Dear All, There will be no IGO call next week on Wednesday 6th May 2015 Please find the MP3 recording for IGO-INGO Access to Curative Rights Protection Mechanisms Working Group call on Wednesday, 29 April 2015 at 1600 UTC at: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-29apr15-en.mp3 On page: <http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#mar>http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#a<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#apr>pr<http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#apr> The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/ Attendees: George Kirikos - Individual Petter Rindforth – IPC Phil Corwin – BC Val Sherman - IPC Jay Chapman – Individual Jim Bikoff – IPC Kathy Kleiman - NCUC Paul Keating - NCUC Kristine Dorrain- Individual David Maher - RySG Mason Cole – RySG Paul Tattersfield - Individual Lori Schulman - IPC Gary Campbell - GAC David Heasley - IPC Apologies: Osvaldo Novoa - NCUC ICANN staff: Mary Wong Steve Chan Berry Cobb Nathalie Peregrine ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives:http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo-crp/ Wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/97rhAg Thank you. Kind regards, Nathalie ------------------------------- Adobe Connect chat transcript for Wednesday, 29 April 2015: Nathalie Peregrine:Dear all, welcome to the IGO-INGO Curative Rights Protection PDP WG Meeting on the 29 April 2015 George Kirikos:Hello. Mary Wong:Hello George, hello Petter! George Kirikos:Hi Mary, Petter and Nathalie. Anything new and exciting in your worlds? Mary Wong:I think that depends on what you'd consider "new and exciting"! :) George Kirikos:I just finished my quaterly bookkeeping -- 4 hours of hell. :) George Kirikos:*quarterly, even Mary Wong:That sounds scary! Mary Wong:(which may be exciting to some, I suppose :)) George Kirikos:lol George Kirikos:Hi David. George Kirikos:2 minutes to go. George Kirikos:Here they come.....hi Jay and Mason. Mason Cole:hi all Jay Chapman:Hi George & everyone George Kirikos:Welcome Paul. Paul Tattersfield:Hi All Paul Tattersfield:Hi George Nathalie Peregrine:pkease all mute phones and mics s we are getting ane cho Nathalie Peregrine:*an echo Paul Keating:Hello everyone George Kirikos:It's strange, because it doesn't show the icon of the active speaker. Paul Keating:There is a very bad echo George Kirikos:Hi Paul K (2 Pauls in da house). Paul Keating:Haa! Nathalie Peregrine:the echo is being caused by a phone line, not by an AC MIC Paul Keating:That person had a very bad echo Paul Tattersfield:I'm afraid I'm no the Tall one val sherman:Jim Bikoff and David Heasley also on audio bridge Nathalie Peregrine:noted, thanks val Paul Keating:congrats! George Kirikos:It became the reserved list. Mary Wong:@Phil, that's correct. The GAC list of IGOs was received by ICANN in spring 2013 George Kirikos:https://www.icann.org/sites/default/files/packages/reserved-names/ReservedNa... has the list, as we know. Lori Schulman:NGPC? Lori Schulman:I don't know this acronym Mary Wong:New gTLD Program Committee (a Board Committee) Lori Schulman:got it. Thanks. Lori Schulman:Not sure. Will type question. Lori Schulman:New technology. Paul Keating:Lori is following the Paul Keating approach to participation....... Paul Keating::-) Nathalie Peregrine:Lori, your phone line has dropped, you can activiate your mic by clicking on the telephone icon at the top of the AC toolbar Lori Schulman:Is this suggestion for the list the same thing that is the subject of the new GAC letter that asks for a database. Mary Wong:@Lori, which new letter? Lori Schulman:will paste link. I just saw it this morning. Lori Schulman:https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/schneider-to-crocke-23a... Mary Wong:There's a 23 April letter regarding country and territory names Lori Schulman:yes, I may be confusing this but would it apply to IGO's as well? Paul Keating:like WHOis? Lori Schulman:that new letter? Mary Wong:@Lori, I don't believe so Lori Schulman:ok. Lori Schulman:It seems like it is the similar suggestion Kristine Dorrain-NAF:Lori, I think I hear you typing...is your audio prolem fixed? :) Lori Schulman:guess so. :) Paul Keating:I think it is included by reference. Kathy:I thought our charter included acronyms Lori Schulman:can you still hear typing Kristine? Lori Schulman:Hi Kathy, I thought our charter included acronyms too. Mary Wong:All, although the express language in the Charter speaks generally of "access to curative rights by IGOs and INGOs", the background information including the concerns previously stated by the GAC and IGOs point to the inclusion of acronyms - since at the second level that is the primary problem for IGOs. Paul Keating:@ Phil, can you please review briefly the "interim protections" that are in place?? Paul Keating:Thank you Mary and Phil Mary Wong:No worries! Paul Tattersfield:means IGO's have more protection than sovereign states Mary Wong:English v American style, Phil :) Paul Keating:@Phil or Jim, what can we do to move forward the legal advice issue on Sov Imm.?? Paul Keating:my question Paul Keating:@Mary can we obtain permission to spend money on an attorney? George Kirikos:It seems to be functional immunity, as we discussed before....although, country-by-country differences, depending on their treaties, etc. Lori Schulman:If there is no money, can we get a law school team to do it? Its a great question. George Kirikos:We shouldn't create new law....should be the lowest common denominator. Lori Schulman:Maybe reach out to the academics in our group? George Kirikos:Jones Day gets $4MM+/yr.... George Kirikos:We already had that other outside letter before, which didn't prove too useful. Paul Keating:But the question should be formed by the group and not ICANN staff (no offence Mary) Mary Wong:None taken, Paul Mary Wong:We're just finding out the process and timing Lori Schulman:yup, I agree Jones Day would not be a good choice for this. Mary Wong:We're thinking maybe a public international law professor of known standing in the international law community Lori Schulman:yes, Mary, that is where I was heading too. Lori Schulman:This is a tough question to answer. Lori Schulman:I imagine very complex and nuanced. Paul Keating:@Mary, I would like to have that name submitted to the WG and vetted prior to engagement. I do not feel we should waste our time such as happened previously. George Kirikos:The law is dynamic, not static, too. George Kirikos:So, it's a moving target. Mary Wong:From the initial staff research, the question of IGO privileges and immunities regarding jurisdiction is not a single, simple answer. Mary Wong:As George notes, and as our briefing note mentions, it varies state to state Paul Tattersfield:international economics professor advice has not always been the best route for ICANN in the past Lori Schulman:But we have to come down somewhere. George Kirikos:But, we've seen selected precedents already, to get a sense of the range of possibilities out there. Lori Schulman:This is not economics. Lori Schulman:I have a colleague here in DC that might qualify. He is a retired International Law expert and does arbritation with governments "for fun" Paul Tattersfield:I appreciate that it may be more black and white but there are still areas of opinion Lori Schulman:He might even work pro bono. Paul Keating:Changing the International Law of Sovereign Immunity ...www.vanderbilt.edu/jotl/manage/wp-content/.../Damrosch-pdf.pdfby LF Damrosch - Cited by 5 - Related articlesHamilton Fish Professor of International Law and Diplomacy and Henry L. ... A bit of confusion about the “law” in sovereign immunity law comes from language ... George Kirikos:Only a tiny, tiny fraction of cases ever get appealed. Mary Wong:There's also a distinction between state sovereign immunity and IGO immunity George Kirikos:So, in a sense, we're bogged down trying to satisfy 100% of scenarios, where practically 99% of scenarios are handled. Lori Schulman:I can do that. No problem. Paul Tattersfield:do you have the link Paul the one you supplied doesn't work here Mary Wong:As noted by some govts in the WIPO discussions, IGOs should not get greater immunity than states (which are sovereign) George Kirikos:*UDRP cases, of course. Paul Keating:@George, in all fairness hurricanes only occur infrequently but that fact does not help when it has destroyed your home :-) Petter Rindforth:Thanks, Lori Paul Keating:thank you everyone George Kirikos:Bye all. Jay Chapman:goodbye Kathy:bye all! Paul Tattersfield:do you have the vanderbilt.edu link Paul? Petter Rindforth:Bye!