From: Erika Mann [ mailto:erika@erikamann.com] Sent: 04 September 2017 19:20 To: Daniel Dardailler <danield@w3.org> Cc: Jon Nevett <jon@donuts.email>; James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net >; ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP
Dear Daniel, James, Jon, Olawale, All -
personally I believe we open a can of worms if we're going to bring is to the full CCWG to find a solution. We will only postpone the decision and will postpone therefore the implementation phase of the fund.
I rather hope that we can find a diplomatic solution, a solution that will satisfy the 'mission statement' concept but will on the other hand bring sufficient flexibility to the table to allow project evaluators in the future to utilize maximum flexibilities.
The 'open Internet' concept, if it's turned into a introductory paragraph, will help evaluators to understand the broader framing of the mission statement within a defined Open Internet concept.
BTW I do not agree that the current ICANN budget allows to support truly important projects, for example in the security and software area. And, so much more could be done in certain training areas, for example DNS software engineering, in particular if one would like to see greater participation in/from developing countries.
Thank you for your comments!
Kind regards,
Erika
On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Daniel Dardailler <danield@w3.org> wrote:
On 2017-09-04 19:08, Jon Nevett wrote:
I agree with James here and don't think that the Board's position is a paradox. The ICANN org already is doing what it thinks it can do to support the ICANN mission based on its current financial position.
Is the current financial position of ICANN really an impediment to what ICANN wants to do in support of its mission ? I was under the impression that ICANN's budget was healthy enough to implement its mission optimally today, with also a large untouched pot coming from the new gTLD application process (unused legal costs if I understand correctly).
That doesn't mean that the ICANN community couldn't do more to support the mission with use of the auction proceeds.
How is it different to give away the funds to the ICANN community (for projects aligned with the ICANN mission) vs. to give them back to the board directly, given that the board is driven by the community ?
Moreover, will the board/ICANN community accept to delegate some of their responsibility to implement the ICANN mission to some external grantees ? Not without a clear control process IMO, which means ICANN will certainly have to manage the granting process itself (adding an intermediary foundation would raise too high the risks of funding doing bad things for ICANN/its mission).
Best, Jon
On Sep 4, 2017, at 12:38 PM, James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net
wrote:
Yes agreed that this is the most crucial part of the response! But I think what the board is saying (And indeed what I have mentioned a few times) is that the funds are restricted by the ICANN mission and core values, and thus to look at disbursements outside of that, the mission and core values must be changed, which being very honest is not something that will happen in the short or medium term future and certainly not within the lifetime of this CCWG.
-James
-----Original Message----- From: ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org [ mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Dardailler Sent: 04 September 2017 17:23 To: Erika Mann <erika@erikamann.com> Cc: ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP
Thanks Erika.
To me, the important bit is this one: ".. If the CCWG is dissatisfied with the restrictions that the enumerated mission statement places on the outcomes of the CCWG’s work, that is a fundamental question for the ICANN community to resolve, as the ICANN Board is holding the organization to the mission that the ICANN community developed through the Enhancing ICANN Accountability process"
I think our current discussions on Open Internet description shows a consensus in our group wrt to the mission enumerated statement being too limited (i.e. only DNS, IP, protocols) for the scope we foresee.
If we can get consensus on this point, then we can start making a case in front of the ICANN community that the auction funds are special for various reasons:
- they are supposed to be used outside of the ICANN regular operational budget, but are legally restricted to be spent only on these operational items (mission listing). That's a paradox in itself. - they are supposed to be used for the good of the Internet (which we are turning into "in support of the Open Internet"), which is a concept not limited to the ICANN mission - they are a one time event and extending the scope of their granting beyond the ICANN limited mission will not endanger the ICANN mission and role itself. - ICANN doesn't live in a vacuum and there is value to ICANN (and its mission) to do a scope extension for these funds - ICANN's first commitment, in the By-Laws: "Preserve and enhance the administration of the DNS and the operational stability, reliability, security, global interoperability, resilience, and openness of the DNS and the Internet" covers our vision of scope extension pretty well since it can be read as "Preserve and enhance .. the operational stability, reliability, security, global interoperability, resilience, and openness of ... the Internet".
On 2017-09-04 16:29, Erika Mann wrote:
Dear All -
herewith I'm forwarding Steve's reply to our letter.
We will have a first exchange on Thursday this week, during our CCWG AP call. I send Steve already a quick reply, saying that we will discuss the Board letter then for the first time.
Best, Erika
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: STEVE CROCKER < steve.crocker@board.icann.org> Date: Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 3:19 PM Subject: Board reply to CCWG-AP To: Erika Mann <erika@erikamann.com>, Ching Chiao <chiao@brandma.co>, Marika Konings <marika.konings@icann.org > Cc: Steve Crocker < steve.crocker@board.icann.org>, Marika Konings < marika.konings@icann.org>, Icann-board ICANN <icann-board@icann.org >, Avri Doria <avri@apc.org>, "Sarah B. Deutsch" < sarahbdeutsch@gmail.com>, Board Operations < Board-Ops-Team@icann.org>, Sally Costerton < sally.costerton@icann.org>, Samantha Eisner < Samantha.Eisner@icann.org>, Lauren Allison <lauren.allison@icann.org >
Dear Erika and Ching,
Thank you for your letter received on May 22, 2017 on behalf of the Cross Community Working Group on New gTLD Auction Proceeds (CCWG-AP) in response to the Board email of March 2nd 2017.
On behalf of the Board, I am delighted to see that we are aligned in our thinking regarding the points discussed in the original email. Specifically, in response to your letter, please find attached a letter including additional acknowledgements and requested clarifications.
Thank you again for your efforts leading this work.
Steve _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds [1]
_______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds [1] _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds [1]
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-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Seun Ojedeji,Federal University Oye-Ekitiweb: http://www.fuoye.edu.ng <http://www.fuoye.edu.ng> Mobile: +2348035233535**alt email: <http://goog_1872880453>seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng <seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng>* Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action!
On 2017-09-05 16:37, Seun Ojedeji wrote:
Hello Daniel
Kindly find inline:
On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Daniel Dardailler <danield@w3.org> wrote:
+1 on all Alan wrote.
I personally don't think we need to embark on a mission change crusade, which I agree would take years, but that we need to convince the ICANN community (and the board) that the funds being a one time shot and having been promised to be used for the good of the Internet and not for ICANN, we want to extend the scope of its granting to more than the mission proper and consider things that are in line with the first commitment of ICANN in the bylaws, to support Open Internet development. Since ICANN clearly depends on the Open Internet (e.g. tcp/http/html) to succeed, I don't see why the community would think doing this one-time exception would endanger ICANN's mission over the long term.
SO: I am really not sure why you think ICANN support of Open Internet is out of her scope in the first place? Section IV of her mission does make that within scope. So i don't think ICANN will be out of scope if they support such effort. I will like to hear why you(or any of our colleagues) think it will be out of scope for them.
The way I read Section iv is that it's focused on the IANA protocol/names registration. There is nothing in there that would allow e.g. the development of new protocols (and names) by the SDO.
Regards
On 2017-09-05 02:50, Alan Greenberg wrote:
I do not think that anyone is proposing that we do ANYTHING that will endanger ICANN, and we all need to be diligent on that.
However, it is far from clear that we do that by taking on projects that ICANN itself could not within its mission. If all that we can do is CLEARLY within its mission, then we may as well just put the money into ICANN's operational budget and save ourselves a lot of work in this CCWG, and a lot of cost administering projects that we could just allow ICANN itself to oversee.
There is a difference between being prudent and being wise.
Alan
At 04/09/2017 05:04 PM, Anthony Harris wrote:
I agree with this statement from James. Too much can be risked if this runs off the tracks.
Tony Harris
On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 4:05 PM, James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net > wrote:
I agree to a point Erica.
And allow me to be slightly less diplomatic for a moment,
I think what the crux of the issue is is that many people have seen the potential impact of the 250m in the fund and have amazing ideas on the impact that that may have. However what we have lost sight of is the fact that that fund pales in comparison to the value that ICANN derives from being secure and stable. In my own personal opinion any steps by any groups to make, allow or encourage ICANN to act outside of its very carefully crafted mission must be pushed back on by the community.
We have just exited a very stressful and impactful 3 years where we battled to wrest control of ICANN to the community, and one of the greatest battles we fought was to enshrine a limited mission into ICANNs bylaws to apply to everything and anything ICANN does. To many across ICANN was one of the hardest fought battles we had. And we cannot as the ICANN community immediately put that back at risk (And yes I do feel that disbursing the auction funds outside of the mission would do that) and threaten to turn back on 3 years of work for the potential impact of 250m USD. The value we gain from not doing that and having a stable coordinator of the DNS is much much greater than any impact the auction funds could have.
If in fact we are going to reopen the mission discussion we should seriously look at putting the auction fund in a high interest bearing account for 10 years and come back to this topic when the community is ready for another discussion about ICANNs mission and where the funds can be disbursed to.
From: Erika Mann [ mailto:erika@erikamann.com] Sent: 04 September 2017 19:20 To: Daniel Dardailler <danield@w3.org> Cc: Jon Nevett <jon@donuts.email>; James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net >; ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP
Dear Daniel, James, Jon, Olawale, All -
personally I believe we open a can of worms if we're going to bring is to the full CCWG to find a solution. We will only postpone the decision and will postpone therefore the implementation phase of the fund.
I rather hope that we can find a diplomatic solution, a solution that will satisfy the 'mission statement' concept but will on the other hand bring sufficient flexibility to the table to allow project evaluators in the future to utilize maximum flexibilities.
The 'open Internet' concept, if it's turned into a introductory paragraph, will help evaluators to understand the broader framing of the mission statement within a defined Open Internet concept.
BTW I do not agree that the current ICANN budget allows to support truly important projects, for example in the security and software area. And, so much more could be done in certain training areas, for example DNS software engineering, in particular if one would like to see greater participation in/from developing countries.
Thank you for your comments!
Kind regards,
Erika
On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Daniel Dardailler <danield@w3.org> wrote:
On 2017-09-04 19:08, Jon Nevett wrote:
I agree with James here and don't think that the Board's position is a paradox. The ICANN org already is doing what it thinks it can do to support the ICANN mission based on its current financial position.
Is the current financial position of ICANN really an impediment to what ICANN wants to do in support of its mission ? I was under the impression that ICANN's budget was healthy enough to implement its mission optimally today, with also a large untouched pot coming from the new gTLD application process (unused legal costs if I understand correctly).
That doesn't mean that the ICANN community couldn't do more to support the mission with use of the auction proceeds.
How is it different to give away the funds to the ICANN community (for projects aligned with the ICANN mission) vs. to give them back to the board directly, given that the board is driven by the community ?
Moreover, will the board/ICANN community accept to delegate some of their responsibility to implement the ICANN mission to some external grantees ? Not without a clear control process IMO, which means ICANN will certainly have to manage the granting process itself (adding an intermediary foundation would raise too high the risks of funding doing bad things for ICANN/its mission).
Best, Jon
On Sep 4, 2017, at 12:38 PM, James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net wrote:
Yes agreed that this is the most crucial part of the response! But I think what the board is saying (And indeed what I have mentioned a few times) is that the funds are restricted by the ICANN mission and core values, and thus to look at disbursements outside of that, the mission and core values must be changed, which being very honest is not something that will happen in the short or medium term future and certainly not within the lifetime of this CCWG.
-James
-----Original Message----- From: ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org [ mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Dardailler Sent: 04 September 2017 17:23 To: Erika Mann <erika@erikamann.com> Cc: ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP
Thanks Erika.
To me, the important bit is this one: ".. If the CCWG is dissatisfied with the restrictions that the enumerated mission statement places on the outcomes of the CCWG’s work, that is a fundamental question for the ICANN community to resolve, as the ICANN Board is holding the organization to the mission that the ICANN community developed through the Enhancing ICANN Accountability process"
I think our current discussions on Open Internet description shows a consensus in our group wrt to the mission enumerated statement being too limited (i.e. only DNS, IP, protocols) for the scope we foresee.
If we can get consensus on this point, then we can start making a case in front of the ICANN community that the auction funds are special for various reasons:
- they are supposed to be used outside of the ICANN regular operational budget, but are legally restricted to be spent only on these operational items (mission listing). That's a paradox in itself. - they are supposed to be used for the good of the Internet (which we are turning into "in support of the Open Internet"), which is a concept not limited to the ICANN mission - they are a one time event and extending the scope of their granting beyond the ICANN limited mission will not endanger the ICANN mission and role itself. - ICANN doesn't live in a vacuum and there is value to ICANN (and its mission) to do a scope extension for these funds - ICANN's first commitment, in the By-Laws: "Preserve and enhance the administration of the DNS and the operational stability, reliability, security, global interoperability, resilience, and openness of the DNS and the Internet" covers our vision of scope extension pretty well since it can be read as "Preserve and enhance .. the operational stability, reliability, security, global interoperability, resilience, and openness of ... the Internet".
On 2017-09-04 16:29, Erika Mann wrote:
Dear All -
herewith I'm forwarding Steve's reply to our letter.
We will have a first exchange on Thursday this week, during our CCWG AP call. I send Steve already a quick reply, saying that we will discuss the Board letter then for the first time.
Best, Erika
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: STEVE CROCKER < steve.crocker@board.icann.org> Date: Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 3:19 PM Subject: Board reply to CCWG-AP To: Erika Mann <erika@erikamann.com>, Ching Chiao <chiao@brandma.co>, Marika Konings <marika.konings@icann.org > Cc: Steve Crocker < steve.crocker@board.icann.org>, Marika Konings < marika.konings@icann.org>, Icann-board ICANN <icann-board@icann.org >, Avri Doria <avri@apc.org>, "Sarah B. Deutsch" < sarahbdeutsch@gmail.com>, Board Operations < Board-Ops-Team@icann.org>, Sally Costerton < sally.costerton@icann.org>, Samantha Eisner < Samantha.Eisner@icann.org>, Lauren Allison <lauren.allison@icann.org >
Dear Erika and Ching,
Thank you for your letter received on May 22, 2017 on behalf of the Cross Community Working Group on New gTLD Auction Proceeds (CCWG-AP) in response to the Board email of March 2nd 2017.
On behalf of the Board, I am delighted to see that we are aligned in our thinking regarding the points discussed in the original email. Specifically, in response to your letter, please find attached a letter including additional acknowledgements and requested clarifications.
Thank you again for your efforts leading this work.
Steve _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds [1] [1]
_______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds [1] [1] _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds [1] [1]
_______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds [1] [1]
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seun Ojedeji, Federal University Oye-Ekiti web: http://www.fuoye.edu.ng Mobile: +2348035233535 _alt email: [2]seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng_
Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action!
Links: ------ [1] https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds [2] http://goog_1872880453
After reading most if the comments here, i came back to Alan's point to add +100. ----------------- Arsène Tungali, about.me/ArseneTungali +243 993810967 GPG: 523644A0 Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo Sent from my iPhone (excuse typos)
On Sep 5, 2017, at 2:50 AM, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> wrote:
I do not think that anyone is proposing that we do ANYTHING that will endanger ICANN, and we all need to be diligent on that.
However, it is far from clear that we do that by taking on projects that ICANN itself could not within its mission. If all that we can do is CLEARLY within its mission, then we may as well just put the money into ICANN's operational budget and save ourselves a lot of work in this CCWG, and a lot of cost administering projects that we could just allow ICANN itself to oversee.
There is a difference between being prudent and being wise.
Alan
At 04/09/2017 05:04 PM, Anthony Harris wrote:
I agree with this statement from James. Too much can be risked if this runs off the tracks.
Tony Harris
On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 4:05 PM, James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net > wrote:
I agree to a point Erica.
And allow me to be slightly less diplomatic for a moment,
I think what the crux of the issue is is that many people have seen the potential impact of the 250m in the fund and have amazing ideas on the impact that that may have. However what we have lost sight of is the fact that that fund pales in comparison to the value that ICANN derives from being secure and stable. In my own personal opinion any steps by any groups to make, allow or encourage ICANN to act outside of its very carefully crafted mission must be pushed back on by the community.
We have just exited a very stressful and impactful 3 years where we battled to wrest control of ICANN to the community, and one of the greatest battles we fought was to enshrine a limited mission into ICANNs bylaws to apply to everything and anything ICANN does. To many across ICANN was one of the hardest fought battles we had. And we cannot as the ICANN community immediately put that back at risk (And yes I do feel that disbursing the auction funds outside of the mission would do that) and threaten to turn back on 3 years of work for the potential impact of 250m USD. The value we gain from not doing that and having a stable coordinator of the DNS is much much greater than any impact the auction funds could have.
If in fact we are going to reopen the mission discussion we should seriously look at putting the auction fund in a high interest bearing account for 10 years and come back to this topic when the community is ready for another discussion about ICANNs mission and where the funds can be disbursed to.
From: Erika Mann [ mailto:erika@erikamann.com] Sent: 04 September 2017 19:20 To: Daniel Dardailler <danield@w3.org> Cc: Jon Nevett <jon@donuts.email>; James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net >; ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP
Dear Daniel, James, Jon, Olawale, All -
personally I believe we open a can of worms if we're going to bring is to the full CCWG to find a solution. We will only postpone the decision and will postpone therefore the implementation phase of the fund.
I rather hope that we can find a diplomatic solution, a solution that will satisfy the 'mission statement' concept but will on the other hand bring sufficient flexibility to the table to allow project evaluators in the future to utilize maximum flexibilities.
The 'open Internet' concept, if it's turned into a introductory paragraph, will help evaluators to understand the broader framing of the mission statement within a defined Open Internet concept.
BTW I do not agree that the current ICANN budget allows to support truly important projects, for example in the security and software area. And, so much more could be done in certain training areas, for example DNS software engineering, in particular if one would like to see greater participation in/from developing countries.
Thank you for your comments!
Kind regards,
Erika
On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Daniel Dardailler <danield@w3.org> wrote:
On 2017-09-04 19:08, Jon Nevett wrote:
I agree with James here and don't think that the Board's position is a paradox. The ICANN org already is doing what it thinks it can do to support the ICANN mission based on its current financial position.
Is the current financial position of ICANN really an impediment to what ICANN wants to do in support of its mission ? I was under the impression that ICANN's budget was healthy enough to implement its mission optimally today, with also a large untouched pot coming from the new gTLD application process (unused legal costs if I understand correctly).
That doesn't mean that the ICANN community couldn't do more to support the mission with use of the auction proceeds.
How is it different to give away the funds to the ICANN community (for projects aligned with the ICANN mission) vs. to give them back to the board directly, given that the board is driven by the community ?
Moreover, will the board/ICANN community accept to delegate some of their responsibility to implement the ICANN mission to some external grantees ? Not without a clear control process IMO, which means ICANN will certainly have to manage the granting process itself (adding an intermediary foundation would raise too high the risks of funding doing bad things for ICANN/its mission).
Best, Jon
On Sep 4, 2017, at 12:38 PM, James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net > wrote:
Yes agreed that this is the most crucial part of the response! But I think what the board is saying (And indeed what I have mentioned a few times) is that the funds are restricted by the ICANN mission and core values, and thus to look at disbursements outside of that, the mission and core values must be changed, which being very honest is not something that will happen in the short or medium term future and certainly not within the lifetime of this CCWG.
-James
-----Original Message----- From: ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org [ mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Dardailler Sent: 04 September 2017 17:23 To: Erika Mann <erika@erikamann.com> Cc: ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP
Thanks Erika.
To me, the important bit is this one: ".. If the CCWG is dissatisfied with the restrictions that the enumerated mission statement places on the outcomes of the CCWG’s work, that is a fundamental question for the ICANN community to resolve, as the ICANN Board is holding the organization to the mission that the ICANN community developed through the Enhancing ICANN Accountability process"
I think our current discussions on Open Internet description shows a consensus in our group wrt to the mission enumerated statement being too limited (i.e. only DNS, IP, protocols) for the scope we foresee.
If we can get consensus on this point, then we can start making a case in front of the ICANN community that the auction funds are special for various reasons:
- they are supposed to be used outside of the ICANN regular operational budget, but are legally restricted to be spent only on these operational items (mission listing). That's a paradox in itself. - they are supposed to be used for the good of the Internet (which we are turning into "in support of the Open Internet"), which is a concept not limited to the ICANN mission - they are a one time event and extending the scope of their granting beyond the ICANN limited mission will not endanger the ICANN mission and role itself. - ICANN doesn't live in a vacuum and there is value to ICANN (and its mission) to do a scope extension for these funds - ICANN's first commitment, in the By-Laws: "Preserve and enhance the administration of the DNS and the operational stability, reliability, security, global interoperability, resilience, and openness of the DNS and the Internet" covers our vision of scope extension pretty well since it can be read as "Preserve and enhance .. the operational stability, reliability, security, global interoperability, resilience, and openness of ... the Internet".
On 2017-09-04 16:29, Erika Mann wrote:
Dear All -
herewith I'm forwarding Steve's reply to our letter.
We will have a first exchange on Thursday this week, during our CCWG AP call. I send Steve already a quick reply, saying that we will discuss the Board letter then for the first time.
Best, Erika
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: STEVE CROCKER < steve.crocker@board.icann.org> Date: Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 3:19 PM Subject: Board reply to CCWG-AP To: Erika Mann <erika@erikamann.com>, Ching Chiao <chiao@brandma.co>, Marika Konings <marika.konings@icann.org > Cc: Steve Crocker < steve.crocker@board.icann.org>, Marika Konings < marika.konings@icann.org>, Icann-board ICANN <icann-board@icann.org >, Avri Doria <avri@apc.org>, "Sarah B. Deutsch" < sarahbdeutsch@gmail.com>, Board Operations < Board-Ops-Team@icann.org>, Sally Costerton < sally.costerton@icann.org>, Samantha Eisner < Samantha.Eisner@icann.org>, Lauren Allison <lauren.allison@icann.org >
Dear Erika and Ching,
Thank you for your letter received on May 22, 2017 on behalf of the Cross Community Working Group on New gTLD Auction Proceeds (CCWG-AP) in response to the Board email of March 2nd 2017.
On behalf of the Board, I am delighted to see that we are aligned in our thinking regarding the points discussed in the original email. Specifically, in response to your letter, please find attached a letter including additional acknowledgements and requested clarifications.
Thank you again for your efforts leading this work.
Steve _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds
_______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds
_______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds
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Without intent to oppose this approach, I would mention that there *are* things that can merit funding while staying clearly within ICANN's mission: - Projects that alert Internet users (particularly in developing countries) of the availability of generic TLDs that can equip them with a *unique* online identity, not a "co-branded" identity such as FB or Instagram (for example) provide. This may be of particular interest to small and medium businesses or farms, and entrepreneurs. - Projects that can improve ease of registration of generic domain names in developing countries, (registration in their own language, payment in local currency, for example) in view of the scarcity of local ICANN accredited registrars in many of these nations. The possibility of including Internet infrastructure in the mix I rather liked (setting up Internet Exchange Points is one of my day jobs), this does have an effect on ICANN's critical resources, since every ISP, Telco, University or Content Provider must acquire an ASN (Autonomous System Number) as well as a block of IP numbers (these resources are provided through the RIRs). As Alan mentioned there is need for these IXPs in poorer countries, since setting up an IXP involves investment in housing, network equipment and last mile interconnections. The upside to having an IXP is that wholesale bandwidth charges are reduced, and major CDNs (Content Delivery Networks) such as Google, Netflix and Akamai, are usually supportive of providing local content caches for the IXP, thus improving the Internet experience of all end users served by that IXP. Tony Harris - On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Arsène Tungali <arsenebaguma@gmail.com> wrote:
After reading most if the comments here, i came back to Alan's point to add +100.
----------------- Arsène Tungali, about.me/ArseneTungali +243 993810967 GPG: 523644A0 Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo
Sent from my iPhone (excuse typos)
On Sep 5, 2017, at 2:50 AM, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca> wrote:
I do not think that anyone is proposing that we do ANYTHING that will endanger ICANN, and we all need to be diligent on that.
However, it is far from clear that we do that by taking on projects that ICANN itself could not within its mission. If all that we can do is CLEARLY within its mission, then we may as well just put the money into ICANN's operational budget and save ourselves a lot of work in this CCWG, and a lot of cost administering projects that we could just allow ICANN itself to oversee.
There is a difference between being prudent and being wise.
Alan
At 04/09/2017 05:04 PM, Anthony Harris wrote:
I agree with this statement from James. Too much can be risked if this runs off the tracks.
Tony Harris
On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 4:05 PM, James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net > wrote:
I agree to a point Erica.
And allow me to be slightly less diplomatic for a moment,
I think what the crux of the issue is is that many people have seen the potential impact of the 250m in the fund and have amazing ideas on the impact that that may have. However what we have lost sight of is the fact that that fund pales in comparison to the value that ICANN derives from being secure and stable. In my own personal opinion any steps by any groups to make, allow or encourage ICANN to act outside of its very carefully crafted mission must be pushed back on by the community.
We have just exited a very stressful and impactful 3 years where we battled to wrest control of ICANN to the community, and one of the greatest battles we fought was to enshrine a limited mission into ICANNs bylaws to apply to everything and anything ICANN does. To many across ICANN was one of the hardest fought battles we had. And we cannot as the ICANN community immediately put that back at risk (And yes I do feel that disbursing the auction funds outside of the mission would do that) and threaten to turn back on 3 years of work for the potential impact of 250m USD. The value we gain from not doing that and having a stable coordinator of the DNS is much much greater than any impact the auction funds could have.
If in fact we are going to reopen the mission discussion we should seriously look at putting the auction fund in a high interest bearing account for 10 years and come back to this topic when the community is ready for another discussion about ICANNs mission and where the funds can be disbursed to.
From: Erika Mann [ mailto:erika@erikamann.com <erika@erikamann.com>] Sent: 04 September 2017 19:20 To: Daniel Dardailler <danield@w3.org> Cc: Jon Nevett <jon@donuts.email>; James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net
; ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP
Dear Daniel, James, Jon, Olawale, All -
personally I believe we open a can of worms if we're going to bring is to the full CCWG to find a solution. We will only postpone the decision and will postpone therefore the implementation phase of the fund.
I rather hope that we can find a diplomatic solution, a solution that will satisfy the 'mission statement' concept but will on the other hand bring sufficient flexibility to the table to allow project evaluators in the future to utilize maximum flexibilities.
The 'open Internet' concept, if it's turned into a introductory paragraph, will help evaluators to understand the broader framing of the mission statement within a defined Open Internet concept.
BTW I do not agree that the current ICANN budget allows to support truly important projects, for example in the security and software area. And, so much more could be done in certain training areas, for example DNS software engineering, in particular if one would like to see greater participation in/from developing countries.
Thank you for your comments!
Kind regards,
Erika
On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Daniel Dardailler <danield@w3.org> wrote:
On 2017-09-04 19:08, Jon Nevett wrote:
I agree with James here and don't think that the Board's position is a paradox. The ICANN org already is doing what it thinks it can do to support the ICANN mission based on its current financial position.
Is the current financial position of ICANN really an impediment to what ICANN wants to do in support of its mission ? I was under the impression that ICANN's budget was healthy enough to implement its mission optimally today, with also a large untouched pot coming from the new gTLD application process (unused legal costs if I understand correctly).
That doesn't mean that the ICANN community couldn't do more to support the mission with use of the auction proceeds.
How is it different to give away the funds to the ICANN community (for projects aligned with the ICANN mission) vs. to give them back to the board directly, given that the board is driven by the community ?
Moreover, will the board/ICANN community accept to delegate some of their responsibility to implement the ICANN mission to some external grantees ? Not without a clear control process IMO, which means ICANN will certainly have to manage the granting process itself (adding an intermediary foundation would raise too high the risks of funding doing bad things for ICANN/its mission).
Best, Jon
On Sep 4, 2017, at 12:38 PM, James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net > wrote:
Yes agreed that this is the most crucial part of the response! But I think what the board is saying (And indeed what I have mentioned a few times) is that the funds are restricted by the ICANN mission and core values, and thus to look at disbursements outside of that, the mission and core values must be changed, which being very honest is not something that will happen in the short or medium term future and certainly not within the lifetime of this CCWG.
-James
-----Original Message----- From: ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org [ mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org <ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Daniel Dardailler Sent: 04 September 2017 17:23 To: Erika Mann <erika@erikamann.com> Cc: ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP
Thanks Erika.
To me, the important bit is this one: ".. If the CCWG is dissatisfied with the restrictions that the enumerated mission statement places on the outcomes of the CCWG’s work, that is a fundamental question for the ICANN community to resolve, as the ICANN Board is holding the organization to the mission that the ICANN community developed through the Enhancing ICANN Accountability process"
I think our current discussions on Open Internet description shows a consensus in our group wrt to the mission enumerated statement being too limited (i.e. only DNS, IP, protocols) for the scope we foresee.
If we can get consensus on this point, then we can start making a case in front of the ICANN community that the auction funds are special for various reasons:
- they are supposed to be used outside of the ICANN regular operational budget, but are legally restricted to be spent only on these operational items (mission listing). That's a paradox in itself. - they are supposed to be used for the good of the Internet (which we are turning into "in support of the Open Internet"), which is a concept not limited to the ICANN mission - they are a one time event and extending the scope of their granting beyond the ICANN limited mission will not endanger the ICANN mission and role itself. - ICANN doesn't live in a vacuum and there is value to ICANN (and its mission) to do a scope extension for these funds - ICANN's first commitment, in the By-Laws: "Preserve and enhance the administration of the DNS and the operational stability, reliability, security, global interoperability, resilience, and openness of the DNS and the Internet" covers our vision of scope extension pretty well since it can be read as "Preserve and enhance .. the operational stability, reliability, security, global interoperability, resilience, and openness of ... the Internet".
On 2017-09-04 16:29, Erika Mann wrote:
Dear All -
herewith I'm forwarding Steve's reply to our letter.
We will have a first exchange on Thursday this week, during our CCWG AP call. I send Steve already a quick reply, saying that we will discuss the Board letter then for the first time.
Best, Erika
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: STEVE CROCKER < steve.crocker@board.icann.org> Date: Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 3:19 PM Subject: Board reply to CCWG-AP To: Erika Mann <erika@erikamann.com>, Ching Chiao <chiao@brandma.co>, Marika Konings <marika.konings@icann.org > Cc: Steve Crocker < steve.crocker@board.icann.org>, Marika Konings < marika.konings@icann.org>, Icann-board ICANN <icann-board@icann.org >, Avri Doria <avri@apc.org>, "Sarah B. Deutsch" < sarahbdeutsch@gmail.com>, Board Operations < Board-Ops-Team@icann.org>, Sally Costerton < sally.costerton@icann.org>, Samantha Eisner < Samantha.Eisner@icann.org>, Lauren Allison <lauren.allison@icann.org >
Dear Erika and Ching,
Thank you for your letter received on May 22, 2017 on behalf of the Cross Community Working Group on New gTLD Auction Proceeds (CCWG-AP) in response to the Board email of March 2nd 2017.
On behalf of the Board, I am delighted to see that we are aligned in our thinking regarding the points discussed in the original email. Specifically, in response to your letter, please find attached a letter including additional acknowledgements and requested clarifications.
Thank you again for your efforts leading this work.
Steve _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds
_______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds
_______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds
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Totally agree with you Tony. My position is stick with ICANN mission since there is an wider spectra inside our mission. Vanda Scartezini Polo Consultores Associados Av. Paulista 1159, cj 1004 01311-200- Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Land Line: +55 11 3266.6253 Mobile: + 55 11 98181.1464 Sorry for any typos. From: <ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Anthony Harris <anthonyrharris@gmail.com<mailto:anthonyrharris@gmail.com>> Date: Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 12:32 To: Arsène Tungali <arsenebaguma@gmail.com<mailto:arsenebaguma@gmail.com>> Cc: "ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org<mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org>" <ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org<mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP Without intent to oppose this approach, I would mention that there are things that can merit funding while staying clearly within ICANN's mission: - Projects that alert Internet users (particularly in developing countries) of the availability of generic TLDs that can equip them with a unique online identity, not a "co-branded" identity such as FB or Instagram (for example) provide. This may be of particular interest to small and medium businesses or farms, and entrepreneurs. - Projects that can improve ease of registration of generic domain names in developing countries, (registration in their own language, payment in local currency, for example) in view of the scarcity of local ICANN accredited registrars in many of these nations. The possibility of including Internet infrastructure in the mix I rather liked (setting up Internet Exchange Points is one of my day jobs), this does have an effect on ICANN's critical resources, since every ISP, Telco, University or Content Provider must acquire an ASN (Autonomous System Number) as well as a block of IP numbers (these resources are provided through the RIRs). As Alan mentioned there is need for these IXPs in poorer countries, since setting up an IXP involves investment in housing, network equipment and last mile interconnections. The upside to having an IXP is that wholesale bandwidth charges are reduced, and major CDNs (Content Delivery Networks) such as Google, Netflix and Akamai, are usually supportive of providing local content caches for the IXP, thus improving the Internet experience of all end users served by that IXP. Tony Harris - On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Arsène Tungali <arsenebaguma@gmail.com<mailto:arsenebaguma@gmail.com>> wrote: After reading most if the comments here, i came back to Alan's point to add +100. ----------------- Arsène Tungali, about.me/ArseneTungali<http://about.me/ArseneTungali> +243 993810967 GPG: 523644A0 Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo Sent from my iPhone (excuse typos) On Sep 5, 2017, at 2:50 AM, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca<mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca>> wrote: I do not think that anyone is proposing that we do ANYTHING that will endanger ICANN, and we all need to be diligent on that. However, it is far from clear that we do that by taking on projects that ICANN itself could not within its mission. If all that we can do is CLEARLY within its mission, then we may as well just put the money into ICANN's operational budget and save ourselves a lot of work in this CCWG, and a lot of cost administering projects that we could just allow ICANN itself to oversee. There is a difference between being prudent and being wise. Alan At 04/09/2017 05:04 PM, Anthony Harris wrote: I agree with this statement from James. Too much can be risked if this runs off the tracks. Tony Harris On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 4:05 PM, James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net<mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net> > wrote: I agree to a point Erica. And allow me to be slightly less diplomatic for a moment, I think what the crux of the issue is is that many people have seen the potential impact of the 250m in the fund and have amazing ideas on the impact that that may have. However what we have lost sight of is the fact that that fund pales in comparison to the value that ICANN derives from being secure and stable. In my own personal opinion any steps by any groups to make, allow or encourage ICANN to act outside of its very carefully crafted mission must be pushed back on by the community. We have just exited a very stressful and impactful 3 years where we battled to wrest control of ICANN to the community, and one of the greatest battles we fought was to enshrine a limited mission into ICANNs bylaws to apply to everything and anything ICANN does. To many across ICANN was one of the hardest fought battles we had. And we cannot as the ICANN community immediately put that back at risk (And yes I do feel that disbursing the auction funds outside of the mission would do that) and threaten to turn back on 3 years of work for the potential impact of 250m USD. The value we gain from not doing that and having a stable coordinator of the DNS is much much greater than any impact the auction funds could have. If in fact we are going to reopen the mission discussion we should seriously look at putting the auction fund in a high interest bearing account for 10 years and come back to this topic when the community is ready for another discussion about ICANNs mission and where the funds can be disbursed to. From: Erika Mann [ mailto:erika@erikamann.com] Sent: 04 September 2017 19:20 To: Daniel Dardailler <danield@w3.org<mailto:danield@w3.org>> Cc: Jon Nevett <jon@donuts.email<mailto:jon@donuts.email>>; James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net<mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net> >; ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org<mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP Dear Daniel, James, Jon, Olawale, All - personally I believe we open a can of worms if we're going to bring is to the full CCWG to find a solution. We will only postpone the decision and will postpone therefore the implementation phase of the fund. I rather hope that we can find a diplomatic solution, a solution that will satisfy the 'mission statement' concept but will on the other hand bring sufficient flexibility to the table to allow project evaluators in the future to utilize maximum flexibilities. The 'open Internet' concept, if it's turned into a introductory paragraph, will help evaluators to understand the broader framing of the mission statement within a defined Open Internet concept. BTW I do not agree that the current ICANN budget allows to support truly important projects, for example in the security and software area. And, so much more could be done in certain training areas, for example DNS software engineering, in particular if one would like to see greater participation in/from developing countries. Thank you for your comments! Kind regards, Erika On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Daniel Dardailler <danield@w3.org<mailto:danield@w3.org>> wrote: On 2017-09-04 19:08, Jon Nevett wrote: I agree with James here and don't think that the Board's position is a paradox. The ICANN org already is doing what it thinks it can do to support the ICANN mission based on its current financial position. Is the current financial position of ICANN really an impediment to what ICANN wants to do in support of its mission ? I was under the impression that ICANN's budget was healthy enough to implement its mission optimally today, with also a large untouched pot coming from the new gTLD application process (unused legal costs if I understand correctly). That doesn't mean that the ICANN community couldn't do more to support the mission with use of the auction proceeds. How is it different to give away the funds to the ICANN community (for projects aligned with the ICANN mission) vs. to give them back to the board directly, given that the board is driven by the community ? Moreover, will the board/ICANN community accept to delegate some of their responsibility to implement the ICANN mission to some external grantees ? Not without a clear control process IMO, which means ICANN will certainly have to manage the granting process itself (adding an intermediary foundation would raise too high the risks of funding doing bad things for ICANN/its mission). Best, Jon On Sep 4, 2017, at 12:38 PM, James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net<mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net> > wrote: Yes agreed that this is the most crucial part of the response! But I think what the board is saying (And indeed what I have mentioned a few times) is that the funds are restricted by the ICANN mission and core values, and thus to look at disbursements outside of that, the mission and core values must be changed, which being very honest is not something that will happen in the short or medium term future and certainly not within the lifetime of this CCWG. -James -----Original Message----- From: ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org> [ mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Dardailler Sent: 04 September 2017 17:23 To: Erika Mann <erika@erikamann.com<mailto:erika@erikamann.com>> Cc: ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org<mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP Thanks Erika. To me, the important bit is this one: ".. If the CCWG is dissatisfied with the restrictions that the enumerated mission statement places on the outcomes of the CCWG’s work, that is a fundamental question for the ICANN community to resolve, as the ICANN Board is holding the organization to the mission that the ICANN community developed through the Enhancing ICANN Accountability process" I think our current discussions on Open Internet description shows a consensus in our group wrt to the mission enumerated statement being too limited (i.e. only DNS, IP, protocols) for the scope we foresee. If we can get consensus on this point, then we can start making a case in front of the ICANN community that the auction funds are special for various reasons: - they are supposed to be used outside of the ICANN regular operational budget, but are legally restricted to be spent only on these operational items (mission listing). That's a paradox in itself. - they are supposed to be used for the good of the Internet (which we are turning into "in support of the Open Internet"), which is a concept not limited to the ICANN mission - they are a one time event and extending the scope of their granting beyond the ICANN limited mission will not endanger the ICANN mission and role itself. - ICANN doesn't live in a vacuum and there is value to ICANN (and its mission) to do a scope extension for these funds - ICANN's first commitment, in the By-Laws: "Preserve and enhance the administration of the DNS and the operational stability, reliability, security, global interoperability, resilience, and openness of the DNS and the Internet" covers our vision of scope extension pretty well since it can be read as "Preserve and enhance .. the operational stability, reliability, security, global interoperability, resilience, and openness of ... the Internet". On 2017-09-04 16:29, Erika Mann wrote: Dear All - herewith I'm forwarding Steve's reply to our letter. We will have a first exchange on Thursday this week, during our CCWG AP call. I send Steve already a quick reply, saying that we will discuss the Board letter then for the first time. Best, Erika ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: STEVE CROCKER < steve.crocker@board.icann.org<mailto:steve.crocker@board.icann.org>> Date: Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 3:19 PM Subject: Board reply to CCWG-AP To: Erika Mann <erika@erikamann.com<mailto:erika@erikamann.com>>, Ching Chiao <chiao@brandma.co<mailto:chiao@brandma.co>>, Marika Konings <marika.konings@icann.org<mailto:marika.konings@icann.org> > Cc: Steve Crocker < steve.crocker@board.icann.org<mailto:steve.crocker@board.icann.org>>, Marika Konings < marika.konings@icann.org<mailto:marika.konings@icann.org>>, Icann-board ICANN <icann-board@icann.org<mailto:icann-board@icann.org> >, Avri Doria <avri@apc.org<mailto:avri@apc.org>>, "Sarah B. Deutsch" < sarahbdeutsch@gmail.com<mailto:sarahbdeutsch@gmail.com>>, Board Operations < Board-Ops-Team@icann.org<mailto:Board-Ops-Team@icann.org>>, Sally Costerton < sally.costerton@icann.org<mailto:sally.costerton@icann.org>>, Samantha Eisner < Samantha.Eisner@icann.org<mailto:Samantha.Eisner@icann.org>>, Lauren Allison <lauren.allison@icann.org<mailto:lauren.allison@icann.org> > Dear Erika and Ching, Thank you for your letter received on May 22, 2017 on behalf of the Cross Community Working Group on New gTLD Auction Proceeds (CCWG-AP) in response to the Board email of March 2nd 2017. On behalf of the Board, I am delighted to see that we are aligned in our thinking regarding the points discussed in the original email. Specifically, in response to your letter, please find attached a letter including additional acknowledgements and requested clarifications. Thank you again for your efforts leading this work. Steve _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org<mailto:Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org<mailto:Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org<mailto:Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org<mailto:Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1;DM5PR03MB2714;27:vo3IVYPABTcT10thpajRvBKGdFYDlSZocomP7m1IVIhVcOR9GEJ3JGPVN9BxpGbVBsLFRn9TLMYstZIK9NMkR9vn4c9uiYuKGxWVUaC9RJ3AJDdwoRHP4eU+NLP7WK5p X-Microsoft-Antispam-Mailbox-Delivery: ex:0;auth:0;dest:I;ENG:(400001000128)(400125000095)(20160514016)(750103)(520002050)(400001001223)(400125100095)(61617095)(400001002128)(400125200095); _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org<mailto:Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org<mailto:Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds
Excellent examples. ———— ** ISIF Asia call for grants proposals and award nominations has been extended until 15 September (midnight UTC) www.isif.asia<http://www.isif.asia/> - Get started and submit your application! ** Sylvia Cadena | sylvia@apnic.net<mailto:sylvia@apnic.net> | APNIC Foundation - Head of Programs | +10 GMT Brisbane, Australia | http://www.apnic.foundation<http://www.apnic.foundation/> From: <ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Anthony Harris <anthonyrharris@gmail.com> Date: Thursday, 7 September 2017 at 1:32 am To: "arsenebaguma@gmail.com" <arsenebaguma@gmail.com> Cc: "ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org" <ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP Without intent to oppose this approach, I would mention that there are things that can merit funding while staying clearly within ICANN's mission: - Projects that alert Internet users (particularly in developing countries) of the availability of generic TLDs that can equip them with a unique online identity, not a "co-branded" identity such as FB or Instagram (for example) provide. This may be of particular interest to small and medium businesses or farms, and entrepreneurs. - Projects that can improve ease of registration of generic domain names in developing countries, (registration in their own language, payment in local currency, for example) in view of the scarcity of local ICANN accredited registrars in many of these nations. The possibility of including Internet infrastructure in the mix I rather liked (setting up Internet Exchange Points is one of my day jobs), this does have an effect on ICANN's critical resources, since every ISP, Telco, University or Content Provider must acquire an ASN (Autonomous System Number) as well as a block of IP numbers (these resources are provided through the RIRs). As Alan mentioned there is need for these IXPs in poorer countries, since setting up an IXP involves investment in housing, network equipment and last mile interconnections. The upside to having an IXP is that wholesale bandwidth charges are reduced, and major CDNs (Content Delivery Networks) such as Google, Netflix and Akamai, are usually supportive of providing local content caches for the IXP, thus improving the Internet experience of all end users served by that IXP. Tony Harris - On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 10:59 AM, Arsène Tungali <arsenebaguma@gmail.com<mailto:arsenebaguma@gmail.com>> wrote: After reading most if the comments here, i came back to Alan's point to add +100. ----------------- Arsène Tungali, about.me/ArseneTungali<http://about.me/ArseneTungali> +243 993810967 GPG: 523644A0 Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo Sent from my iPhone (excuse typos) On Sep 5, 2017, at 2:50 AM, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca<mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca>> wrote: I do not think that anyone is proposing that we do ANYTHING that will endanger ICANN, and we all need to be diligent on that. However, it is far from clear that we do that by taking on projects that ICANN itself could not within its mission. If all that we can do is CLEARLY within its mission, then we may as well just put the money into ICANN's operational budget and save ourselves a lot of work in this CCWG, and a lot of cost administering projects that we could just allow ICANN itself to oversee. There is a difference between being prudent and being wise. Alan At 04/09/2017 05:04 PM, Anthony Harris wrote: I agree with this statement from James. Too much can be risked if this runs off the tracks. Tony Harris On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 4:05 PM, James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net<mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net> > wrote: I agree to a point Erica. And allow me to be slightly less diplomatic for a moment, I think what the crux of the issue is is that many people have seen the potential impact of the 250m in the fund and have amazing ideas on the impact that that may have. However what we have lost sight of is the fact that that fund pales in comparison to the value that ICANN derives from being secure and stable. In my own personal opinion any steps by any groups to make, allow or encourage ICANN to act outside of its very carefully crafted mission must be pushed back on by the community. We have just exited a very stressful and impactful 3 years where we battled to wrest control of ICANN to the community, and one of the greatest battles we fought was to enshrine a limited mission into ICANNs bylaws to apply to everything and anything ICANN does. To many across ICANN was one of the hardest fought battles we had. And we cannot as the ICANN community immediately put that back at risk (And yes I do feel that disbursing the auction funds outside of the mission would do that) and threaten to turn back on 3 years of work for the potential impact of 250m USD. The value we gain from not doing that and having a stable coordinator of the DNS is much much greater than any impact the auction funds could have. If in fact we are going to reopen the mission discussion we should seriously look at putting the auction fund in a high interest bearing account for 10 years and come back to this topic when the community is ready for another discussion about ICANNs mission and where the funds can be disbursed to. From: Erika Mann [ mailto:erika@erikamann.com] Sent: 04 September 2017 19:20 To: Daniel Dardailler <danield@w3.org<mailto:danield@w3.org>> Cc: Jon Nevett <jon@donuts.email<mailto:jon@donuts.email>>; James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net<mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net> >; ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org<mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP Dear Daniel, James, Jon, Olawale, All - personally I believe we open a can of worms if we're going to bring is to the full CCWG to find a solution. We will only postpone the decision and will postpone therefore the implementation phase of the fund. I rather hope that we can find a diplomatic solution, a solution that will satisfy the 'mission statement' concept but will on the other hand bring sufficient flexibility to the table to allow project evaluators in the future to utilize maximum flexibilities. The 'open Internet' concept, if it's turned into a introductory paragraph, will help evaluators to understand the broader framing of the mission statement within a defined Open Internet concept. BTW I do not agree that the current ICANN budget allows to support truly important projects, for example in the security and software area. And, so much more could be done in certain training areas, for example DNS software engineering, in particular if one would like to see greater participation in/from developing countries. Thank you for your comments! Kind regards, Erika On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Daniel Dardailler <danield@w3.org<mailto:danield@w3.org>> wrote: On 2017-09-04 19:08, Jon Nevett wrote: I agree with James here and don't think that the Board's position is a paradox. The ICANN org already is doing what it thinks it can do to support the ICANN mission based on its current financial position. Is the current financial position of ICANN really an impediment to what ICANN wants to do in support of its mission ? I was under the impression that ICANN's budget was healthy enough to implement its mission optimally today, with also a large untouched pot coming from the new gTLD application process (unused legal costs if I understand correctly). That doesn't mean that the ICANN community couldn't do more to support the mission with use of the auction proceeds. How is it different to give away the funds to the ICANN community (for projects aligned with the ICANN mission) vs. to give them back to the board directly, given that the board is driven by the community ? Moreover, will the board/ICANN community accept to delegate some of their responsibility to implement the ICANN mission to some external grantees ? Not without a clear control process IMO, which means ICANN will certainly have to manage the granting process itself (adding an intermediary foundation would raise too high the risks of funding doing bad things for ICANN/its mission). Best, Jon On Sep 4, 2017, at 12:38 PM, James Gannon <james@cyberinvasion.net<mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net> > wrote: Yes agreed that this is the most crucial part of the response! But I think what the board is saying (And indeed what I have mentioned a few times) is that the funds are restricted by the ICANN mission and core values, and thus to look at disbursements outside of that, the mission and core values must be changed, which being very honest is not something that will happen in the short or medium term future and certainly not within the lifetime of this CCWG. -James -----Original Message----- From: ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org<mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org> [ mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Dardailler Sent: 04 September 2017 17:23 To: Erika Mann <erika@erikamann.com<mailto:erika@erikamann.com>> Cc: ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org<mailto:ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Ccwg-auctionproceeds] Fwd: Board reply to CCWG-AP Thanks Erika. To me, the important bit is this one: ".. If the CCWG is dissatisfied with the restrictions that the enumerated mission statement places on the outcomes of the CCWG’s work, that is a fundamental question for the ICANN community to resolve, as the ICANN Board is holding the organization to the mission that the ICANN community developed through the Enhancing ICANN Accountability process" I think our current discussions on Open Internet description shows a consensus in our group wrt to the mission enumerated statement being too limited (i.e. only DNS, IP, protocols) for the scope we foresee. If we can get consensus on this point, then we can start making a case in front of the ICANN community that the auction funds are special for various reasons: - they are supposed to be used outside of the ICANN regular operational budget, but are legally restricted to be spent only on these operational items (mission listing). That's a paradox in itself. - they are supposed to be used for the good of the Internet (which we are turning into "in support of the Open Internet"), which is a concept not limited to the ICANN mission - they are a one time event and extending the scope of their granting beyond the ICANN limited mission will not endanger the ICANN mission and role itself. - ICANN doesn't live in a vacuum and there is value to ICANN (and its mission) to do a scope extension for these funds - ICANN's first commitment, in the By-Laws: "Preserve and enhance the administration of the DNS and the operational stability, reliability, security, global interoperability, resilience, and openness of the DNS and the Internet" covers our vision of scope extension pretty well since it can be read as "Preserve and enhance .. the operational stability, reliability, security, global interoperability, resilience, and openness of ... the Internet". On 2017-09-04 16:29, Erika Mann wrote: Dear All - herewith I'm forwarding Steve's reply to our letter. We will have a first exchange on Thursday this week, during our CCWG AP call. I send Steve already a quick reply, saying that we will discuss the Board letter then for the first time. Best, Erika ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: STEVE CROCKER < steve.crocker@board.icann.org<mailto:steve.crocker@board.icann.org>> Date: Sun, Sep 3, 2017 at 3:19 PM Subject: Board reply to CCWG-AP To: Erika Mann <erika@erikamann.com<mailto:erika@erikamann.com>>, Ching Chiao <chiao@brandma.co<mailto:chiao@brandma.co>>, Marika Konings <marika.konings@icann.org<mailto:marika.konings@icann.org> > Cc: Steve Crocker < steve.crocker@board.icann.org<mailto:steve.crocker@board.icann.org>>, Marika Konings < marika.konings@icann.org<mailto:marika.konings@icann.org>>, Icann-board ICANN <icann-board@icann.org<mailto:icann-board@icann.org> >, Avri Doria <avri@apc.org<mailto:avri@apc.org>>, "Sarah B. Deutsch" < sarahbdeutsch@gmail.com<mailto:sarahbdeutsch@gmail.com>>, Board Operations < Board-Ops-Team@icann.org<mailto:Board-Ops-Team@icann.org>>, Sally Costerton < sally.costerton@icann.org<mailto:sally.costerton@icann.org>>, Samantha Eisner < Samantha.Eisner@icann.org<mailto:Samantha.Eisner@icann.org>>, Lauren Allison <lauren.allison@icann.org<mailto:lauren.allison@icann.org> > Dear Erika and Ching, Thank you for your letter received on May 22, 2017 on behalf of the Cross Community Working Group on New gTLD Auction Proceeds (CCWG-AP) in response to the Board email of March 2nd 2017. On behalf of the Board, I am delighted to see that we are aligned in our thinking regarding the points discussed in the original email. Specifically, in response to your letter, please find attached a letter including additional acknowledgements and requested clarifications. Thank you again for your efforts leading this work. Steve _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org<mailto:Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org<mailto:Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org<mailto:Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org<mailto:Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1;DM5PR03MB2714;27:vo3IVYPABTcT10thpajRvBKGdFYDlSZocomP7m1IVIhVcOR9GEJ3JGPVN9BxpGbVBsLFRn9TLMYstZIK9NMkR9vn4c9uiYuKGxWVUaC9RJ3AJDdwoRHP4eU+NLP7WK5p X-Microsoft-Antispam-Mailbox-Delivery: ex:0;auth:0;dest:I;ENG:(400001000128)(400125000095)(20160514016)(750103)(520002050)(400001001223)(400125100095)(61617095)(400001002128)(400125200095); _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org<mailto:Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds _______________________________________________ Ccwg-auctionproceeds mailing list Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org<mailto:Ccwg-auctionproceeds@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ccwg-auctionproceeds
participants (9)
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Alan Greenberg -
Alberto Soto -
Anthony Harris -
Arsène Tungali -
Daniel Dardailler -
James Gannon -
Seun Ojedeji -
Sylvia Cadena -
Vanda Scartezini