Wholeheartedly agree with Mason here. I would even go further and say that I believe some of the more troublesome decisions made by the NGPC can be directly linked to the fact that, as a rule, anyone with any experience in the gTLD process is excluded on the ground of potential conflict. Conflicts are bad, but depriving yourself of experience is even worse in my view, especially since any subsequent round should learn from past experience and, yes, mistakes. Speaking of experience and horse racing, and by way of a long overdue introduction, I have been in the ICANN world since 2001, successively as a ccTLD Registry representative, a gTLD Registrar (where I was blessed to serve as Vice-Chair of the RSG alongside Jon and Mason), I founded a Registry Service Provider (home of 21 gTLDs in this round) and I am now managing the operations of a gTLD applicant whose parent company is a Registry Escrow Provider. And, yes, I am a Lawyer :-) I am delighted to be part of this group and hope, as Liz said, that we can start working pretty quickly. All the best, JC Le 08/08/14 09:03, « Mason Cole » <mason@donuts.co<mailto:mason@donuts.co>> a écrit : I agree with Ron that a chair and vice chair are appropriate for a group this size. I also agree with Rubens, Tobias and Craig. Speaking frankly, everyone has a horse in the race of some kind and I don't think it's necessary to predetermine interests of a potential chair by assigning it to a contracted or non-contracted party. The chair, as is the case with ICANN working / discussion groups, has a duty to neutrality and a primary role of facilitating the work. I prefer not to worry about interests and instead vest some trust in the chair and indeed, begin our work, which will be substantial. On Aug 8, 2014, at 8:34 AM, Liz Williams wrote: Couldn't we just get on and do the work...it is not as if any decisions that bind anyone will be made and there is a LONG way it go before this turns into a new iteration of a guidebook. There isn't any need to hang about and wait for anything...even if some parts of half the world might still be taking short summer vacations... Liz ... Liz Williams tldomainsolutions@gmail.com<mailto:tldomainsolutions@gmail.com> m: +44 7824877757 t: +44 1392 581 214 w: www.lizwilliams.net<http://www.lizwilliams.net/> On 8 Aug 2014, at 15:15, "Ron Andruff" <randruff@rnapartners.com<mailto:randruff@rnapartners.com>> wrote: Dear all, I apologize for initiating an unintended divide. Perhaps I can push this discussion in another direction. How do folks feel about a non-contracted party Chair? That would put some distance between some of the things Stephane has highlighted and perhaps satisfy those who would like to see ‘unconflicted’ as much as possible. Optically, that might also fit the bill. Regarding how many, i.e., 1 Chair with V Chairs or 2 Co-Chairs, etc. if I understood Brett’s and Matt’s original mail, this group is expected to raise as many issues as possible and formulate them into some type of cogent document that will live on past this ‘Discussion Group’ – hence the name. That is to say, I understand that this is really preliminary work. If in fact that is the case, one Chair, with one V Chair (should the Chair be absent) would probably suffice, in my view. Kind regards, RA Ron Andruff ONR Consulting, Inc. From:gnso-newgtld-dg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-dg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-newgtld-dg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Stephane Van Gelder Sent: Friday, August 8, 2014 05:26 To: Tobias Sattler Cc: gnso-newgtld-dg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-dg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-dg] Agenda for First Meeting of the DiscussionGroup for New gTLD Subsequent Rounds I am conflicted here (pun intended). On the one hand, I have never agreed with the self-flagellation that ICANN imposed on itself (starting with the Board) over conflicts of interest. To be blunt, there are very few active ICANN community participants who have no horse in whatever race is being discussed at the time. What agonizing over conflicts of interests has done IMO, is ensure that the people with the right amount of knowledge are kept at arm's length and therefore cannot bring that knowledge to useful community debates. On the other hand, I think it's very hard in this instance to argue with Ron's points on optics. A group discussing the second round that selects as its chair a registry or registrar might pose problems in this regard. Contradictory I know... Also, we may choose someone who appears to have no conflict now, and who turns out to be an applicant in the second round! There's just no way of knowing that now. The person in question might not even know, because plans and business opportunities change... This is why in the past, I've tended to advocate a non anal approach to COIs. But once again, I see Ron's point... Best, Stéphane Van Gelder Milathan LTD "Internet Intelligence - Strategic Advice" ---------------- Discover The Milathan Post on http://post.milathan.com<http://post.milathan.com/> On 8 August 2014 08:57, Tobias Sattler <sattler@united-domains.de<mailto:sattler@united-domains.de>> wrote: I tend to agree with Craig and Rubens. From my personal perspective I don’t think we would find a person that has no horse in the race, because then this person wouldn’t be part of this DG in the first place. Furthermore I second the suggestion from Michele and Jeff of holding off on selection / election. We do have an interim Chair and not hurry. Tobias On 07.08.2014, at 20:27, Craig Schwartz <craig@ftld.com<mailto:craig@ftld.com>> wrote: Agree with Ruben that being a registry (prospective, incumbent or future applicant) does not bring conflict. Good luck finding someone in our very small space that couldn't be accused of some form of conflict. Craig Schwartz Managing Director fTLD Registry Services, LLC 600 13th Street, NW Suite 400 Washington, DC 20005 Office: +1 202 589 2532 Cell: +1 202 236 1154<tel:%2B1%20202%20236%201154> Skype: craig-schwartz Twitter: ftld_Registry Please visit us at www.ftld.com<http://www.ftld.com/> On Thu, 7 Aug 2014 15:06:49 -0300, Rubens Kuhl<rubensk@nic.br<mailto:rubensk@nic.br>> wrote: Ron, I disagree. Being a registry (prospective, incumbent or future applicant) does not bring conflict. Following my suggestion of having 2 leadership positions (whether is chair/vice-chair, co-chairs etc.), I think it would be good to have one from each house (contracted parties and non-contracted parties). The idea of having no horses in the race would make everybody conflicted, as even current end-user registrants could be seen as conflicted since some people argue that the more new gTLDs there are, the less his or her domain is worth; every stakeholder has an interest in the program, but having an interest is different from having a conflict of interest. Rubens Em 07/08/2014, à(s) 14:59:000, Ron Andruff<randruff@rnapartners.com<mailto:randruff@rnapartners.com>> escreveu: Dear colleagues, My thought on the election of leadership is more focused on process, i.e., the Chair, V Chairs, or whatever the group decides is best, should be unconflicted. That is to say, they should neither be applicants nor new registries. Within the long list of members, I am sure that we can select those that have no horses in the race, as they say. In this way both the work and the optics will demonstrate transparency and accountability in an appropriate manner. My two cents… RA Ron Andruff ONR Consulting, Inc. From: gnso-newgtld-dg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-dg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-newgtld-dg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Eckhaus Sent: Wednesday, August 6, 2014 11:08 To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight Cc: gnso-newgtld-dg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-dg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-dg] Agenda for First Meeting of the Discussion Group for New gTLD Subsequent Rounds I second the suggestion of holding off on selection/election until the group fills out Jeff On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight<michele@blacknight.com<mailto:michele@blacknight.com>> wrote: Everyone should have an SOI If they don't have one setting one up is not hard .. I'd also respectfully suggest that any election / choice of DG leaders be deferred I suspect that the group's make up will change between now and September as people come back from holidays etc and become aware of the group's existence Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting, Colocation& Domains http://www.blacknight.co/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.technology.ie<http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072<tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2059%C2%A0%209183072> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090<tel:%2B353%20%280%2959%209183090> Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 From: gnso-newgtld-dg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-dg-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:gnso-newgtld-dg-bounces@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-dg-bounces@icann.org>] On Behalf Of Rubens Kuhl Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 12:13 AM To: gnso-newgtld-dg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-newgtld-dg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-newgtld-dg] Agenda for First Meeting of the Discussion Group for New gTLD Subsequent Rounds be of an introductory nature. The proposed agenda is: * Roll Call / Statements of Interest Suggestion: only reading SoI for people that do not have GNSO SOIs (or have updates to), to shorten up this part. * Applicability of ICANN principles of transparency and openness * Items for initial review - GNSO Resolution forming this group, GNSO Working Group Guidelines, GNSO Policy Development Process (to serve as a reference point for the DG) * Discussion of Work Plan – Review of Interim Chair's Draft Work Plan and discussion of alternatives and tools for completing work * Election of DG Leaders – The DG may elect to have co-chairs or vice-chairs. Once selected, the DG Chair(s) will need to be confirmed by the GNSO Council. May I suggest that no attempt to see vice-chairs as representation of that constituency in the group ? It's so much simpler to have 2 (either chair/vice-chair, co-chair/co-chair, chair/alternate chair) leaders instead of a complex structure... since *-chairs only have coordination but no definition role, it's of no use to see too much into the roles. Rubens _______________________________________________ Gnso-newgtld-dg mailing list Gnso-newgtld-dg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-newgtld-dg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-newgtld-dg Please NOTE: This electronic message, including any attachments, may include privileged, confidential and/or inside information owned by Rightside Group, Ltd. Any distribution or use of this communication by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender by replying to this message and then delete it from your system. 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