Hi Paul, I agree that all such identification lists need to be updated continuously. However, it is then up to those that provides identification to make those updates. The more normal and simple example of that is all domain owners Whois identification. / Petter --  Petter Rindforth, LL M Fenix Legal KB Stureplan 4c, 4tr 114 35 Stockholm Sweden Fax: +46(0)8-4631010 Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360 E-mail: petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu www.fenixlegal.eu NOTICE This e-mail message is intended solely for the individual or individuals to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify us by return e-mail. Fenix Legal KB, Sweden, www.fenixlegal.eu Thank you 24 januari 2018 12:41:17 +01:00, skrev Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com>:

Thank you Mary for confirming the history, that is helpful.

I think it shows the dangers of ICANN building policy based on the principle of relying on third party lists especially ones subject to regular revision over time.

Gong (2011) Karp (2012) Mosaic (2013) Witness (2013) Rare (2015) Restored (2016)

I think it also demonstrates how bad policy can evolve out of trying to create quick fix solutions only perceived as necessary as a result of other unrelated flawed approaches.

Not good – someone should have been on top of this.

Best regards,

Paul.

On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 2:20 AM, Mary Wong <<mary.wong@icann.org>> wrote:

...

Hello Paul and everyone,

The list of INGOs is that of the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), and the GNSO PDP recommendation was to use the ECOSOC list. As such, it is not up to ICANN to make changes to that list; additions, modifications and deletions are determined under the applicable UN rules for organizations obtaining or maintaining recognition (e.g. general or consultative status) with ECOSOC. The staff understanding is that any updates needing to be made to the ICANN list as a result of changes to the ECOSOC list will be handled through the UN’s Department of Economic and Social Affairs (DESA).

Cheers Mary

From:Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <<gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <<gpmgroup@gmail.com>> Date:Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 14:03 To:"gnso-igo-ingo-." <<gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org>> Subject:[Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions?

Is the recently published INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? https://www.icann.org/sites/default/files/packages/reserved-names/ingo-identifier-list.xml[icann.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_sites_default_files_packages_reserved-2Dnames_ingo-2Didentifier-2Dlist.xml&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=ZHelugwDlnz3X92N6KrDyyvuK2Rzt6IFt7uLvTr9ZM4&s=Nhzg0poKNZr6aRnDjt917fA-WZ0KJ58OTvEXOmsXMuk&e=>A cursory look shows names like

gong karp mosaic rare restored witness

Gong is an acronym for Gradani organizirano nadgledaju glasan

Karp is an acronym for The Korean Association of Retired Persons

Moisaic is a branding for More Mosaic NGO & Mosaic International NGO

Including rare, restored & witness doesn't sit well with the principal of coexistence.

Best regards,

Paul.

---

Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp>

+1 Paul Sincerely, Jay Chapman On Jan 24, 2018 5:41 AM, "Paul Tattersfield" <gpmgroup@gmail.com> wrote: Thank you Mary for confirming the history, that is helpful. I think it shows the dangers of ICANN building policy based on the principle of relying on third party lists especially ones subject to regular revision over time. Gong (2011) Karp (2012) Mosaic (2013) Witness (2013) Rare (2015) Restored (2016) I think it also demonstrates how bad policy can evolve out of trying to create quick fix solutions only perceived as necessary as a result of other unrelated flawed approaches. Not good – someone should have been on top of this. Best regards, Paul. On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 2:20 AM, Mary Wong <mary.wong@icann.org> wrote:

Hello Paul and everyone,

The list of INGOs is that of the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), and the GNSO PDP recommendation was to use the ECOSOC list. As such, it is not up to ICANN to make changes to that list; additions, modifications and deletions are determined under the applicable UN rules for organizations obtaining or maintaining recognition (e.g. general or consultative status) with ECOSOC. The staff understanding is that any updates needing to be made to the ICANN list as a result of changes to the ECOSOC list will be handled through the UN’s Department of Economic and Social Affairs (DESA).

Cheers

Mary

*From: *Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com> *Date: *Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 14:03 *To: *"gnso-igo-ingo-." <gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> *Subject: *[Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions?

Is the recently published INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? https://www.icann.org/sites/default/files/packages/reserved- names/ingo-identifier-list.xml[icann.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_sites_def...>

A cursory look shows names like

gong karp mosaic rare restored witness

Gong is an acronym for Gradani organizirano nadgledaju glasan

Karp is an acronym for The Korean Association of Retired Persons

Moisaic is a branding for More Mosaic NGO & Mosaic International NGO

Including rare, restored & witness doesn't sit well with the principal of coexistence.

Best regards,

Paul.

_______________________________________________ Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp

Petter, This is basic stuff, even without George’s comments, I’m amazed no one picked it up, but with George taking the time to comment it’s unbelievable! How can the IRT team get this fixed? Does it need to go back to the GNSO? Best regards, Paul On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 1:58 PM, Petter Rindforth < petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu> wrote:

Hi again,

We (the IRT) have a meeting at the Gnso-igo-ingo-ip-irt tomorrow.

If there is a specific question regarding the INGO identifier list you would like me to raise, please let me know.

Best, Petter

-- Petter Rindforth, LL M

Fenix Legal KB Stureplan 4c, 4tr 114 35 Stockholm Sweden Fax: +46(0)8-4631010 <+46%208%20463%2010%2010> Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360 E-mail: petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu www.fenixlegal.eu

NOTICE This e-mail message is intended solely for the individual or individuals to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify us by return e-mail. Fenix Legal KB, Sweden, www.fenixlegal.eu Thank you

24 januari 2018 14:09:56 +01:00, skrev Jay Chapman <jay@digimedia.com>:

+1 Paul

Sincerely, Jay Chapman On Jan 24, 2018 5:41 AM, "Paul Tattersfield" <gpmgroup@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you Mary for confirming the history, that is helpful.

I think it shows the dangers of ICANN building policy based on the principle of relying on third party lists especially ones subject to regular revision over time.

Gong (2011) Karp (2012) Mosaic (2013) Witness (2013) Rare (2015) Restored (2016)

I think it also demonstrates how bad policy can evolve out of trying to create quick fix solutions only perceived as necessary as a result of other unrelated flawed approaches.

Not good – someone should have been on top of this.

Best regards,

Paul.

On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 2:20 AM, Mary Wong <mary.wong@icann.org> wrote:

Hello Paul and everyone,

The list of INGOs is that of the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), and the GNSO PDP recommendation was to use the ECOSOC list. As such, it is not up to ICANN to make changes to that list; additions, modifications and deletions are determined under the applicable UN rules for organizations obtaining or maintaining recognition (e.g. general or consultative status) with ECOSOC. The staff understanding is that any updates needing to be made to the ICANN list as a result of changes to the ECOSOC list will be handled through the UN’s Department of Economic and Social Affairs (DESA).

Cheers

Mary

*From: *Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com> *Date: *Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 14:03 *To: *"gnso-igo-ingo-." <gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> *Subject: *[Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions?

Is the recently published INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? https://www.icann.org/sites/default/files/packages/reserved-names/ingo- identifier-list.xml[icann.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_sites_def...>

A cursory look shows names like

gong karp mosaic rare restored witness

Gong is an acronym for Gradani organizirano nadgledaju glasan

Karp is an acronym for The Korean Association of Retired Persons

Moisaic is a branding for More Mosaic NGO & Mosaic International NGO

Including rare, restored & witness doesn't sit well with the principal of coexistence.

Best regards,

Paul.

_______________________________________________ Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp

_______________________________________________ Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp

Thanks, Mary for that follow up. I read the question and topic more as to get an updated information on what ECOSOC does in order to keep the list updated (for use by ICANN, etc), and how often that is made even without any specified inputs from INGO’s. As this is more as a practical question on the ongoing and decided procedure, I am happy to check that out and return to you with information – if not Mary has those details already and easy to find. I also want to remind you all that when it comes to the identification of INGO’s for the IRT Principles, I have pointed out at an early stage for the Team that the reference to the GAC list shall not be considered as a guidance also for our WG, as we have at an early stage found that when it comes to domain name disputes, IGO’s need to be identified in a more internationally legally accepted way. Best,Petter --  Petter Rindforth, LL M Fenix Legal KB Stureplan 4c, 4tr 114 35 Stockholm Sweden Fax: +46(0)8-4631010 Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360 E-mail: petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu www.fenixlegal.eu NOTICE This e-mail message is intended solely for the individual or individuals to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify us by return e-mail. Fenix Legal KB, Sweden, www.fenixlegal.eu Thank you 24 januari 2018 18:52:38 +01:00, skrev Mary Wong <mary.wong@icann.org>:

Hello everyone,

Please be aware that the GNSO PDP recommendation was very clear, and it was approved both by the GNSO Council (in November 2013) and the Board (in April 2014). The PDP Working Group had specifically stated that, for INGOs (other than the Red Cross and the International Olympic Committee), the applicable names are those INGOs either in General Consultative or Special Consultative status with ECOSOC). You may also wish to note that second level protections for these INGO names are limited to a 90-days claims notification period (i.e. similar to the Trademark Claims service).

Even though the Implementation Review Team (IRT) for the PDP (on which Petter is participating) is still in operation, the IRT Principles that were adopted by the GNSO Council in 2016 provide that IRTs “should not be used as a tool to reopen a previously explored policy issue …. unless circumstances have changed and/or new information is available”.

At this stage, to reopen the issue for additional policy discussion will mean that a request needs to be made to the GNSO Council.

I hope this is helpful.

Cheers Mary

From:Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com> Date:Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 07:01 To:"petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu" <petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu> Cc:"gnso-igo-ingo-." <gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> Subject:Re: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions?

Petter,

This is basic stuff, even without George’s comments, I’m amazed no one picked it up, but with George taking the time to comment it’s unbelievable!

How can the IRT team get this fixed? Does it need to go back to the GNSO?

Best regards,

Paul

On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 1:58 PM, Petter Rindforth <<petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu>> wrote:

...

Hi again,

We (the IRT) have a meeting at the Gnso-igo-ingo-ip-irt tomorrow.

If there is a specific question regarding the INGO identifier list you would like me to raise, please let me know.

Best,

Petter

-- 

Petter Rindforth, LL M

Fenix Legal KB

Stureplan 4c, 4tr

114 35 Stockholm

Sweden

Fax: +46(0)8-4631010 <tel:+46%208%20463%2010%2010>

Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360

E-mail: <petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu>

www.fenixlegal.eu[fenixlegal.eu] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.fenixlegal.eu&d=DwMF...>

NOTICE

This e-mail message is intended solely for the individual or individuals to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify us by return e-mail.

Fenix Legal KB, Sweden, www.fenixlegal.eu[fenixlegal.eu] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.fenixlegal.eu&d=DwMF...>

Thank you

24 januari 2018 14:09:56 +01:00, skrev Jay Chapman <<jay@digimedia.com>>:

...

+1 Paul

Sincerely,

Jay Chapman

On Jan 24, 2018 5:41 AM, "Paul Tattersfield" <<gpmgroup@gmail.com>> wrote:

...

Thank you Mary for confirming the history, that is helpful.

I think it shows the dangers of ICANN building policy based on the principle of relying on third party lists especially ones subject to regular revision over time.

Gong (2011)

Karp (2012)

Mosaic (2013)

Witness (2013)

Rare (2015)

Restored (2016)

I think it also demonstrates how bad policy can evolve out of trying to create quick fix solutions only perceived as necessary as a result of other unrelated flawed approaches.

Not good – someone should have been on top of this.

Best regards,

Paul.

On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 2:20 AM, Mary Wong <<mary.wong@icann.org>> wrote:

...

Hello Paul and everyone,

The list of INGOs is that of the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), and the GNSO PDP recommendation was to use the ECOSOC list. As such, it is not up to ICANN to make changes to that list; additions, modifications and deletions are determined under the applicable UN rules for organizations obtaining or maintaining recognition (e.g. general or consultative status) with ECOSOC. The staff understanding is that any updates needing to be made to the ICANN list as a result of changes to the ECOSOC list will be handled through the UN’s Department of Economic and Social Affairs (DESA).

Cheers Mary

From:Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <<gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <<gpmgroup@gmail.com>>Date:Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 14:03 To:"gnso-igo-ingo-." <<gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org>> Subject:[Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions?

Is the recently published INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? https://www.icann.org/sites/default/files/packages/reserved-names/ingo-identifier-list.xml[icann.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_sites_def...> A cursory look shows names like

gong

karp

mosaic

rare

restored

witness

Gong is an acronym for Gradani organizirano nadgledaju glasan

Karp is an acronym for The Korean Association of Retired Persons

Moisaic is a branding for More Mosaic NGO & Mosaic International NGO

Including rare, restored & witness doesn't sit well with the principal of coexistence.

Best regards,

Paul.

_______________________________________________

Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list

<Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org>

<https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp>

_______________________________________________

Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list

<Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org>

<https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp>

Permanent protections for INGOs is completely outside the scope of our Charter, especially since it was amended to remove CRP for INGOs. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 24, 2018, at 5:25 PM, Petter Rindforth <petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu<mailto:petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu>> wrote: ...and of course I meant: "also want to remind you all that when it comes to the identification of IGO’s for the IRT Principles..." I don't see a need for our WG to work with identification of INGO's, and for IGO's we have already our own suggestion. Best, Petter -- Petter Rindforth, LL M [cid:49D61470-C55F-44F0-AA45-8F4196542C10] Fenix Legal KB Stureplan 4c, 4tr 114 35 Stockholm Sweden Fax: +46(0)8-4631010 Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360 E-mail: petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu<mailto:petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu> http://www.fenixlegal.eu NOTICE This e-mail message is intended solely for the individual or individuals to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify us by return e-mail. Fenix Legal KB, Sweden, http://www.fenixlegal.eu Thank you 24 januari 2018 22:28:51 +01:00, skrev Petter Rindforth <petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu<mailto:petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu>>: Thanks, Mary for that follow up. I read the question and topic more as to get an updated information on what ECOSOC does in order to keep the list updated (for use by ICANN, etc), and how often that is made even without any specified inputs from INGO’s. As this is more as a practical question on the ongoing and decided procedure, I am happy to check that out and return to you with information – if not Mary has those details already and easy to find. I also want to remind you all that when it comes to the identification of INGO’s for the IRT Principles, I have pointed out at an early stage for the Team that the reference to the GAC list shall not be considered as a guidance also for our WG, as we have at an early stage found that when it comes to domain name disputes, IGO’s need to be identified in a more internationally legally accepted way. Best, Petter -- Petter Rindforth, LL M [cid:49D61470-C55F-44F0-AA45-8F4196542C10] Fenix Legal KB Stureplan 4c, 4tr 114 35 Stockholm Sweden Fax: +46(0)8-4631010 Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360 E-mail: petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu<mailto:petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu> http://www.fenixlegal.eu NOTICE This e-mail message is intended solely for the individual or individuals to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify us by return e-mail. Fenix Legal KB, Sweden, http://www.fenixlegal.eu Thank you 24 januari 2018 18:52:38 +01:00, skrev Mary Wong <mary.wong@icann.org<mailto:mary.wong@icann.org>>: Hello everyone, Please be aware that the GNSO PDP recommendation was very clear, and it was approved both by the GNSO Council (in November 2013) and the Board (in April 2014). The PDP Working Group had specifically stated that, for INGOs (other than the Red Cross and the International Olympic Committee), the applicable names are those INGOs either in General Consultative or Special Consultative status with ECOSOC). You may also wish to note that second level protections for these INGO names are limited to a 90-days claims notification period (i.e. similar to the Trademark Claims service). Even though the Implementation Review Team (IRT) for the PDP (on which Petter is participating) is still in operation, the IRT Principles that were adopted by the GNSO Council in 2016 provide that IRTs “should not be used as a tool to reopen a previously explored policy issue …. unless circumstances have changed and/or new information is available”. At this stage, to reopen the issue for additional policy discussion will mean that a request needs to be made to the GNSO Council. I hope this is helpful. Cheers Mary From: Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com<mailto:gpmgroup@gmail.com>> Date: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 07:01 To: "petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu<mailto:petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu>" <petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu<mailto:petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu>> Cc: "gnso-igo-ingo-." <gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org<mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? Petter, This is basic stuff, even without George’s comments, I’m amazed no one picked it up, but with George taking the time to comment it’s unbelievable! How can the IRT team get this fixed? Does it need to go back to the GNSO? Best regards, Paul On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 1:58 PM, Petter Rindforth <petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu<mailto:petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu>> wrote: Hi again, We (the IRT) have a meeting at the Gnso-igo-ingo-ip-irt tomorrow. If there is a specific question regarding the INGO identifier list you would like me to raise, please let me know. Best, Petter -- Petter Rindforth, LL M [cid:image001.png@01D394F9.11CFB970] Fenix Legal KB Stureplan 4c, 4tr 114 35 Stockholm Sweden Fax: +46(0)8-4631010<tel:+46%208%20463%2010%2010> Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360 E-mail: petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu<mailto:petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu> http://www.fenixlegal.eu[fenixlegal.eu]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.fenixlegal.eu&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=ptuZblDFHPATGuFopHrHks7sowLz7jezyLujGFJfg8M&s=Ee-hPk-nRWy8FcGlQ7xIkRXxzF_v3CnUGJkCJeWE9mM&e=> NOTICE This e-mail message is intended solely for the individual or individuals to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify us by return e-mail. Fenix Legal KB, Sweden, http://www.fenixlegal.eu[fenixlegal.eu]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.fenixlegal.eu&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=ptuZblDFHPATGuFopHrHks7sowLz7jezyLujGFJfg8M&s=Ee-hPk-nRWy8FcGlQ7xIkRXxzF_v3CnUGJkCJeWE9mM&e=> Thank you 24 januari 2018 14:09:56 +01:00, skrev Jay Chapman <jay@digimedia.com<mailto:jay@digimedia.com>>: +1 Paul Sincerely, Jay Chapman On Jan 24, 2018 5:41 AM, "Paul Tattersfield" <gpmgroup@gmail.com<mailto:gpmgroup@gmail.com>> wrote: Thank you Mary for confirming the history, that is helpful. I think it shows the dangers of ICANN building policy based on the principle of relying on third party lists especially ones subject to regular revision over time. Gong (2011) Karp (2012) Mosaic (2013) Witness (2013) Rare (2015) Restored (2016) I think it also demonstrates how bad policy can evolve out of trying to create quick fix solutions only perceived as necessary as a result of other unrelated flawed approaches. Not good – someone should have been on top of this. Best regards, Paul. On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 2:20 AM, Mary Wong <mary.wong@icann.org<mailto:mary.wong@icann.org>> wrote: Hello Paul and everyone, The list of INGOs is that of the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), and the GNSO PDP recommendation was to use the ECOSOC list. As such, it is not up to ICANN to make changes to that list; additions, modifications and deletions are determined under the applicable UN rules for organizations obtaining or maintaining recognition (e.g. general or consultative status) with ECOSOC. The staff understanding is that any updates needing to be made to the ICANN list as a result of changes to the ECOSOC list will be handled through the UN’s Department of Economic and Social Affairs (DESA). Cheers Mary From: Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com<mailto:gpmgroup@gmail.com>> Date: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 14:03 To: "gnso-igo-ingo-." <gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org<mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org>> Subject: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? Is the recently published INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? https://www.icann.org/sites/default/files/packages/reserved-names/ingo-identifier-list.xml[http://icann.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_sites_default_files_packages_reserved-2Dnames_ingo-2Didentifier-2Dlist.xml&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=ZHelugwDlnz3X92N6KrDyyvuK2Rzt6IFt7uLvTr9ZM4&s=Nhzg0poKNZr6aRnDjt917fA-WZ0KJ58OTvEXOmsXMuk&e=> A cursory look shows names like gong karp mosaic rare restored witness Gong is an acronym for Gradani organizirano nadgledaju glasan Karp is an acronym for The Korean Association of Retired Persons Moisaic is a branding for More Mosaic NGO & Mosaic International NGO Including rare, restored & witness doesn't sit well with the principal of coexistence. Best regards, Paul. _______________________________________________ Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp _______________________________________________ Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp _______________________________________________ Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp _______________________________________________ Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp

Thank you Mary, While the GNSP PDP recommendation may state as much, there seems no reason why we cannot address the issue in our report. I for one (and many others including Petter) have voiced objection to any policy change that would grant INGOs added rights based upon their appearing in such lists. IMHO such lists are entirely unofficial and subject to change at any time. Further, as I understand it, an INGO can remain on the list even if another government objects. Finally, there is no requirement that the asserted moniker be a unique identifier or limited to the formal name of the INGO. This was one of the reasons I stated my objection to the creation of any special remedial process. Paul From: Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Mary Wong <mary.wong@icann.org> Date: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 6:52 PM To: Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com>, "petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu" <petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu> Cc: "gnso-igo-ingo-." <gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions?

Hello everyone,

Please be aware that the GNSO PDP recommendation was very clear, and it was approved both by the GNSO Council (in November 2013) and the Board (in April 2014). The PDP Working Group had specifically stated that, for INGOs (other than the Red Cross and the International Olympic Committee), the applicable names are those INGOs either in General Consultative or Special Consultative status with ECOSOC). You may also wish to note that second level protections for these INGO names are limited to a 90-days claims notification period (i.e. similar to the Trademark Claims service).

Even though the Implementation Review Team (IRT) for the PDP (on which Petter is participating) is still in operation, the IRT Principles that were adopted by the GNSO Council in 2016 provide that IRTs ³should not be used as a tool to reopen a previously explored policy issue Š. unless circumstances have changed and/or new information is available².

At this stage, to reopen the issue for additional policy discussion will mean that a request needs to be made to the GNSO Council.

I hope this is helpful.

Cheers Mary

From: Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 07:01 To: "petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu" <petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu> Cc: "gnso-igo-ingo-." <gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions?

Petter,

This is basic stuff, even without George¹s comments, I¹m amazed no one picked it up, but with George taking the time to comment it¹s unbelievable!

How can the IRT team get this fixed? Does it need to go back to the GNSO? Best regards,

Paul

On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 1:58 PM, Petter Rindforth <petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu> wrote:

...

Hi again,

We (the IRT) have a meeting at the Gnso-igo-ingo-ip-irt tomorrow.

If there is a specific question regarding the INGO identifier list you would like me to raise, please let me know.

Best,

Petter

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Thank you

24 januari 2018 14:09:56 +01:00, skrev Jay Chapman <jay@digimedia.com>:

...

+1 Paul

Sincerely,

Jay Chapman

On Jan 24, 2018 5:41 AM, "Paul Tattersfield" <gpmgroup@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Thank you Mary for confirming the history, that is helpful.

I think it shows the dangers of ICANN building policy based on the principle of relying on third party lists especially ones subject to regular revision over time.

Gong (2011)

Karp (2012)

Mosaic (2013)

Witness (2013)

Rare (2015)

Restored (2016)

I think it also demonstrates how bad policy can evolve out of trying to create quick fix solutions only perceived as necessary as a result of other unrelated flawed approaches.

Not good ­ someone should have been on top of this.

Best regards,

Paul.

On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 2:20 AM, Mary Wong <mary.wong@icann.org> wrote:

...

Hello Paul and everyone,

The list of INGOs is that of the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), and the GNSO PDP recommendation was to use the ECOSOC list. As such, it is not up to ICANN to make changes to that list; additions, modifications and deletions are determined under the applicable UN rules for organizations obtaining or maintaining recognition (e.g. general or consultative status) with ECOSOC. The staff understanding is that any updates needing to be made to the ICANN list as a result of changes to the ECOSOC list will be handled through the UN¹s Department of Economic and Social Affairs (DESA).

Cheers

Mary

From: Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com> Date: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 14:03 To: "gnso-igo-ingo-." <gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> Subject: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions?

Is the recently published INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? https://www.icann.org/sites/default/files/packages/reserved-names/ingo-ide ntifier-list.xml[icann.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_sites_ default_files_packages_reserved-2Dnames_ingo-2Didentifier-2Dlist.xml&d=DwM FaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6 c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=ZHelugwDlnz3X92N6KrDyyvuK2Rzt6IFt7uLvTr9ZM4&s=Nhzg 0poKNZr6aRnDjt917fA-WZ0KJ58OTvEXOmsXMuk&e=>

A cursory look shows names like

gong

karp

mosaic

rare

restored

witness

Gong is an acronym for Gradani organizirano nadgledaju glasan

Karp is an acronym for The Korean Association of Retired Persons

Moisaic is a branding for More Mosaic NGO & Mosaic International NGO

Including rare, restored & witness doesn't sit well with the principal of coexistence.

Best regards,

Paul.

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