Draft letter to the Board on closed generics dialogue
Dear Councilors, Please find attached for you review a draft response letter to the ICANN Board on closed generics. It intends to capture the conclusions of our discussion during the Council call last week. We would like to have it ready for the Board workshop next week, so please have a look before April 27th 1200 UTC (Wednesday) Thanks. Regards, Philippe _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you.
Hi Philippe: Two comments: 1. If the NCSG has requested that reference to their comment should be included it in the letter, then we should include it. If not, you might ask if they want that (and if they do, include it). I don’t think it adds value at this point — but will add value as we get into the meeting set-up, the discussion scope, and the actions taken with any recommendations that come out of the meeting. 2. I personally recommend that we avoid the use of the term ‘modalities.’ I don’t know what it means and, if participating in a group tasked with identifying them, I wouldn’t know what they are. I right clicked on the word and found that Microsoft knows of no synonyms. I looked it up in a popular online dictionary and came up with: — the quality or state of being modal; a modal quality or attribute; — the classification of logical propositions according to their asserting or denying the possibility, impossibility, contingency, or necessity of their content; — one of the main avenues of sensation (such as vision); — a usually physical therapeutic agency Not getting the sense from there, I looked for its use in a sentence and found: "Ineluctable modality of the visible: at least that if no more, thought through my eyes.” The New Yorker, 7 Feb. 2022 That did not help me understand the definition but did tell me a lot about the kind of people that use the word. I understand the word is commonly used in governmental settings but we needn’t adopt the custom if it is not clarifying or helpful. Slightly more seriously, when we meet among ourselves and with the GAC, we should all understand the target and “modalities” seems too broad. It would be helpful for me (maybe it is just me) to replace the word with commonly spoken terms or to parenthetically define it. Thanks for listening, Kurt
On Apr 22, 2022, at 3:32 AM, philippe.fouquart--- via council <council@gnso.icann.org> wrote:
Dear Councilors,
Please find attached for you review a draft response letter to the ICANN Board on closed generics. It intends to capture the conclusions of our discussion during the Council call last week.
We would like to have it ready for the Board workshop next week, so please have a look before April 27th 1200 UTC (Wednesday)
Thanks. Regards,
Philippe
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. <Closed Generics_Council to ICANN Board - 20 April 2022.docx>_______________________________________________ council mailing list council@gnso.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/council
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Hello Philippe, Kurt, 1. I agree with Kurt on the NCSG letter, and if it were to be included, I think we should at least address the assertion that "GAC has been silent since 2013 on the matter of Closed Generics" as called out by Jeff as a mis-characterization of the GAC on the part of NCSG. 2. I understand the word "modalities" to mean "ways of doing something", but if there's a better word to address Kurt's concerns then by all means, let's consider that. 3. Would it be feasible to add to the end of the second paragraph, a suggestion that "the conditions and modalities for that dialogue" will be forthcoming? That would indicate that Council is giving thought to those and will continue to do so (hence allowing for the Closed Generics small team leeway to do its work). Thanks for considering. Kind regards, Justine On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 06:54, Kurt Pritz via council <council@gnso.icann.org> wrote:
Hi Philippe:
Two comments:
1. If the NCSG has requested that reference to their comment should be included it in the letter, then we should include it. If not, you might ask if they want that (and if they do, include it). I don’t think it adds value at this point — but will add value as we get into the meeting set-up, the discussion scope, and the actions taken with any recommendations that come out of the meeting.
2. I personally recommend that we avoid the use of the term ‘modalities.’ I don’t know what it means and, if participating in a group tasked with identifying them, I wouldn’t know what they are. I right clicked on the word and found that Microsoft knows of no synonyms. I looked it up in a popular online dictionary and came up with:
— the quality or state of being modal; a modal quality or attribute; — the classification of logical propositions according to their asserting or denying the possibility, impossibility, contingency, or necessity of their content; — one of the main avenues of sensation (such as vision); — a usually physical therapeutic agency
Not getting the sense from there, I looked for its use in a sentence and found:
"Ineluctable modality of the visible: at least that if no more, thought through my eyes.” *The New Yorker, 7 Feb. 2022*
That did not help me understand the definition but did tell me a lot about the kind of people that use the word. I understand the word is commonly used in governmental settings but we needn’t adopt the custom if it is not clarifying or helpful.
Slightly more seriously, when we meet among ourselves and with the GAC, we should all understand the target and “modalities” seems too broad. It would be helpful for me (maybe it is just me) to replace the word with commonly spoken terms or to parenthetically define it.
Thanks for listening,
Kurt
On Apr 22, 2022, at 3:32 AM, philippe.fouquart--- via council < council@gnso.icann.org> wrote:
Dear Councilors,
Please find attached for you review a draft response letter to the ICANN Board on closed generics. It intends to capture the conclusions of our discussion during the Council call last week.
We would like to have it ready for the Board workshop next week, so please have a look before April 27th 1200 UTC (Wednesday)
Thanks. Regards,
Philippe
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you.
<Closed Generics_Council to ICANN Board - 20 April 2022.docx> _______________________________________________ council mailing list council@gnso.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/council
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_______________________________________________ council mailing list council@gnso.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/council
_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
I strongly urge that the letter from the NCSG is not included with this letter. As Justine states, there are some mischaracterizations in that letter and as far as I am aware the rest of the Council does not agree with the opinions expressed by the NCSG. You can indicate that the NCSG opposed the meeting in the letter without any attachments. If you include the NCSG letter, would you consider adding letters from the other SGs and Cs that are in support of the meeting? I believe the best way is to note the NCSG’s disagreement, but not attach anything. And with respect to the word “modalities”, it is an unnecessary word. A “modality” is a condition is it not? So I would just state: “….that the Council is willing to pursue next steps for the facilitated dialogue, subject to mutual agreement with the GAC on the conditions for that dialogue.” [cid:image001.png@01D8562D.DBA5C1A0] Jeffrey J. Neuman Founder & CEO JJN Solutions, LLC p: +1.202.549.5079 E: jeff@jjnsolutions.com<mailto:jeff@jjnsolutions.com> http://jjnsolutions.com From: council <council-bounces@gnso.icann.org> On Behalf Of Justine Chew via council Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 8:12 PM To: Kurt Pritz <kurt@kjpritz.com>; Philippe Fouquart <philippe.fouquart@orange.com> Cc: GNSO Secs <gnso-secs@icann.org>; council@gnso icann. org <council@gnso.icann.org> Subject: Re: [council] Draft letter to the Board on closed generics dialogue Hello Philippe, Kurt, 1. I agree with Kurt on the NCSG letter, and if it were to be included, I think we should at least address the assertion that "GAC has been silent since 2013 on the matter of Closed Generics" as called out by Jeff as a mis-characterization of the GAC on the part of NCSG. 2. I understand the word "modalities" to mean "ways of doing something", but if there's a better word to address Kurt's concerns then by all means, let's consider that. 3. Would it be feasible to add to the end of the second paragraph, a suggestion that "the conditions and modalities for that dialogue" will be forthcoming? That would indicate that Council is giving thought to those and will continue to do so (hence allowing for the Closed Generics small team leeway to do its work). Thanks for considering. Kind regards, Justine On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 06:54, Kurt Pritz via council <council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org>> wrote: Hi Philippe: Two comments: 1. If the NCSG has requested that reference to their comment should be included it in the letter, then we should include it. If not, you might ask if they want that (and if they do, include it). I don’t think it adds value at this point — but will add value as we get into the meeting set-up, the discussion scope, and the actions taken with any recommendations that come out of the meeting. 2. I personally recommend that we avoid the use of the term ‘modalities.’ I don’t know what it means and, if participating in a group tasked with identifying them, I wouldn’t know what they are. I right clicked on the word and found that Microsoft knows of no synonyms. I looked it up in a popular online dictionary and came up with: — the quality or state of being modal; a modal quality or attribute; — the classification of logical propositions according to their asserting or denying the possibility, impossibility, contingency, or necessity of their content; — one of the main avenues of sensation (such as vision); — a usually physical therapeutic agency Not getting the sense from there, I looked for its use in a sentence and found: "Ineluctable modality of the visible: at least that if no more, thought through my eyes.” The New Yorker, 7 Feb. 2022 That did not help me understand the definition but did tell me a lot about the kind of people that use the word. I understand the word is commonly used in governmental settings but we needn’t adopt the custom if it is not clarifying or helpful. Slightly more seriously, when we meet among ourselves and with the GAC, we should all understand the target and “modalities” seems too broad. It would be helpful for me (maybe it is just me) to replace the word with commonly spoken terms or to parenthetically define it. Thanks for listening, Kurt On Apr 22, 2022, at 3:32 AM, philippe.fouquart--- via council <council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org>> wrote: Dear Councilors, Please find attached for you review a draft response letter to the ICANN Board on closed generics. It intends to capture the conclusions of our discussion during the Council call last week. We would like to have it ready for the Board workshop next week, so please have a look before April 27th 1200 UTC (Wednesday) Thanks. Regards, Philippe _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. <Closed Generics_Council to ICANN Board - 20 April 2022.docx>_______________________________________________ council mailing list council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/council _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ council mailing list council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/council _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.
Kurt, Justine, Jeff, thanks for the inputs. On 1) and reference to the NCSG’s letter: The reference is on record with the minutes, and can also be found in the Council list archive, I don’t think there’s any risk this goes unnoticed, I’d suggest we simply say While the Council is willing to pursue these next steps, it is important to note that Non-Commercial Stakeholders Group expressed its opposition to the approach. Manju (since it is you who spoke on this during our call): would you be fine with this? On 2) and modalities, I’d suggest we go for Jeff’s edits and simply say in the second paragraph: The Council is appreciative of the ICANN Board’s attention to GNSO related matters and is willing to pursue next steps for the facilitated dialogue, subject to mutual agreement with the GAC on the conditions for that dialogue. Ironically, in French, the equivalent of ‘modalities’ has a sense of a series of menial tasks that the authors would consider a) quite straightforward and b) as a result, generally not worth doing by themselves. Neither of which would probably be true here I think. It seems 2) alleviates the need to elaborate as, Justine, you suggested with your 3rd point but let us know if it doesn’t work. As attached with diff marks. Regards, Philippe From: Jeff Neuman <jeff@jjnsolutions.com> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2022 3:48 PM To: Justine Chew <justine.chew.icann@gmail.com>; Kurt Pritz <kurt@kjpritz.com>; FOUQUART Philippe INNOV/NET <philippe.fouquart@orange.com> Cc: GNSO Secs <gnso-secs@icann.org>; council@gnso icann. org <council@gnso.icann.org> Subject: RE: [council] Draft letter to the Board on closed generics dialogue I strongly urge that the letter from the NCSG is not included with this letter. As Justine states, there are some mischaracterizations in that letter and as far as I am aware the rest of the Council does not agree with the opinions expressed by the NCSG. You can indicate that the NCSG opposed the meeting in the letter without any attachments. If you include the NCSG letter, would you consider adding letters from the other SGs and Cs that are in support of the meeting? I believe the best way is to note the NCSG’s disagreement, but not attach anything. And with respect to the word “modalities”, it is an unnecessary word. A “modality” is a condition is it not? So I would just state: “….that the Council is willing to pursue next steps for the facilitated dialogue, subject to mutual agreement with the GAC on the conditions for that dialogue.” [cid:image001.png@01D85686.6B945800] Jeffrey J. Neuman Founder & CEO JJN Solutions, LLC p: +1.202.549.5079 E: jeff@jjnsolutions.com<mailto:jeff@jjnsolutions.com> http://jjnsolutions.com From: council <council-bounces@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council-bounces@gnso.icann.org>> On Behalf Of Justine Chew via council Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 8:12 PM To: Kurt Pritz <kurt@kjpritz.com<mailto:kurt@kjpritz.com>>; Philippe Fouquart <philippe.fouquart@orange.com<mailto:philippe.fouquart@orange.com>> Cc: GNSO Secs <gnso-secs@icann.org<mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org>>; council@gnso icann. org <council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org>> Subject: Re: [council] Draft letter to the Board on closed generics dialogue Hello Philippe, Kurt, 1. I agree with Kurt on the NCSG letter, and if it were to be included, I think we should at least address the assertion that "GAC has been silent since 2013 on the matter of Closed Generics" as called out by Jeff as a mis-characterization of the GAC on the part of NCSG. 2. I understand the word "modalities" to mean "ways of doing something", but if there's a better word to address Kurt's concerns then by all means, let's consider that. 3. Would it be feasible to add to the end of the second paragraph, a suggestion that "the conditions and modalities for that dialogue" will be forthcoming? That would indicate that Council is giving thought to those and will continue to do so (hence allowing for the Closed Generics small team leeway to do its work). Thanks for considering. Kind regards, Justine On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 06:54, Kurt Pritz via council <council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org>> wrote: Hi Philippe: Two comments: 1. If the NCSG has requested that reference to their comment should be included it in the letter, then we should include it. If not, you might ask if they want that (and if they do, include it). I don’t think it adds value at this point — but will add value as we get into the meeting set-up, the discussion scope, and the actions taken with any recommendations that come out of the meeting. 2. I personally recommend that we avoid the use of the term ‘modalities.’ I don’t know what it means and, if participating in a group tasked with identifying them, I wouldn’t know what they are. I right clicked on the word and found that Microsoft knows of no synonyms. I looked it up in a popular online dictionary and came up with: — the quality or state of being modal; a modal quality or attribute; — the classification of logical propositions according to their asserting or denying the possibility, impossibility, contingency, or necessity of their content; — one of the main avenues of sensation (such as vision); — a usually physical therapeutic agency Not getting the sense from there, I looked for its use in a sentence and found: "Ineluctable modality of the visible: at least that if no more, thought through my eyes.” The New Yorker, 7 Feb. 2022 That did not help me understand the definition but did tell me a lot about the kind of people that use the word. I understand the word is commonly used in governmental settings but we needn’t adopt the custom if it is not clarifying or helpful. Slightly more seriously, when we meet among ourselves and with the GAC, we should all understand the target and “modalities” seems too broad. It would be helpful for me (maybe it is just me) to replace the word with commonly spoken terms or to parenthetically define it. Thanks for listening, Kurt On Apr 22, 2022, at 3:32 AM, philippe.fouquart--- via council <council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org>> wrote: Dear Councilors, Please find attached for you review a draft response letter to the ICANN Board on closed generics. It intends to capture the conclusions of our discussion during the Council call last week. We would like to have it ready for the Board workshop next week, so please have a look before April 27th 1200 UTC (Wednesday) Thanks. Regards, Philippe _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. <Closed Generics_Council to ICANN Board - 20 April 2022.docx>_______________________________________________ council mailing list council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/council _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ council mailing list council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/council _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you.
Hi Phillipe, In that case, NCSG will send the letter explaining our opposition to the Board ourselves. Thanks, Manju On Sat, Apr 23, 2022 at 2:57 AM philippe.fouquart--- via council < council@gnso.icann.org> wrote:
Kurt, Justine, Jeff, thanks for the inputs.
On 1) and reference to the NCSG’s letter: The reference is on record with the minutes, and can also be found in the Council list archive, I don’t think there’s any risk this goes unnoticed, I’d suggest we simply say While the Council is willing to pursue these next steps, it is important to note that Non-Commercial Stakeholders Group expressed its opposition to the approach.
Manju (since it is you who spoke on this during our call): would you be fine with this?
On 2) and modalities, I’d suggest we go for Jeff’s edits and simply say in the second paragraph:
The Council is appreciative of the ICANN Board’s attention to GNSO related matters and is willing to pursue next steps for the facilitated dialogue, subject to mutual agreement with the GAC on the conditions for that dialogue.
Ironically, in French, the equivalent of ‘modalities’ has a sense of a series of menial tasks that the authors would consider a) quite straightforward and b) as a result, generally not worth doing by themselves. Neither of which would probably be true here I think.
It seems 2) alleviates the need to elaborate as, Justine, you suggested with your 3rd point but let us know if it doesn’t work.
As attached with diff marks.
Regards,
Philippe
*From:* Jeff Neuman <jeff@jjnsolutions.com> *Sent:* Friday, April 22, 2022 3:48 PM *To:* Justine Chew <justine.chew.icann@gmail.com>; Kurt Pritz < kurt@kjpritz.com>; FOUQUART Philippe INNOV/NET < philippe.fouquart@orange.com> *Cc:* GNSO Secs <gnso-secs@icann.org>; council@gnso icann. org < council@gnso.icann.org> *Subject:* RE: [council] Draft letter to the Board on closed generics dialogue
I strongly urge that the letter from the NCSG is not included with this letter. As Justine states, there are some mischaracterizations in that letter and as far as I am aware the rest of the Council does not agree with the opinions expressed by the NCSG. You can indicate that the NCSG opposed the meeting in the letter without any attachments. If you include the NCSG letter, would you consider adding letters from the other SGs and Cs that are in support of the meeting? I believe the best way is to note the NCSG’s disagreement, but not attach anything.
And with respect to the word “modalities”, it is an unnecessary word. A “modality” is a condition is it not? So I would just state: “….that the Council is willing to pursue next steps for the facilitated dialogue, subject to mutual agreement with the GAC on the conditions for that dialogue.”
Jeffrey J. Neuman
Founder & CEO
JJN Solutions, LLC
p: +1.202.549.5079
E: jeff@jjnsolutions.com
*From:* council <council-bounces@gnso.icann.org> *On Behalf Of *Justine Chew via council *Sent:* Thursday, April 21, 2022 8:12 PM *To:* Kurt Pritz <kurt@kjpritz.com>; Philippe Fouquart < philippe.fouquart@orange.com> *Cc:* GNSO Secs <gnso-secs@icann.org>; council@gnso icann. org < council@gnso.icann.org> *Subject:* Re: [council] Draft letter to the Board on closed generics dialogue
Hello Philippe, Kurt,
1. I agree with Kurt on the NCSG letter, and if it were to be included, I think we should at least address the assertion that "GAC has been silent since 2013 on the matter of Closed Generics" as called out by Jeff as a mis-characterization of the GAC on the part of NCSG.
2. I understand the word "modalities" to mean "ways of doing something", but if there's a better word to address Kurt's concerns then by all means, let's consider that.
3. Would it be feasible to add to the end of the second paragraph, a suggestion that "the conditions and modalities for that dialogue" will be forthcoming? That would indicate that Council is giving thought to those and will continue to do so (hence allowing for the Closed Generics small team leeway to do its work).
Thanks for considering.
Kind regards, Justine
On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 06:54, Kurt Pritz via council < council@gnso.icann.org> wrote:
Hi Philippe:
Two comments:
1. If the NCSG has requested that reference to their comment should be included it in the letter, then we should include it. If not, you might ask if they want that (and if they do, include it). I don’t think it adds value at this point — but will add value as we get into the meeting set-up, the discussion scope, and the actions taken with any recommendations that come out of the meeting.
2. I personally recommend that we avoid the use of the term ‘modalities.’ I don’t know what it means and, if participating in a group tasked with identifying them, I wouldn’t know what they are. I right clicked on the word and found that Microsoft knows of no synonyms. I looked it up in a popular online dictionary and came up with:
— the quality or state of being modal; a modal quality or attribute;
— the classification of logical propositions according to their asserting or denying the possibility, impossibility, contingency, or necessity of their content;
— one of the main avenues of sensation (such as vision);
— a usually physical therapeutic agency
Not getting the sense from there, I looked for its use in a sentence and found:
"Ineluctable modality of the visible: at least that if no more, thought through my eyes.” *The New Yorker, 7 Feb. 2022*
That did not help me understand the definition but did tell me a lot about the kind of people that use the word. I understand the word is commonly used in governmental settings but we needn’t adopt the custom if it is not clarifying or helpful.
Slightly more seriously, when we meet among ourselves and with the GAC, we should all understand the target and “modalities” seems too broad. It would be helpful for me (maybe it is just me) to replace the word with commonly spoken terms or to parenthetically define it.
Thanks for listening,
Kurt
On Apr 22, 2022, at 3:32 AM, philippe.fouquart--- via council < council@gnso.icann.org> wrote:
Dear Councilors,
Please find attached for you review a draft response letter to the ICANN Board on closed generics. It intends to capture the conclusions of our discussion during the Council call last week.
We would like to have it ready for the Board workshop next week, so please have a look before April 27th 1200 UTC (Wednesday)
Thanks.
Regards,
Philippe
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
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Hi Manju, and thanks for this. It would be helpful if the NCSG were to send it separately. As discussed during our last call, some of the concerns/questions expressed in it will be taken forward with the GAC, and notably its point 3) and the need for the conversation to be broader. Regards, Philippe From: 陳曼茹 Manju Chen <manju@nii.org.tw> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2022 8:25 AM To: FOUQUART Philippe INNOV/NET <philippe.fouquart@orange.com> Cc: Jeff Neuman <jeff@jjnsolutions.com>; Justine Chew <justine.chew.icann@gmail.com>; Kurt Pritz <kurt@kjpritz.com>; GNSO Secs <gnso-secs@icann.org>; council@gnso icann. org <council@gnso.icann.org> Subject: Re: [council] Draft letter to the Board on closed generics dialogue Hi Phillipe, In that case, NCSG will send the letter explaining our opposition to the Board ourselves. Thanks, Manju On Sat, Apr 23, 2022 at 2:57 AM philippe.fouquart--- via council <council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org>> wrote: Kurt, Justine, Jeff, thanks for the inputs. On 1) and reference to the NCSG’s letter: The reference is on record with the minutes, and can also be found in the Council list archive, I don’t think there’s any risk this goes unnoticed, I’d suggest we simply say While the Council is willing to pursue these next steps, it is important to note that Non-Commercial Stakeholders Group expressed its opposition to the approach. Manju (since it is you who spoke on this during our call): would you be fine with this? On 2) and modalities, I’d suggest we go for Jeff’s edits and simply say in the second paragraph: The Council is appreciative of the ICANN Board’s attention to GNSO related matters and is willing to pursue next steps for the facilitated dialogue, subject to mutual agreement with the GAC on the conditions for that dialogue. Ironically, in French, the equivalent of ‘modalities’ has a sense of a series of menial tasks that the authors would consider a) quite straightforward and b) as a result, generally not worth doing by themselves. Neither of which would probably be true here I think. It seems 2) alleviates the need to elaborate as, Justine, you suggested with your 3rd point but let us know if it doesn’t work. As attached with diff marks. Regards, Philippe Orange Restricted From: Jeff Neuman <jeff@jjnsolutions.com<mailto:jeff@jjnsolutions.com>> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2022 3:48 PM To: Justine Chew <justine.chew.icann@gmail.com<mailto:justine.chew.icann@gmail.com>>; Kurt Pritz <kurt@kjpritz.com<mailto:kurt@kjpritz.com>>; FOUQUART Philippe INNOV/NET <philippe.fouquart@orange.com<mailto:philippe.fouquart@orange.com>> Cc: GNSO Secs <gnso-secs@icann.org<mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org>>; council@gnso icann. org <council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org>> Subject: RE: [council] Draft letter to the Board on closed generics dialogue I strongly urge that the letter from the NCSG is not included with this letter. As Justine states, there are some mischaracterizations in that letter and as far as I am aware the rest of the Council does not agree with the opinions expressed by the NCSG. You can indicate that the NCSG opposed the meeting in the letter without any attachments. If you include the NCSG letter, would you consider adding letters from the other SGs and Cs that are in support of the meeting? I believe the best way is to note the NCSG’s disagreement, but not attach anything. And with respect to the word “modalities”, it is an unnecessary word. A “modality” is a condition is it not? So I would just state: “….that the Council is willing to pursue next steps for the facilitated dialogue, subject to mutual agreement with the GAC on the conditions for that dialogue.” [cid:image001.png@01D858C4.F61ADEA0] Jeffrey J. Neuman Founder & CEO JJN Solutions, LLC p: +1.202.549.5079 E: jeff@jjnsolutions.com<mailto:jeff@jjnsolutions.com> http://jjnsolutions.com From: council <council-bounces@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council-bounces@gnso.icann.org>> On Behalf Of Justine Chew via council Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2022 8:12 PM To: Kurt Pritz <kurt@kjpritz.com<mailto:kurt@kjpritz.com>>; Philippe Fouquart <philippe.fouquart@orange.com<mailto:philippe.fouquart@orange.com>> Cc: GNSO Secs <gnso-secs@icann.org<mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org>>; council@gnso icann. org <council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org>> Subject: Re: [council] Draft letter to the Board on closed generics dialogue Hello Philippe, Kurt, 1. I agree with Kurt on the NCSG letter, and if it were to be included, I think we should at least address the assertion that "GAC has been silent since 2013 on the matter of Closed Generics" as called out by Jeff as a mis-characterization of the GAC on the part of NCSG. 2. I understand the word "modalities" to mean "ways of doing something", but if there's a better word to address Kurt's concerns then by all means, let's consider that. 3. Would it be feasible to add to the end of the second paragraph, a suggestion that "the conditions and modalities for that dialogue" will be forthcoming? That would indicate that Council is giving thought to those and will continue to do so (hence allowing for the Closed Generics small team leeway to do its work). Thanks for considering. Kind regards, Justine On Fri, 22 Apr 2022 at 06:54, Kurt Pritz via council <council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org>> wrote: Hi Philippe: Two comments: 1. If the NCSG has requested that reference to their comment should be included it in the letter, then we should include it. If not, you might ask if they want that (and if they do, include it). I don’t think it adds value at this point - but will add value as we get into the meeting set-up, the discussion scope, and the actions taken with any recommendations that come out of the meeting. 2. I personally recommend that we avoid the use of the term ‘modalities.’ I don’t know what it means and, if participating in a group tasked with identifying them, I wouldn’t know what they are. I right clicked on the word and found that Microsoft knows of no synonyms. I looked it up in a popular online dictionary and came up with: - the quality or state of being modal; a modal quality or attribute; - the classification of logical propositions according to their asserting or denying the possibility, impossibility, contingency, or necessity of their content; - one of the main avenues of sensation (such as vision); - a usually physical therapeutic agency Not getting the sense from there, I looked for its use in a sentence and found: "Ineluctable modality of the visible: at least that if no more, thought through my eyes.” The New Yorker, 7 Feb. 2022 That did not help me understand the definition but did tell me a lot about the kind of people that use the word. I understand the word is commonly used in governmental settings but we needn’t adopt the custom if it is not clarifying or helpful. Slightly more seriously, when we meet among ourselves and with the GAC, we should all understand the target and “modalities” seems too broad. It would be helpful for me (maybe it is just me) to replace the word with commonly spoken terms or to parenthetically define it. Thanks for listening, Kurt On Apr 22, 2022, at 3:32 AM, philippe.fouquart--- via council <council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org>> wrote: Dear Councilors, Please find attached for you review a draft response letter to the ICANN Board on closed generics. It intends to capture the conclusions of our discussion during the Council call last week. We would like to have it ready for the Board workshop next week, so please have a look before April 27th 1200 UTC (Wednesday) Thanks. Regards, Philippe _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. <Closed Generics_Council to ICANN Board - 20 April 2022.docx>_______________________________________________ council mailing list council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/council _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _______________________________________________ council mailing list council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/council _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. _______________________________________________ council mailing list council@gnso.icann.org<mailto:council@gnso.icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/council _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you.
Hi Philippe No objection on the v6. I agree with Kurt on the first point that we should ask NCSG if they wish the letter to be included and if the answer is a positive one, we should include it. Desiree -- Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) secure email. ------- Original Message ------- On Thursday, April 21st, 2022 at 11:54 PM, Kurt Pritz via council <council@gnso.icann.org> wrote:
Hi Philippe:
Two comments:
1. If the NCSG has requested that reference to their comment should be included it in the letter, then we should include it. If not, you might ask if they want that (and if they do, include it). I don’t think it adds value at this point — but will add value as we get into the meeting set-up, the discussion scope, and the actions taken with any recommendations that come out of the meeting.
2. I personally recommend that we avoid the use of the term ‘modalities.’ I don’t know what it means and, if participating in a group tasked with identifying them, I wouldn’t know what they are. I right clicked on the word and found that Microsoft knows of no synonyms. I looked it up in a popular online dictionary and came up with:
— the quality or state of being modal; a modal quality or attribute; — the classification of logical propositions according to their asserting or denying the possibility, impossibility, contingency, or necessity of their content; — one of the main avenues of sensation (such as vision); — a usually physical therapeutic agency
Not getting the sense from there, I looked for its use in a sentence and found:
"Ineluctable modality of the visible: at least that if no more, thought through my eyes.” The New Yorker, 7 Feb. 2022
That did not help me understand the definition but did tell me a lot about the kind of people that use the word. I understand the word is commonly used in governmental settings but we needn’t adopt the custom if it is not clarifying or helpful.
Slightly more seriously, when we meet among ourselves and with the GAC, we should all understand the target and “modalities” seems too broad. It would be helpful for me (maybe it is just me) to replace the word with commonly spoken terms or to parenthetically define it.
Thanks for listening,
Kurt
On Apr 22, 2022, at 3:32 AM, philippe.fouquart--- via council <council@gnso.icann.org> wrote:
Dear Councilors,
Please find attached for you review a draft response letter to the ICANN Board on closed generics. It intends to capture the conclusions of our discussion during the Council call last week.
We would like to have it ready for the Board workshop next week, so please have a look before April 27th 1200 UTC (Wednesday)
Thanks. Regards,
Philippe
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you.
<Closed Generics_Council to ICANN Board - 20 April 2022.docx>_______________________________________________ council mailing list council@gnso.icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/council
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participants (6)
-
desiree-me -
Jeff Neuman -
Justine Chew -
Kurt Pritz -
philippe.fouquart＠orange.com -
陳曼茹 Manju Chen