The procedures can be changed but I think we should first understand why the GCOT made the recommendations as they were approved by the Council. Feel free to request more information in this regard. I am sure we could arrange a meeting with the GCOT chair, the OSC chair and Ken Bour who assisted them. Chuck
-----Original Message----- From: Wendy Seltzer [mailto:wendy@seltzer.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 10:02 AM To: Gomes, Chuck Cc: Council GNSO Subject: Re: [council] RE: Proxy Voting Procedures
On 09/28/2010 08:15 AM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
In my assessment, that doesn't seem to work because of the following requirements:
- "A Councilor who believes that he/she should abstain from participation/voting on a measure before the Council is required to provide, at the earliest opportunity, a brief written notification documenting the circumstances to the appointing organization with a copy forwarded to the GNSO Secretariat."
- "To effectuate a remedy described in 4.5.3, the appointing organization or, when applicable, the House or Council NCA must provide a written statement to the GNSO Secretariat, as early as possible prior to any discussion/voting on the matter at issue . . ." Note the list of items that must be in the appointing organizations written communication with particular attention to: "Reason(s) for or condition(s) leading to the remedy"; "Specific subject(s)/measure(s)/motion(s)/action(s) of the Council for which the remedy is being exercised"; "the communication must include an affirmation that the appointing organization has established a voting position, subject to provisions contained in its Charter or Bylaws, on the matter at issue".
Why should that not be remediable by a standing order? (or why shouldn't we fix the OP to make it so, if an SG so chooses?)
--Wendy
-----Original Message----- From: Wendy Seltzer [mailto:wendy@seltzer.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 8:04 AM To: Gomes, Chuck Cc: Stéphane Van Gelder; Ken Bour; Mary Wong; Council GNSO; robert.hoggarth@icann.org; liz.gasster@icann.org Subject: Re: [council] RE: Proxy Voting Procedures
Could an SG establish a blanket rule that its Councilors, in the
event
of necessary abstentions, may delegate proxies up to the time of the vote, without further involvement required of the SG?
--Wendy
On 09/28/2010 07:37 AM, Gomes, Chuck wrote:
Stéphane,
Please see the following from the Procedures:
"4.5.3 Proxy Voting
The second method to be considered in avoiding the consequences of an abstention is the use of proxy voting, where the vote of an abstaining Councilor is transferred to another GNSO Councilor.
i. For abstentions declared by Councilors not appointed by the Nominating Committee and where voting direction is not a viable remedy, the appointing organization may transfer the vote of the abstaining Councilor to: (1) the House Nominating Committee Appointee (NCA), (2) another of its Constituency Councilors (where applicable), or (3) another Councilor within the Stakeholder Group. The appointing organization must be able to establish an affirmative or negative voting position, subject to provisions contained in its Charter or Bylaws, on the applicable measure/motion for which one of its Councilors has declared an intention to abstain. The Councilor to whom the vote is transferred shall exercise a vote in line with the appointing organization's stated position."
Did the RrSG "establish an affirmative or negative voting position, subject to provisions contained in its Charter or Bylaws, on the applicable measure/motion for which one of its Councilors has declared an intention to abstain"? If so, I was not aware of that. The procedures go on to describe the procedure for doing that as you can see below in Section 4.5.4, Procedures, taking note of particular sections that I highlighted:
"4.5.4 Procedures
This paragraph outlines the notification and communication steps required when an abstention condition is identified as well as the procedures that must be followed in remedying the abstention.
For the purposes of these procedures, the term "written" or "in writing" shall mean via postal mail or electronic mail (e-mail).
In order for an abstention remedy to be implemented, all required procedures must be completed prior to the start of the GNSO Council meeting in which the vote will be taken; otherwise, the abstention will not be remedied and the provisions of paragraph 4.5.4-c will apply.
a. Notification by Councilor
A Councilor who believes that he/she should abstain from participation/voting on a measure before the Council is required to provide, at the earliest opportunity, a brief written notification documenting the circumstances to the appointing organization with a copy forwarded to the GNSO Secretariat. For a House NCA, the notification should be sent to the GNSO Secretariat with a copy to the Council NCA who is required to acknowledge receipt to both parties that an automatic proxy is confirmed. If the situation is perceived to be confidential in nature and cannot be disclosed in the notification, a statement to that effect should be included by the Councilor.
b. Communication by Appointing Organization or NCA
To effectuate a remedy described in 4.5.3, the appointing organization or, when applicable, the House or Council NCA must provide a written statement to the GNSO Secretariat, as early as possible prior to any discussion/voting on the matter at issue, containing the following information:
· Name of the abstaining Councilor.
* Remedy selected (from Paragraph 4.5.3).
* Reason(s) for or condition(s) leading to the remedy.
* Specific subject(s)/measure(s)/motion(s)/action(s) of the Council for which the remedy is being exercised.
* Date upon which the remedy will expire or terminate. No remedy may initially or subsequently extend beyond three (3) months at a time. If the period needs to be extended, a written notice can be provided to the GNSO Secretariat indicating the reason for extension (e.g. Council vote postponed) and a new expiration date. While there is no limit to the number of extensions; "standing" remedies are not allowed under any circumstances.
* For the specific remedies of Voting Direction and Proxy Voting, the communication must include an affirmation that the appointing organization has established a voting position, subject to provisions contained in its Charter or Bylaws, on the matter at issue. For Voting Direction, a statement from the appointing organization shall indicate that the affected Councilor has been instructed how to vote on the matter. Exclusion: these statements are not applicable or required in a remedy applied for a House NCA.
* For Proxy Voting, identification of the GNSO Councilor who will register the vote for the abstaining Councilor.
* For a Temporary Alternate, identification of the individual who will serve as a substitute for the abstaining Councilor. If not already published and available, a short bio and Statement/Disclosure of Interest should be prepared by the Temporary Alternate and delivered to the GNSO Secretariat in advance of any discussion or voting scheduled to take place."
I made my decision based on my understanding of the above. If my understanding is incorrect, please help me see where I went wrong.
Fortunately, in this case, I don't believe that the denial of the proxy requests in the meeting had any material effect on the vote results. But I do hope that this provides us a good test that will lead to better understanding of the procedures by all of us, myself included, so that we can applying them properly and so that SGs and constituencies can minimize any loss of votes because of absences.
Chuck
From: Stéphane Van Gelder [mailto:stephane.vangelder@indom.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 4:37 AM To: Gomes, Chuck Cc: Ken Bour; Mary Wong; Council GNSO; robert.hoggarth@icann.org; liz.gasster@icann.org Subject: Re: [council] RE: Proxy Voting Procedures
This is only part of the texts that we should base our proxy voting procedures on, as it only deals with absences. I had seen this text and taking it into account when the issue of proxy voting came up during our last meeting.
I still see nothing here that should have prevented Tim from being able to request to have me as his proxy in the way that he did.
Stéphane
Le 28 sept. 2010 à 02:00, Gomes, Chuck a écrit :
Thanks a lot ken.
If anyone has questions about this, please ask.
Chuck
From: Ken Bour [mailto:ken.bour@verizon.net] Sent: Monday, September 27, 2010 2:05 PM To: 'Mary Wong'; Gomes, Chuck Cc: 'Council GNSO'; robert.hoggarth@icann.org; liz.gasster@icann.org Subject: Proxy Voting Procedures
Chuck, Mary, et al.:
I am not entirely sure that this will help resolve the confusion, but the absences and vacancies procedures are contained in Section 3.8- Incidental Absences of the GOP, not Section 4.5. I copied out the following paragraph (3.8.1-a) that pertains to your discussion...
a. Planned Absence: It is understood that, from time to time, it may be necessary for a GNSO Council member to miss a scheduled meeting due to a conflicting personal or professional obligation or other planned event that cannot be reasonably altered.
i. When a Councilor anticipates being absent or late for a Council meeting, the Councilor is expected to notify (e.g. telephone, e-mail) the GNSO Secretariat as soon as practicable before the meeting begins.
ii. A Councilor is expected to vote on such motions as may come before the GNSO Council using the alternative means provided in Section 4.4-Absentee Voting, if applicable. If circumstances will not permit voting using the alternative means available, the Councilor may declare an intention to abstain on those motions that are scheduled to be voted upon during the GNSO Council meeting at which the Councilor expects to be absent. In such an instance, the procedures in Section 4.5-Abstentions will apply.
In essence, in the case of a planned absence, the Councilor is permitted to declare an intention to abstain and that action affords the SG/C of the remedies in Section 4.5 (e.g. proxy). Unplanned absences, covered in 3.8.1(b), are not remediable due to lack of advanced notice.
To execute any voting remedy does not require that a Councilor determine or indicate whether an abstention is "volitional" or "obligational." Those categories were drafted to explain the types of abstentions that can occur -- illustrated with a few examples that were not intended to be exhaustive. A planned absence could possibly be interpreted as volitional or obligational depending upon the circumstances; but, again, it is not necessary to disclose which classification applies in any abstention situation. Once a Councilor knows, in advance of a Council meeting, that he/she will be absent, that is sufficient declaration to request a voting remedy from the SG/C.
If you have any other questions, I would be pleased to answer them.
Ken Bour
From: Mary Wong [mailto:Mary.Wong@law.unh.edu] Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 11:34 AM Cc: Council GNSO; robert.hoggarth@icann.org; ken.bour@verizon.net Subject: RE: [council] Proxy Voting Procedures
Thanks for the prompt and helpful answer, Chuck. I actually agree and understand that the inclusive language in 4.5.2(a), regarding examples of volitional absence, was intended to also cover the sort of situations I'd raised (particularly when read with the "either/or" voting universe contemplated by 3.8.1.)
The underlying problem, as I see it, is that the actual language of 4.5.2(a) in two respects creates potential uncertainty going forward (particularly some time down the road when many of those involved in drafting and initially implementing these new procedures are no longer on Council). These two respects are (1) the use of the words "elects to refrain from ... voting" in 4.5.2(a) (which implies a positive choice rather than one required by a necessary absence); and (2) the examples used to illustrate possible basis for such a choice. Although inclusive in nature, all three examples point toward instances which relate to a Councillor's substantive inability to discharge his/her duties responsibly. Either or both of these issues could result - down the road - in possibly narrower interpretations of the abstention voting procedures than we now are contemplating.
Helpful though our email discussions are, unfortunately they are not official minutes of a Council meeting or formal resolutions of a Council discussion. It occurs to me that issues of interpretation such as the one I raised could appropriately be referred, as a matter of implementation oversight, to our Standing Committee for a formal confirmation that this particular interpretation is correct for the record.
I'm not sure how we are supposed to do this, but I'd be happy to draft and submit a brief motion for Council consideration at the next meeting, if that's the way to do it.
Thanks and cheers
Mary
Mary W S Wong
Professor of Law
Chair, Graduate IP Programs
UNIVERSITY OF NEW HAMPSHIRE SCHOOL OF LAW Two White Street Concord, NH 03301 USA Email: mary.wong@law.unh.edu Phone: 1-603-513-5143 Webpage: http://www.law.unh.edu/marywong/index.php Selected writings available on the Social Science Research Network (SSRN) at: http://ssrn.com/author=437584
>
From:
"Gomes, Chuck" <cgomes@verisign.com>
To:
"Mary Wong" <Mary.Wong@law.unh.edu>
CC:
"Council GNSO" <council@gnso.icann.org>, <robert.hoggarth@icann.org>, <ken.bour@verizon.net>
Date:
9/24/2010 6:08 PM
Subject:
RE: [council] Proxy Voting Procedures
Mary,
I think you are missing something. In my opinion, if a Councilor cannot make a meeting, the procedures apply, as long as there is sufficient lead time to follow the procedures. What makes you think that "instances where a Councilor simply cannot be at a meeting" are not covered?
Note the following from Section 4.5:
· "When circumstances regarding a potential voting abstention occur that would otherwise prevent a Councilor from discharging his/her responsibilities (see Paragraph 4.5.2), the Councilor's appointing organization is provided a set of remedies (see Paragraph 4.5.3) designed to enable its vote to be exercised."
· "Circumstances may occur when a Council member elects to refrain from participating and voting for reasons that may include, but are not limited to . . ." (Section 4.5.2.a) Please note the phrase "not limited to". I believe that "instances where a Councilor simply cannot be at a meeting" are covered here.
BTW, I definitely do not view you as "being a pest". It is essential that we all learn the nuances of the new procedures so that we can use them appropriately and as easily as possible.
Chuck
From: owner-council@gnso.icann.org [mailto:owner- council@gnso.icann.org] On Behalf Of Mary Wong Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 11:07 AM Cc: Council GNSO; robert.hoggarth@icann.org; ken.bour@verizon.net Subject: Re: [council] Proxy Voting Procedures
Hi,
Besides the procedural issue, my concern was, and is, the sense (from reviewing the new Council operating procedures) that if a Councilor is going to be absent from a vote, the only way he/she can actually get to vote - assuming the issue is not one that relates specifically to a PDP Bylaw, Council procedure or vacancy (which triggers the Absentee Voting procedures in 4.4) - is on issues that dictate an abstention.
The problem is that 4.5 (on Abstentions) presuppose only 2 situations where an abstention is justified: (1) volitional (where a Councillor "elects to refrain from participating and voting", see 4.5.2(a); and (2) obligational (i.e. professional, personal or political conflicts), see 4.5.2(b). These then trigger the procedural remedies we've discussed (including a proxy vote).
I completely agree that Councilors are fully expected and required (including in 4.5.1) to participate actively and discharge their duties responsibly, such that instances of absent and/or proxy voting are minimized and not encouraged. However, it seems to me that there will be instances where a Councilor simply cannot be at a meeting, but fully wishes to vote on a motion that is not one that triggers either 4.4 or 4.5. In other words, he/she does not need to "elect to refrain" from voting, and is not otherwise obligated to abstain.
As currently worded, neither 4.4 nor 4.5 (including the language on proxies) would seem to cover this type of situation, which arguably could be handled via a relatively straightforward proxy process.
Am I missing something, reading the procedures too narrowly, or ... ? (maybe being a pest? :)
Thanks and cheers
Mary
In such a case, the new Operating Procedures do not seem to allow for a relatively simple - but documented and accountable - mechanism by which such a case could be handled through a proxy.
Mary W S Wong
Professor of Law
Chair, Graduate IP Programs
UNIVERSITY OF NEW HAMPSHIRE SCHOOL OF LAW Two White Street Concord, NH 03301 USA Email: mary.wong@law.unh.edu Phone: 1-603-513-5143 Webpage: http://www.law.unh.edu/marywong/index.php Selected writings available on the Social Science Research Network (SSRN) at: http://ssrn.com/author=437584
>
From:
Stéphane Van Gelder<stephane.vangelder@indom.com>
To:
"Gomes, Chuck" <cgomes@verisign.com>
CC:
"Council GNSO" <council@gnso.icann.org>, <robert.hoggarth@icann.org>, <ken.bour@verizon.net>
Date:
9/8/2010 4:39 PM
Subject:
Re: [council] Proxy Voting Procedures
Thanks Chuck. I had read that very article as I prepared for today's meeting yesterday, as I was looking at the various links pertaining to absences and voting that Glen sent to the Council list before this meeting.
I did not have the same understanding as you re the requirement to request for a proxy in advance of the meeting (where does it say that in sub-section i. below?). I would argue that in Tim's case, the appointing organization, i.e. the RrSG, had established a position. This was not 'stated' on the public Council list, but article i. does not say this should be done in this way. I agree there is ambiguity here and my intent is not to second-guess the decision you made in today's meeting. But as this processes are still a bit new to us all, I just want to make sure we iron out some of the wrinkles so that if we have this type of situation again, we know how to handle it.
Thanks,
Stéphane
Le 8 sept. 2010 à 19:25, Gomes, Chuck a écrit :
Here is my response to Stéphane's question regarding the GNSO Operating Procedures (GOP) requirements regarding proxy voting.
Here is the applicable excerpt from the GOP, Section 4.5.3.b, Remedies:
"Proxy Voting
The second method to be considered in avoiding the consequences of an abstention is the use of proxy voting, where the vote of an abstaining Councilor is transferred to another GNSO Councilor.
i. For abstentions declared by Councilors not appointed by the Nominating Committee and where voting direction is not a viable remedy, the appointing organization may transfer the vote of the abstaining Councilor to: (1) the House Nominating Committee Appointee (NCA), (2) another of its Constituency Councilors (where applicable), or (3) another Councilor within the Stakeholder Group. The appointing organization must be able to establish an affirmative or negative voting position, subject to provisions contained in its Charter or Bylaws, on the applicable measure/motion for which one of its Councilors has declared an intention to abstain. The Councilor to whom the vote is transferred shall exercise a vote in line with the appointing organization's stated position.
ii. If an abstention is declared by a House NCA, once formal notification has occurred pursuant to the procedures in Paragraph 4.5.4-a, a proxy is automatically transferred to the GNSO Council's unaffiliated NCA (hereinafter Council NCA) and any vote cast will be counted within the House to which the abstaining NCA is assigned. The Council NCA may exercise only one proxy at a time; therefore, the first abstention remedy properly transferred to the Council NCA, including all measures/motions specified, takes precedence. It should be noted that, because NCAs do not have an appointing organization, as defined in these procedures (see Section 1.3.1), to provide specific voting direction, the Council NCA may exercise his/her best judgment, including abstaining, on the matter at issue. If the Council NCA abstains or does not cast a vote for any other reason, no further remedies are available and the automatic proxy will be nullified. The original House NCA will be recorded in the minutes as having abstained from the vote."
If I interpret the above correctly, for proxies to have been allowed in today's meeting the following would have need to have happened in advance: The appointing organization of the Councilor who has to abstain (because of planned absence or other reasons) "must be able to establish an affirmative or negative voting position" and that would have needed to have sent to Secretary. I believe Staff has prepared a template to facilitate this. That did not happen in any of the cases where proxies were requested today.
I cc'd Rob and Ken so that they can correct me if my interpretation is in error.
Chuck
As of August 30, 2010, Franklin Pierce Law Center has affiliated with the University of New Hampshire and is now known as the University of New Hampshire School of Law. Please note that all email addresses have changed and now follow the convention: firstname.lastname@law.unh.edu. For more information on the University of New Hampshire School of Law, please visit law.unh.edu <http://law.unh.edu>
As of August 30, 2010, Franklin Pierce Law Center has affiliated with the University of New Hampshire and is now known as the University of New Hampshire School of Law. Please note that all email addresses have changed and now follow the convention: firstname.lastname@law.unh.edu. For more information on the University of New Hampshire School of Law, please visit law.unh.edu <http://law.unh.edu>
-- Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@seltzer.org +1 914-374-0613 Fellow, Princeton Center for Information Technology Policy Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html http://www.chillingeffects.org/ https://www.torproject.org/ http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/
-- Wendy Seltzer -- wendy@seltzer.org +1 914-374-0613 Fellow, Princeton Center for Information Technology Policy Fellow, Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/seltzer.html http://www.chillingeffects.org/ https://www.torproject.org/ http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/