Dear Olivier, Both the Wikipedia list and the one I used as my reference (http://www.statoids.com/wab.html) indicate that IOC and FIFA use the ISO 3166-1 3-letter code for well over one hundred countries and territories. Not a majority (of a total of 249 listed), you're right, but still enough to create confusion. Best, Yrjö ________________________________ From: Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 10:20 AM To: Yrjö Länsipuro; Greg Shatan; Carlton Samuels; cpwg@icann.org Subject: Re: [GTLD-WG] [CPWG] [registration-issues-wg] URGENT - WT5 proposal for 3-letter country codes Dear Yrjö, I am sorry to be late in responding and putting some sand in the works, especially since many people agreed with you, but most of the examples you cite below do NOT use ISO3166. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_alphabetic_country_codes<https://eur04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FComparison_of_alphabetic_country_codes&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cd5022cae8b0642e4befc08d607368e2f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636704328226892592&sdata=ntS4W7cDyISj0933UdQenf5%2B1Z%2FhFlxYuXwzdskE2Cg%3D&reserved=0> So would that put even more 3 letter codes on a reserved list? Kindest regards, Olivier On 19/08/2018 19:15, Yrjö Länsipuro wrote: Dear Greg, all, The geo-use of ISO 3166 3-letter codes today includes many applications that come pretty close to the end-user. One can assume a certain level of awareness of them and of their connection to the relevant countries, especially to one's own. All machine-readable travel documents (passport, visas) indicate the nationality of the bearer using the ISO-3166 3-letter code. The International Olympic Committee uses ISO 3166 3-letter code for teams from 129 countries, FIFA for teams from 152 countries. For 27 countries, the international car licence plate code equals the ISO 3166 3-letter code. ISO 3166 3-letter code is also used for countries by World Integrated Trade Solutions databases, which serve the World Bank, WTO, UNCTAD, UN Statistical Commission, International Trade Centre... A few end-users there, too. Using ISO 3166 3-letter codes as TLD's not connected with the relevant country would inevitably invite end user confusion. Best, Yrjö ________________________________ From: registration-issues-wg <registration-issues-wg-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org><mailto:registration-issues-wg-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of Greg Shatan <greg@isoc-ny.org><mailto:greg@isoc-ny.org> Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 2:05 AM To: Carlton Samuels Cc: cpwg@icann.org<mailto:cpwg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [registration-issues-wg] [CPWG] URGENT - WT5 proposal for 3-letter country codes Carlton, I think you are thinking about ISO-3166 in a way that doesn’t reflect the history, as I understand what happened. When the idea of country-related TLDs came up, nobody wanted ICANN (and its predecessors) to be “in the business” of deciding what is or isn’t a country, nor did they want to get into the business of inventing or deciding what constituted the appropriate country-related TLD (or to resolve possible overlaps like Austria/Australia). So they “borrowed” the ISO 3166 list of countries and territories to deal with the first issue, and they borrowed the ISO-3166 2-letter codes to resolve the second issue. The 3-letter codes were just left alone and were never part of the TLD discussion, TLD policy, etc. So, rather than this being a restriction of some previously decided matter, we are really talking about an expansion beyond the 2-letter codes by affirmatively assigning ISO 3166 3 letter codes a new formal role in TLD policy and decision-making. It also means we would be making a geo-friendly value judgment regarding the relative merits of various possible TLD uses for 3-letter strings that have other meanings and also function as 3-letter codes. So, the jam band community and the jazz jam session community and the jam manufacturers (and home jam makers) all become second-class behind Jamaica, which already has a 2-letter ccTLD and other options (.JAMAICA, for instance). Maybe these are not particularly compelling alternatives, but consider .IOT, with the Internet of Things such a burgeoning area of Internet expansion.... I don’t have a neat suggestion to end this with, but we do need to face the issue of whether, for end users, the potential geo-use is always the most beneficial. Best regards, Greg On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 12:29 PM Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com<mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com><mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com><mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com>> wrote: Very interesting indeed. SO ISO 3166-1 defined three (3) sets of country codes; 2-letter, 3-letter, and 3-digit. ISO 3166-1 is the authoritative baseline for country coded TLDs. So now, the proposition is that we accept that this baseline is restricted purely to the use of the 2-letter codes. Question is, why so? If I were a ccTLD administrator and since this is so much like the land grab of that time, I would have been forced to paraphrase and grouse as allegedly the Bourbon King of France did at the Treaty of Tordesillas " am I not a Christian and a Prince?" [Disclosure: At one time I was the one with the binding authority at .jm]. My previous attempt to pass on my own view with a tongue-firmly-in-cheek reference to 'jam' seems to have missed the mark. So now, let me be crystal clear. I am for a blanket reservation of all strings pertaining ISO 3166-1 with those already delegated grandfathered. Why, anything else will only encourage speculation like my proposal to go to the Prime Minister of Jamaica and ask his support for delegating the 3-letter code for Jamaica - 'jam' - to me. It is a opportunity that is pregnant with gaming possibilities. But that might be too firm and a bridge to far for all to accept. So, I can live with my friend Carlos Guiterrez's proposed language; not totally satisfying but close enough to principle for an embrace. -Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround ============================= On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 9:16 PM Justine Chew <justine.chew@gmail.com<mailto:justine.chew@gmail.com><mailto:justine.chew@gmail.com><mailto:justine.chew@gmail.com>> wrote: These are my thoughts on the issue of ISO 3166-1 3-letter codes: I too believe that WT5 is fully competent to deal with the issue of whether, when and how strings identical to the existing ISO 3166 3-letter codes could be applied for and delegated, though at the rate WT5 is going, the position may very well end in a recommendation that it be chartered for deliberation by (yet) a(nother) GNSO PDP WG. Notwithstanding, 3-letter strings on ISO 3166-1 standard I don't believe it is desirable for any un-delegated 3-letter strings currently on the ISO 3166-1 standard to remain unavailable for application in the next round. However, I am not convinced that an outright claim can be made that "there is no "tradition" of ISO 3166-1 3-letter codes being used for top level domain names connected with the related countries and territories". Jorge Cancio suggested that Switzerland does (in some way) and also some of these codes overlap with others, eg those used by the IOC in the Olympic Games. In any case, I take the view that by virtue of ICANN being represented on the ISO 3166-1 Maintenance Agency, there should be at the very least, some moral obligation by ICANN to recognise and treat (in the first instance) all such 3-letter strings which exactly match the ISO 3166-1 3-letter codes as a representation of the corresponding assigned country. I have also noted that exceptions need to be considered -- as in the case of the Union of Comoros, for which ".com" is no longer available -- for which an alternative 3-letter string should be made available for application by applicants who either represent the Union of Comoros or which received letters of support/non-objection from the Union's government should they wish to apply for a 3-letter string for a purpose associated with the Union. This exception would also need to be made available for any country that is put onto an updated ISO 3166-1 standard, where the assigned 3-letter code is no longer available. As for 3-letter codes which also have generic meanings or said to be subject to lost opportunities, I think 3-letter code country designations should be prioritised -- think of them as "superlative" special nouns. So as an eg .IOT, would be a "superlative" special noun of the British Indian Ocean Territory, superlative to the special noun of The Internet of Things. In other words, country names trumps everything else, and accordingly, the concept of intended use does not apply. As to who should be allowed to apply, in sharing concerns for terms which have not been defined by Carlos per se, I too am concerned about who is meant by "public interest/public benefit entities"; that could be any entity, as Greg suggests, which claims to act in public interest/public benefit. In this respect, on using the relatively successful cases of city name gTLD applications as inspiration, I don't see the harm in opening up application to anyone/any entity whereupon the " relevant government or public authority or ccTLD manager" can also apply and if there is contention, then curative mechanisms already in place kick in to assist in resolution of such contention. In the same breath, if an entity which is not the "relevant government or public authority or ccTLD manager" applies, then that application should be subject to the requirement for a letter or support or non-objection from the relevant government or public authority. This could in my opinion best facilitate the application for 3-letter strings which match ISO 3166-1 3-letter codes under a preventive and curative 'safeguards' framework. Also there is nothing to say that the relevant government or public authority and an applicant cannot arrive to some understanding in respect of the application, including terms and conditions of the gTLD (downstream even) should the application be successful. The kind of partnership framework which Maureen reminded us of is an appealing resolution mechanism. Of course, this would depend on the attitudes of the parties concerned, but don't other things suffer the same fate? Also, the suggestion of time limits for response by a government or public authority is a good one IMO. Perhaps, to facilitate (if one must insists upon it) a 'prioritisation' of applications by a "relevant government or public authority or ccTLD manager", I wonder if a Sunrise Period would be a feasible option. Possibly a difficult consideration, since application windows are typically tight as it is, not to mention the need for effective pre-launch marketing. Lastly, I too don't wish to wade into the discussion of 'expanding the territory of ccTLDs' -- it is clear in my mind that all 3-letter strings (whether they match ISO 3166-1 3-letter codes or not) would be treated as gTLDs and not ccTLDs. The realm of ccTLDs remains in the 2-letter sphere. 3-letter strings NOT on ISO 3166-1 standard I also don't believe it is desirable for any un-delegated 3-letter strings NOT currently on the ISO 3166-1 standard to remain unavailable for application in the next round. They should not be reserved and should be made available for application, with a pre-defined resolution mechanism to deal with exceptions arising out of changes to the ISO 3166-1 standard over time. Regards, Justine Chew ----- On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 at 03:44, Sivasubramanian M <6.Internet@gmail.com<mailto:6.Internet@gmail.com><mailto:6.Internet@gmail.com><mailto:6.Internet@gmail.com>> wrote: On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 12:14 AM Maureen Hilyard <maureen.hilyard@gmail.com<mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com><mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com><mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com>> wrote: Hi everyone If you have been following the discussions in WT5 you will see that there has been a lot of controversy over the GNSO consensus process on Country and Territory Names and how best to come to a decision on each of the key issues that are being discussed. With regards to an agreement over 3-letter country codes, Carlos Raul Gutierrez has proposed the following suggestion to help this process move forward, I believe we should consider his proposal as a reasonable compromise considering all the discussion that has taken place and send our support (or otherwise) to our ALAC co-Chair. The ALAC views could be coordinated by the CPWG leads but will be required by Tuesday??. This is urgent, as it appears that consensus calls will be received by the co-Chairs during the week and as they will have to prepare for the next WT5 meeting on the 22nd, it would be good to include an ALAC opinion as well. “Dear Annebeth, As you have heard me (too) many times before, I admire the track record of preceding, clearly focused public interest 3 letter geo-TLDs, like the ones from Catalonia in Spain, Brittany's in France, and Serbia's 3 letter TLDs Now that I re-stated my rationale for such a clear-cut public interest case in an email to Rosalia (for geo use ONLY, accessible -i.e. cheap- and non-profit), I hereby submit to the WT my final revised language suggestion, which is ONLY applicable for 3-Letter codes. It would substitute the following final paragraph in the relevant section which deals with 3-Letter codes: “The SubPro may want to consider recommending whether any future application/revision/delegation process to be established (either generic or restricted to the Geographic categories only), should determine if, when, and how specific interested parties, such as relevant public international, national or sub-national public authorities, may apply for country and territory names" My suggestion for a FORWARD looking option is: “ICANN may only consider applications of ISO 3166-1 Alpha 3 Letter Codes submitted by relevant governmental authorities, ccTLD managers and public interest/public benefit entities.” +1. And, as Alpha3 Letter Codes become a new stream of ccTLDs, ICANN could impress upon the relevant local government authorities and ccTLD managers to agree on a common minimum set of DNS rules, conventions and best practices in the operation of this new stream of ccTLDs, as distinct from the 2 characters country codes, some operated well, some not so well, some in tune with the way the DNS works, some pulled in a different direction. Governments are right in considering ccTLDs as their space, but in the past some ccTLDs in some countries were transferred to external entities within or out of their countries, some ccTLD went out of control irrespective of who operated them; It became difficult for ICANN perhaps even promote Security and Stability measures such as DNSSEC. If alpha3 codes are deemed as a new stream of ccTLDs, it then becomes an opportunity for ICANN to delegate them as a more integrated TLD class within the DNS, somewhere between the somewhat detached 2 character ccTLD and the fully coordinated gTLDs. An example result of such an approach would be an alpha3 application criteria that might look for technical expertise or a contract with an accredited Registry Service Provider with relevant ccTLD experience; while there may be more elaborate criteria, the respective countries may have country specific policies for operation of the alpha3 codes except where such national policies are NOT in sharp contrast with the general principles of the DNS. Sivasubramanian M This paragraph is, in my view, a sensible part of a forward-looking recommendation that could go ahead with broader WT consensus. And if it does not, please make sure it is recorded as an objection against a permanent restriction of the delegation of the ISO 3-Letter list. Thanks to all, Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez" _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list CPWG@icann.org<mailto:CPWG@icann.org><mailto:CPWG@icann.org><mailto:CPWG@icann.org> 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