Dear All, Please find the attendance and MP3 recording along with the AC recording and chat below for the IGO-INGO Curative Rights Protection PDP WG Meeting held on Thursday, 25 May 2017 at 16:00 UTC. Mp3: https://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-crp-pdp-25may17-en.mp3 <https://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-igo-ingo-crp-pdp-25may17-en.mp3> AC Recording: https://participate.icann.org/p4b9arbzl24/ <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__audio.icann.org_gnso_gns...> On page: https://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar[gnso.icann.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_calendar&d=DwMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=Fi0J3ueomxlXt5IfYn-LO7uXv0ucF9HUJN6fdFxFYlc&s=SYpUa4qk5D-dORFtmGZv1ORQ8SSy3UqI1phUrvht0tU&e=> The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gnso.icann.org_en_group-2Dactivities_calendar-23nov&d=DQMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=wBBn3Ar2_mvUeGcM8rpOAyluUFEJFG5lASQ-cAccI2k&s=3BfiwO43tzwlrIbIyBY4Q-14zsFQCX518fLLR8GWR7I&e=> Attendees: George Kirikos – Individual Jay Chapman – Individual Paul Tattersfield – Individual Petter Rindforth – IPC (co-chair) Mason Cole – RySG Osvaldo Novoa - ISPCP David Maher - RySG Apologies: Phil Corwin – BC (co-chair) Mary Wong - staff ICANN staff: Steve Chan Dennis Chang Michelle DeSmyter ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo-crp/ Wiki Agenda page: https://community.icann.org/x/RhPfAw Thank you. Kind regards, Michelle ------------------------------- Adobe Connect chat transcript for Thursday, 25 May 2017 Michelle DeSmyter:Welcome to the IGO-INGO Access to Curative Rights Protection Mechanisms Working Group call on Thursday, 25 May 2017 at 16:00 UTC for 90 minutes. Michelle DeSmyter:Meeting agenda page: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_R... George Kirikos:Hi folks. Petter Rindforth:Hi George George Kirikos:Hi Petter. Paul Tattersfield:Hi George, Petter George Kirikos:Hi Paul. George Kirikos:What's a quorum? 5? Osvaldo Novoa:Hello all George Kirikos:Hi Osvaldo. Steve Chan:Hi George, it's up to chair discretion. George Kirikos:We have 5 now. Welcome, Mason. Steve Chan:At least we have 4 + chair now though! Mason Cole:Greetings George Kirikos:Hi again. George Kirikos:Adobe totally died on me. George Kirikos:I sent some of my thoughts on the discussion document to the mailing list, see: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-igo-ingo-crp/2017-May/000742.html Steve Chan:@Petter, It's available on the Wiki - I can provide a link George Kirikos:Certainty as to applicable law --- not certainty as to the result, though. George Kirikos:(law and venue) Steve Chan:You can find a number of background documents on the Wiki here: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_dis... Steve Chan:The specific WIPO document is here: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_dow... Jay Chapman:reasonable, legitimate points, George. Paul Tattersfield:intersting points George, thanks for explaining them George Kirikos:New, in terms of the finality, since Option 1 is a final decision in court, vs. Option 2 is a final decision with less transparency. Jay Chapman:Would option 2 have the effect of preventing a registrant from going to a court of mutual prior to the rendering of a UDRP decision? George Kirikos:Good point, Jay. Paul Tattersfield:Perhaps we could have the best of both options, go with option 1 and recommend the RPM WG looks at offering an arbitration option only with agreement from both parties for all domain names not just IGO names? George Kirikos:@Paul: no need for a policy on that, as parties can always voluntarily decide to do so. Jay Chapman:Even if the answer to my question is "No", wouldn't the practical effect of option 2 be encouraging a court to punt? Jay Chapman:That's a valid point as well, George. Paul Tattersfield:@george in the us yes but not in the uk for example George Kirikos:Where is the IGO special procedure created by the USPTO?? George Kirikos:I'm sure TM holders want all the protections of the courts, and wouldn't agree to procedural changes that reduce their rights simply because an opponent is an IGO. Paul Tattersfield:6ter listing? George Kirikos:(i.e if an IGO wanted to challenge an issued TM in the US, for example) Paul Tattersfield:in rem even? Jay Chapman:just for clarification, how many people are in the "Full" wg? George Kirikos:28: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_pag... Steve Chan:Jay, the membership list is here: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_pag... George Kirikos:Lots of inactive members. Jay Chapman:We've averaged less than 10 for the past several months on the calls Paul Tattersfield:https://community.icann.org/display/gnsoicrpmpdp/Attendance+Records George Kirikos:Weight the voting by attendance, perhaps. :-) Jay Chapman:thx Paul, Steve George Kirikos:That's a good idea. George Kirikos:"Registration OR use" vs. "AND", but also the rest of the terms on page 6 (section 4(a)) reflect gaming by IGOs, to rewrite the legal test to make it easier for them to win. George Kirikos:And the last part, "must prove that ANY of the elements" instead of ALL elements, etc. Paul Tattersfield:@george strange how indpendent people would try and make those extra changes along wih the main issues George Kirikos:Page 34, very last point, also raises the point of treating new gTLDs differently from existing domain names. George Kirikos:That's what they claim, but the small group proposal was also one-sided. George Kirikos:We saw their small group proposal. Paul Tattersfield:but the small group report was exparte this was a staff draft George Kirikos:We already know IGOs have used the existing UDRP successfully. Just need to educate them more, on their existing options. George Kirikos:@Paul: yes, was referencing Petter's statement that the IGOs only wanted a tweak of the UDRP. But, their small group report was more than a tweak. George Kirikos:I wrote about the 2007 staff report back in 2007, see CircleID blog post: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.circleid.com_posts_7... George Kirikos:Recall (as pointed out in the comments to that blog post) all the fear-mongering about the .biz TLD raised by the Bank for International Settlements. George Kirikos:Too much FUD created by IGOs. George Kirikos:We can use the small group proposal, perhaps? George Kirikos:Other mailing list, with IGOs: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/discussion-igo-rc/2017-May/date.html Steve Chan:@Petter, I tried to adjust the action item to take into account your comments just now. Please let know if I've not captured it correctly. Steve Chan:Nothing from me Petter, thanks Osvaldo Novoa:Thank you and Bye George Kirikos:Bye folks! Paul Tattersfield:thanks Petter, All, bye Jay Chapman:Thanks, all