Dear All, Please find the MP3 recording for the Cross-Community Working Group on Use of Country/Territory Names as TLDs meeting held on Monday 30 March 2015 at 19:00 UTC at: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ccwg-unct-30mar15-en.mp3 On page: http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#mar>m<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#mar>ar<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#mar> The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/ Attendees: ccNSO Annebeth Lange, .no Mirjana Tasic, .rs Laura Hutchison, .uk Grigori Saghyan, .am Jacqueline Morris, .tt Ron Sherwood, .vi GNSO Heather Forrest, IPC (Co-Chair) Carlos Raul Guttierez, NPOC Maxim Alzoba, NTAG Colin O'Brien, IPC Susan Payne, IPC At-Large Cheryl Langdon-Orr ISO Jaap Akkerhuis Apologies: Joke Braeken, .eu ICANN staff: Marika Konings Mary Wong Lars Hoffmann Terri Agnew ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives:http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/ctn-crosscom/ Wiki page:https://community.icann.org/x/X7XhAg Thank you. Kind regards, Terri Agnew Adobe Connect chat transcript for Monday 30 March 2015: Terri Agnew:Dear all, welcome to the CCWG on Use of Country/ Territory Names as TLDs on the 30th March 2015 Terri Agnew:Hi, this call will begin in 25 minutes Carlos Raul (GNSO):ok Carlos Raul (GNSO):no audio yet anyhow Carlos Raul (GNSO):thank you terri Terri Agnew:audio is ready now Grigori Saghyan:Hello! Carlos Raul (GNSO):Hello Grigori Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Hello Everybody Carlos Raul (GNSO):Hello Maxim Carlos Raul (GNSO):Question Carlos Raul (GNSO):waht does FAITID mean? Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Faoundation Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Foundation for Assistance for Internet Technologies and Infrastructure Development Carlos Raul (GNSO):ok Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):registry for .moscow / .xn--80adxhks Carlos Raul (GNSO):ok thank you Lars Hoffmann:hey everybody Carlos Raul (GNSO):hello Annebeth Lange:Hi Heather Forrest:Good morning everyone Annebeth Lange:I should say good evening, here it is 9 pm Jaap Akkerhuis:Hi All Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Hi All only in AC for a while while I am also in another call... Jaap Akkerhuis:21:00 here as well Terri Agnew:Welcome Colin O'Brien Heather Forrest:I would like to say a few words about the changed structure since this follows on our last meeting Jaap Akkerhuis:Patagonia is nowehere mentioned Carlos Raul (GNSO):ok Heather Carlos Raul (GNSO):you are next Annebeth Lange:Exactly. Patagonia is not a territory in the ISO 3166 sense Heather Forrest:I won't interrupt this point so let's finish on ISo 3166 first Annebeth Lange:Patagonia is more a region Annebeth Lange:Jaap, I agree Jaap Akkerhuis:Apologies for the old hand Heather Forrest:thank you, Annebeth - glad you are happy with the approach Terri Agnew:Jacqueline Morris has joined Jaap Akkerhuis:I'kk add a definition of the ISO 3166-1 list Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):lower left - we might need to chang Cheryl Langdon-Orr:yes just muted Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):e all to letter -> all two letter Jaap Akkerhuis:There are multiple ISO lists Jaap Akkerhuis:The list also is the base for IDNs Jaap Akkerhuis:It determines what is eligible to goe to the fast track process Laura Hutchison:I agree with Annebeth. The status quo is very well establ.ished. Changing this would create confusion for end users. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):countries do not use digits ... but they might use it in the future Jaap Akkerhuis:No, as longs as you follow ISO 3166, digits are not used Annebeth Lange:I agree, Heather, let us stay with the 2-letter codes for now Jaap Akkerhuis:There are also 4 letter codes in ISO 3166 (part 3) Annebeth Lange:I also agree with Laura, we should try to avoid creating confusion Terri Agnew:Ron Sherwood has joined Annebeth Lange:I agree, our mandate is for 2-letter and 3-letter codes Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Agree also specify Jacqueline Morris:Agreed. Annebeth Lange:That will at least be very controversial, Heather, to go away from the ISO 3166 list Heather Forrest:apologies - that was a bit longwinded! Heather Forrest:I agree, Annebeth, and there may be technical issues Annebeth Lange:Remember what the AGB says about c & t names. Today c & t names and the extensions thereof are not allowed as gTLDs Heather Forrest:To clarify, my point was that in this discussion we should be considering the specific question: What should we do with 2-letter codes on the ISO 3166-2 list. Heather Forrest:In this context it does not make sense to be "moving away from lists" because the very question implicates the ISO 3166-2 list Heather Forrest:As I see it there are only 3 options: Heather Forrest:1. Status quo (reserve the ISO 3166-2 codes Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Exactly Annebeth Heather Forrest:2. Remove reservation Heather Forrest:3. ISO 3166-2 is qualified - not automatially reserved but there is some framework Annebeth Lange:I agree Annebeth Lange:If we can finish our discussion on 2-letter codes first, that would be good Laura Hutchison:I think that the list is from an external source is a good thing Annebeth Lange:As Icann has said before, it is not them decided what is a country or a territory, that is UN Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):reserving 2letter code for eternity is less pain than taking TLD code back ... Annebeth Lange:I agree with Maxim Annebeth Lange:And it will give new countries established in the future the same system as the old countries have today Jaap Akkerhuis:Since ISO taes codes back, maintaining TLDs for aver means serious conflicts in future Annebeth Lange:This is also bridging the digital divied Jacqueline Morris:Maintaining the TLD for eternity or reserving the code for eternity Laura Hutchison:I would agree. The list is managed by an external body that is better placed than ICANN to decide and manage the list. I would agree with Annebeth and Maxim about protection of codes for future countries. Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):and old codes have their own afterlife ... like .su and .uk Jacqueline Morris:I thought it wass reserving for eternity - that allows for reuse, just as ISO does Jacqueline Morris:since they maintain the list Annebeth Lange:That is true, Jacqueline, if a 2-letter code is "retired" and taken back to ISO, it might be given to another country in the future, I think - as a ccTLD. Heather Forrest:Can anyone identify additional benefits and burdens of status quo to add to our list? Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):reuse of TLD after retirement and re-birth by another country ... cound be an issue of the future Heather Forrest:Good point, Maxim - this should go on the list Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):good example Mirjana Tasic:I thing that Iso 3166 2 letter codes which has been used cannot be reused for some period of time ( I think next 50 years? Heather Forrest:Confusion may become less an issue when we have a top-level with 1000 domains Jacqueline Morris:True... Annebeth Lange:But still, it is important that users know what is a ccTLD and what is a gTLD Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):only 5 years before the next use Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):if I am not mistaken Heather Forrest:Annebeth - that line is already blurred by generic use of ccTLDs Heather Forrest:If you want to keep the line clear we have to require that ccTLDs are used only within the country or for country purposes Heather Forrest:Carlos rightfully points out .co and .nu as examples Heather Forrest:.md is another Annebeth Lange:But Jaap, the codes represent names of countries and territories. .no is understood as a representation of Norway, for example Heather Forrest:It would be interesting to do a global survey to see if users at this time differentiate ccTLDs and gTLDs Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):we might not ask for restrictions on cctlds ... limiting their ability to use ccTLD the way they want is well outside of our hands Annebeth Lange:I know that some countries decide to use their ccTLD more commercially, but still, it is the local internat community that has decided that. Carlos Raul (GNSO):Heather, i drafted a survey idea just after our meeting with the gAC Lars Hoffmann:here is a short definiton of the codes. http://www.iso.org/iso/home/standards/country_codes/country_codes_glossary.h... Carlos Raul (GNSO):lars Carlos Raul (GNSO):put it in the text please Carlos Raul (GNSO):in the definition lists Heather Forrest:I mean not a survey sent to governments but to internet users Carlos Raul (GNSO):I never send it out Lars Hoffmann:@carlos- will do that. Heather Forrest:Carlos - I don't disagree with you Jaap Akkerhuis:I have never said that the codes were used for statistical purposes Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):Could we add wodring that possible dissolution of ISO 3166 and replacement with the next standard will cause the re-design of the document in a fast manner Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):? Jaap Akkerhuis:It was in the early drafts and very quickly yanked Heather Forrest:Given that we have the status quo we have to decide what to do with the status quo - and the status quo involves the ISO list Laura Hutchison:Theoretical question but does it matter what the list was developed for? Even if it was developed for statistical use, it is a reconised shorthand that links codes to country names? Jaap Akkerhuis:You wan to refer to the alpha-2 codes in Section 9 of ISO 3166-1 Laura Hutchison:so it serves a purpose for the use to define ccTLDs Heather Forrest:I agree with Laura in terms of our discussion about what t do with status quo Heather Forrest:If we believe we need to deal with other codes not on ISO list then we have to question the reasoning Annebeth Lange:You mean, Heather, that we should stop the possibility for new countries to have their country code? Carlos Raul (GNSO):we need to leave a possibility for new codes Carlos Raul (GNSO):by all means Annebeth Lange:I agree, Heather Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):I agree - we need to avoid future issues with the removal of 2letter potential TLDs Annebeth Lange:We have to deal with the ISO list Heather Forrest:Thank you Carlos - a good summary Heather Forrest:Let's continue to work on the draft Heather Forrest:capture the comments from today Heather Forrest:and keep ging Annebeth Lange:And it is up to the local internet community in each country/territory how they will use their ccTLD, That is not up to us. Heather Forrest:Thank you Lars Heather Forrest:Let's revisit the time zones Heather Forrest:Carlos - this has been good, helpful robust discussion - well led Annebeth Lange:It is OK for me, the time of today. We have to take care of those having it too early in the morning Annebeth Lange:Thank you Carlos, for leading the call. Good work! Carlos Raul (GNSO):thank you all Jaap Akkerhuis:I need to drop off, Bye! Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):some of WG conduct doodle polls for the time of meeting (+-1.5 hours) Carlos Raul (GNSO):thank you jaap Carlos Raul (GNSO):very good work Lars Hoffmann:no problem cheryl. Heather Forrest:Thank you everyone! Susan Payne - Valideus:thanks Cheryl Langdon-Orr:Bye all Thank yu Annebeth Lange:THanks and goodbye Maxim Alzoba (FAITID):thanx Everybody! Lars Hoffmann:thank you - and have a good day/evening/night/morning everyone Ron Sherwood:Thank you all goodbye Mirjana Tasic:Bye Jacqueline Morris:thanks - bye Heather Forrest:Enjoy your holiday, Annebeth