Mr. Blocher, I follow the discussion intensively. Your concerns are important and the monitoring of the accountability process has to be strengthened. However, I am quite optimistic. Göran Mörby likes to stress transparency and governments, in particular also the Swiss Government, somehow still represented by Thomas Schneider, have experience with responsibility to a community. The model is not perfect but will work if we all are engaged to make it work and improve it. ICANN is an example how international co-operation may be improved, involving stakeholder communities. State-centred co-operation is in crisis for a long time, too slow, not focussed, not success in achieving a strong consensus, weak compliance etc. People deserve something better. I would be happy to discuss in detail your concerns. If you are interested, we can organise a webinar – with others – and hopefully also participants – on this topic. The webinar could be organised by Weblaw in Bern. Best regards, Erich Schweighofer, EURALO Board Member A. Univ.-Prof. Mag. DDr. Erich Schweighofer Arbeitsgruppe Rechtsinformatik Institut für Europarecht, Internationales Recht und Rechtsvergleichung Abteilung für Völkerrecht und Internationale Beziehungen Universität Wien, Rechtswissenschaftliche Fakultät Schottenbastei 10-16/2/5, 1010 Wien AT Mobil: +43 676 6907560 Tel. +43 1 4277 35305, Fax +43 1 4277 9353 Skype: erichs0502 Erich.Schweighofer@univie.ac.at rechtsinformatik.univie.ac.at Bitte um Beiträge IRIS2017 20 Jahre - http://www.univie.ac.at/RI/IRIS17/ Jusletter IT http://jusletter-it.eu<https://owa.univie.ac.at/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx> Von: euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org] Im Auftrag von Roberto Gaetano Gesendet: Dienstag, 04. Oktober 2016 23:44 An: Eberhard Blocher; Remo Hardeman Cc: euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org Betreff: [EURO-Discuss] R: R: Announcement on IANA Stewardship Transition (Rinalia Abdul Rahim) Dear Eberhard, Thanks for the long explanation, I understand much better now. I will provide just a couple of comments. First of all, even before 1. October the NTIA had no power to do changes to the root, like deleting a TLD. Their role was to approve the changes submitted by IANA. In simple words, they could “veto” a change, but not create one. They have never used this “veto” power, at least in the 6 years when I have been on the ICANN Board. I can also tell a little story about this. Paul Twomey, then CEO, and myself, then Vice-Chair of the Board, went to see John Kneuer, the predecessor of Larry Strickling. In the discussion, we pointed out that there was some unhappiness about the “power” that the US Government had on the DNS root. John replied that the NTIA did not oppose even the delegation of .kp to North Korea a couple of months earlier, what else could they do to show that they did not want to interfere with the management of the root? Of course, the problem you raise is real. What if ICANN gets crazy and deletes a record from the root? Formerly, NTIA could have vetoed the change, but now? Well, we have no one who will take action on our behalf. That means, we need to do it ourselves. Not with a letter to Göran, that I agree would be useless, but crating a real threat. With the new rules the community has even the power to remove Directors. But the main element of pressure here is the threat to create an alternate root that does not contain the unwanted change. But I believe that we will never get there. After all, the Board is composed by people selected by the community directly (by the SO/AC) or indirectly (by NomCom, whose representatives are selected by the community anyway). Glad to continue this discussion next February in Vienna, at DomainPulse. Regards, Roberto Da: Eberhard Blocher [mailto:director@ourtanzania.com] Inviato: martedì 4 ottobre 2016 12:35 A: Remo Hardeman Cc: Roberto Gaetano; euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Oggetto: Re: [EURO-Discuss] R: Announcement on IANA Stewardship Transition (Rinalia Abdul Rahim) Hello Remo, Roberto and all, please excuse the perceived lack of explanation. I have personally been to quite a few ICANN meetings, to IGF and (German language) DomainPulse, and similar meetings for more than 10 years, so this is the background of the observation I made. I really thought what I wrote was quite clear, but apparently, judging from what you are writing, this doesn't seem to be the case. The IANA Stewardship Transition has led to IANA administration being de-politicized, and this, to me, is a big step in the wrong direction. This year in February, large parts of our communitiy met in Lausanne, Switzerland, for the annual DomainPulse conference. At that meeting, Thomas Rickert, who is one of the most important people working in the CCWG, described the IANA Stewardship Transition in great detail, since most of it had been thoroughly discussed and was basically agreed on, at the time. I don't think there have been any major changes in recent months. Thomas made it quite clear that what the CCWG had been creating, for ICANN, was a model "United Nations" or a model "country", with all the basic elements in place: Executive, legal and judicial branches. Checks and balances were put in place, even the possibility for the ICANN board to be forced to step down if they should abuse the power bestowed upon them. However, what the CCWG did create was just a "model" country, not the real thing. So basically, in my opinion, there is a lack of transparency, a lack of democracy and a lack of accountability in this ICANN multi-stakeholder modell, which is supposed to govern IANA in future. Just consider what was there before, i.e. up to September 30th. The DoC, i.e. NTIA, had all the power. What would have happened if they had abused this power, for example, deleting a TLD from the root? Something which never happened, of course, but it could have happened. Well, in that case, diplomatic pressure could have been put upon the US Government. For example, imagine the NTIA deleting the .DE zone from the root. In that case, the American Ambassodor to Germany could have been summoned to report to the German Government, and Lawrence E. Strickling would certainly have had to justify his actions. This is a huge amount of power that the German Government, or any government affected, could have applied. Now imagine what would happen in future if ICANN decided to delete any zone from the root. All that would remain to be done would be sending a letter to Göran Marby, or to Steve Crocker. And then, you would have to sit back and hope and pray that one of them will answer the letter of complaint. There is no way any foreign government, or indeed anyone who is not an American citizen, could apply any direct power to Mr Marby or Mr Crocker. ICANN is a private sector company incorporated in California. There is nothing anyone can do about this. Therefore, October 1st, the IANA Stewardship Transition, was a very sad day for the Internet we know and cherish. Eberhard Blocher EAHP KG P.O. Box 30 03 26 50773 Köln Germany http://www.eahp.com Tel. +49-221-9139535 Fax +49-221-2711016 http://cla.tel Am 04.10.2016 11:39, schrieb Remo Hardeman: Hello All, Hello Eberhard, As in all discussions, please explain. In my humble Point of view, I seriously doubt that a more democratic approach would be harmful to "the rest of us" Kind regards, Remo Hardeman 03.10.2016, 20:19, "Roberto Gaetano" <roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com><mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com>: Hi Eberhard. You say: The new IANA Stewardship is good news for all US citizens who "know", and bad news for everybody else, mainly for those not being a US citizen, all over the world Can you give a hint on why do you believe that? In particular, being myself a non-US citizens, I don’t understand how US Government withdrawal from what was only the right of veto to changes to the DNS Root will diminish my power and rights. Cheers, Roberto Da: euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org> [mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:euro-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org>] Per conto di Eberhard Blocher Inviato: domenica 2 ottobre 2016 07:09 A: euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> Oggetto: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Announcement on IANA Stewardship Transition (Rinalia Abdul Rahim) October 1st marks a sad day for the Internet. With IANA Stewardship transitioning from the NTIA to the ICANN multi-stakeholder community, the internet now is less transparent, less democratic and less accountable. IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776 it was declared We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government (...) NTIA being part of the US Government, means, following closely the US Declaration of Independence, that if it had become destructive of anything at all regarding the oversight of the IANA functions, there would have been procedures, established for 240 years, to alter or to abolish it. Now, with the new multi-stakeholder model in place for the oversight of the IANA function, all this has been discarded. How long will it take for the rest of the world to realize this? The new IANA Stewardship is good news for all US citizens who "know", and bad news for everybody else, mainly for those not being a US citizen, all over the world. Eberhard Blocher EAHP KG P.O. Box 30 03 26 50773 Köln Germany http://www.eahp.com Tel. +49-221-9139535<tel:+49-221-9139535> Fax +49-221-2711016<tel:+49-221-2711016> http://cla.tel _______________________________________________ EURO-Discuss mailing list EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org