Dear All, Please find the MP3 recording for IGO-INGO Access to Curative Rights Protection Mechanisms Working Group call on Wednesday, 10 June 2015 at 1600 UTC at: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-crp-access-10jun15-en.mp3<http://mailer.samanage.com/wf/click?upn=NrFWbrBstcrPWP369qgbqlXiSKeL20xnUXzI03ZqpsvAYdkMhrgWmNqMrAAh1K9Bx60Ig4Rn4i8MLteTtNC-2BnKISwgKHxY8kup4i3VODRe4-3D_QuA5zZR9ZZ7J1F2FeF-2FOsgm1hgIDcBrAX2P7Ezxmql7ckJc4ios1-2BxObAoz2rzLSI3c4QB1NGo7bw7XrBjpRCbz74w4vzk48UxZMFoBBQBQaQ0ePdiOjdJ30sQNHkokOf-2F2p-2FBvMgKvMhzp-2B4u8fP-2BRrSytHe2KCf2HpQmtSbpezMgNTUG57PiORAPesOotpHA-2BC4pSmXJRsVmpbNaLqzm0xVOlKz4fo1Xk-2BVoH8HKfirrj-2BVPWuCXbRY4H-2F2EhHdVlqE3rJBUEEiierjR6TmM50GFu3bb1UQuBoVrg79YCa0AkdSP3GfW4BRvV7ufcmLb-2BhwBCncHpjNWCpl7nfmoRjry9AxwsWYBGrZOqI61TzLGhtDI6zQ1gkhkepWGaBggJyv9BPtupltHDHKmmrE-2FhgL07snTNPAPCbMJJ87EO4zaVFO6dV7VN8Uq2CqceriLJzkoDeI9Gfvn6v8rcIRaiHLnkWTPllkX6ZxB3Ow3lWL7LxXWdcXz80ioH0AHYR> On page: <http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#mar><http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#apr><http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#may>http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#jun><http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#may>j<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#jun>un<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#jun> The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/ Attendees: George Kirikos - Individual Petter Rindforth – IPC Phil Corwin – BC Val Sherman - IPC Jim Bikoff – IPC Paul Tattersfield - Individual Osvaldo Novoa - NCUC Mason Cole – RySG Kathy Kleiman - NCUC Lori Schulman – IPC Rudi Vansnick – NPOC Poncelet Illeleji - NPOC Apologies: Mike Rodenbaugh ICANN staff: Mary Wong Steve Chan Julia Charvolen Nathalie Peregrine ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives:http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo-crp/ Wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/97rhAg Thank you. Kind regards, Nathalie ------------------------------- Adobe Connect chat transcript for Wednesday, 10 June 2015: Nathalie Peregrine:Dear all, welcome to the IGO-INGO Curative Rights Protection PDP WG Meeting on the 10 June 2015 George Kirikos:Hello. George Kirikos:I noticed Charvolen.com is unregistered. Julia should grab it. George Kirikos:At under $15/yr, it's a no-brainer. George Kirikos:Although, I was unsuccessful in convincing Petter to get his surname .com. :) Julia Charvolen::) Petter Rindforth:Well, at least it is a registered trademark :-) Nathalie Peregrine:Rudi Vansnick has joined the call Nathalie Peregrine:Osvaldo Novoa has also joined Osvaldo Novoa:Hello all Mary Wong:Hello Osvaldo! Mary Wong:Welcome also to Rudi Rudi Vansnick:thanks ... hello all Rudi Vansnick:joining here as NPOC member Kathy:Hi All, sorry to be a little late George Kirikos:The mailing list lags a bit, so if Jim emailed, it might take an hour to appear to members. Rudi Vansnick:i've been reading through the document and from a point of view of iNGO's (NPOC => NGOs) i do not see any objection to the letter Lori Schulman:I am on. Thanks. Rudi Vansnick:would this also apply to INGO's ? George Kirikos:No, we've stopped talking about INGOs. Lori Schulman:passcode? George Kirikos:"IGO" for phonecall. Mary Wong:@Lori, IGO Lori Schulman:got it. George Kirikos:1-866-692-5726 for US/Canada callers. Lori Schulman:I used CRP. Slow day. Lori Schulman:@Rudy - immunity issues do not appy to NGO's they are governed by different legal structures Rudi Vansnick:@Lori : thanks for clarification Rudi Vansnick:@Lori : could it be that an IGO can overrule a decision on an INGO ? George Kirikos:IGOs aren't forced to use the UDRP. It's a voluntary tool for them. They could still use whatever tools the law allows. Petter Rindforth:As everybody else George Kirikos:So, the IGOs still have the benefit of whatever the existing law is, in terms of enforcement mechanisms. If they opt not to use that extra tool (with the rights/obligations that tool entails), they're not prejudiced in any way. Lori Schulman:@ Rudy - short answer -- no. Rudi Vansnick:@George: in some countries laws are to weak to protect their rights ... so i would consider the UDRP being a real good solution George Kirikos:Just like copyright holders can't use the UDRP -- they're not prejudiced by not being able to use the UDRP, for their legal scenarios. Mary Wong:Like anyone else, an IGO that seeks redress in a national court would have to see which rights under that national law may have been allegedly infringed, e.g. they may need to have a national TM right in that country. George Kirikos:Yes, Mary. So, the UDRP isn't meant to grant rightsholders more relief than national laws permit. George Kirikos:So, if they couldn't find relief in the national courts, the UDRP should not be providing *more* relief. Mary Wong:Yes, it is an optional alternative to litigation for any complainant (whether an IGO or not). Mary Wong:i.e. a procedure that allows enforcement of an exisitng legal right, not a new or additional one. George Kirikos:Right. UDRP is intended to be a short-cut to get the same relief they'd have received in courts. George Kirikos:There are all kinds of injustices in the world that the courts don't handle. It's not our job to handle every injustice in the world. Petter Rindforth:And the UDRP is also meant for "easy" disputes, where there is no need to meet the parties, to make further investigations or for the Panel to make legal conclusions from business agreements, etc George Kirikos:I think a clean version of Paul's document will be much shorter (right now it appears long, due to the visible edits). George Kirikos:Right, Petter. Kathy:I like the vast majority of Paul's changes. What I don't understand is his deletion of Question 2, which I thought was valuable: 2. To the best of your knowledge, how do IGOs handle standard contractual clauses (e.g. in software or services agreements) concerning submission to a particular jurisdiction? Is it common practice, for example, for IGOs to insist on binding arbitration instead? George Kirikos:Kathy: it's still there, see #4. Petter Rindforth:@Kathy: I agree with that George Kirikos:(just moved down a bit) George Kirikos:(we're on page 6 of the PDF) Kathy:@George, tx! Mary Wong:Thanks, Phil Lori Schulman:I was thinking maybe we could say "rights in source identifiers" Mary Wong:We can't (for purposes of this PDP) assume that all qualifying IGOs (under 6ter) would have national TMs, though. Mary Wong:@Lori, that may be better George Kirikos:Just like they submit to a jurisdiction when they register a domain name! George Kirikos:(every registrar agreement) George Kirikos:Except for maybe .int domains. :-) Petter Rindforth:And trademarks for the UDRP does not have to be registered, that may "only" be well-known George Kirikos:June 30 Lori Schulman:Yes, common law rights are recognized in UDRP George Kirikos:Should ICANN issue a public RFP, so we can get applications for this? George Kirikos:(that would also publicize things in a more formal manner) Lori Schulman:That was my question, how do we find these people? Mary Wong:@George, we can check but I'm not sure this is how we normally deal with this sort of treques Lori Schulman:I have a colleague who is an expert in international law and arbitration. He is semiretired George Kirikos:Thanks Mary and Phil. Mary Wong:@Lori, I have been reaching out to law professors Lori Schulman:I was going to offer to reach out Mary Wong:@Lori, I'll touch base with you after this? Lori Schulman:OK Lori Schulman:I am back on the phone. George Kirikos:+1 Jim Petter Rindforth:Making it easy for us ;-) Kathy:And reminder of the concern of the request for a permanent TM notification... Kathy:by the IGOs Mary Wong:Thanks, Jim ... :) George Kirikos:I think we can draw adverse inferences from their lack of responses. Lori Schulman:I agree. The silence is deafening. George Kirikos:It's like a witness asked a "hard" question in a cross-examination, and refusing to answer. Kathy:Tx Phil, Tx Petter, tx All! George Kirikos:i.e. the true facts in their control, which would answer our questions, are unfavourable to their position, so they'd rather not provide those facts. George Kirikos:Have a nice day, everyone. Bye. Rudi Vansnick:bye have a nice day, see you in BA Lori Schulman:Hasta La Vista!