- Gnso-newgtld-wg-wt4 - lists.icann.org

Tentative presentation on name collisions
by Rubens Kuhl May 12, 2017

May 12, 2017

Although not yet confirmed to happen, I would like to call WT4 attention to a presentation that might occur tomorrow during the first edition of new ICANN event, DNS Symposium. https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/prelim-agenda-dns-symposium-02m… 1610 - 1630 Tentative: New Datasets Available for Colliding Domains Jeff Schmidt That's local Madrid time. The link to participate via Adobe is https://participate.icann.org/ids/ and https://www.myrcplus.com/cnums.asp?bwebid=8369444&ppc=3801410560&num=1-605-… ( passcode 3801410560) for the phone bridge. I'll try to confirm tomorrow whether it will happen or not and post the information here, but since it's on a Saturday, I thought it was better to give a heads up today. Rubens

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Work Track 4 agenda for 4 May 2017
by Rubens Kuhl May 9, 2017

May 9, 2017

Dear WT4 members, The next call for the New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Sub Team – Track 4 - IDNs/Technical & Operations will take place for 60 minutes on Thursday, 4 May 2017 at 03:00 UTC, 04:00 London, 05:00 Brussels; Wednesday, 3 May 2017 20:00 Los Angeles, 23:00 Washington. For other times: http://migre.me/wwanH The proposed agenda is as follows: 1. Welcome 2. SOIs 3. Recap of name collision definitions and advices prior to 2012 application window 4. Recap of 2012-round collision measures (provisional and final) 5. Description of possible policy options expressed in CC2 questions 6. Differences between 2012 implementation and SAC066 SSAC Advice (time permitting) 7. AOB Adobe Connect room: https://participate.icann.org/newgtldsubteams/ You can connect your audio by following instructions in the pop up in the AC room, or use the Connect Me option that will be sent in the calendar invitation. Best, CLO & Rubens

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Actions/Discussion Notes: Work Track 4 Sub Team Meeting 04 May
by Julie Hedlund May 4, 2017

May 4, 2017

Dear Sub Team Members, Please see below the action items and discussion notes captured by staff from the meeting on 04 May. These high-level notes are designed to help Work Track Sub Team members navigate through the content of the call and are not meant to be a substitute for the recording. Please also see the recording on the meetings page at: https://community.icann.org/display/NGSPP/Work+Track+4+Meetings. Note also that the referenced slides for today’s meeting are attached and excerpts from the chat room are included. Best regards, Julie Julie Hedlund, Policy Director Action Items/Discussion Notes 04 May 1. Full WG Update: -- Just sent out our full comment to the CCT-RT he full WG comment. -- Next call is after next week. 2. Name Collisions: Slide 6: -- Like the way the SSAC described a name collision. Expecting a certain response. Slide 7: Name Collisions: New Name, Old Phenomena -- Was controlled interruption was ever applied? Was that used? -- Some resolvers got responses that they sent to their users. -- TLDs that launched early were given names to block. in the first 90 days they were given a wild card and any queries would get a wild card. Would get an ICANN resource page - a result that would look unusual to an administrator. Controlled interuption was in every new gTL. Slide 9: Name Collisions after the application window: Slide 10: Name Collisions after the applications window (2): >From the chat: Jeff Neuman: I am not sure I understand the second bullet. Do we need to state what causes it? Slide 13: CC2 Questions: -- Comment: Name Collision issues are not "one size fits all". There needs to be coordination between ICANN and the IETF and also an update to the JAS report. -- Updated dated on the number of updated collisions. Not sure we need one size fits all. If you look at the very first string those did not result in a large number of collisions except for .home, .corp, and .mail. -- Except for IDNs in an internal network. -- If those high risk TLDs would be delegated do they require a different high-risk TLD mitigation framework. Still being decided by ICANN. -- Now there are a lot of questions about collisions. -- Patrik Faltstrom will join on the next call. >From the chat: Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): @Jeff - probably so if we intend to explore possible remediation "fixess" to address it. Jeff Neuman: I do not believe we will be exploring what fixes it, but rather just how to mitigate it when it happens. All of the causes are outside the control of ICANN, the Registries, Registrars, etc. Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): @ Jeff - I was referring to "mitigation" as "fixes" - sorry for the short-hand. Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): So you beleive we need to state that the issues caused by software attempting prediction from partial text which is "caused by software behaviior trying to ... ... ... " in different terms OR expplore why this results in collision risk more? Rubens Kuhl: 045 Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): Party expects he or she is still on internal server but they land on an external server? avri doria: Well perhaps in the same way the UA effort is trying to change external behavior to make IDN work better, there could be a recommendation made on the creation of a simalr process for collisions. Not perhaps a binding recommendation but perhaps an useful ancilliary recommendation. i like what 45 says about warning applicants, perhaps a step beyond that is trying to change the bahaviors that casue them. vitor zhang: I think this name collision problem must be fixed before the NEXT ROUND of New gTLD application. Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): Excellent point in terms of proposals from our WT for the PDP Plenary to consider Avri... Thanks Jeff Neuman: There is a bunch of resources at www.icann.org/namecollision Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): Noted Vitor, I suspect SSAC would agree with you that it needs to be áddressed' which may as Avri is outlining be warnings as oppossed to actual mitigations per se. Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): and some flexabiliity might be well worth exploring as well Jeff Neuman: Controlled interruption was applied in all new gTLDs Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): Weren't there some mitigation steps taken for other TLDs in the first round? In other words, "controlled interruption" applied for a certain period? vitor zhang: Thank U, CLO Rubens Kuhl: Anne, please note that some people call 2000-round the first round and other people say that about 2012. So I, personally, prefer to refer to the year of the process. Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): COMMENT: Per SSAC "name collisions will always be with us". So it's a question of degree and frequency. That's apparently why JAS Advisors recommended permanent reservation of certain TLD names. COMMENT Jeff Neuman: The JAS final report agreed with the fact that there will always be collisions....but there are still more collisions in .com. In addition, collisions occur once a name is deleted and re-registered avri doria: but it should take a policy process to determine how to implement such an SSAC proposal. i.e the reason we need to look at it. In the round of '12, it was all handled directly by the Board without community comment. Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): Agree Avri - Board delegated decisions to subset of Board that did not have conflicts of interest - New gTLD Program Committee or something like that. vitor zhang: I really think namecollision problem should not be some people's excuse for blocking competitors …… Jessica Hooper: Any path forward with regard to Name Collision should be navigated with the SSAC advising the community. Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): Agree with Jessica on this. Jeff Neuman: @Jessica - we will be discussing the the SSAC on the next call. Jeff Neuman: But I am not sure they will necessarily take this issue up for new advice Jeff Neuman: We cannot force items onto their agenda Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): Jessica that view is why we are pleased to have Ptrick join our WT for the next call to better 'bring us all up to speed, and to progress our discussions on this important matter... Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): COMMENT: SSAC has issued new advice in SSAC 90. They discussed this with the Board in Copenhagen. COMMENT Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): and Yes I am biased here ;-) Jessica Hooper: @Jeff & Cheryl - Perfect! I know we can't force it, but it's in their best interest to discuss this. Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): This next meeting of our WT will be just after the CC2 inputs come in so we will have additional input to consider from the communities within ICANN to cinsider as well Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): QUESTION: Why would we NOT get an update from JAS Advisors? QUESTION Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): QUESTION: SSAC said we should coordinate with IETF and others. Can Patrik or someone else within ICANN get us the IETF list of special reserved names? QUESTION avri doria: that list is already folded into the ICANN list. Jeff Neuman: I think (personally) that if we reduced the controlled interruption period to 60 days (which JAS seemed to indicate was fine), then the 1 size fits all should not be an issue avri doria: and the closer coordination with IETf is one of the thing that is being recommended. Therre is also work inside IETF to try and get thsi coordinated. Jeff Neuman: The IETF List of names is published in an RFC, but as Avri said there may be more under consideration Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): @ Jeff - You may be referring to JAS Advice on names not permanently reserved when you talk about the 60 day period. Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): Personally @Avri I think that would be very helpful Jeff Neuman: @Anne - yes. Jeff Neuman: @Avri - the question is whether the IETf wants to coordinate with ICANN :) Steve Chan: @Anne, there are a collection of questions developed by this WT directed at JAS, which were sent to GDD. We are still awaiting a formal response from GDD. Their initial feedback is that the questions likely represent new work and would therefore require a new contract.. New research requests are something this WG can consider, but comments like Jeff's about the existing framework appearing to be a once size fits all solution, should be taken into account. That said, I'll be sure to continue to remind GDD that they owe the WT a response. avri doria: yes, they add names through the RFC6761 process. i think there is one moving forward at the moment .alt. there a 6761 on on .homenet, but that has been changed to .home.arpa. it is something i, among others, do follow. Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): COMMENT: One question to SSAC (Patrik) in advance of the call is whether SSAC is making efforts now to coordinate with IETF on name collisions. COMMENT avri doria: at the moment, the main coorination point is those who particpate in both efforts. vitor zhang: Is there any new data updated for name collision study , if new method or study tech has been introduced for this problem ？ avri doria: SSAC would advise, other would decide how to coordinate. Jeff Neuman: I just went to alt.com to see if that was a brand or someone that would mind......DO NOT Go to ALT.COM.......it is not an appropriate site :)

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FW: [Ntfy-gnso-newgtld-wg-wt4] CALL STARTING IN 3 MINUTES: Meeting Invitation: New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Sub Team Track 4 IDNs/Technical & Operations on Thursday, 04 May 2017 at 03:00 UTC
by Terri Agnew May 3, 2017

May 3, 2017

Hi Anne, I noticed you sent the email to the NTFY list this is only for staff to send meeting invites. I have forwarded your note the gnso-newgtld-wg-wt4(a)icann.org <mailto:gnso-newgtld-wg-wt4@icann.org> email so the group has it. Apologies for any issues muting your line caused and will investigate why raise hand no longer worked. We will certainly do our best to notify the person in private chat when muting the line is needed. Kind regards, Terri From: Aikman-Scalese, Anne [mailto:AAikman@lrrc.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 3, 2017 11:11 PM To: Terri Agnew <terri.agnew(a)icann.org>; ntfy-gnso-newgtld-wg-wt4(a)icann.org Cc: gnso-secs(a)icann.org Subject: [Ext] RE: [Ntfy-gnso-newgtld-wg-wt4] CALL STARTING IN 3 MINUTES: Meeting Invitation: New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Sub Team Track 4 IDNs/Technical & Operations on Thursday, 04 May 2017 at 03:00 UTC Thanks everyone. I note that Jeff was not sure whether JAS Advisors is still around when I suggested we may need to ask for a fresh look (update to their previous report) on name collisions. It appears they are still in business and still consulting on security issues: https://www.jasadvisors.com/[jasadvisors.com] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.jasadvisors.com_&d =DwMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFz L7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=LB7GSq7kbhv7F9c69q320BNw1fuYlbCbDWYESW3eKtM&s=fuLc 6_NdkkKQgqId02nfJC_Hx-U6vneWMS9JLqi_oAI&e=> Separately, toward the end of the call, staff muted my line because I had forgotten to mute it. I did not receive a private chat warning or any other indication that my line would be muted. Would it be too much to ask for a signal in private chat before muting someones line? (I was unable to raise my hand after the involuntary mute.) Thank you, Anne Anne E. Aikman-Scalese Of Counsel 520.629.4428 office 520.879.4725 fax <mailto:AAikman@lrrc.com> AAikman(a)lrrc.com _____________________________ Lewis Roca Rothgerber Christie LLP One South Church Avenue, Suite 700 Tucson, Arizona 85701-1611 <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lrrc.com_&d=DwMF-g&c=Fm Y1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AI gn-H4xR2EBk&m=LB7GSq7kbhv7F9c69q320BNw1fuYlbCbDWYESW3eKtM&s=bHRq-HzcYDPgULJ7 lOjHFY2I8vJ_-PtaV3P4LH6upao&e=> lrrc.com[lrrc.com] From: ntfy-gnso-newgtld-wg-wt4-bounces(a)icann.org <mailto:ntfy-gnso-newgtld-wg-wt4-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ntfy-gnso-newgtld-wg-wt4-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Terri Agnew Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2017 7:58 PM To: ntfy-gnso-newgtld-wg-wt4(a)icann.org <mailto:ntfy-gnso-newgtld-wg-wt4@icann.org> Cc: gnso-secs(a)icann.org <mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org> Subject: [Ntfy-gnso-newgtld-wg-wt4] CALL STARTING IN 3 MINUTES: Meeting Invitation: New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Sub Team Track 4 IDNs/Technical & Operations on Thursday, 04 May 2017 at 03:00 UTC Call starting in three minutes Dear All, The call for the New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Sub Team Track 4 IDNs/Technical & Operations will take place on Thursday, 04 May 2017 at 03:00 UTC for 60 minutes. 20:00 PDT (Wednesday), 23:00 EDT (Wednesday), 04:00 London, 05:00 CEST For other times: http://tinyurl.com/jhnpz5c[tinyurl.com] <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__tinyurl.com_jhnpz5c&d=D wMF-g&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7 ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=LB7GSq7kbhv7F9c69q320BNw1fuYlbCbDWYESW3eKtM&s=loIyVX 1scx4deYazKPsEEALL0_PT0WoJnrAweMAC63g&e=> Adobe Connect room: <https://participate.icann.org/newgtldsubteams/> https://participate.icann.org/newgtldsubteams/ You can connect your audio by following instructions in the pop up in the AC room, or use the Connect Me option below (also sent in the calendar invitation). 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Recording, AC Chat & Attendance from New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Sub Team Track 4 IDNs/Technical & Operations call on Thursday, 04 May 2017 03:00 UTC
by Terri Agnew May 3, 2017

May 3, 2017

Dear All, Please find the attendance and recording of the call attached to this email. The Adobe Connect recording and AC Chat are below for the New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Sub Team – Track 4 – IDNs/Technical & Operations held on Thursday, 04 May 2017 at 03:00 UTC. Adobe Connect recording: <https://participate.icann.org/p12my7m7a3g/?OWASP_CSRFTOKEN=029929868fed1ad2…> https://participate.icann.org/p12my7m7a3g/ The recordings of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt4> http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt4 Agenda Wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/J9TRAw Thank you. Kind regards, Terri ------------------------------- Adobe Connect chat transcript for 04 May 2017 Terri Agnew:Welcome to the New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Sub Team – Track 4 – IDNs/Technical & Operations on Thursday, 04 May 2017 at 03:00 UTC for 60 minutes. Terri Agnew:agenda wiki page: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_… <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_…> &d=DwIFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=DRa2dXAvSFpCIgmkXhFzL7ar9Qfqa0AIgn-H4xR2EBk&m=lHwdrFAKqR2LZNmybdbVgD8BwyTzc4o1mfxG6WavQCw&s=6B9gp6IA6fM1S5QFIpPvQrE980iPbBaMRtnVtBSYCqw&e= Jeff Neuman:Rubens sounded a little quiet to me Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC):Sounds fine Cheryl. Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC):@staff - now getting the echo chamber with Cheryl's voice Jeff Neuman:It now sounds choppy.... Rubens Kuhl:For me too. Rubens Kuhl:Not choppy. Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):audio gremlins Sorry team... Steve Chan:Indeed, next SubPro meeting is 15 May, a full WG meeting at 1500 UTC Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):next slide Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):beat me to it ;-) Jeff Neuman:I am not sure I understand the second bullet. Do we need to state what causes it? Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC):@Jeff - probably so if we intend to explore possible remediation "fixess" to address it. Jeff Neuman:I do not believe we will be exploring what fixes it, but rather just how to mitigate it when it happens. All of the causes are outside the control of ICANN, the Registries, Registrars, etc. Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC):@ Jeff - I was referring to "mitigation" as "fixes" - sorry for the short-hand. Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):So you beleive we need to state that the issues caused by software attempting prediction from partial text which is "caused by software behaviior trying to ... ... ... " in different terms OR expplore why this results in collision risk more? Rubens Kuhl:045 Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC):Party expects he or she is still on internal server but they land on an external server? avri doria:Well perhaps in the same way the UA effort is trying to change external behavior to make IDN work better, there could be a recommendation made on the creation of a simalr process for collisions. Not perhaps a binding recommendation but perhaps an useful ancilliary recommendation. i like what 45 says about warning applicants, perhaps a step beyond that is trying to change the bahaviors that casue them. vitor zhang:I think this name collision problem must be fixed before the NEXT ROUND of New gTLD application. Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):Excellent point in terms of proposals from our WT for the PDP Plenary to consider Avri... Thanks Jeff Neuman:There is a bunch of resources at www.icann.org/namecollision <http://www.icann.org/namecollision> Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):Noted Vitor, I suspect SSAC would agree with you that it needs to be áddressed' which may as Avri is outlining be warnings as oppossed to actual mitigations per se. Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):and some flexabiliity might be well worth exploring as well Jeff Neuman:Controlled interruption was applied in all new gTLDs Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): Weren't there some mitigation steps taken for other TLDs in the first round? In other words, "controlled interruption" applied for a certain period? vitor zhang:Thank U, CLO Rubens Kuhl:Anne, please note that some people call 2000-round the first round and other people say that about 2012. So I, personally, prefer to refer to the year of the process. Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC):COMMENT: Per SSAC "name collisions will always be with us". So it's a question of degree and frequency. That's apparently why JAS Advisors recommended permanent reservation of certain TLD names. COMMENT Jeff Neuman:The JAS final report agreed with the fact that there will always be collisions....but there are still more collisions in .com. In addition, collisions occur once a name is deleted and re-registered avri doria:but it should take a policy process to determine how to implement such an SSAC proposal. i.e the reason we need to look at it. In the round of '12, it was all handled directly by the Board without community comment. Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC):Agree Avri - Board delegated decisions to subset of Board that did not have conflicts of interest - New gTLD Program Committee or something like that. vitor zhang:I really think namecollision problem should not be some people's excuse for blocking competitors …… Jessica Hooper:Any path forward with regard to Name Collision should be navigated with the SSAC advising the community. Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC):Agree with Jessica on this. Jeff Neuman:@Jessica - we will be discussing the the SSAC on the next call. Jeff Neuman:But I am not sure they will necessarily take this issue up for new advice Jeff Neuman:We cannot force items onto their agenda Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):Jessica that view is why we are pleased to have Ptrick join our WT for the next call to better 'bring us all up to speed, and to progress our discussions on this important matter... Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC):COMMENT: SSAC has issued new advice in SSAC 90. They discussed this with the Board in Copenhagen. COMMENT Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):and Yes I am biased here ;-) Jessica Hooper:@Jeff & Cheryl - Perfect! I know we can't force it, but it's in their best interest to discuss this. Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):This next meeting of our WT will be just after the CC2 inputs come in so we will have additional input to consider from the communities within ICANN to cinsider as well Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):and in our best interests to fully understand and explore the SSAC advice given Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC):@Cheryl: Glad to know Patrik will join for next call. Jeff Neuman:I dont read SSAC 90 as offering advice on name collisions per se Jeff Neuman:it talks about coordinating with the IETF on reserved strings Jeff Neuman:but really just refers back to SSAC 62 Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC):@jeff - It also emphasizes predictablility for the end user. There were three strong points made in SSAC 90. Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):Yes Anne we had thst confirmed by emily in our Leadership call earlier today, he was unable to make todays call but can cntribute more time to us in our next meeting :-) Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):sorry it was confirmed by Julie not Emily ( sorry Julie ;-) Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):and Rubins and I thank Julie on bejald of our WT for assisting us with reaching out to SSAC and gaining some time in Patrick's schedule Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):should read behalf *sigh* Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): agree @Jeff some data updates would be apprecited Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC):QUESTION: Why would we NOT get an update from JAS Advisors? QUESTION Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC):QUESTION: SSAC said we should coordinate with IETF and others. Can Patrik or someone else within ICANN get us the IETF list of special reserved names? QUESTION avri doria:that list is already folded into the ICANN list. Jeff Neuman:I think (personally) that if we reduced the controlled interruption period to 60 days (which JAS seemed to indicate was fine), then the 1 size fits all should not be an issue avri doria:and the closer coordination with IETf is one of the thing that is being recommended. Therre is also work inside IETF to try and get thsi coordinated. Jeff Neuman:The IETF List of names is published in an RFC, but as Avri said there may be more under consideration Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC):@ Jeff - You may be referring to JAS Advice on names not permanently reserved when you talk about the 60 day period. Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):Personally @Avri I think that would be very helpful Jeff Neuman:@Anne - yes. Jeff Neuman:@Avri - the question is whether the IETf wants to coordinate with ICANN :) Steve Chan:@Anne, there are a collection of questions developed by this WT directed at JAS, which were sent to GDD. We are still awaiting a formal response from GDD. Their initial feedback is that the questions likely represent new work and would therefore require a new contract.. New research requests are something this WG can consider, but comments like Jeff's about the existing framework appearing to be a once size fits all solution, should be taken into account. That said, I'll be sure to continue to remind GDD that they owe the WT a response. avri doria:yes, they add names through the RFC6761 process. i think there is one moving forward at the moment .alt. there a 6761 on on .homenet, but that has been changed to .home.arpa. it is something i, among others, do follow. Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC):COMMENT: One question to SSAC (Patrik) in advance of the call is whether SSAC is making efforts now to coordinate with IETF on name collisions. COMMENT avri doria:at the moment, the main coorination point is those who particpate in both efforts. vitor zhang:Is there any new data updated for name collision study , if new method or study tech has been introduced for this problem ？ avri doria:SSAC would advise, other would decide how to coordinate. Jeff Neuman:I just went to alt.com to see if that was a brand or someone that would mind......DO NOT Go to ALT.COM.......it is not an appropriate site :) avri doria:(: Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):not an appropriate site ? Jeff Neuman:@CLO - ummm - Lets put it this way. Not safe for work. Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):OK ... Jeff Neuman:@Anne - correct.....we are not disussing .corp, .home or .mail Jeff Neuman:discussing avri doria:i would argue the .corp, .home and .mail are just bigger than the therrs but are indeed fit for one size fits all Jeff Neuman:Who is the IETF liaison to the Board? Jeff Neuman:Can we get them on the phone? avri doria:Jonne Rubens Kuhl:If you can speak Göran correctly, you can take a chance with Jonne... ;-) Julie Hedlund:Not on sound, but Patrik will address this on the call on 25 May. Jeff Neuman:That may be ok, but the SSAC is not a substitute for the IETF (in my opinion) Julie Hedlund:It is addressed in SAC090 avri doria:IETF is not eager to jump into what they consider a political issue. they do technical stuff. Terri Agnew:Next call: New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Sub Team – Track 4 – IDNs/Technical & Operations will take place on Thursday, 25 May 2017 at 15:00 UTC for 60 minutes avri doria:That is why they did not reserve the name as requested by ICANN Jeff Neuman:@Avri - That's interesting as well. they consider it political and not technical? avri doria:yep avri doria:political and financial, both out of bounds for the IETF avri doria:there is not a protocl reason for those names to be reserved. Jeff Neuman:@Avri - that is an important point Jeff Neuman:Thanks everyone! avri doria:bye Edmon:bye Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):Bye THANKS !

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FW: [Ntfy-gnso-newgtld-wg-wt4] CALL STARTING IN 3 MINUTES: Meeting Invitation: New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Sub Team Track 4 IDNs/Technical & Operations on Thursday, 04 May 2017 at 03:00 UTC
by Aikman-Scalese, Anne May 3, 2017

May 3, 2017

Please note message below re JAS Advisors. Thank you, Anne Anne E. Aikman-Scalese Of Counsel 520.629.4428 office 520.879.4725 fax AAikman(a)lrrc.com<mailto:AAikman@lrrc.com> _____________________________ [cid:image004.png@01D2C452.7B392270] Lewis Roca Rothgerber Christie LLP One South Church Avenue, Suite 700 Tucson, Arizona 85701-1611 lrrc.com<http://lrrc.com/> From: Aikman-Scalese, Anne Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2017 9:11 PM To: 'Terri Agnew'; ntfy-gnso-newgtld-wg-wt4(a)icann.org Cc: gnso-secs(a)icann.org Subject: RE: [Ntfy-gnso-newgtld-wg-wt4] CALL STARTING IN 3 MINUTES: Meeting Invitation: New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Sub Team Track 4 IDNs/Technical & Operations on Thursday, 04 May 2017 at 03:00 UTC Thanks everyone. I note that Jeff was not sure whether JAS Advisors is still around when I suggested we may need to ask for a “fresh look” (update to their previous report) on name collisions. It appears they are still in business and still consulting on security issues: https://www.jasadvisors.com/ Separately, toward the end of the call, staff muted my line because I had forgotten to mute it. I did not receive a private chat warning or any other indication that my line would be muted. Would it be too much to ask for a signal in private chat before muting someone’s line? (I was unable to raise my hand after the involuntary mute.) Thank you, Anne Anne E. Aikman-Scalese Of Counsel 520.629.4428 office 520.879.4725 fax AAikman(a)lrrc.com<mailto:AAikman@lrrc.com> _____________________________ [cid:image003.png@01D2C451.B259A460] Lewis Roca Rothgerber Christie LLP One South Church Avenue, Suite 700 Tucson, Arizona 85701-1611 lrrc.com<http://lrrc.com/> From: ntfy-gnso-newgtld-wg-wt4-bounces(a)icann.org<mailto:ntfy-gnso-newgtld-wg-wt4-bounces@icann.org> [mailto:ntfy-gnso-newgtld-wg-wt4-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Terri Agnew Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2017 7:58 PM To: ntfy-gnso-newgtld-wg-wt4(a)icann.org<mailto:ntfy-gnso-newgtld-wg-wt4@icann.org> Cc: gnso-secs(a)icann.org<mailto:gnso-secs@icann.org> Subject: [Ntfy-gnso-newgtld-wg-wt4] CALL STARTING IN 3 MINUTES: Meeting Invitation: New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Sub Team Track 4 IDNs/Technical & Operations on Thursday, 04 May 2017 at 03:00 UTC Call starting in three minutes Dear All, The call for the New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Sub Team – Track 4 – IDNs/Technical & Operations will take place on Thursday, 04 May 2017 at 03:00 UTC for 60 minutes. 20:00 PDT (Wednesday), 23:00 EDT (Wednesday), 04:00 London, 05:00 CEST For other times: http://tinyurl.com/jhnpz5c Adobe Connect room: https://participate.icann.org/newgtldsubteams/ You can connect your audio by following instructions in the pop up in the AC room, or use the Connect Me option below (also sent in the calendar invitation). Kind regards Michelle DeSmyter You're Invited. You've been invited to a GlobalMeet® phone only meeting. Have the meeting call you. Click the Connect Me link below. No need to dial-in. Connect Me [toolbar.conferencinghub.com]<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__toolbar.conferencinghu…> Not at your computer? You can join by dialing one of the access numbers below. Mobile: tel://16054755604,*,,8650457825#<tel://16054755604,*,,8650457825> Access Number: 1-605-475-5604 Guest Passcode: 8650457825 Additional Access: USA: 1-605-475-5604 USA: 1-712-770-4203 USA: 1-719-457-6209 Canada, Calgary: +1 403 407 5793 Canada, Montreal: +1 514 669 5928 Canada, Toronto: +1 647 426 9172 Canada, Vancouver: +1 604 222 7836 Argentina, Buenos Aires: +54 (0) 11 5172 6003 Argentina (toll free): 0800 800 1223 Australia, Sydney: +61 (0) 2 8017 6064 Australia, Melbourne: +61 (0) 3 8687 0553 Australia, Brisbane: +61 (0) 7 3015 0535 Australia (toll free): 1 800 804 786 Austria, Vienna: +43 (0) 1 25302 1785 Austria (toll free): 0800 8866 3413 Bahrain, Manama: +973 1619 8739 Bahrain (toll free): 800 04212 Belarus (toll free): 8 820 0011 0341 Belgium, Brussels: +32 (0) 2 400 6928 Belgium (toll free): 0800 39279 Brazil, Sao Paulo: +55 11 4935 7169 Brazil, Rio de Janeiro: +55 21 4560 0072 Brazil (toll free): 0800 887 0233 Bulgaria, Sofia: +359 (0) 2 491 6045 Bulgaria (toll free): 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Germany, Munich: +49 (0) 89 2030 31207 Germany (national): 01801 003 899 Germany (toll free): 0800 588 9170 Greece, Athens: +30 211 181 3824 Greece (toll free): 00800 128 913 Hong Kong: +852 3018 9111 Hong Kong (toll free): 800 901 787 Hungary, Budapest: +36 1408 8953 Hungary (toll free): 068 001 9673 Iceland (toll free): 800 9847 India, Delhi: +91 (0) 11 6641 1394 India, Bangalore: +91 (0) 80 6127 6710 India, Mumbai: +91 (0)22 6187 5028 India, Chennai: +91 (0)44 6688 6061 India (toll free): 1800 200 9415 Indonesia, Jakarta: +62 21 2188 9084 Indonesia (toll free): 007 803 321 8927 Ireland, Dublin: +353 (0) 1 526 9421 Ireland (national): 0818 270 271 Ireland (toll free): 1800 937 649 Ireland (national): 1890 907 630 Israel, Tel Aviv: +972 (0)3 721 7943 Israel (toll free): 1809 213 168 Italy, Milan: +39 02 3600 8006 Italy, Rome: +39 06 8750 0676 Italy (toll free): 800 146 094 Japan, Tokyo: +81 (0) 3 4560 1270 Japan, Osaka: +81 (0) 6 4560 2410 Japan (toll free): 0120 305 211 Japan (mobile): 0120 632 611 Japan (national): 0570 085 744 Kazakhstan (toll free): 8800 333 7554 Kenya, Nairobi: +254 (0)20 529 3581 South Korea, Seoul: +82 (0) 2 6007 0079 South Korea (toll free): 00798 6136 1454 Latvia, Riga: +371 6601 3627 Latvia (toll free): 8000 4418 Lithuania, Vilnius: +370 5205 5468 Lithuania (toll free): 8800 31449 Luxembourg: +352 2088 1749 Luxembourg (toll free): 800 28433 Malaysia,Kuala Lumpur: +60 (0) 3 7724 8010 Malaysia (toll free): 1 800 816 152 Mexico, Guadalajara: +52 33 4162 4504 Mexico, Mexico City: +52 55 8421 0326 Mexico, Monterrey: +52 81 4162 5648 Mexico (toll free): 01 800 733 4102 Morocco, Casablanca: +212 (0) 520 48 0022 Morocco (toll free): 0800 091 296 Netherlands, Amsterdam: +31 (0) 20 716 8345 Netherlands (toll free): 0800 020 2597 New Zealand, Christchurch: +64 (0) 3 974 2596 New Zealand, Wellington: +64 (0) 4 909 4674 New Zealand, Auckland: +64 (0) 9 929 1825 New Zealand (toll free): 0800 452 947 Nigeria, Lagos: +234 1 277 3944 Norway, Oslo: +47 21 00 48 15 Norway (toll free): 800 56081 Oman (toll free): 800 77265 Panama, Panama City: +507 8 335 913 Panama (toll free): 00800 223 1390 Peru, Lima: +51 (0) 1 700 9571 Peru (toll free): 0800 78102 Philippines, Manila: +63 (0)2 395 3426 Philippines (toll free): 1 800 111 013 99 Poland, Warsaw: +48 22 295 3570 Poland (toll free): 00 800 121 4356 Portugal, Lisbon: +351 21 316 4093 Portugal (toll free): 800 784 442 Qatar (toll free): 00 800 100 491 Romania, Bucharest: +40 (0) 21 529 3992 Romania (toll free): 0800 801 035 Russia, Moscow: +7 495 646 9181 Russia (toll free): 8 800 500 9241 Saudi Arabia (toll free): 800 844 6641 Saudi Arabia (toll free): 800 850 0219 Serbia (toll free): 0800 190 712 Singapore: +65 6622 1957 Singapore (toll free): 800 616 3192 Slovakia, Bratislava: +421 (0)2 3321 5498 Slovakia (toll free): 0800 002 002 Slovenia, Ljubljana: +386 1600 8695 Slovenia (toll free): 0800 81193 South Africa, Johannesburg: +27 (0)11 589 8321 South Africa (toll free): 0800 999 434 Spain, Madrid: +34 91 114 6653 Spain, Barcelona: +34 93 800 1946 Spain (toll free): 900 828 035 Sri Lanka, Sri Lanka: +94 720 910 333 Sweden, Stockholm: +46 (0) 8 5065 3956 Sweden (toll free): 0200 125 588 Switzerland, Geneva: +41 (0) 22 595 4795 Switzerland, Zurich: +41 (0) 44 580 7207 Switzerland (toll free): 0800 740 360 Taiwan, Taipei: +886 (0) 2 2650 7329 Taiwan (toll free): 0800 666 596 Thailand, Bangkok: +66 (0) 2104 0761 Thailand (toll free): 001 800 6136 1473 Tunisia, Tunis: +216 31 378 101 Turkey, Istanbul: +90 212 375 50 49 Turkey (toll free): 00800 4488 26642 Ukraine (toll free): 0800 500 896 UAE (toll free): 8000 3570 2662 UK (03): +44 (0)330 336 6002 UK (toll free): 0800 358 6385 UK (national): 0844 473 5010 UK (national): 0845 545 0015 USA /Canada (toll free): 1-866-398-2885 Uruguay (toll free): 0004 019 0152 Venezuela, Caracas: +58 212 720 2164 Venezuela (toll free): 0 800 162 7451 Vietnam, Hanoi: +84 4 4458 3312 Vietnam (toll free): 1800 9226 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Recording, AC Chat & Attendance from New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Sub Team Track 4 IDNs/Technical & Operations call on Thursday, 20 April 2017 20:00 UTC
by Michelle DeSmyter April 20, 2017

April 20, 2017

Dear All, Please find the attendance and recording of the call attached to this email. The Adobe Connect recording and AC Chat are below for the New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Sub Team – Track 4 – IDNs/Technical & Operations held on Thursday, 20 April 2017 at 20:00 UTC. Adobe Connect recording: https://participate.icann.org/p6q3q59ksr6/ The recordings of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-newgtld-wg-wt4 Agenda Wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/ILHRAw Thank you. Kind regards, Michelle DeSmyter ------------------------------- Adobe Connect chat transcript for 20 April 2017 Michelle DeSmyter:Welcome to the New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Sub Team – Track 4 – IDNs/Technical & Operations call on Thursday, 20 April 2017 at 20:00 UTC Michelle DeSmyter:Agenda wiki page: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__community.icann.org_x_… avri doria:not quite completely here yet. Jennifer Chung:Thanks for the welcome Cheryl, glad to be on the call Rubens Kuhl:Sound is breaking up for me.... Rubens Kuhl:... is it a side effect of the AC changes ? Steve Chan:@Rubens, I'm on a phone and it's good for me. Steve Chan:Not sure if someone else might be able to comment on AC audio Emily Barabas:Draft CCT-RT comments are here for review: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_docume… Rubens Kuhl:One reference video on this type of collision is this DEFCON presentation: Rubens Kuhl:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPbyDSvGasw Rubens Kuhl:Called "DEFCON 21 - DNS May Be Hazardous to Your Health - Robert Stucke" Julie Hedlund:Information from ICANN on Name Collisions: Here’s the ICANN guidance on it: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_resource… Rubens Kuhl:Emily/Julie: could we add the video above to the WT references ? Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):Julie does SSAC have yet to be published research on anything mentioned by Avri? Julie Hedlund:@ Cheryl: There is SAC090. I'll get the link. I don't think there is anything further. Steve Chan:SAC090: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_en_syste… Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):with us yes, but management must in my Biased view, be looked at and resolved Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):thus the importance of this and similar conversations Julie Hedlund:Also, SAC062: SAC Advisory Concerning the Mitigation of Name Collision Risk (07 November 2013) at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.icann.org_en_group… Julie Hedlund:SAC090 is SSAC Advisory on the Stability of the Domain Namespace (22 December 2016) Alan Greenberg:Middle ground is almost certainly where we will end up. Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):personal view is that I suspect so Alan avri doria:Alan, we often stick with status quo. avri doria:mitigation is a good middle postion in many things Alan Greenberg:Agreed. Just hazarding a guess. Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):yes indeed Avri Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):or data yet unpublished Alan Greenberg:Where can we find reports of those 37 occurrences? Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):Time check 12 min in call ⌚ and Rubens and I have another call starting at top of the hour Rubens Kuhl:CLO, I have to make the same call. Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):yes I noted that my friend :-) Alan Greenberg:I do understand what collisions mean. But examples of what the identified problems were is, in my opinion, important.\ Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC):Thank you Cheryl and everyone. Emily Barabas:Thursday 4 May at 3:00 UTC avri doria:bye

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Actions/Discussion Notes: Work Track 4 SubTeam Meeting 20 April
by Julie Hedlund April 20, 2017

April 20, 2017

Dear Sub Team Members, Please see below the action items and discussion notes captured by staff from the meeting on 20 April. These high-level notes are designed to help Work Track Sub Team members navigate through the content of the call and are not meant to be a substitute for the recording. Please also see the recording on the meetings page at: https://community.icann.org/display/NGSPP/Work+Track+4+Meetings. Note also that the referenced slides for today’s meeting are attached and excerpts from the chat room are included. Best regards, Julie Julie Hedlund, Policy Director Action Items/Discussion Notes 20 April 1. Full Work Group Update -- Spent the last meeting working on the CCT-RT issues. -- Put together a response to the CCT-RT open comment that is up for review. See: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LC-1-Z2auN2XTSJXyW34eWnGgNuuDInIOeJ1TcZ…. -- Next meeting talk through sending off the comment. -- Getting ready for the Geo Names at the top level 25 April at two different times. Everyone is invited and please sign up in advance. -- Drafting Teams on the open issues working. Staff has provided initial documents to work from. -- CC2 comment: Got a formal request for an extension. Looks like we can offer an extension of 3 weeks and still meet the document deadline for ICANN59. Out for discussion in case there are objections -- none yet. If comments are done people should send them in an not wait. 2. Name collisions in legacy gTLDs (.com, .net, .org, etc.) Slide 6: Name Collisions: New Name, Old Phenomena (1/2) -- End user expecting the DNS to work in one way and it works in a different names. -- No policy allowing those problems to be addressed by Contracted Parties. -- ICANN does not hold itself as the DNS police. -- Adopting a policy could be somewhat unprecedented. For discussion: Contracted Parties should be forced or could be allowed to take collision domains away from users (policy change) -- Possible threats does not warrent policy changes; no new policy required. Discussion: -- How many names are we talking about? Not clear what is the set of collision domains. SAC090 report and JAS report. -- One of the problems in defining a policy is such domains are generated by software bugs so we can't anticipate. Not knowing the scope is one of the things that makes it hard to have a policy on this. -- Question: How does this area relate to the APB reports issued with the new round? Is there a relationship? Answer: No connect. -- When we are talking about the SSAC and JAS report we are talking about collisions at the top level, but here we are talking about lower levels. For the last round they did devise certain mitigations. -- Have there been any studies on second level collisions? Do we have any follow on data on the mitigation strategies used in the previous round. Any suggestions as to their being a yellow track in this that perhaps we aren't changing the policy but nor are we forcing any behavior, but coming up with a recommendation for greater study of mitigation -- how inform, how educate, etc. -- Discussion in Copenhagen with Board on name space and coordination with the IETF. -- Shouldn't we be getting a presentation from the SSAC on name space/name collisions? Get advice and input from the SSAC. -- Need to make some recommendations out of this WG. -- Mark this as a topic to bring in external expertise. >From the chat: Steve Chan: SAC090: https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/sac-090-en.pdf Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): with us yes, but management must in my Biased view, be looked at and resolved Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): thus the importance of this and similar conversations Julie Hedlund: Also, SAC062: SAC Advisory Concerning the Mitigation of Name Collision Risk (07 November 2013) at https://www.icann.org/en/groups/ssac/documents/sac-062-en.pdf Julie Hedlund: SAC090 is SSAC Advisory on the Stability of the Domain Namespace (22 December 2016) Alan Greenberg: Middle ground is almost certainly where we will end up. Slide 7: Name collisions: New Name, Old Phenomena (2/2) For Discussion: Expired Domain Deletion and Expired Registration Recovery policies should be revised and changed? -- Possible threats does not warrant policy changes? Discussion: -- Are these policies enough? -- Seems like there is a lack of data. -- Note sure we are missing data and need to do studies. -- Still a lot of issues that are hard to digest and not every word in them is gospel. The studies that have been done are old. There doesn't seem to be new data. Find out if there is new data. >From the chat: Alan Greenberg: Middle ground is almost certainly where we will end up. Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): personal view is that I suspect so Alan avri doria: Alan, we often stick with status quo. avri doria: mitigation is a good middle postion in many things Alan Greenberg: Agreed. Just hazarding a guess. 3. Name Collisions Framework in 2012 Round (slide 9) -- Requirement to pass a controlled interruption period. -- Current number of collision reports is 37 -- 0 life threatening. -- ICANN has not published the collision reports. For discussion: 2012-round registries should extend such support beyond the 2-year period (implementation change) -- Occurrence experience does not warrant creation of policy to override what is in the agreements (keep as is)? -- Is the current 2012-round process enough? -- No idea of how close occurrences came to being life threatening. Can't make an informed decision. Need to understand what the collisions were. -- Need to err on the side of caution but not to such an extent that it impacts the industry. You do have instances where you can analyze risk and the cost of mitigations compared to the cost of something going wrong. -- Just because something hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't. Need to know the consequences if it does.

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WT4 Meeting Agenda
by Rubens Kuhl April 20, 2017

April 20, 2017

Dear WT4 members, Today's (April 20 2017) call for the New gTLD Subsequent Procedures Sub Team – Track 4 - IDNs/Technical & Operations will take place in a few minutes (20:00 UTC). The proposed agenda is as follows, since we agreed in the last call to revisit the same themes: 1. Welcome 2. SOIs 3. Full WG update (if any) 4. Name collisions in legacy gTLDs 5. Name collisions in 2012-round gTLDs 6. AOB Adobe Connect room: https://participate.icann.org/newgtldsubteams/ You can connect your audio by following instructions in the pop up in the AC room, or use the Connect Me option that was sent in the calendar invitation. Best, CLO & Rubens

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- FYI - Public Comment on Internationalized Domain Name (IDN) Implementation Guidelines
by Steve Chan March 8, 2017

March 8, 2017

Dear WT4 Members, I have received a note from Sarmad Hussain, ICANN’s IDN Program Director, seeking to draw our attention to a public comment announcement: “The Internationalized Domain Name (IDN) Implementation Guidelines relate to the IDN registration policies and practices, designed to minimize the risk of cybersquatting and consumer confusion, to cater to the interests of communities using local languages and scripts. These guidelines are applicable to gTLD registries and registrars offering IDNs at the second level, and recommended for IDN ccTLDs. Following the Call for Community Experts, a Working Group (WG) was formed in Oct. 2015 to review the current version (3.0) of the IDN Implementation Guidelines, last updated in 2011. The WG has finalized its work and solicits feedback of the community on the IDN Implementation Guidelines 4.0, the proposed update to the current Guidelines. The direct link to the public comment is https://www.icann.org/public-comments/idn-guidelines-2017-03-03-en. The WG has also organized a detailed session on these guidelines at ICANN 58: see https://schedule.icann.org/event/9nmh/icann-gdd-idn-implementation-guidelin… While these guidelines are certainly relevant to existing registry operators that offer, or intend to offer, IDNs, staff and leadership thought it may also be relevant to WT4. These guidelines have been in development for some time now and we encourage you to review version 4.0. Best, Steve Steven Chan  Sr. Policy Manager   ICANN 12025 Waterfront Drive, Suite 300 Los Angeles, CA 90094-2536  steve.chan(a)icann.org mobile: +1.310.339.4410 office tel: +1.310.301.5800 office fax: +1.310.823.8649 Find out more about the GNSO by taking our interactive courses and visiting the GNSO Newcomer pages. Follow @GNSO on Twitter: https://twitter.com/ICANN_GNSO Follow the GNSO on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/icanngnso/ http://gnso.icann.org/en/

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