Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions?
Is the recently published INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? https://www.icann.org/sites/default/files/packages/reserved-names/ingo-ident... A cursory look shows names like gong karp mosaic rare restored witness Gong is an acronym for Gradani organizirano nadgledaju glasan Karp is an acronym for The Korean Association of Retired Persons Moisaic is a branding for More Mosaic NGO & Mosaic International NGO Including rare, restored & witness doesn't sit well with the principal of coexistence. Best regards, Paul.
Hello Paul and everyone, The list of INGOs is that of the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), and the GNSO PDP recommendation was to use the ECOSOC list. As such, it is not up to ICANN to make changes to that list; additions, modifications and deletions are determined under the applicable UN rules for organizations obtaining or maintaining recognition (e.g. general or consultative status) with ECOSOC. The staff understanding is that any updates needing to be made to the ICANN list as a result of changes to the ECOSOC list will be handled through the UN’s Department of Economic and Social Affairs (DESA). Cheers Mary From: Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com> Date: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 14:03 To: "gnso-igo-ingo-." <gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> Subject: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? Is the recently published INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? https://www.icann.org/sites/default/files/packages/reserved-names/ingo-identifier-list.xml[icann.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_sites_default_files_packages_reserved-2Dnames_ingo-2Didentifier-2Dlist.xml&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=ZHelugwDlnz3X92N6KrDyyvuK2Rzt6IFt7uLvTr9ZM4&s=Nhzg0poKNZr6aRnDjt917fA-WZ0KJ58OTvEXOmsXMuk&e=> A cursory look shows names like gong karp mosaic rare restored witness Gong is an acronym for Gradani organizirano nadgledaju glasan Karp is an acronym for The Korean Association of Retired Persons Moisaic is a branding for More Mosaic NGO & Mosaic International NGO Including rare, restored & witness doesn't sit well with the principal of coexistence. Best regards, Paul.
Thank you Mary for confirming the history, that is helpful. I think it shows the dangers of ICANN building policy based on the principle of relying on third party lists especially ones subject to regular revision over time. Gong (2011) Karp (2012) Mosaic (2013) Witness (2013) Rare (2015) Restored (2016) I think it also demonstrates how bad policy can evolve out of trying to create quick fix solutions only perceived as necessary as a result of other unrelated flawed approaches. Not good – someone should have been on top of this. Best regards, Paul. On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 2:20 AM, Mary Wong <mary.wong@icann.org> wrote:
Hello Paul and everyone,
The list of INGOs is that of the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), and the GNSO PDP recommendation was to use the ECOSOC list. As such, it is not up to ICANN to make changes to that list; additions, modifications and deletions are determined under the applicable UN rules for organizations obtaining or maintaining recognition (e.g. general or consultative status) with ECOSOC. The staff understanding is that any updates needing to be made to the ICANN list as a result of changes to the ECOSOC list will be handled through the UN’s Department of Economic and Social Affairs (DESA).
Cheers
Mary
*From: *Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com> *Date: *Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 14:03 *To: *"gnso-igo-ingo-." <gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> *Subject: *[Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions?
Is the recently published INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? https://www.icann.org/sites/default/files/packages/reserved-names/ingo- identifier-list.xml[icann.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_sites_def...>
A cursory look shows names like
gong karp mosaic rare restored witness
Gong is an acronym for Gradani organizirano nadgledaju glasan
Karp is an acronym for The Korean Association of Retired Persons
Moisaic is a branding for More Mosaic NGO & Mosaic International NGO
Including rare, restored & witness doesn't sit well with the principal of coexistence.
Best regards,
Paul.
Hi Paul, I agree that all such identification lists need to be updated continuously. However, it is then up to those that provides identification to make those updates. The more normal and simple example of that is all domain owners Whois identification. / Petter -- Petter Rindforth, LL M Fenix Legal KB Stureplan 4c, 4tr 114 35 Stockholm Sweden Fax: +46(0)8-4631010 Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360 E-mail: petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu www.fenixlegal.eu NOTICE This e-mail message is intended solely for the individual or individuals to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify us by return e-mail. Fenix Legal KB, Sweden, www.fenixlegal.eu Thank you 24 januari 2018 12:41:17 +01:00, skrev Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com>:
Thank you Mary for confirming the history, that is helpful.
I think it shows the dangers of ICANN building policy based on the principle of relying on third party lists especially ones subject to regular revision over time.
Gong (2011) Karp (2012) Mosaic (2013) Witness (2013) Rare (2015) Restored (2016)
I think it also demonstrates how bad policy can evolve out of trying to create quick fix solutions only perceived as necessary as a result of other unrelated flawed approaches.
Not good – someone should have been on top of this.
Best regards,
Paul.
On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 2:20 AM, Mary Wong <<mary.wong@icann.org>> wrote:
Hello Paul and everyone,
The list of INGOs is that of the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), and the GNSO PDP recommendation was to use the ECOSOC list. As such, it is not up to ICANN to make changes to that list; additions, modifications and deletions are determined under the applicable UN rules for organizations obtaining or maintaining recognition (e.g. general or consultative status) with ECOSOC. The staff understanding is that any updates needing to be made to the ICANN list as a result of changes to the ECOSOC list will be handled through the UN’s Department of Economic and Social Affairs (DESA).
Cheers Mary
From:Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <<gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <<gpmgroup@gmail.com>> Date:Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 14:03 To:"gnso-igo-ingo-." <<gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org>> Subject:[Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions?
Is the recently published INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? https://www.icann.org/sites/default/files/packages/reserved-names/ingo-identifier-list.xml[icann.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_sites_default_files_packages_reserved-2Dnames_ingo-2Didentifier-2Dlist.xml&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=ZHelugwDlnz3X92N6KrDyyvuK2Rzt6IFt7uLvTr9ZM4&s=Nhzg0poKNZr6aRnDjt917fA-WZ0KJ58OTvEXOmsXMuk&e=>A cursory look shows names like
gong karp mosaic rare restored witness
Gong is an acronym for Gradani organizirano nadgledaju glasan
Karp is an acronym for The Korean Association of Retired Persons
Moisaic is a branding for More Mosaic NGO & Mosaic International NGO
Including rare, restored & witness doesn't sit well with the principal of coexistence.
Best regards,
Paul.
Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp>
Hi Paul, On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 6:41 AM, Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com> wrote:
I think it also demonstrates how bad policy can evolve out of trying to create quick fix solutions only perceived as necessary as a result of other unrelated flawed approaches.
Not good – someone should have been on top of this.
Only 4 comments were made during the public comment period (including one by me): https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/comments-igo-ingo-protection-17may17/2017q3/d... https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/comments-igo-ingo-protection-17may17/2017q3/0... I did point out that generic terms such as "Rare" and "Mosaic" were on the draft list and said: "ICANN should consult with the GNSO *and* the public before adding additional names to the list, to ensure that shorter domain names that have multiple competing uses (e.g. generic dictionary words, acronyms, etc.) are not added to the list." but the implementation working group ignored that input. Sincerely, George Kirikos 416-588-0269 http://www.leap.com/
+1 Paul Sincerely, Jay Chapman On Jan 24, 2018 5:41 AM, "Paul Tattersfield" <gpmgroup@gmail.com> wrote: Thank you Mary for confirming the history, that is helpful. I think it shows the dangers of ICANN building policy based on the principle of relying on third party lists especially ones subject to regular revision over time. Gong (2011) Karp (2012) Mosaic (2013) Witness (2013) Rare (2015) Restored (2016) I think it also demonstrates how bad policy can evolve out of trying to create quick fix solutions only perceived as necessary as a result of other unrelated flawed approaches. Not good – someone should have been on top of this. Best regards, Paul. On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 2:20 AM, Mary Wong <mary.wong@icann.org> wrote:
Hello Paul and everyone,
The list of INGOs is that of the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), and the GNSO PDP recommendation was to use the ECOSOC list. As such, it is not up to ICANN to make changes to that list; additions, modifications and deletions are determined under the applicable UN rules for organizations obtaining or maintaining recognition (e.g. general or consultative status) with ECOSOC. The staff understanding is that any updates needing to be made to the ICANN list as a result of changes to the ECOSOC list will be handled through the UN’s Department of Economic and Social Affairs (DESA).
Cheers
Mary
*From: *Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com> *Date: *Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 14:03 *To: *"gnso-igo-ingo-." <gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> *Subject: *[Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions?
Is the recently published INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? https://www.icann.org/sites/default/files/packages/reserved- names/ingo-identifier-list.xml[icann.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_sites_def...>
A cursory look shows names like
gong karp mosaic rare restored witness
Gong is an acronym for Gradani organizirano nadgledaju glasan
Karp is an acronym for The Korean Association of Retired Persons
Moisaic is a branding for More Mosaic NGO & Mosaic International NGO
Including rare, restored & witness doesn't sit well with the principal of coexistence.
Best regards,
Paul.
_______________________________________________ Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp
Hi again, We (the IRT) have a meeting at the Gnso-igo-ingo-ip-irt tomorrow. If there is a specific question regarding the INGO identifier list you would like me to raise, please let me know. Best, Petter -- Petter Rindforth, LL M Fenix Legal KB Stureplan 4c, 4tr 114 35 Stockholm Sweden Fax: +46(0)8-4631010 Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360 E-mail: petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu www.fenixlegal.eu NOTICE This e-mail message is intended solely for the individual or individuals to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify us by return e-mail. Fenix Legal KB, Sweden, www.fenixlegal.eu Thank you 24 januari 2018 14:09:56 +01:00, skrev Jay Chapman <jay@digimedia.com>:
+1 Paul
Sincerely, Jay Chapman
On Jan 24, 2018 5:41 AM, "Paul Tattersfield" <<gpmgroup@gmail.com>> wrote:
Thank you Mary for confirming the history, that is helpful.
I think it shows the dangers of ICANN building policy based on the principle of relying on third party lists especially ones subject to regular revision over time.
Gong (2011) Karp (2012) Mosaic (2013) Witness (2013) Rare (2015) Restored (2016)
I think it also demonstrates how bad policy can evolve out of trying to create quick fix solutions only perceived as necessary as a result of other unrelated flawed approaches.
Not good – someone should have been on top of this.
Best regards,
Paul.
On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 2:20 AM, Mary Wong <<mary.wong@icann.org>> wrote:
Hello Paul and everyone,
The list of INGOs is that of the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), and the GNSO PDP recommendation was to use the ECOSOC list. As such, it is not up to ICANN to make changes to that list; additions, modifications and deletions are determined under the applicable UN rules for organizations obtaining or maintaining recognition (e.g. general or consultative status) with ECOSOC. The staff understanding is that any updates needing to be made to the ICANN list as a result of changes to the ECOSOC list will be handled through the UN’s Department of Economic and Social Affairs (DESA).
Cheers Mary
From:Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <<gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <<gpmgroup@gmail.com>> Date:Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 14:03 To:"gnso-igo-ingo-." <<gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org>> Subject:[Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions?
Is the recently published INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? https://www.icann.org/sites/default/files/packages/reserved-names/ingo-identifier-list.xml[icann.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_sites_default_files_packages_reserved-2Dnames_ingo-2Didentifier-2Dlist.xml&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=ZHelugwDlnz3X92N6KrDyyvuK2Rzt6IFt7uLvTr9ZM4&s=Nhzg0poKNZr6aRnDjt917fA-WZ0KJ58OTvEXOmsXMuk&e=>A cursory look shows names like
gong karp mosaic rare restored witness
Gong is an acronym for Gradani organizirano nadgledaju glasan
Karp is an acronym for The Korean Association of Retired Persons
Moisaic is a branding for More Mosaic NGO & Mosaic International NGO
Including rare, restored & witness doesn't sit well with the principal of coexistence.
Best regards,
Paul.
_______________________________________________ Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list <Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp>
_______________________________________________ Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp>
Petter, This is basic stuff, even without George’s comments, I’m amazed no one picked it up, but with George taking the time to comment it’s unbelievable! How can the IRT team get this fixed? Does it need to go back to the GNSO? Best regards, Paul On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 1:58 PM, Petter Rindforth < petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu> wrote:
Hi again,
We (the IRT) have a meeting at the Gnso-igo-ingo-ip-irt tomorrow.
If there is a specific question regarding the INGO identifier list you would like me to raise, please let me know.
Best, Petter
-- Petter Rindforth, LL M
Fenix Legal KB Stureplan 4c, 4tr 114 35 Stockholm Sweden Fax: +46(0)8-4631010 <+46%208%20463%2010%2010> Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360 E-mail: petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu www.fenixlegal.eu
NOTICE This e-mail message is intended solely for the individual or individuals to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify us by return e-mail. Fenix Legal KB, Sweden, www.fenixlegal.eu Thank you
24 januari 2018 14:09:56 +01:00, skrev Jay Chapman <jay@digimedia.com>:
+1 Paul
Sincerely, Jay Chapman On Jan 24, 2018 5:41 AM, "Paul Tattersfield" <gpmgroup@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Mary for confirming the history, that is helpful.
I think it shows the dangers of ICANN building policy based on the principle of relying on third party lists especially ones subject to regular revision over time.
Gong (2011) Karp (2012) Mosaic (2013) Witness (2013) Rare (2015) Restored (2016)
I think it also demonstrates how bad policy can evolve out of trying to create quick fix solutions only perceived as necessary as a result of other unrelated flawed approaches.
Not good – someone should have been on top of this.
Best regards,
Paul.
On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 2:20 AM, Mary Wong <mary.wong@icann.org> wrote:
Hello Paul and everyone,
The list of INGOs is that of the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), and the GNSO PDP recommendation was to use the ECOSOC list. As such, it is not up to ICANN to make changes to that list; additions, modifications and deletions are determined under the applicable UN rules for organizations obtaining or maintaining recognition (e.g. general or consultative status) with ECOSOC. The staff understanding is that any updates needing to be made to the ICANN list as a result of changes to the ECOSOC list will be handled through the UN’s Department of Economic and Social Affairs (DESA).
Cheers
Mary
*From: *Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com> *Date: *Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 14:03 *To: *"gnso-igo-ingo-." <gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> *Subject: *[Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions?
Is the recently published INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? https://www.icann.org/sites/default/files/packages/reserved-names/ingo- identifier-list.xml[icann.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_sites_def...>
A cursory look shows names like
gong karp mosaic rare restored witness
Gong is an acronym for Gradani organizirano nadgledaju glasan
Karp is an acronym for The Korean Association of Retired Persons
Moisaic is a branding for More Mosaic NGO & Mosaic International NGO
Including rare, restored & witness doesn't sit well with the principal of coexistence.
Best regards,
Paul.
_______________________________________________ Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp
_______________________________________________ Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp
Hello everyone, Please be aware that the GNSO PDP recommendation was very clear, and it was approved both by the GNSO Council (in November 2013) and the Board (in April 2014). The PDP Working Group had specifically stated that, for INGOs (other than the Red Cross and the International Olympic Committee), the applicable names are those INGOs either in General Consultative or Special Consultative status with ECOSOC). You may also wish to note that second level protections for these INGO names are limited to a 90-days claims notification period (i.e. similar to the Trademark Claims service). Even though the Implementation Review Team (IRT) for the PDP (on which Petter is participating) is still in operation, the IRT Principles that were adopted by the GNSO Council in 2016 provide that IRTs “should not be used as a tool to reopen a previously explored policy issue …. unless circumstances have changed and/or new information is available”. At this stage, to reopen the issue for additional policy discussion will mean that a request needs to be made to the GNSO Council. I hope this is helpful. Cheers Mary From: Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 07:01 To: "petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu" <petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu> Cc: "gnso-igo-ingo-." <gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? Petter, This is basic stuff, even without George’s comments, I’m amazed no one picked it up, but with George taking the time to comment it’s unbelievable! How can the IRT team get this fixed? Does it need to go back to the GNSO? Best regards, Paul On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 1:58 PM, Petter Rindforth <petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu<mailto:petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu>> wrote: Hi again, We (the IRT) have a meeting at the Gnso-igo-ingo-ip-irt tomorrow. If there is a specific question regarding the INGO identifier list you would like me to raise, please let me know. Best, Petter -- Petter Rindforth, LL M [cid:image001.png@01D394F9.11CFB970] Fenix Legal KB Stureplan 4c, 4tr 114 35 Stockholm Sweden Fax: +46(0)8-4631010<tel:+46%208%20463%2010%2010> Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360 E-mail: petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu<mailto:petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu> www.fenixlegal.eu[fenixlegal.eu]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.fenixlegal.eu&d=DwMF...> NOTICE This e-mail message is intended solely for the individual or individuals to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify us by return e-mail. Fenix Legal KB, Sweden, www.fenixlegal.eu[fenixlegal.eu]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.fenixlegal.eu&d=DwMF...> Thank you 24 januari 2018 14:09:56 +01:00, skrev Jay Chapman <jay@digimedia.com<mailto:jay@digimedia.com>>: +1 Paul Sincerely, Jay Chapman On Jan 24, 2018 5:41 AM, "Paul Tattersfield" <gpmgroup@gmail.com<mailto:gpmgroup@gmail.com>> wrote: Thank you Mary for confirming the history, that is helpful. I think it shows the dangers of ICANN building policy based on the principle of relying on third party lists especially ones subject to regular revision over time. Gong (2011) Karp (2012) Mosaic (2013) Witness (2013) Rare (2015) Restored (2016) I think it also demonstrates how bad policy can evolve out of trying to create quick fix solutions only perceived as necessary as a result of other unrelated flawed approaches. Not good – someone should have been on top of this. Best regards, Paul. On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 2:20 AM, Mary Wong <mary.wong@icann.org<mailto:mary.wong@icann.org>> wrote: Hello Paul and everyone, The list of INGOs is that of the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), and the GNSO PDP recommendation was to use the ECOSOC list. As such, it is not up to ICANN to make changes to that list; additions, modifications and deletions are determined under the applicable UN rules for organizations obtaining or maintaining recognition (e.g. general or consultative status) with ECOSOC. The staff understanding is that any updates needing to be made to the ICANN list as a result of changes to the ECOSOC list will be handled through the UN’s Department of Economic and Social Affairs (DESA). Cheers Mary From: Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com<mailto:gpmgroup@gmail.com>> Date: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 14:03 To: "gnso-igo-ingo-." <gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org<mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org>> Subject: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? Is the recently published INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? https://www.icann.org/sites/default/files/packages/reserved-names/ingo-identifier-list.xml[icann.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_sites_default_files_packages_reserved-2Dnames_ingo-2Didentifier-2Dlist.xml&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=ZHelugwDlnz3X92N6KrDyyvuK2Rzt6IFt7uLvTr9ZM4&s=Nhzg0poKNZr6aRnDjt917fA-WZ0KJ58OTvEXOmsXMuk&e=> A cursory look shows names like gong karp mosaic rare restored witness Gong is an acronym for Gradani organizirano nadgledaju glasan Karp is an acronym for The Korean Association of Retired Persons Moisaic is a branding for More Mosaic NGO & Mosaic International NGO Including rare, restored & witness doesn't sit well with the principal of coexistence. Best regards, Paul. _______________________________________________ Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp _______________________________________________ Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp
Thanks, Mary for that follow up. I read the question and topic more as to get an updated information on what ECOSOC does in order to keep the list updated (for use by ICANN, etc), and how often that is made even without any specified inputs from INGO’s. As this is more as a practical question on the ongoing and decided procedure, I am happy to check that out and return to you with information – if not Mary has those details already and easy to find. I also want to remind you all that when it comes to the identification of INGO’s for the IRT Principles, I have pointed out at an early stage for the Team that the reference to the GAC list shall not be considered as a guidance also for our WG, as we have at an early stage found that when it comes to domain name disputes, IGO’s need to be identified in a more internationally legally accepted way. Best,Petter -- Petter Rindforth, LL M Fenix Legal KB Stureplan 4c, 4tr 114 35 Stockholm Sweden Fax: +46(0)8-4631010 Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360 E-mail: petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu www.fenixlegal.eu NOTICE This e-mail message is intended solely for the individual or individuals to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify us by return e-mail. Fenix Legal KB, Sweden, www.fenixlegal.eu Thank you 24 januari 2018 18:52:38 +01:00, skrev Mary Wong <mary.wong@icann.org>:
Hello everyone,
Please be aware that the GNSO PDP recommendation was very clear, and it was approved both by the GNSO Council (in November 2013) and the Board (in April 2014). The PDP Working Group had specifically stated that, for INGOs (other than the Red Cross and the International Olympic Committee), the applicable names are those INGOs either in General Consultative or Special Consultative status with ECOSOC). You may also wish to note that second level protections for these INGO names are limited to a 90-days claims notification period (i.e. similar to the Trademark Claims service).
Even though the Implementation Review Team (IRT) for the PDP (on which Petter is participating) is still in operation, the IRT Principles that were adopted by the GNSO Council in 2016 provide that IRTs “should not be used as a tool to reopen a previously explored policy issue …. unless circumstances have changed and/or new information is available”.
At this stage, to reopen the issue for additional policy discussion will mean that a request needs to be made to the GNSO Council.
I hope this is helpful.
Cheers Mary
From:Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com> Date:Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 07:01 To:"petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu" <petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu> Cc:"gnso-igo-ingo-." <gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> Subject:Re: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions?
Petter,
This is basic stuff, even without George’s comments, I’m amazed no one picked it up, but with George taking the time to comment it’s unbelievable!
How can the IRT team get this fixed? Does it need to go back to the GNSO?
Best regards,
Paul
On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 1:58 PM, Petter Rindforth <<petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu>> wrote:
Hi again,
We (the IRT) have a meeting at the Gnso-igo-ingo-ip-irt tomorrow.
If there is a specific question regarding the INGO identifier list you would like me to raise, please let me know.
Best,
Petter
--
Petter Rindforth, LL M
Fenix Legal KB
Stureplan 4c, 4tr
114 35 Stockholm
Sweden
Fax: +46(0)8-4631010 <tel:+46%208%20463%2010%2010>
Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360
E-mail: <petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu>
www.fenixlegal.eu[fenixlegal.eu] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.fenixlegal.eu&d=DwMF...>
NOTICE
This e-mail message is intended solely for the individual or individuals to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify us by return e-mail.
Fenix Legal KB, Sweden, www.fenixlegal.eu[fenixlegal.eu] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.fenixlegal.eu&d=DwMF...>
Thank you
24 januari 2018 14:09:56 +01:00, skrev Jay Chapman <<jay@digimedia.com>>:
+1 Paul
Sincerely,
Jay Chapman
On Jan 24, 2018 5:41 AM, "Paul Tattersfield" <<gpmgroup@gmail.com>> wrote:
Thank you Mary for confirming the history, that is helpful.
I think it shows the dangers of ICANN building policy based on the principle of relying on third party lists especially ones subject to regular revision over time.
Gong (2011)
Karp (2012)
Mosaic (2013)
Witness (2013)
Rare (2015)
Restored (2016)
I think it also demonstrates how bad policy can evolve out of trying to create quick fix solutions only perceived as necessary as a result of other unrelated flawed approaches.
Not good – someone should have been on top of this.
Best regards,
Paul.
On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 2:20 AM, Mary Wong <<mary.wong@icann.org>> wrote:
Hello Paul and everyone,
The list of INGOs is that of the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), and the GNSO PDP recommendation was to use the ECOSOC list. As such, it is not up to ICANN to make changes to that list; additions, modifications and deletions are determined under the applicable UN rules for organizations obtaining or maintaining recognition (e.g. general or consultative status) with ECOSOC. The staff understanding is that any updates needing to be made to the ICANN list as a result of changes to the ECOSOC list will be handled through the UN’s Department of Economic and Social Affairs (DESA).
Cheers Mary
From:Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <<gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <<gpmgroup@gmail.com>>Date:Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 14:03 To:"gnso-igo-ingo-." <<gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org>> Subject:[Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions?
Is the recently published INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? https://www.icann.org/sites/default/files/packages/reserved-names/ingo-identifier-list.xml[icann.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_sites_def...> A cursory look shows names like
gong
karp
mosaic
rare
restored
witness
Gong is an acronym for Gradani organizirano nadgledaju glasan
Karp is an acronym for The Korean Association of Retired Persons
Moisaic is a branding for More Mosaic NGO & Mosaic International NGO
Including rare, restored & witness doesn't sit well with the principal of coexistence.
Best regards,
Paul.
_______________________________________________
Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list
<Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org>
_______________________________________________
Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list
<Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org>
...and of course I meant: "also want to remind you all that when it comes to the identification of IGO’s for the IRT Principles..." I don't see a need for our WG to work with identification of INGO's, and for IGO'swe have already our own suggestion. Best, Petter -- Petter Rindforth, LL M Fenix Legal KB Stureplan 4c, 4tr 114 35 Stockholm Sweden Fax: +46(0)8-4631010 Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360 E-mail: petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu www.fenixlegal.eu NOTICE This e-mail message is intended solely for the individual or individuals to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify us by return e-mail. Fenix Legal KB, Sweden, www.fenixlegal.eu Thank you 24 januari 2018 22:28:51 +01:00, skrev Petter Rindforth <petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu>:
Thanks, Mary for that follow up.
I read the question and topic more as to get an updated information on what ECOSOC does in order to keep the list updated (for use by ICANN, etc), and how often that is made even without any specified inputs from INGO’s. As this is more as a practical question on the ongoing and decided procedure, I am happy to check that out and return to you with information – if not Mary has those details already and easy to find.
I also want to remind you all that when it comes to the identification of INGO’s for the IRT Principles, I have pointed out at an early stage for the Team that the reference to the GAC list shall not be considered as a guidance also for our WG, as we have at an early stage found that when it comes to domain name disputes, IGO’s need to be identified in a more internationally legally accepted way.
Best, Petter -- Petter Rindforth, LL M
Fenix Legal KB Stureplan 4c, 4tr 114 35 Stockholm Sweden Fax: +46(0)8-4631010 Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360 E-mail: petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu www.fenixlegal.eu
NOTICE This e-mail message is intended solely for the individual or individuals to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify us by return e-mail. Fenix Legal KB, Sweden, www.fenixlegal.eu Thank you
24 januari 2018 18:52:38 +01:00, skrev Mary Wong <mary.wong@icann.org>:
Hello everyone,
Please be aware that the GNSO PDP recommendation was very clear, and it was approved both by the GNSO Council (in November 2013) and the Board (in April 2014). The PDP Working Group had specifically stated that, for INGOs (other than the Red Cross and the International Olympic Committee), the applicable names are those INGOs either in General Consultative or Special Consultative status with ECOSOC). You may also wish to note that second level protections for these INGO names are limited to a 90-days claims notification period (i.e. similar to the Trademark Claims service).
Even though the Implementation Review Team (IRT) for the PDP (on which Petter is participating) is still in operation, the IRT Principles that were adopted by the GNSO Council in 2016 provide that IRTs “should not be used as a tool to reopen a previously explored policy issue …. unless circumstances have changed and/or new information is available”.
At this stage, to reopen the issue for additional policy discussion will mean that a request needs to be made to the GNSO Council.
I hope this is helpful.
Cheers Mary
From:Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com> Date:Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 07:01 To:"petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu" <petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu> Cc:"gnso-igo-ingo-." <gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> Subject:Re: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions?
Petter,
This is basic stuff, even without George’s comments, I’m amazed no one picked it up, but with George taking the time to comment it’s unbelievable!
How can the IRT team get this fixed? Does it need to go back to the GNSO?
Best regards,
Paul
On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 1:58 PM, Petter Rindforth <<petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu>> wrote:
Hi again,
We (the IRT) have a meeting at the Gnso-igo-ingo-ip-irt tomorrow.
If there is a specific question regarding the INGO identifier list you would like me to raise, please let me know.
Best,
Petter
--
Petter Rindforth, LL M
Fenix Legal KB
Stureplan 4c, 4tr
114 35 Stockholm
Sweden
Fax: +46(0)8-4631010 <tel:+46%208%20463%2010%2010>
Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360
E-mail: <petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu>
www.fenixlegal.eu[fenixlegal.eu] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.fenixlegal.eu&d=DwMF...>
NOTICE
This e-mail message is intended solely for the individual or individuals to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify us by return e-mail.
Fenix Legal KB, Sweden, www.fenixlegal.eu[fenixlegal.eu] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.fenixlegal.eu&d=DwMF...>
Thank you
24 januari 2018 14:09:56 +01:00, skrev Jay Chapman <<jay@digimedia.com>>:
+1 Paul
Sincerely,
Jay Chapman
On Jan 24, 2018 5:41 AM, "Paul Tattersfield" <<gpmgroup@gmail.com>> wrote:
Thank you Mary for confirming the history, that is helpful.
I think it shows the dangers of ICANN building policy based on the principle of relying on third party lists especially ones subject to regular revision over time.
Gong (2011)
Karp (2012)
Mosaic (2013)
Witness (2013)
Rare (2015)
Restored (2016)
I think it also demonstrates how bad policy can evolve out of trying to create quick fix solutions only perceived as necessary as a result of other unrelated flawed approaches.
Not good – someone should have been on top of this.
Best regards,
Paul.
On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 2:20 AM, Mary Wong <<mary.wong@icann.org>> wrote:
Hello Paul and everyone,
The list of INGOs is that of the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), and the GNSO PDP recommendation was to use the ECOSOC list. As such, it is not up to ICANN to make changes to that list; additions, modifications and deletions are determined under the applicable UN rules for organizations obtaining or maintaining recognition (e.g. general or consultative status) with ECOSOC. The staff understanding is that any updates needing to be made to the ICANN list as a result of changes to the ECOSOC list will be handled through the UN’s Department of Economic and Social Affairs (DESA).
Cheers Mary
From:Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <<gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <<gpmgroup@gmail.com>>Date:Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 14:03 To:"gnso-igo-ingo-." <<gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org>> Subject:[Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions?
Is the recently published INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? https://www.icann.org/sites/default/files/packages/reserved-names/ingo-identifier-list.xml[icann.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_sites_def...> A cursory look shows names like
gong
karp
mosaic
rare
restored
witness
Gong is an acronym for Gradani organizirano nadgledaju glasan
Karp is an acronym for The Korean Association of Retired Persons
Moisaic is a branding for More Mosaic NGO & Mosaic International NGO
Including rare, restored & witness doesn't sit well with the principal of coexistence.
Best regards,
Paul.
_______________________________________________
Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list
<Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org>
_______________________________________________
Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list
<Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org>
_______________________________________________ Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp>
Permanent protections for INGOs is completely outside the scope of our Charter, especially since it was amended to remove CRP for INGOs. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 24, 2018, at 5:25 PM, Petter Rindforth <petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu<mailto:petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu>> wrote: ...and of course I meant: "also want to remind you all that when it comes to the identification of IGO’s for the IRT Principles..." I don't see a need for our WG to work with identification of INGO's, and for IGO's we have already our own suggestion. Best, Petter -- Petter Rindforth, LL M [cid:49D61470-C55F-44F0-AA45-8F4196542C10] Fenix Legal KB Stureplan 4c, 4tr 114 35 Stockholm Sweden Fax: +46(0)8-4631010 Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360 E-mail: petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu<mailto:petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu> http://www.fenixlegal.eu NOTICE This e-mail message is intended solely for the individual or individuals to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify us by return e-mail. Fenix Legal KB, Sweden, http://www.fenixlegal.eu Thank you 24 januari 2018 22:28:51 +01:00, skrev Petter Rindforth <petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu<mailto:petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu>>: Thanks, Mary for that follow up. I read the question and topic more as to get an updated information on what ECOSOC does in order to keep the list updated (for use by ICANN, etc), and how often that is made even without any specified inputs from INGO’s. As this is more as a practical question on the ongoing and decided procedure, I am happy to check that out and return to you with information – if not Mary has those details already and easy to find. I also want to remind you all that when it comes to the identification of INGO’s for the IRT Principles, I have pointed out at an early stage for the Team that the reference to the GAC list shall not be considered as a guidance also for our WG, as we have at an early stage found that when it comes to domain name disputes, IGO’s need to be identified in a more internationally legally accepted way. Best, Petter -- Petter Rindforth, LL M [cid:49D61470-C55F-44F0-AA45-8F4196542C10] Fenix Legal KB Stureplan 4c, 4tr 114 35 Stockholm Sweden Fax: +46(0)8-4631010 Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360 E-mail: petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu<mailto:petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu> http://www.fenixlegal.eu NOTICE This e-mail message is intended solely for the individual or individuals to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify us by return e-mail. Fenix Legal KB, Sweden, http://www.fenixlegal.eu Thank you 24 januari 2018 18:52:38 +01:00, skrev Mary Wong <mary.wong@icann.org<mailto:mary.wong@icann.org>>: Hello everyone, Please be aware that the GNSO PDP recommendation was very clear, and it was approved both by the GNSO Council (in November 2013) and the Board (in April 2014). The PDP Working Group had specifically stated that, for INGOs (other than the Red Cross and the International Olympic Committee), the applicable names are those INGOs either in General Consultative or Special Consultative status with ECOSOC). You may also wish to note that second level protections for these INGO names are limited to a 90-days claims notification period (i.e. similar to the Trademark Claims service). Even though the Implementation Review Team (IRT) for the PDP (on which Petter is participating) is still in operation, the IRT Principles that were adopted by the GNSO Council in 2016 provide that IRTs “should not be used as a tool to reopen a previously explored policy issue …. unless circumstances have changed and/or new information is available”. At this stage, to reopen the issue for additional policy discussion will mean that a request needs to be made to the GNSO Council. I hope this is helpful. Cheers Mary From: Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com<mailto:gpmgroup@gmail.com>> Date: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 07:01 To: "petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu<mailto:petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu>" <petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu<mailto:petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu>> Cc: "gnso-igo-ingo-." <gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org<mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org>> Subject: Re: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? Petter, This is basic stuff, even without George’s comments, I’m amazed no one picked it up, but with George taking the time to comment it’s unbelievable! How can the IRT team get this fixed? Does it need to go back to the GNSO? Best regards, Paul On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 1:58 PM, Petter Rindforth <petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu<mailto:petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu>> wrote: Hi again, We (the IRT) have a meeting at the Gnso-igo-ingo-ip-irt tomorrow. If there is a specific question regarding the INGO identifier list you would like me to raise, please let me know. Best, Petter -- Petter Rindforth, LL M [cid:image001.png@01D394F9.11CFB970] Fenix Legal KB Stureplan 4c, 4tr 114 35 Stockholm Sweden Fax: +46(0)8-4631010<tel:+46%208%20463%2010%2010> Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360 E-mail: petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu<mailto:petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu> http://www.fenixlegal.eu[fenixlegal.eu]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.fenixlegal.eu&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=ptuZblDFHPATGuFopHrHks7sowLz7jezyLujGFJfg8M&s=Ee-hPk-nRWy8FcGlQ7xIkRXxzF_v3CnUGJkCJeWE9mM&e=> NOTICE This e-mail message is intended solely for the individual or individuals to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify us by return e-mail. Fenix Legal KB, Sweden, http://www.fenixlegal.eu[fenixlegal.eu]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.fenixlegal.eu&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=ptuZblDFHPATGuFopHrHks7sowLz7jezyLujGFJfg8M&s=Ee-hPk-nRWy8FcGlQ7xIkRXxzF_v3CnUGJkCJeWE9mM&e=> Thank you 24 januari 2018 14:09:56 +01:00, skrev Jay Chapman <jay@digimedia.com<mailto:jay@digimedia.com>>: +1 Paul Sincerely, Jay Chapman On Jan 24, 2018 5:41 AM, "Paul Tattersfield" <gpmgroup@gmail.com<mailto:gpmgroup@gmail.com>> wrote: Thank you Mary for confirming the history, that is helpful. I think it shows the dangers of ICANN building policy based on the principle of relying on third party lists especially ones subject to regular revision over time. Gong (2011) Karp (2012) Mosaic (2013) Witness (2013) Rare (2015) Restored (2016) I think it also demonstrates how bad policy can evolve out of trying to create quick fix solutions only perceived as necessary as a result of other unrelated flawed approaches. Not good – someone should have been on top of this. Best regards, Paul. On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 2:20 AM, Mary Wong <mary.wong@icann.org<mailto:mary.wong@icann.org>> wrote: Hello Paul and everyone, The list of INGOs is that of the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), and the GNSO PDP recommendation was to use the ECOSOC list. As such, it is not up to ICANN to make changes to that list; additions, modifications and deletions are determined under the applicable UN rules for organizations obtaining or maintaining recognition (e.g. general or consultative status) with ECOSOC. The staff understanding is that any updates needing to be made to the ICANN list as a result of changes to the ECOSOC list will be handled through the UN’s Department of Economic and Social Affairs (DESA). Cheers Mary From: Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org>> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com<mailto:gpmgroup@gmail.com>> Date: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 14:03 To: "gnso-igo-ingo-." <gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org<mailto:gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org>> Subject: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? Is the recently published INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? https://www.icann.org/sites/default/files/packages/reserved-names/ingo-identifier-list.xml[http://icann.org]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_sites_default_files_packages_reserved-2Dnames_ingo-2Didentifier-2Dlist.xml&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=ZHelugwDlnz3X92N6KrDyyvuK2Rzt6IFt7uLvTr9ZM4&s=Nhzg0poKNZr6aRnDjt917fA-WZ0KJ58OTvEXOmsXMuk&e=> A cursory look shows names like gong karp mosaic rare restored witness Gong is an acronym for Gradani organizirano nadgledaju glasan Karp is an acronym for The Korean Association of Retired Persons Moisaic is a branding for More Mosaic NGO & Mosaic International NGO Including rare, restored & witness doesn't sit well with the principal of coexistence. Best regards, Paul. _______________________________________________ Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp _______________________________________________ Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp _______________________________________________ Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp _______________________________________________ Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp
I think sometimes it’s helpful to look at the bigger picture and see the complexities and consequences that arise when those building a framework ignore fundamental principles and to try and understand how such failings can be avoided in the future. I think it is also helpful to understand what is involved with correcting any failings during the implementation stage. If all of our outcome recommendations do no harm rather than tilting the balance between competing interests then removing INGOs from the charter may have been an error as it limits any good we can do to a far smaller number of interested parties. On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 11:20 PM, Corwin, Philip via Gnso-igo-ingo-crp < gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> wrote:
Permanent protections for INGOs is completely outside the scope of our Charter, especially since it was amended to remove CRP for INGOs.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 24, 2018, at 5:25 PM, Petter Rindforth < petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu> wrote:
...and of course I meant:
"also want to remind you all that when it comes to the identification of *IGO*’s for the IRT Principles..."
I don't see a need for our WG to work with identification of INGO's, and for *IGO's *we have already our own suggestion.
Best, Petter
-- Petter Rindforth, LL M
Fenix Legal KB Stureplan 4c, 4tr 114 35 Stockholm Sweden Fax: +46(0)8-4631010 <+46%208%20463%2010%2010> Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360 E-mail: petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu http://www.fenixlegal.eu
NOTICE This e-mail message is intended solely for the individual or individuals to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify us by return e-mail. Fenix Legal KB, Sweden, http://www.fenixlegal.eu Thank you
24 januari 2018 22:28:51 +01:00, skrev Petter Rindforth < petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu>:
Thanks, Mary for that follow up.
I read the question and topic more as to get an updated information on what ECOSOC does in order to keep the list updated (for use by ICANN, etc), and how often that is made even without any specified inputs from INGO’s. As this is more as a practical question on the ongoing and decided procedure, I am happy to check that out and return to you with information – if not Mary has those details already and easy to find.
I also want to remind you all that when it comes to the identification of INGO’s for the IRT Principles, I have pointed out at an early stage for the Team that the reference to the GAC list shall not be considered as a guidance also for our WG, as we have at an early stage found that when it comes to domain name disputes, IGO’s need to be identified in a more internationally legally accepted way.
Best, Petter -- Petter Rindforth, LL M
Fenix Legal KB Stureplan 4c, 4tr 114 35 Stockholm Sweden Fax: +46(0)8-4631010 <+46%208%20463%2010%2010> Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360 E-mail: petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu http://www.fenixlegal.eu
NOTICE This e-mail message is intended solely for the individual or individuals to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify us by return e-mail. Fenix Legal KB, Sweden, http://www.fenixlegal.eu Thank you
24 januari 2018 18:52:38 +01:00, skrev Mary Wong <mary.wong@icann.org>:
Hello everyone,
Please be aware that the GNSO PDP recommendation was very clear, and it was approved both by the GNSO Council (in November 2013) and the Board (in April 2014). The PDP Working Group had specifically stated that, for INGOs (other than the Red Cross and the International Olympic Committee), the applicable names are those INGOs either in General Consultative or Special Consultative status with ECOSOC). You may also wish to note that second level protections for these INGO names are limited to a 90-days claims notification period (i.e. similar to the Trademark Claims service).
Even though the Implementation Review Team (IRT) for the PDP (on which Petter is participating) is still in operation, the IRT Principles that were adopted by the GNSO Council in 2016 provide that IRTs “should not be used as a tool to reopen a previously explored policy issue …. unless circumstances have changed and/or new information is available”.
At this stage, to reopen the issue for additional policy discussion will mean that a request needs to be made to the GNSO Council.
I hope this is helpful.
Cheers
Mary
*From: *Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com> *Date: *Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 07:01 *To: *"petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu" <petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu> *Cc: *"gnso-igo-ingo-." <gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> *Subject: *Re: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions?
Petter,
This is basic stuff, even without George’s comments, I’m amazed no one picked it up, but with George taking the time to comment it’s unbelievable!
How can the IRT team get this fixed? Does it need to go back to the GNSO?
Best regards,
Paul
On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 1:58 PM, Petter Rindforth < petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu> wrote:
Hi again,
We (the IRT) have a meeting at the Gnso-igo-ingo-ip-irt tomorrow.
If there is a specific question regarding the INGO identifier list you would like me to raise, please let me know.
Best,
Petter
--
Petter Rindforth, LL M
Fenix Legal KB
Stureplan 4c, 4tr
114 35 Stockholm
Sweden
Fax: +46(0)8-4631010 <+46%208%20463%2010%2010>
Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360
E-mail: petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu
http://www.fenixlegal.eu[fenixlegal.eu] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.fenixlegal.eu&d=DwMF...>
NOTICE
This e-mail message is intended solely for the individual or individuals to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify us by return e-mail.
Fenix Legal KB, Sweden, http://www.fenixlegal.eu[fenixlegal.eu] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.fenixlegal.eu&d=DwMF...>
Thank you
24 januari 2018 14:09:56 +01:00, skrev Jay Chapman <jay@digimedia.com>:
+1 Paul
Sincerely,
Jay Chapman
On Jan 24, 2018 5:41 AM, "Paul Tattersfield" <gpmgroup@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Mary for confirming the history, that is helpful.
I think it shows the dangers of ICANN building policy based on the principle of relying on third party lists especially ones subject to regular revision over time.
Gong (2011)
Karp (2012)
Mosaic (2013)
Witness (2013)
Rare (2015)
Restored (2016)
I think it also demonstrates how bad policy can evolve out of trying to create quick fix solutions only perceived as necessary as a result of other unrelated flawed approaches.
Not good – someone should have been on top of this.
Best regards,
Paul.
On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 2:20 AM, Mary Wong <mary.wong@icann.org> wrote:
Hello Paul and everyone,
The list of INGOs is that of the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), and the GNSO PDP recommendation was to use the ECOSOC list. As such, it is not up to ICANN to make changes to that list; additions, modifications and deletions are determined under the applicable UN rules for organizations obtaining or maintaining recognition (e.g. general or consultative status) with ECOSOC. The staff understanding is that any updates needing to be made to the ICANN list as a result of changes to the ECOSOC list will be handled through the UN’s Department of Economic and Social Affairs (DESA).
Cheers
Mary
*From: *Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com> *Date: *Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 14:03 *To: *"gnso-igo-ingo-." <gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> *Subject: *[Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions?
Is the recently published INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? https://www.icann.org/sites/default/files/packages/reserved-names/ingo- identifier-list.xml[http://icann.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_sites_def...>
A cursory look shows names like
gong
karp
mosaic
rare
restored
witness
Gong is an acronym for Gradani organizirano nadgledaju glasan
Karp is an acronym for The Korean Association of Retired Persons
Moisaic is a branding for More Mosaic NGO & Mosaic International NGO
Including rare, restored & witness doesn't sit well with the principal of coexistence.
Best regards,
Paul.
_______________________________________________
Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list
Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org
https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp
_______________________________________________
Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list
Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org
https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp
_______________________________________________ Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp
_______________________________________________ Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp
_______________________________________________ Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp
Thank you Mary, While the GNSP PDP recommendation may state as much, there seems no reason why we cannot address the issue in our report. I for one (and many others including Petter) have voiced objection to any policy change that would grant INGOs added rights based upon their appearing in such lists. IMHO such lists are entirely unofficial and subject to change at any time. Further, as I understand it, an INGO can remain on the list even if another government objects. Finally, there is no requirement that the asserted moniker be a unique identifier or limited to the formal name of the INGO. This was one of the reasons I stated my objection to the creation of any special remedial process. Paul From: Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Mary Wong <mary.wong@icann.org> Date: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 6:52 PM To: Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com>, "petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu" <petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu> Cc: "gnso-igo-ingo-." <gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions?
Hello everyone,
Please be aware that the GNSO PDP recommendation was very clear, and it was approved both by the GNSO Council (in November 2013) and the Board (in April 2014). The PDP Working Group had specifically stated that, for INGOs (other than the Red Cross and the International Olympic Committee), the applicable names are those INGOs either in General Consultative or Special Consultative status with ECOSOC). You may also wish to note that second level protections for these INGO names are limited to a 90-days claims notification period (i.e. similar to the Trademark Claims service).
Even though the Implementation Review Team (IRT) for the PDP (on which Petter is participating) is still in operation, the IRT Principles that were adopted by the GNSO Council in 2016 provide that IRTs ³should not be used as a tool to reopen a previously explored policy issue . unless circumstances have changed and/or new information is available².
At this stage, to reopen the issue for additional policy discussion will mean that a request needs to be made to the GNSO Council.
I hope this is helpful.
Cheers Mary
From: Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com> Date: Wednesday, January 24, 2018 at 07:01 To: "petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu" <petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu> Cc: "gnso-igo-ingo-." <gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions?
Petter,
This is basic stuff, even without George¹s comments, I¹m amazed no one picked it up, but with George taking the time to comment it¹s unbelievable!
How can the IRT team get this fixed? Does it need to go back to the GNSO? Best regards,
Paul
On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 1:58 PM, Petter Rindforth <petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu> wrote:
Hi again,
We (the IRT) have a meeting at the Gnso-igo-ingo-ip-irt tomorrow.
If there is a specific question regarding the INGO identifier list you would like me to raise, please let me know.
Best,
Petter
--
Petter Rindforth, LL M
Fenix Legal KB
Stureplan 4c, 4tr
114 35 Stockholm
Sweden
Fax: +46(0)8-4631010 <tel:+46%208%20463%2010%2010>
Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360
E-mail: petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu
www.fenixlegal.eu[fenixlegal.eu] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.fenixlegal.eu&d=DwMF aQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3 xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=ptuZblDFHPATGuFopHrHks7sowLz7jezyLujGFJfg8M&s=Ee-hPk-nRWy 8FcGlQ7xIkRXxzF_v3CnUGJkCJeWE9mM&e=>
NOTICE
This e-mail message is intended solely for the individual or individuals to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify us by return e-mail.
Fenix Legal KB, Sweden, www.fenixlegal.eu[fenixlegal.eu] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.fenixlegal.eu&d=DwMF aQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6c2w3 xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=ptuZblDFHPATGuFopHrHks7sowLz7jezyLujGFJfg8M&s=Ee-hPk-nRWy 8FcGlQ7xIkRXxzF_v3CnUGJkCJeWE9mM&e=>
Thank you
24 januari 2018 14:09:56 +01:00, skrev Jay Chapman <jay@digimedia.com>:
+1 Paul
Sincerely,
Jay Chapman
On Jan 24, 2018 5:41 AM, "Paul Tattersfield" <gpmgroup@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you Mary for confirming the history, that is helpful.
I think it shows the dangers of ICANN building policy based on the principle of relying on third party lists especially ones subject to regular revision over time.
Gong (2011)
Karp (2012)
Mosaic (2013)
Witness (2013)
Rare (2015)
Restored (2016)
I think it also demonstrates how bad policy can evolve out of trying to create quick fix solutions only perceived as necessary as a result of other unrelated flawed approaches.
Not good someone should have been on top of this.
Best regards,
Paul.
On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 2:20 AM, Mary Wong <mary.wong@icann.org> wrote:
Hello Paul and everyone,
The list of INGOs is that of the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), and the GNSO PDP recommendation was to use the ECOSOC list. As such, it is not up to ICANN to make changes to that list; additions, modifications and deletions are determined under the applicable UN rules for organizations obtaining or maintaining recognition (e.g. general or consultative status) with ECOSOC. The staff understanding is that any updates needing to be made to the ICANN list as a result of changes to the ECOSOC list will be handled through the UN¹s Department of Economic and Social Affairs (DESA).
Cheers
Mary
From: Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com> Date: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 14:03 To: "gnso-igo-ingo-." <gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> Subject: [Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions?
Is the recently published INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? https://www.icann.org/sites/default/files/packages/reserved-names/ingo-ide ntifier-list.xml[icann.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_sites_ default_files_packages_reserved-2Dnames_ingo-2Didentifier-2Dlist.xml&d=DwM FaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DJ69mAe-idEhpAMF1nu2x6 c2w3xl7xb5cjS_7sB4h6Y&m=ZHelugwDlnz3X92N6KrDyyvuK2Rzt6IFt7uLvTr9ZM4&s=Nhzg 0poKNZr6aRnDjt917fA-WZ0KJ58OTvEXOmsXMuk&e=>
A cursory look shows names like
gong
karp
mosaic
rare
restored
witness
Gong is an acronym for Gradani organizirano nadgledaju glasan
Karp is an acronym for The Korean Association of Retired Persons
Moisaic is a branding for More Mosaic NGO & Mosaic International NGO
Including rare, restored & witness doesn't sit well with the principal of coexistence.
Best regards,
Paul.
_______________________________________________
Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list
Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org
_______________________________________________
Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list
Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org
_______________________________________________ Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp
Hi, Just an additional comment toMary’s clarification: You can see the full Policy at: <https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/igo-ingo-protection-policy-2018-01-16-...> “3.5. INGO Identifier Listrefers to a list containing second level, exact match, full names of protected INGOs and their correspondingDNSlabels that are permitted to participate in the 90-day INGO Claims Notification process.”See also: “5.1.10. INGO Identifier List Changes.Names may be added to or deleted from the INGO Identifier List.ICANNwill consult with the United Nations Department of Economic and Social Affairs about proposed changes to INGO names on the INGO Identifier List.”Meaning that ICANN will refer to the said list and trust that United Nations is the best source to keep it updated (including decisions on who can be added or shall be deleted). When it comes to Red Cross, IOC and IGO identifier list, ICANN will consult with GAC and GNSO. Best, Petter -- Petter Rindforth, LL M Fenix Legal KB Stureplan 4c, 4tr 114 35 Stockholm Sweden Fax: +46(0)8-4631010 Direct phone: +46(0)702-369360 E-mail: petter.rindforth@fenixlegal.eu www.fenixlegal.eu NOTICE This e-mail message is intended solely for the individual or individuals to whom it is addressed. It may contain confidential attorney-client privileged information and attorney work product. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are requested not to read, copy or distribute it or any of the information it contains. Please delete it immediately and notify us by return e-mail. Fenix Legal KB, Sweden, www.fenixlegal.eu Thank you 24 januari 2018 03:20:04 +01:00, skrev Mary Wong <mary.wong@icann.org>:
Hello Paul and everyone,
The list of INGOs is that of the United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC), and the GNSO PDP recommendation was to use the ECOSOC list. As such, it is not up to ICANN to make changes to that list; additions, modifications and deletions are determined under the applicable UN rules for organizations obtaining or maintaining recognition (e.g. general or consultative status) with ECOSOC. The staff understanding is that any updates needing to be made to the ICANN list as a result of changes to the ECOSOC list will be handled through the UN’s Department of Economic and Social Affairs (DESA).
Cheers Mary
From:Gnso-igo-ingo-crp <gnso-igo-ingo-crp-bounces@icann.org> on behalf of Paul Tattersfield <gpmgroup@gmail.com> Date:Tuesday, January 23, 2018 at 14:03 To:"gnso-igo-ingo-." <gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org> Subject:[Gnso-igo-ingo-crp] Is the INGO Identifier List subject to revisions?
Is the recently published INGO Identifier List subject to revisions? https://www.icann.org/sites/default/files/packages/reserved-names/ingo-identifier-list.xml[icann.org] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_sites_def...>
A cursory look shows names like
gong karp mosaic rare restored witness
Gong is an acronym for Gradani organizirano nadgledaju glasan
Karp is an acronym for The Korean Association of Retired Persons
Moisaic is a branding for More Mosaic NGO & Mosaic International NGO
Including rare, restored & witness doesn't sit well with the principal of coexistence.
Best regards,
Paul.
_______________________________________________ Gnso-igo-ingo-crp mailing list Gnso-igo-ingo-crp@icann.org <https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-igo-ingo-crp>
participants (7)
-
Corwin, Philip -
George Kirikos -
Jay Chapman -
Mary Wong -
Paul Keating -
Paul Tattersfield -
Petter Rindforth