I don't think we are in disagreement Olivier. I just was concerned that we leave the impression that the CWG has to approve the CCWG work stream 1 work. Like the following wording you suggested: "Receive communication from CWG-IANA if accountability requirements identified need further refining". Chuck From: Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond [mailto:ocl@gih.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 4:00 PM To: Gomes, Chuck; jrobinson@afilias.info; cwg-stewardship@icann.org Subject: Re: [CWG-Stewardship] Chart on CWG link with CCWG on Accountability (UPDATED) Jonathan, thanks for the update. I find the updated chart to be an improvement. Chuck mentions that it is [not] "the responsibility of the IANA CWG or its chartering organizations to approve the CCWG work stream 1 except to the extent that they impact our recommendations". I have two comments: 1. Isn't it up to the chartering organisations to approve the Accountability CCWG work? 2. I note that there doesn't appear to be any charter-mandated approval of WS1 work relating to IANA by the IANA Stewardship CWG but would appreciate if there was a way to let WS1 know if they've fulfilled the needs of the IANA Stewardship CWG for its own proposal - so I support the change. Perhaps change the text to: "Receive communication from CWG-IANA if accountability requirements identified need further refining", or insert "IANA" somewhere in this sentence and the previous box too, so as to reduce the "accountability" scope to "IANA CWG related accountability scope". Kindest regards, Olivier On 19/01/2015 22:54, Gomes, Chuck wrote: Jonathan, Most of the changes you made seem useful to me but I don't think it is the responsibility of the IANA CWG or its chartering organizations to approve the CCWG work stream 1 recommendations except to the extent that they impact our recommendations. Our task will be to determine whether the accountability recommendations from work stream 1 satisfy our needs with respect to CWG recommendations; that may or may not involve all of the work stream 1 recommendations. Maybe I am nitpicking; if so let me know. Chuck From: cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org<mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan Robinson Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 4:30 PM To: cwg-stewardship@icann.org<mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org> Subject: Re: [CWG-Stewardship] Chart on CWG link with CCWG on Accountability (UPDATED) All, In reviewing the flow-chart, I felt it could do with some revisions as I have commented on a number of occasions. Most strikingly, the phrase "conditional accountability" has been causing some issues in that it's not clear what this means, especially to the CCWG on Accountability, as was evidenced by reference to it on various occasions during their face-to-face meeting today. What I understand that we mean by "conditional accountability" is that we view our proposal is conditional on specific accountability measures being put in place. Please see below for a summary of the changes which are encapsulated in the updated flow chart. The changes in the attached are as follows: * Changed 'final proposal identifying conditional accountability requirements' to 'final conditional proposal identifying accountability requirements' * Added dotted line and dotted box to indicate that CWG-IANA would communicate to CCWG-Accountability in case it considers that accountability requirements are not met * Updated (in bold) that chartering organisations would consider and approve (or not) work stream 1 recommendations and confirm whether accountability requirements have been met (or not) * Updated (in bold) that the ICG would receive communication from chartering organisations / CWG-IANA As ever, any comments or incremental improvements / developments welcome. Jonathan From: Jonathan Robinson [mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info]<mailto:[mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info]> Sent: 14 January 2015 08:56 To: cwg-stewardship@icann.org<mailto:cwg-stewardship@icann.org> Cc: Lise Fuhr (lise.fuhr@difo.dk<mailto:lise.fuhr@difo.dk>) Subject: Chart on CWG link with CCWG on Accountability All, Please see attached for a draft / proposal for the mechanics and flow of linking the work of this CWG with that of the CCWG on Accountability. As you know, this is a critical area of our work. Accordingly, this chart is provided to facilitate discussion on the subject and to assist us in getting to a common CWG view of the linkage and relationship. Thank-you, Jonathan & Lise Co-chairs _______________________________________________ CWG-Stewardship mailing list CWG-Stewardship@icann.org<mailto:CWG-Stewardship@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship -- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html

Where in the chart does it say (or even leave the impression) that the CWG-IANA approves the WS1 outcome? I don't think it does. It does say that the Chartering Organizations approve WS1, and that is correct and appropriate. I still have problems with this chart, but that's not one of 'em. Greg On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 4:00 PM, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> wrote:

Jonathan,

thanks for the update. I find the updated chart to be an improvement. Chuck mentions that it is [not] "the responsibility of the IANA CWG or its chartering organizations to approve the CCWG work stream 1 except to the extent that they impact our recommendations". I have two comments: 1. Isn't it up to the chartering organisations to approve the Accountability CCWG work? 2. I note that there doesn't appear to be any charter-mandated approval of WS1 work relating to IANA by the IANA Stewardship CWG but would appreciate if there was a way to let WS1 know if they've fulfilled the needs of the IANA Stewardship CWG for its own proposal - so I support the change. Perhaps change the text to: "Receive communication from CWG-IANA if accountability requirements identified need further refining", or insert "IANA" somewhere in this sentence and the previous box too, so as to reduce the "accountability" scope to "IANA CWG related accountability scope".

Kindest regards,

Olivier On 19/01/2015 22:54, Gomes, Chuck wrote:

Jonathan,

Most of the changes you made seem useful to me but I don’t think it is the responsibility of the IANA CWG or its chartering organizations to approve the CCWG work stream 1 recommendations except to the extent that they impact our recommendations. Our task will be to determine whether the accountability recommendations from work stream 1 satisfy our needs with respect to CWG recommendations; that may or may not involve all of the work stream 1 recommendations. Maybe I am nitpicking; if so let me know.

Chuck

*From:* cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org [ mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org <cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *Jonathan Robinson *Sent:* Monday, January 19, 2015 4:30 PM *To:* cwg-stewardship@icann.org *Subject:* Re: [CWG-Stewardship] Chart on CWG link with CCWG on Accountability (UPDATED)

All,

In reviewing the flow-chart, I felt it could do with some revisions as I have commented on a number of occasions.

Most strikingly, the phrase “conditional accountability” has been causing some issues in that it’s not clear what this means, especially to the CCWG on Accountability, as was evidenced by reference to it on various occasions during their face-to-face meeting today. What I understand that we mean by “conditional accountability” is that we view our proposal is conditional on specific accountability measures being put in place.

Please see below for a summary of the changes which are encapsulated in the updated flow chart.

The changes in the attached are as follows:

- Changed ‘final proposal identifying conditional accountability requirements’ to ‘final conditional proposal identifying accountability requirements' - Added dotted line and dotted box to indicate that CWG-IANA would communicate to CCWG-Accountability in case it considers that accountability requirements are not met - Updated (in bold) that chartering organisations would consider and approve *(or not)* work stream 1 recommendations and confirm whether accountability requirements have been met *(or not)* - Updated (in bold) that the ICG would receive communication from chartering organisations / *CWG-IANA*

As ever, any comments or incremental improvements / developments welcome.

Jonathan

*From:* Jonathan Robinson [mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info] *Sent:* 14 January 2015 08:56 *To:* cwg-stewardship@icann.org *Cc:* Lise Fuhr (lise.fuhr@difo.dk) *Subject:* Chart on CWG link with CCWG on Accountability

All,

Please see attached for a draft / proposal for the mechanics and flow of linking the work of this CWG with that of the CCWG on Accountability.

As you know, this is a critical area of our work. Accordingly, this chart is provided to facilitate discussion on the subject and to assist us in getting to a common CWG view of the linkage and relationship.

Thank-you,

Jonathan & Lise

Co-chairs

_______________________________________________ CWG-Stewardship mailing listCWG-Stewardship@icann.orghttps://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship

-- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhDhttp://www.gih.com/ocl.html

_______________________________________________ CWG-Stewardship mailing list CWG-Stewardship@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship

I’ll work on a further revision with Marika to tidy this up / remove any perceived or actual ambiguity. Thanks, Jonathan From: Gomes, Chuck [mailto:cgomes@verisign.com] Sent: 20 January 2015 23:08 To: Greg Shatan; Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond Cc: jrobinson@afilias.info; cwg-stewardship@icann.org Subject: RE: [CWG-Stewardship] Chart on CWG link with CCWG on Accountability (UPDATED) Greg, I think I am the guilty party who concluded that the chart says “approves the WS1 outcome”. I concluded that because the third flowchart box in the Chartering Organizations row says “Consider CWG-IANA feedback and approve (or not) work stream 1 recommendations and confirm whether accountability requirements have been met (or not)”. I took that to mean that the CWG chartering organizations needed to approve (or not) the CCWG work stream 1 recommendations. I clearly agree with the second half of the statement, i.e., “confirm whether accountability requirements have been met (or not)”. But I question whether it is the responsibility of the CWG chartering organizations to approve work stream 1 recommendations as part of the work of the CWG. I assume that the CCWG chartering organizations would need to approve the work stream 1 recommendations and I recognize that the CWG and CCWG chartering organizations have a lot of overlap, but I didn’t think that the first part of the statement in the box applied fully for the CWG. I assumed that the Chartering Organizations row referred to CWG chartering organizations. Chuck From: Greg Shatan [mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 4:58 PM To: Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond Cc: Gomes, Chuck; jrobinson@afilias.info; cwg-stewardship@icann.org Subject: Re: [CWG-Stewardship] Chart on CWG link with CCWG on Accountability (UPDATED) Where in the chart does it say (or even leave the impression) that the CWG-IANA approves the WS1 outcome? I don't think it does. It does say that the Chartering Organizations approve WS1, and that is correct and appropriate. I still have problems with this chart, but that's not one of 'em. Greg On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 4:00 PM, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond <ocl@gih.com> wrote: Jonathan, thanks for the update. I find the updated chart to be an improvement. Chuck mentions that it is [not] "the responsibility of the IANA CWG or its chartering organizations to approve the CCWG work stream 1 except to the extent that they impact our recommendations". I have two comments: 1. Isn't it up to the chartering organisations to approve the Accountability CCWG work? 2. I note that there doesn't appear to be any charter-mandated approval of WS1 work relating to IANA by the IANA Stewardship CWG but would appreciate if there was a way to let WS1 know if they've fulfilled the needs of the IANA Stewardship CWG for its own proposal - so I support the change. Perhaps change the text to: "Receive communication from CWG-IANA if accountability requirements identified need further refining", or insert "IANA" somewhere in this sentence and the previous box too, so as to reduce the "accountability" scope to "IANA CWG related accountability scope". Kindest regards, Olivier On 19/01/2015 22:54, Gomes, Chuck wrote: Jonathan, Most of the changes you made seem useful to me but I don’t think it is the responsibility of the IANA CWG or its chartering organizations to approve the CCWG work stream 1 recommendations except to the extent that they impact our recommendations. Our task will be to determine whether the accountability recommendations from work stream 1 satisfy our needs with respect to CWG recommendations; that may or may not involve all of the work stream 1 recommendations. Maybe I am nitpicking; if so let me know. Chuck From: cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org [mailto:cwg-stewardship-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan Robinson Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 4:30 PM To: cwg-stewardship@icann.org Subject: Re: [CWG-Stewardship] Chart on CWG link with CCWG on Accountability (UPDATED) All, In reviewing the flow-chart, I felt it could do with some revisions as I have commented on a number of occasions. Most strikingly, the phrase “conditional accountability” has been causing some issues in that it’s not clear what this means, especially to the CCWG on Accountability, as was evidenced by reference to it on various occasions during their face-to-face meeting today. What I understand that we mean by “conditional accountability” is that we view our proposal is conditional on specific accountability measures being put in place. Please see below for a summary of the changes which are encapsulated in the updated flow chart. The changes in the attached are as follows: * Changed ‘final proposal identifying conditional accountability requirements’ to ‘final conditional proposal identifying accountability requirements' * Added dotted line and dotted box to indicate that CWG-IANA would communicate to CCWG-Accountability in case it considers that accountability requirements are not met * Updated (in bold) that chartering organisations would consider and approve (or not) work stream 1 recommendations and confirm whether accountability requirements have been met (or not) * Updated (in bold) that the ICG would receive communication from chartering organisations / CWG-IANA As ever, any comments or incremental improvements / developments welcome. Jonathan From: Jonathan Robinson [mailto:jrobinson@afilias.info] Sent: 14 January 2015 08:56 To: cwg-stewardship@icann.org Cc: Lise Fuhr (lise.fuhr@difo.dk) Subject: Chart on CWG link with CCWG on Accountability All, Please see attached for a draft / proposal for the mechanics and flow of linking the work of this CWG with that of the CCWG on Accountability. As you know, this is a critical area of our work. Accordingly, this chart is provided to facilitate discussion on the subject and to assist us in getting to a common CWG view of the linkage and relationship. Thank-you, Jonathan & Lise Co-chairs _______________________________________________ CWG-Stewardship mailing list CWG-Stewardship@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship -- Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD http://www.gih.com/ocl.html _______________________________________________ CWG-Stewardship mailing list CWG-Stewardship@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cwg-stewardship