Re: [EURO-Discuss] Draft agenda and planning for EURALO©s 1st General Assembly in Paris

April 25, 2008

      At 3:54 PM +0100 4/24/08, Jeanette Hofmann wrote:
...
Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:
...
Dear Jeanette:
Thank you very much for your note.
I understand this provision to mean that, as it 
says, ALAC members elected by the region should 
not have to go out of pocket to live up to 
their responsibilities. There are no statutory 
representatives to other ICANN bodies as you 
know.
...and in your understanding the attending of 
face to face EURALO meetings is not among the 
responsibilities of EURALO board meetings?
Nick, this is a very ungenerous reading of the 
paragraph and of the section describing ICANN's 
responsibilities under the MoU.

The board is of course essential to the EURALO's 
activities, it's the representative of the RALO 
members and responsible for all matters of the 
RALO. It makes little sense to invite members of 
the ALS and then not the board. Obviously any 
meetings the ALS hold will be less effective 
without the board present. The presence of the 
EURALO in its region's ICANN meeting will be 
weakened.

As a community EURALO clearly needs time together 
and at the moment you are denying them the 
opportunity. All for the cost of a few inter-city 
train tickets and a few days expenses. It would 
only take a little imagination to make the 
resources available, *or at least to try*.  I 
think it's the view that you don't seem to be 
trying that is most worrying.

Vittorio's comments about other RALOs are not 
relevant. The board isn't a handful of 
individuals, they are people elected by the 
members, volunteers offering their time and 
effort to the At Large.

Best,

Adam
...
...
I hope this is helpful.d
I am not sure your interpretation of this provision is the most obvious one.
jeanette
...
On 24/04/2008 16:08, "Jeanette Hofmann" <jeanette@wzb.eu> wrote:
Hi,
Adam Peake asked me to ask once again how ICANN staff can deny travel
    support to elected EURALO board members in light of the following
    passage of the EURALO MoU (and he also asked me to cc Kieren to ensure
    that he is aware of our problems).
Agreed Responsibilities of ICANN
    4.4 Providing the necessary resources to help support EURALO activities
    subject to ICANN's annual operational and budgetary plans and processes,
    save always that the elected representatives of EURALO to the At-Large
    Advisory Committee and other main ICANN bodies shall always be eligible
    to receive reasonable travel and subsistence such that they are able to
    attend such meetings without EURALO, or the representatives of the same,
    incurring these costs"
"How can they deny this", is what Adam asks.
    At least it is good to see that others outside of our little group share
    our interpretation of things.
jeanette
Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:
    >  Dear Jeanette:
    >
    >  Of course by all means involve other RALOs if you think it is
    helpful 
    >  I hope my previous note shed some light on a number of these issues
    >  where there seems to be some misunderstandings.
    >
    >  On that subject, there is a fairly fundamental misunderstanding in
    your
    >  comment below: The basic unit of At-Large is the ALS, at least at the
    >  present time. All RALOs have established their structures in this way,
    >  including EURALO; ICANN¹s Bylaws have not changed in respect of the
    >  definition of the community and in fact all the RALOs are specifically
    >  empowered in the Bylaws of including individuals in the RALOs. The
    >  reality is they did not decide to do that (with the exception of the
    >  provisions that exist in RALO organising instruments  largely only in
    >  the NARALO).
    >
    >  I hope this makes clear that nothing has changed from ICANN¹s
    side, and
    >  that in fact, RALOs are free to choose to allow direct membership of
    >  individuals  and they have been since the At-Large community became a
    >  part of the ICANN Bylaws years ago.
    >
    >
    >  On 17/04/2008 15:46, "Jeanette Hofmann" <jeanette@wzb.eu> wrote:
    >
    >      Hi Bill,
    >
    >      I very much share your thoughts and I wonder if this discussion
    >      shouldn't be moved to the ALAC list as it concerns other RALOs
    as well.
    >      ICANN apparently moved from a concept of At large membership for
    >      individuals to one that only recognizes organizations. I
    wonder how many
    >      people are actually aware of this and support this move.
    >      jeanette
    >
    >      William Drake wrote:
    >      >  Hi Nick,
    >      >
    >      >  While this conversation has drifted off, I¹d like to share
    a couple of
    >      >  closing thoughts on your decision.
    >      >
    >      >  If as you say it is a matter of clear policy that ³no
    region has an
    >      >  opportunity for non-ALS members to receive travel support
    to attend
    >      >  ICANN meetings,² one would think this could have been made
    clear
    >      when we
    >      >  asked about it repeatedly months ago.  Instead, as Jeanette
    noted, you
    >      >  gave the impression last August that it shouldn¹t be a
    problem.  I
    >      think
    >      >  most people would reasonably read ³One could imagine that the
    >      invitation
    >      >  could be extended to allow those officers to attend as
    well² in that
    >      >  way.  If there is a policy to the contrary, one could not
    have so
    >      imagined.
    >      >
    >      >  Subsequently, a number of times people raised the matter
    with you in
    >      >  ways that indicated we were therefore assuming the
    invitation could be
    >      >  extended, and you never corrected us. On the basis of this
    assumption,
    >      >  people have gone forward and put some time into
    participating (and
    >      would
    >      >  have done much more if we¹d been energized by a F2F meeting in
    >      Warsaw or
    >      >  Geneva) with an eye toward finally being able to convene in
    Paris and
    >      >  really boot things up from there.  Now we find out that a
    chunk of the
    >      >  board is basically to be excluded, not just in Paris, but going
    >      forward.
    >      >   Teleconferencing in is obviously no substitute for
    participating in a
    >      >  first F2F board meeting and a General Assembly,
    particularly if one
    >      >  wants to get more deeply involved in the work, get to know
    the ALS
    >      >  folks, etc.
    >      >
    >      >  More generally, if non-ALS people essentially have no standing,
    >      wouldn¹t
    >      >  the time to make that absolutely clear have been last May,
    before the
    >      >  region elected non-ALS people to the board?  If it had
    been, when
    >      I was
    >      >  approached about getting into this, as a non-ALS person I¹d
    obviously
    >      >  have said there¹s no point and would have saved a lot of
    time since
    >      >  then.  And if the objective is to energize people to get
    engaged in
    >      >  ICANN work, one would think it right to let regions organize
    >      themselves
    >      >  as they need to and elect who they want...
    >      >
    >      >  Anyway, I guess it¹s been a revealing learning process. I of
    >      course will
    >      >  not stand for re-election but wish the next board all the best.
    >      >
    >      >  Cheers,
    >      >
    >      >  Bill
    >      >
    >      >  On 4/14/08 6:20 PM, "Nick Ashton-Hart"
    >      <Nick.Ashton-Hart@icann.org> wrote:
    >      >
    >      >      Sorry if I was unclear  that isn¹t quite what I meant
    and my
    >      >      apologies if what I said led to confusion.
    >      >
    >      >      Basically, no region has an opportunity for non-ALS
    members to
    >      >      receive travel support to attend ICANN meetings.
    Therefore, if
    >      >      EURALO is allowed to send non-ALS representatives to an
    ICANN
    >      >      meeting and other regions are not, those other regions
    receive
    >      >      unequal (lesser) treatment to EURALO.
    >      >
    >      >      The Secretariats have previously discussed in principle the
    >      idea of
    >      >      establishing differential rules by region related to travel
    >      support.
    >      >      The community has not however explored this idea and of
    course any
    >      >      proposal would need to be equitable across regions, and
    also
    >      within
    >      >      regions.
    >      >
    >      >      On 14/04/2008 17:55, "William Drake"
    >      >      <william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch> wrote:
    >      >
    >      >          Hi Nick,
    >      >
    >      >          Thanks for this reply, but I still need help
    understanding the
    >      >          nature of the inequity you see.  Your argument is
    that the
    >      >          boards of other regions would consider that ³it
    would unfairly
    >      >          prejudice² them if the full European board were funded,
    >      just as
    >      >          they are?  They demand that only some of our board
    participate
    >      >          in our board meeting and GA?
    >      >
    >      >          Bill
    >      >
    >      >          On 4/14/08 5:28 PM, "Nick Ashton-Hart"
    >      >          <Nick.Ashton-Hart@icann.org> wrote:
    >      >
    >      >              Actually nothing has changed. As you will note
    from the
    >      >              email below, sent more than 7 months ago, you
    will notice
    >      >              that the statement I made did not say that the
    extension
    >      >              would be provided, only that it was possible.
    I¹m sure
    >      that
    >      >              you all understand that we do need to be
    equitable to all
    >      >              regions.
    >      >
    >      >
    >      >              On 14/04/2008 17:17, "Jeanette Hofmann"
    >      <jeanette@wzb.eu> wrote:
    >      >
    >      >                  Hi Nick,
    >      >
    >      >                  last year, 15.08.2007 16:22
    >      >                  you sent the following mail below to the
    euro-discuss
    >      >                  list. It would be
    >      >                  great if you could you let us know what has
    changed in
    >      >                  the meantime. I
    >      >                  hope you get better soon.
    >      >                  best, jeanette
    >      >
    >      >                  Re: [EURO-Discuss] Funding Request and Draft
    >      Agenda for
    >      >                  EURALO Board meeting
    >      >
    >      >                  ALS' are invited to send a single
    representative to
    >      >                  ICANN meetings when the
    >      >                  region that they are in is provided travel
    support.
    >      >
    >      >                  At this point Europe is the only region
    which has
    >      >                  regional officers who are
    >      >                  not also ALS representatives. One could imagine
    >      that the
    >      >                  invitation could be
    >      >                  extended to allow those officers to attend
    as well.
    >      >
    >      >
    >      >                  On 15/8/07 14:45, "Jeanette Hofmann"
    <jeanette@wzb.eu>
    >      >                  wrote:
    >      >
    >      >                   > > Hi Nick, from what I understand only
    ALS get
    >      >                  financial support for
    >      >                   > > attending ICANN meetings. Is that correct?
    >      >                   > > This would mean that several board
    members would
    >      >                  either not attend
    >      >                   > > regional meetings or pay for themselves.
    >      >                   > > jeanette
    >      >                   > >
    >      >                   > >
    >      >
    >      >                  Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:
    >      >                  >  My apologies for taking a few days to
    respond
    >      to this
    >      >                  email. I¹ve been a
    >      >                  >  bit under the weather (unwell). I¹ve
    taken the
    >      liberty
    >      >                  of copying in
    >      >                  >  Cheryl Langdon-Orr (ALAC chair) and the
    three ALAC
    >      >                  representatives from
    >      >                  >  EURALO given the importance of the email to
    >      planning
    >      >                  overall...
    >      >                  >
    >      >                  >  On the first point, as those of you who have
    >      attended
    >      >                  many ICANN
    >      >                  >  meetings will know, it is pretty much
    impossible to
    >      >                  ensure that all
    >      >                  >  scheduling conflicts can be avoided in
    >      connection with
    >      >                  an ICANN meeting.
    >      >                  >  The Paris meeting is even more
    challenging, as
    >      it is
    >      >                  one day shorter
    >      >                  >  than the usual meeting since it ends on the
    >      Thursday
    >      >                  instead of Friday.
    >      >                  >  Having a EURALO meeting on Sunday
    wouldn¹t work
    >      as the
    >      >                  ALAC are meeting
    >      >                  >  that day  and on that day ALAC is
    meeting with the
    >      >                  GAC at lunch, and
    >      >                  >  the GNSO for breakfast (and members of
    EURALO would
    >      >                  wish to attend these
    >      >                  >  meetings I suspect). Saturday was chosen
    only after
    >      >                  careful review of
    >      >                  >  all options. You should know that there
    are always
    >      >                  issues of the kind
    >      >                  >  you mention with RALO GA planning so
    EURALO is far
    >      >                  from the first to
    >      >                  >  experience issues with scheduling. In
    fact, I
    >      believe
    >      >                  that the last
    >      >                  >  EURALO GA was split over three days due to
    >      scheduling
    >      >                  problems.
    >      >                  >
    >      >                  >  With respect to travel support, the
    situation
    >      is that
    >      >                  each ALS will be
    >      >                  >  invited to send one representative with
    travel
    >      support
    >      >                  provided by
    >      >                  >  ICANN. Since no other region has
    received travel
    >      >                  support on any other
    >      >                  >  basis, it would unfairly prejudice the
    others
    >      to treat
    >      >                  EURALO
    >      >                  >  differently and provide more travel
    support for one
    >      >                  region over any
    >      >                  >  other. I can tell you that ensuring that
    telephonic
    >      >                  remote participation
    >      >                  >  that works well is a priority at the
    Paris ICANN
    >      >                  meeting as internally
    >      >                  >  the discussions about how this has not
    worked well
    >      >                  previously have been
    >      >                  >  taken to a higher level than was
    previously the
    >      case.
    >      >                  >
    >      >                  >  I hope this answers your questions even
    if it
    >      is not
    >      >                  the answer that you
    >      >                  >  might wish to receive.
    >      >                  >
    >      >                  >
    >      >                  >  On 12/04/2008 18:34, "William Drake"
    >      >                  >  <william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch> wrote:
    >      >                  >
    >      >                  >      It sounds like it would have been
    good to check
    >      >                  with people on
    >      >                  >      scheduling
    >      >                  >      before fixing a date.
    >      >                  >
    >      >                  >      Nick, could we please get definitive
    >      clarification
    >      >                  of the funding issue
    >      >                  >      raised today by Vittorio and
    Jeanette, and
    >      >                  previously by Wolf, Karen,
    >      >                  >      Annette, myself, maybe others?
     Somehow I'd
    >      >                  thought it was resolved that
    >      >                  >      there's no problem, but looking
    through my
    >      saved
    >      >                  Euralo message folder I
    >      >                  >      can't find a message that's actually
    from
    >      you to
    >      >                  that effect.
    >      >                  >       People need
    >      >                  >      to know whether and how to plan...
    >      >                  >
    >      >                  >      Thanks
    >      >                  >
    >      >                  >      Bill
    >      >                  >
    >      >                  >
    >      >                  >      On 4/12/08 6:02 PM, "Vittorio Bertola"
    >      >                  <vb@bertola.eu> wrote:
    >      >                  >
    >      >                  >      >  Wolf Ludwig ha scritto:
    >      >                  >      > > To the members of the EURALO board:
    >      >                  >      > >
    >      >                  >      > > Dear all
    >      >                  >      > >
    >      >                  >      > > According to our by-laws, we are
    >      supposed to
    >      >                  have our first GA this
    >      >                  >      > > year and the coming 32nd
    International
    >      Public
    >      >                  Meeting of ICANN in
    >      >                  >      > > Paris (from 22 to 26 June 08)
    offers an
    >      almost
    >      >                  perfect opportunity
    >      >                  >      > > for that. After a short discussion I
    >      had with
    >      >                  Nick he already
    >      >                  >      > > reserved Saturday, 21 June 08,
    all day
    >      for us.
    >      >                  Thanks Nick!
    >      >                  >      >
    >      >                  >      >  I still don't know whether I'll get
    >      funding for
    >      >                  Paris, but in any
    >      >                  >      case I
    >      >                  >      >  won't be able to get to Paris
    before the
    >      >                  morning of the 22nd.
    >      >                  >      >  Ciao,
    >      >                  >
    >      >                  >
    >      >                  >
    >      >                  >
    >      >                  >  --
    >      >                  >
    >      >                  >  Regards,
    >      >                  >
    >      >                  >  Nick Ashton-Hart
    >      >                  >  Director for At-Large
    >      >                  >  Internet Corporation for Assigned Names
    and Numbers
    >      >                  (ICANN)
    >      >                  >  Main Tel: +33 (450) 40 46 88
    >      >                  >  USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460
    >      >                  >  Fax: +41 (22) 594-85-44
    >      >                  >  Mobile: +41 (79) 595 54-68
    >      >                  >  email: nick.ashton-hart@icann.org
    >      >                  >  Win IM: ashtonhart@hotmail.com / AIM/iSight:
    >      >                  nashtonhart@mac.com /
    >      >                  >  Skype: nashtonhart
    >      >                  >  Online Bio:
     https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart
    >      >
    >      >
    >      >
    >      >
             ***********************************************************
    >      >          William J. Drake
    >      >          Director, Project on the Information
    >      >            Revolution and Global Governance/PSIO
    >      >          Graduate Institute of International and
    >      >            Development Studies
    >      >          Geneva, Switzerland
    >      >          william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch
    >      >
             ***********************************************************
    >      >
    >      >
    >      >
    >      >
    >      >  ***********************************************************
    >      >  William J. Drake
    >      >  Director, Project on the Information
    >      >    Revolution and Global Governance/PSIO
    >      >  Graduate Institute of International and
    >      >    Development Studies
    >      >  Geneva, Switzerland
    >      >  william.drake@graduateinstitute.ch
    >      >  ***********************************************************
    >      >
    >
    >
    >  --
    >
    >  Regards,
    >
    >  Nick Ashton-Hart
    >  Director for At-Large
    >  Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
    >  Main Tel: +33 (450) 40 46 88
    >  USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460
    >  Fax: +41 (22) 594-85-44
    >  Mobile: +41 (79) 595 54-68
    >  email: nick.ashton-hart@icann.org
    >  Win IM: ashtonhart@hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart@mac.com /
    >  Skype: nashtonhart
    >  Online Bio:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart
--
Regards,
Nick Ashton-Hart
Director for At-Large
Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
Main Tel: +33 (450) 40 46 88
USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460
Fax: +41 (22) 594-85-44
Mobile: +41 (79) 595 54-68
email: nick.ashton-hart@icann.org
Win IM: ashtonhart@hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: 
nashtonhart@mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart
Online Bio:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart

Re: [EURO-Discuss] Draft agenda and planning for EURALO©s 1st General Assembly in Paris

Adam Peake

Re: [EURO-Discuss] Draft agenda and planning for EURALO©s 1st General Assembly in Paris