One big-happy trade association, so much for “unaffiliated” ICANN participants 😊 A lot has changed since 1999. From: Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2025 at 3:10 PM To: Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> Cc: CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> Subject: [CPWG] Re: [lac-discuss-en] IFR2 Review is Officially Shuttered Hi, note taken and filed. Since the work is finished, no futher comment for now. Alejandro Pisanty ________________________________ De: Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> Enviado: martes, 9 de septiembre de 2025 04:18 p. m. Para: Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch CC: CPWG Asunto: Re: [lac-discuss-en] IFR2 Review is Officially Shuttered Alejandro, not sure what your angle is but I would not wish to overcomplicate for you. A statement of interest is about relevance, not inventory. I could list every connection and side affiliation I have, but that would only drain oxygen from the room without adding substance. For the record, I was nominated by ALAC as the At-Large rep to IFR2 RT. Concerning LACRALO, I am and remain a foundational leader since 2006, the convenor of the UWI ALS and now, alternate for the UWI ALS to voting rep Patrick Anglin. In regard the institution, I still take p/t teaching posts at The UWI. We are indeed proud of our UWI antecedents. Beyond that, yes, I have other ties I could parade, even to several ISOC chapters. But that would just be TMI. (A quick nod to our privacy dilemma.) Think of it in the same way you show up UNAM one day and ISOC the next. Cheers, Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround ============================= On Mon, 8 Sept 2025 at 12:14, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch <apisan@unam.mx<mailto:apisan@unam.mx>> wrote: Carlton, thanks a lot. It is good to know that the IANA function gets very good marks after the review. I do note that your statement of interest does not mention the University of the West Indies or any direct employment by an entity represented in LACRALO. Under "Current vocation, employer, and position" it states "Independent consultant, Self-employed, Digital Transformation Coach" Alejandro Pisanty ________________________________ De: Carlton Samuels via lac-discuss-en <lac-discuss-en@icann.org<mailto:lac-discuss-en@icann.org>> Enviado: lunes, 8 de septiembre de 2025 09:43 a. m. Para: CPWG; LAC-Discuss-en Asunto: [lac-discuss-en] IFR2 Review is Officially Shuttered With the Final Report<https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/second-iana-naming-function-revi...> submitted to the ICANN Board, the IFR2 RT is now disbanded. See the announcement y the co-chairs here: https://www.icann.org/en/blogs/details/ifr2-review-team-completes-iana-funct... Carlton ============================== Carlton A Samuels Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround =============================

HI Mike, I cannot speak to what happened this year, but I can speak to what happened in 2022, and it was not at all like what you said. I was on the NomCom that year and can say definitively that what you wrote about that happened in 2022 was just wrong.  As the NomCom discussions are private, perhaps what someone told you was going on was slanted by their point of view and not in actuality the way it played out.  I can only say it was not how you mentioned it in your note. On why Chris Chapman did not get selected this year. Do we even know for certain if Chris Chapman even did apply to be renominated?  Also, sometimes people who were shortlisted and then did not make the cut had other issues. Some people have bad days when interviewing and other people just aced their interviews. Without being there in person, you have no way of judging the situation and what happened. If indeed Chris had put forward his name, perhaps the interviews did not go well, as that could happen.  I recall when I was on noncom two candidates had excellent initial interviews but then bombed their next interview and so you never can know why a person was not chosen. Perhaps you might want to think more thoroughly before posting your note to Circle ID to ensure you are not slandering people unfairly as you have done by your article.  We also have some people in that NomCom committee that year who sadly are not alive anymore to correct these statements that are besmirching their good names. Best, Judith _________________________________________________________________________ Judith Hellerstein, Founder & CEO Hellerstein & Associates 3001 Veazey Terrace NW, Washington DC 20008 Phone: (202) 362-5139 Skype ID: judithhellerstein Mobile/Whats app: +1202-333-6517 E-mail:Judith@jhellerstein.com Website:www.jhellerstein.com Linked In:www.linkedin.com/in/jhellerstein/ Opening Telecom & Technology Opportunities Worldwide On 9/10/25 4:07 PM, mike palage.com via CPWG wrote:

Well maybe NOT offlist 😊

To provide context to the rest of the CPWG, I sent a communication to Tripti last week regarding concerns with the output of the ICANN Nominating Committee and the current capture of the ICANN Board by “affiliated” directors. Sadly, that communication has not yet been posted on the ICANN Correspondence page. I will be posting that communication on CircleID later today with some additional thoughts.

I wanted to raise this topic under the any other business portion of today’s CPWG call but I had to drop for an important client call.

In case I experience delays in publishing to CircleID today, I have attached the communication I sent to Tripti last week.

Best regards,

Michael

*From: *mike palage.com <mike@palage.com> *Date: *Wednesday, September 10, 2025 at 4:00 PM *To: *Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch <apisan@unam.mx> *Cc: *CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> *Subject: *Offlist

One big-happy trade association, so much for “unaffiliated” ICANN participants 😊

A lot has changed since 1999.

*From: *Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> *Date: *Wednesday, September 10, 2025 at 3:10 PM *To: *Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> *Cc: *CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> *Subject: *[CPWG] Re: [lac-discuss-en] IFR2 Review is Officially Shuttered

Hi,

note taken and filed. Since the work is finished, no futher comment for now.

Alejandro Pisanty

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*De:*Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels@gmail.com> *Enviado:* martes, 9 de septiembre de 2025 04:18 p. m. *Para:* Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch *CC:* CPWG *Asunto:* Re: [lac-discuss-en] IFR2 Review is Officially Shuttered

Alejandro, not sure what your angle is but I would not wish to overcomplicate for you. A statement of interest is about relevance, not inventory. I could list every connection and side affiliation I have, but that would only drain oxygen from the room without adding substance.

For the record, I was nominated by ALAC as the At-Large rep to IFR2 RT.

Concerning LACRALO, I am and remain a foundational leader since 2006, the convenor of the UWI ALS and now, alternate for the UWI ALS to voting rep Patrick Anglin. In regard the institution, I still take p/t teaching posts at The UWI. We are indeed proud of our UWI antecedents.

Beyond that, yes, I have other ties I could parade, even to several ISOC chapters. But that would just be TMI. (A quick nod to our privacy dilemma.)

Think of it in the same way you show up UNAM one day and ISOC the next.

Cheers, Carlton

============================== /Carlton A Samuels/ /Mobile: 876-818-1799 //Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround/ =============================

On Mon, 8 Sept 2025 at 12:14, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch <apisan@unam.mx> wrote:

Carlton,

thanks a lot. It is good to know that the IANA function gets very good marks after the review.

I do note that your statement of interest does not mention the University of the West Indies or  any direct employment by an entity represented in LACRALO. Under "Current vocation, employer, and position" it states "Independent consultant, Self-employed, Digital Transformation Coach"

Alejandro Pisanty

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*De:*Carlton Samuels via lac-discuss-en <lac-discuss-en@icann.org> *Enviado:* lunes, 8 de septiembre de 2025 09:43 a. m. *Para:* CPWG; LAC-Discuss-en *Asunto:* [lac-discuss-en] IFR2 Review is Officially Shuttered

With the Final Report <https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/second-iana-naming-function-revi...> submitted to the ICANN Board, the IFR2 RT is now disbanded.  See the announcement  y the co-chairs here:

https://www.icann.org/en/blogs/details/ifr2-review-team-completes-iana-funct...

Carlton

============================== /Carlton A Samuels/ /Mobile: 876-818-1799 //Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround/ =============================

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Mike, I also was on the 2022 NomCom with Judith and Vanda, and can confirm what they said about the selection of candidates. You speak as if you were with us on the NomCom, but what you provided as information about the selection in 2022 is far from being what happened. But Mike, this doesn't mean that I desagree with you about the nomber of unaffiliated Directors on the Board. This is another discussion. Tijani ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Vanda Scartezini via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> a écrit :

Agreed Judith.  Nomcom members does not talk about who have or not applied. only the person itself can state what they want. NOMCOM also suggest to candidates,  no matter selected or not, to abstain to talk about if they have or not applied, but of course they can decide otherwise.  Vanda    FROM: Judith Hellerstein via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> DATE: Wednesday, 10 September 2025 at 17:53 TO: mike palage.com <mike@palage.com>, CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> SUBJECT: [CPWG] Re: Offlist  

HI Mike,

I cannot speak to what happened this year, but I can speak to what happened in 2022, and it was not at all like what you said.  I was on the NomCom that year and can say definitively that what you wrote about that happened in 2022 was just wrong.  As the NomCom discussions are private, perhaps what someone told you was going on was slanted by their point of view and not in actuality the way it played out.  I can only say it was not how you mentioned it in your note.

On why Chris Chapman did not get selected this year. Do we even know for certain if Chris Chapman even did apply to be renominated?  Also, sometimes people who were shortlisted and then did not make the cut had other issues. Some people have bad days when interviewing and other people just aced their interviews. Without being there in person, you have no way of judging the situation and what happened. If indeed Chris had put forward his name, perhaps the interviews did not go well, as that could happen.  I recall when I was on noncom two candidates had excellent initial interviews but then bombed their next interview and so you never can know why a person was not chosen. 

Perhaps you might want to think more thoroughly before posting your note to Circle ID to ensure you are not slandering people unfairly as you have done by your article.  We also have some people in that NomCom committee that year who sadly are not alive anymore to correct these statements that are besmirching their good names.

Best,

Judith

_________________________________________________________________________ Judith Hellerstein, Founder & CEO Hellerstein & Associates 3001 Veazey Terrace NW, Washington DC 20008 Phone: (202) 362-5139 Skype ID: judithhellerstein Mobile/Whats app: +1202-333-6517 E-mail: _Judith@jhellerstein.com_ Website: _www.jhellerstein.com[1]_ Linked In: _www.linkedin.com/in/jhellerstein/[2]_ Opening Telecom & Technology Opportunities Worldwide On 9/10/25 4:07 PM, mike palage.com via CPWG wrote:

...

Well maybe NOT offlist 😊

 

To provide context to the rest of the CPWG, I sent a communication to Tripti last week regarding concerns with the output of the ICANN Nominating Committee and the current capture of the ICANN Board by “affiliated” directors. Sadly, that communication has not yet been posted on the ICANN Correspondence page. I will be posting that communication on CircleID later today with some additional thoughts.

 

I wanted to raise this topic under the any other business portion of today’s CPWG call but I had to drop for an important client call.

 

In case I experience delays in publishing to CircleID today, I have attached the communication I sent to Tripti last week.

 

Best regards,

 

Michael

 

FROM: mike palage.com _<mike@palage.com>[3]_ DATE: Wednesday, September 10, 2025 at 4:00 PM TO: Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch _<apisan@unam.mx>[4]_ CC: CPWG _<cpwg@icann.org>[5]_ SUBJECT: Offlist

One big-happy trade association, so much for “unaffiliated” ICANN participants  😊

 

A lot has changed since 1999.

 

 

FROM: Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch via CPWG _<cpwg@icann.org>[5]_ DATE: Wednesday, September 10, 2025 at 3:10 PM TO: Carlton Samuels _<carlton.samuels@gmail.com>[6]_ CC: CPWG _<cpwg@icann.org>[5]_ SUBJECT: [CPWG] Re: [lac-discuss-en] IFR2 Review is Officially Shuttered

Hi,

 

note taken and filed. Since the work is finished, no futher comment for now. 

 

Alejandro Pisanty

 

-------------------------

DE: Carlton Samuels _<carlton.samuels@gmail.com>[6]_ ENVIADO: martes, 9 de septiembre de 2025 04:18 p. m. PARA: Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch CC: CPWG ASUNTO: Re: [lac-discuss-en] IFR2 Review is Officially Shuttered

 

Alejandro, not sure what your angle is but I would not wish to overcomplicate for you. A statement of interest is about relevance, not inventory. I could list every connection and side affiliation I have, but that would only drain oxygen from the room without adding substance.

For the record, I was nominated by ALAC as the At-Large rep to IFR2 RT.

Concerning LACRALO, I am and remain a foundational leader since 2006, the convenor of the UWI ALS and now, alternate for the UWI ALS to voting rep Patrick Anglin. In regard the institution, I still take p/t teaching posts at The UWI. We are indeed proud of our UWI antecedents.

Beyond that, yes, I have other ties I could parade, even to several ISOC chapters. But that would just be TMI. (A quick nod to our privacy dilemma.) 

Think of it in the same way you show up UNAM one day and ISOC the next.

Cheers, Carlton

============================== /Carlton A Samuels/ /Mobile: 876-818-1799/ /Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround/ =============================

 

 

On Mon, 8 Sept 2025 at 12:14, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch <_apisan@unam.mx_> wrote:

...

Carlton,

 

thanks a lot. It is good to know that the IANA function gets very good marks after the review. 

 

I do note that your statement of interest does not mention the University of the West Indies or  any direct employment by an entity represented in LACRALO. Under "Current vocation, employer, and position" it states "Independent consultant, Self-employed, Digital Transformation Coach" 

 

Alejandro Pisanty

 

 

 

-------------------------

DE: Carlton Samuels via lac-discuss-en <_lac-discuss-en@icann.org_> ENVIADO: lunes, 8 de septiembre de 2025 09:43 a. m. PARA: CPWG; LAC-Discuss-en ASUNTO: [lac-discuss-en] IFR2 Review is Officially Shuttered

 

With the _Final Report[7]_ submitted to the ICANN Board, the IFR2 RT is now disbanded.  See the announcement  y the co-chairs here:

 

_https://www.icann.org/en/blogs/details/ifr2-review-team-completes-iana-funct...

...

 

Carlton

============================== /Carlton A Samuels/ /Mobile: 876-818-1799/ /Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround/ =============================

  _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list -- _cpwg@icann.org_ To unsubscribe send an email to _cpwg-leave@icann.org_ _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (_https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy_) and the website Terms of Service (_https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos_). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

Liens: ------ [1] http://www.jhellerstein.com [2] http://www.linkedin.com/in/jhellerstein/ [3] mailto:mike@palage.com [4] mailto:apisan@unam.mx [5] mailto:cpwg@icann.org [6] mailto:carlton.samuels@gmail.com [7] https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/second-iana-naming-function-revi... -- Tijani BEN JEMAA Executive Director Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI) Telephone: +216 52 385 114

Hi Carlton,  To say that "It is only recently that participation by an 'unaffiliated' person was recognized. And with this, that person is still relegated to second class status for rights and privileges in participation." is, at minimum, an over-generalization.   I personally have never been a member of an ALS.  Yet if I have been "relegated to second class status" in the decade plus that I have been involved in ICANN, it has somehow escaped my notice.**  For me, being elected by the members of NARALO for a term as their representative on the ALAC didn't feel like second class status.   Perhaps other Regional Ogranizations are different in this regard.  Or perhaps I simply do not understand what is meant by second class status.   Bill Jouris  **  I except, of course, the second class status that anyone outside the GNSO has.  That would seem to be a different discussion from how At Large works (that being the only place where ALSs are noticed).  Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Thu, Sep 11, 2025 at 9:38 AM, Carlton Samuels via CPWG<cpwg@icann.org> wrote: _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list -- cpwg@icann.org To unsubscribe send an email to cpwg-leave@icann.org _______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

Ah Bill. I’ve been working inside ICANN’s At-Large community since 2006, and I’ve seen real progress. But the fight is far from over. We’ve gone from being treated like distant cousins no one wanted to invite to dinner to being grudgingly recognized as part of the family. Sure is something. But in my view not enough. The “Empowered Community” label sounds impressive, yet resistance to full At-Large participation still runs deep. We are continually asked — sometimes openly, sometimes with a polite but oily smile — to prove our worth and justify our existence. When it comes from people who I ordinarily would not notice, it rankles. The truth is, the heavy lifting has always come from individuals: the people who research issues, shape policy, and speak for everyday Internet users. But the institutionalised At-Large in some places system still privileges the institutional shell — the At-Large Structure (ALS) — over the person. NARALO is quite progressive here, largely for the work of people like Alan and Evan. Look at LACRALO. To give individuals a voice, we created a byzantine framework for “unaffiliated” members. It’s so convoluted that talented recruits take one look and walk away. If you believe, as I do, that access to the Internet is a fundamental right and that ordinary users deserve representation wherever that right is debated and contested, you know the struggle continues. We in the Caribbean keep showing up. We keep pushing. And, we still have to fight for our place every single day. Cheers. Carlton ============================== *Carlton A Samuels* *Mobile: 876-818-1799Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* ============================= On Fri, 12 Sept 2025 at 00:45, Bill Jouris <b_jouris@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi Carlton,

To say that "It is only recently that participation by an '*unaffiliated*' person was recognized. And with this, that person is still relegated to second class status for rights and privileges in participation." is, at minimum, an over-generalization.

I personally have never been a member of an ALS. Yet if I have been "relegated to second class status" in the decade plus that I have been involved in ICANN, it has somehow escaped my notice.** For me, being elected by the members of NARALO for a term as their representative on the ALAC didn't *feel* like second class status.

Perhaps other Regional Ogranizations are different in this regard. Or perhaps I simply do not understand what is meant by second class status.

Bill Jouris

** I except, of course, the second class status that anyone outside the GNSO has. That would seem to be a different discussion from how At Large works (that being the only place where ALSs are noticed).

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_Andr...>

On Thu, Sep 11, 2025 at 9:38 AM, Carlton Samuels via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> wrote: _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list -- cpwg@icann.org To unsubscribe send an email to cpwg-leave@icann.org

_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

Dear Carlos I hear you, brother. My focus has not changed since I first joined At-Large in 2006: an Internet open to everyone, connecting each of us to all of us. Whatever tools or structures advance that goal, I will lend my time and brainpower. The At-Large bureaucracy never fitted me comfortably, but you play the hand you’re dealt. Back then, my day job as a senior administrator at the UWI — three Nobel laureates tied to it — aligned with the mission. UWI wanted to reach students and researchers worldwide. The internet was indispensable. ICANN sent a young Canadian, Jacob Malthouse, to my Kingston office to pitch this new At-Large idea. I answered. I held the pen that delivered the first bilingual Rules of Procedure and Operating Principles for the very first Regional At-Large Organization —LACRALO— working with Dev Anand Teelucksingh, Lance Hinds, Niran Beharry, Jacqueline Morris, Nick Ashton-Hart and Andres Piazza from Argentina. The UWI served two terms as Secretariat for LACRALO; as convenor for the UWI ALS, I was the face for LACRALO then. Our aim for LACRALO then was few chiefs, many volunteers climbing over each other to shape ICANN policy. Reality soon cooled that dream. But we can still claim a few well-qualified and able recruits to the At-Large cause. We also pushed ICANN to go multilingual. Jacqueline, Lance, Dev, Nick, and I made the case; Cristina Rodriguez helped seal it inside. That was an easy call, a decision aligned with our principles; English-only operations marginalized our Spanish-speaking neighbours and we fought to fix it. Since then I have avoided elections but stayed busy: two NomCom appointments, penned a few ALAC Advisories, participated in multiple review teams and working groups, including chairing a few. I will keep contributing, if only because the work and the principle still matter. Cheers Carlton ============================== *Carlton A Samuels* *Mobile: 876-818-1799Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* ============================= On Tue, 16 Sept 2025 at 08:36, Carlos Dionisio Aguirre < carlosaguirre62@hotmail.com> wrote:

Dear Carlton, I fully agree with your comments and opinion, but one of the writers of the LACRALO`s RoP were you. I don´t want charge nothing on your back, but we are a litle bit responsibles, all of us who have worked in the region during the last 20 years. We need to change what and how the participation is, but in my humble opinion can´t take as examples guys who are eternally installed as if nobody other can be do the job. my two cents.

Carlos Dionisio Aguirre

(Internet is the End Users, and not to the individuals customized as an End Users, and working for different interests) ------------------------------ *De:* Carlton Samuels via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> *Enviado:* lunes, 15 de septiembre de 2025 14:46 *Para:* Bill Jouris <b_jouris@yahoo.com> *Cc:* CPWG <cpwg@icann.org>; Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch <apisan@unam.mx> *Asunto:* [CPWG] Re: Offlist

Ah Bill. I’ve been working inside ICANN’s At-Large community since 2006, and I’ve seen real progress. But the fight is far from over. We’ve gone from being treated like distant cousins no one wanted to invite to dinner to being grudgingly recognized as part of the family. Sure is something. But in my view not enough.

The “Empowered Community” label sounds impressive, yet resistance to full At-Large participation still runs deep. We are continually asked — sometimes openly, sometimes with a polite but oily smile — to prove our worth and justify our existence. When it comes from people who I ordinarily would not notice, it rankles.

The truth is, the heavy lifting has always come from individuals: the people who research issues, shape policy, and speak for everyday Internet users. But the institutionalised At-Large in some places system still privileges the institutional shell — the At-Large Structure (ALS) — over the person. NARALO is quite progressive here, largely for the work of people like Alan and Evan.

Look at LACRALO. To give individuals a voice, we created a byzantine framework for “unaffiliated” members. It’s so convoluted that talented recruits take one look and walk away.

If you believe, as I do, that access to the Internet is a fundamental right and that ordinary users deserve representation wherever that right is debated and contested, you know the struggle continues. We in the Caribbean keep showing up. We keep pushing. And, we still have to fight for our place every single day.

Cheers.

Carlton

============================== *Carlton A Samuels*

*Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* =============================

On Fri, 12 Sept 2025 at 00:45, Bill Jouris <b_jouris@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi Carlton,

To say that "It is only recently that participation by an '*unaffiliated*' person was recognized. And with this, that person is still relegated to second class status for rights and privileges in participation." is, at minimum, an over-generalization.

I personally have never been a member of an ALS. Yet if I have been "relegated to second class status" in the decade plus that I have been involved in ICANN, it has somehow escaped my notice.** For me, being elected by the members of NARALO for a term as their representative on the ALAC didn't *feel* like second class status.

Perhaps other Regional Ogranizations are different in this regard. Or perhaps I simply do not understand what is meant by second class status.

Bill Jouris

** I except, of course, the second class status that anyone outside the GNSO has. That would seem to be a different discussion from how At Large works (that being the only place where ALSs are noticed).

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_Andr...>

On Thu, Sep 11, 2025 at 9:38 AM, Carlton Samuels via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> wrote: _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list -- cpwg@icann.org To unsubscribe send an email to cpwg-leave@icann.org

_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

NARALO Voting: The vote of all Indiv. Members is consolidated into a single vote equivalent to that of an ALS - just the same as EURALO as I understand it. Not relevant to this discussion, but as the number of Individual Members grow, I suspect at some point, we may want to consider more than one vote... Alan On Wed, Sep 17, 2025 at 4:43 PM Roberto Gaetano via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> wrote:

Hi all

Just for clarification, not to have misunderstandings. I disagree with the sentence:

In Naralo we feel the opposite works.

Actually, the paragraph:

… Anyone can join as an individual member and can be as active as they want. They can run for any position and can join any group or be nominated for any naralo position.

applies also to EURALO Individual Members. As a matter of fact 2 out of the 5 current EURALO Board Members are EURALO Individual Members.

I cannot speak about voting because I have to confess that I do not know how NARALO voting works, and what is the relative voting weight between ALSes and Individuals. But anyway I am a strong supporter of the late Einar Stefferud <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einar_Stefferud>’s statement that what is important is to have a voice, not a vote.

Cheers, Roberto

On 17.09.2025, at 14:54, Judith Hellerstein via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> wrote:

Hi All In Naralo we feel the opposite works. Anyone can join as an individual member and can be as active as they want. They can run for any position and can join any group or be nominated for any naralo position. In voting matters all individual members are part of one bloc and they vote in their group and then the nominated person then votes their slate and choices in the main election

So they have the best of both options

Judith Sent from my iPhone Mobile and What’s app: +12023336517

On Sep 17, 2025, at 8:32 AM, Sergio Salinas Porto via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> wrote:

 Dear Carlton, I'm astonished to see that you're referring to LACRALO, arguing that it's difficult to join as an individual member, which is far from the truth. I'm not interested in polemics or creating conflicts, but I have heard many people express their opinions about LACRALO without having read the rules of procedure or the attached documents on the subject, and they say without blushing that LACRALO DOES NOT ALLOW INDIVIDUAL USERS TO PARTICIPATE. LACRALO is open to individual members. We adopt the same participation procedure as EURALO (an ALS that brings everyone together). This model, we believe, works and guarantees serious and reliable participation for those who want to participate within an organized, rule-based organizational framework. Best regards.

*Sergio Salinas Porto**Presidente Internauta Argentina - LACRALO/ICANN <https://atlarge.icann.org/ralos/lacralo>**Asociación Argentina de Usuarios de Internet <http://www.internauta.org.ar/>/FeTIA <http://www.fetia.org.ar/>**FUILAC- Federación de Usuarios de Internet de LAC <https://fuilac.org/>**facebook: salinasporto <http://www.facebook.com/salinasporto> **twitter: sergiosalinas <http://twitter.com/sergiosalinas>**Mobi:+54 9 223 5 215819**"Ojalá podamos ser desobedientes, cada vez que recibimos órdenes que humillan nuestra *

* conciencia o violan nuestro sentido común" Eduardo Galeano*

El lun, 15 sept 2025 a las 14:46, Carlton Samuels via CPWG (< cpwg@icann.org>) escribió:

...

Ah Bill. I’ve been working inside ICANN’s At-Large community since 2006, and I’ve seen real progress. But the fight is far from over. We’ve gone from being treated like distant cousins no one wanted to invite to dinner to being grudgingly recognized as part of the family. Sure is something. But in my view not enough.

The “Empowered Community” label sounds impressive, yet resistance to full At-Large participation still runs deep. We are continually asked — sometimes openly, sometimes with a polite but oily smile — to prove our worth and justify our existence. When it comes from people who I ordinarily would not notice, it rankles.

The truth is, the heavy lifting has always come from individuals: the people who research issues, shape policy, and speak for everyday Internet users. But the institutionalised At-Large in some places system still privileges the institutional shell — the At-Large Structure (ALS) — over the person. NARALO is quite progressive here, largely for the work of people like Alan and Evan.

Look at LACRALO. To give individuals a voice, we created a byzantine framework for “unaffiliated” members. It’s so convoluted that talented recruits take one look and walk away.

If you believe, as I do, that access to the Internet is a fundamental right and that ordinary users deserve representation wherever that right is debated and contested, you know the struggle continues. We in the Caribbean keep showing up. We keep pushing. And, we still have to fight for our place every single day.

Cheers.

Carlton

============================== *Carlton A Samuels*

*Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* =============================

On Fri, 12 Sept 2025 at 00:45, Bill Jouris <b_jouris@yahoo.com> wrote:

...

Hi Carlton,

To say that "It is only recently that participation by an ' *unaffiliated*' person was recognized. And with this, that person is still relegated to second class status for rights and privileges in participation." is, at minimum, an over-generalization.

I personally have never been a member of an ALS. Yet if I have been "relegated to second class status" in the decade plus that I have been involved in ICANN, it has somehow escaped my notice.** For me, being elected by the members of NARALO for a term as their representative on the ALAC didn't *feel* like second class status.

Perhaps other Regional Ogranizations are different in this regard. Or perhaps I simply do not understand what is meant by second class status.

Bill Jouris

** I except, of course, the second class status that anyone outside the GNSO has. That would seem to be a different discussion from how At Large works (that being the only place where ALSs are noticed).

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_Andr...>

On Thu, Sep 11, 2025 at 9:38 AM, Carlton Samuels via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> wrote: _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list -- cpwg@icann.org To unsubscribe send an email to cpwg-leave@icann.org

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Agreed On Wed, Sep 17, 2025 at 5:27 PM Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Alan, +1

however, this might trigger an endless debate about whether if we have multiple votes we should have also a minority vote - something like 2 votes for the majority position, 1 for the minority, out of a total 3 votes

by experience (see also the GNSO Review) touching the vote issue is like opening a can of worms

and anyway I maintain that the voting is a tiny part of the participation

cheers r

On 17.09.2025, at 22:56, Alan Greenberg <greenberg.alan@gmail.com> wrote:

NARALO Voting: The vote of all Indiv. Members is consolidated into a single vote equivalent to that of an ALS - just the same as EURALO as I understand it.

Not relevant to this discussion, but as the number of Individual Members grow, I suspect at some point, we may want to consider more than one vote...

Alan

On Wed, Sep 17, 2025 at 4:43 PM Roberto Gaetano via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> wrote:

...

Hi all

Just for clarification, not to have misunderstandings. I disagree with the sentence:

In Naralo we feel the opposite works.

Actually, the paragraph:

… Anyone can join as an individual member and can be as active as they want. They can run for any position and can join any group or be nominated for any naralo position.

applies also to EURALO Individual Members. As a matter of fact 2 out of the 5 current EURALO Board Members are EURALO Individual Members.

I cannot speak about voting because I have to confess that I do not know how NARALO voting works, and what is the relative voting weight between ALSes and Individuals. But anyway I am a strong supporter of the late Einar Stefferud <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einar_Stefferud>’s statement that what is important is to have a voice, not a vote.

Cheers, Roberto

On 17.09.2025, at 14:54, Judith Hellerstein via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> wrote:

Hi All In Naralo we feel the opposite works. Anyone can join as an individual member and can be as active as they want. They can run for any position and can join any group or be nominated for any naralo position. In voting matters all individual members are part of one bloc and they vote in their group and then the nominated person then votes their slate and choices in the main election

So they have the best of both options

Judith Sent from my iPhone Mobile and What’s app: +12023336517

On Sep 17, 2025, at 8:32 AM, Sergio Salinas Porto via CPWG < cpwg@icann.org> wrote:

 Dear Carlton, I'm astonished to see that you're referring to LACRALO, arguing that it's difficult to join as an individual member, which is far from the truth. I'm not interested in polemics or creating conflicts, but I have heard many people express their opinions about LACRALO without having read the rules of procedure or the attached documents on the subject, and they say without blushing that LACRALO DOES NOT ALLOW INDIVIDUAL USERS TO PARTICIPATE. LACRALO is open to individual members. We adopt the same participation procedure as EURALO (an ALS that brings everyone together). This model, we believe, works and guarantees serious and reliable participation for those who want to participate within an organized, rule-based organizational framework. Best regards.

*Sergio Salinas Porto**Presidente Internauta Argentina - LACRALO/ICANN <https://atlarge.icann.org/ralos/lacralo>**Asociación Argentina de Usuarios de Internet <http://www.internauta.org.ar/>/FeTIA <http://www.fetia.org.ar/>**FUILAC- Federación de Usuarios de Internet de LAC <https://fuilac.org/>**facebook: salinasporto <http://www.facebook.com/salinasporto> **twitter: sergiosalinas <http://twitter.com/sergiosalinas>**Mobi:+54 9 223 5 215819**"Ojalá podamos ser desobedientes, cada vez que recibimos órdenes que humillan nuestra *

* conciencia o violan nuestro sentido común" Eduardo Galeano*

El lun, 15 sept 2025 a las 14:46, Carlton Samuels via CPWG (< cpwg@icann.org>) escribió:

...

Ah Bill. I’ve been working inside ICANN’s At-Large community since 2006, and I’ve seen real progress. But the fight is far from over. We’ve gone from being treated like distant cousins no one wanted to invite to dinner to being grudgingly recognized as part of the family. Sure is something. But in my view not enough.

The “Empowered Community” label sounds impressive, yet resistance to full At-Large participation still runs deep. We are continually asked — sometimes openly, sometimes with a polite but oily smile — to prove our worth and justify our existence. When it comes from people who I ordinarily would not notice, it rankles.

The truth is, the heavy lifting has always come from individuals: the people who research issues, shape policy, and speak for everyday Internet users. But the institutionalised At-Large in some places system still privileges the institutional shell — the At-Large Structure (ALS) — over the person. NARALO is quite progressive here, largely for the work of people like Alan and Evan.

Look at LACRALO. To give individuals a voice, we created a byzantine framework for “unaffiliated” members. It’s so convoluted that talented recruits take one look and walk away.

If you believe, as I do, that access to the Internet is a fundamental right and that ordinary users deserve representation wherever that right is debated and contested, you know the struggle continues. We in the Caribbean keep showing up. We keep pushing. And, we still have to fight for our place every single day.

Cheers.

Carlton

============================== *Carlton A Samuels*

*Mobile: 876-818-1799 Strategy, Process, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround* =============================

On Fri, 12 Sept 2025 at 00:45, Bill Jouris <b_jouris@yahoo.com> wrote:

...

Hi Carlton,

To say that "It is only recently that participation by an ' *unaffiliated*' person was recognized. And with this, that person is still relegated to second class status for rights and privileges in participation." is, at minimum, an over-generalization.

I personally have never been a member of an ALS. Yet if I have been "relegated to second class status" in the decade plus that I have been involved in ICANN, it has somehow escaped my notice.** For me, being elected by the members of NARALO for a term as their representative on the ALAC didn't *feel* like second class status.

Perhaps other Regional Ogranizations are different in this regard. Or perhaps I simply do not understand what is meant by second class status.

Bill Jouris

** I except, of course, the second class status that anyone outside the GNSO has. That would seem to be a different discussion from how At Large works (that being the only place where ALSs are noticed).

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_Andr...>

On Thu, Sep 11, 2025 at 9:38 AM, Carlton Samuels via CPWG <cpwg@icann.org> wrote: _______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list -- cpwg@icann.org To unsubscribe send an email to cpwg-leave@icann.org

_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.

_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list -- cpwg@icann.org To unsubscribe send an email to cpwg-leave@icann.org

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_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list -- cpwg@icann.org To unsubscribe send an email to cpwg-leave@icann.org

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_______________________________________________ CPWG mailing list -- cpwg@icann.org To unsubscribe send an email to cpwg-leave@icann.org

_______________________________________________ By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.