Dear All, Please find the MP3 recording for the Privacy and Proxy Services Accreditation Issues PDP Working group call held on Tuesday 04 November 2014 at 15:00 UTC. at: http://audio.icann.org/gnso/gnso-ppsa-20141104-en.mp3 On page: http://gnso.icann.org/en/group-activities/calendar#nov The recordings and transcriptions of the calls are posted on the GNSO Master Calendar page: http://gnso.icann.org/calendar/ Attendees: Steve Metalitz - IPC Graeme Bunton – RrSG Frank Michlick – Individual Don Blumenthal – RySG David Heasley-IPC Jim Bikoff-IPC Chris Pelling – RrSG Justin Macy - BC Susan Kawaguchi – BC Kristina Rosette – IPC Darcy Southwell – RrSG Sarah Wyld – RrSG Val Sherman – IPC Todd Williams – IPC Phil Corwin – BC Volker Greimann - RrSG Holly Raiche – ALAC Theo Geurts - RrSG Stephanie Perrin - NCSG David Cake - NCSG Susan Prosser – RrSG Libby Baney – BC Eric Brunner-Williams-N/A Luc Seufer – RrSG Philip Marano-IPC Lindsay Hamilton-Reid-RrSG Kiran Malancharuvil-IPC Carlton Samuels – At-Large Apologies : Michele Neylon – RrSG Alex Deacon – IPC Kathy Kleiman – NCSG Victoria Scheckler - IPC David Hughes-IPC James Bladel – RrSG Paul McGrady – IPC Osvaldo Novoa - ISPCP Keith Kupferschmid-IPC Christian Dawson-ISPCP ICANN staff: Mary Wong Terri Agnew ** Please let me know if your name has been left off the list ** Mailing list archives: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg/ Wiki page: https://community.icann.org/x/9iCfAg Thank you. Kind regards, Terri Agnew ------------------------------- Adobe Connect chat transcript for Tuesday 04 November 2014: Terri Agnew:Welcome to the PPSAI call on 04 November 2014 Chris Pelling:afternoon all Holly Raiche:Hi Terri. Did I request a dial out? Terri Agnew:Hi Holly, you did not but I amhaving the op dial out to you now Holly Raiche:Tks - 61 2 9436 2149 Graeme Bunton:Crank calls for Holly! Holly Raiche:It's 2.00am - I promise not to answer! Theo Geurts::) Graeme Bunton:Volker! Terri Agnew:Please remember to mute when not speaking Theo Geurts:Volker instructing folks at work hehe Val Sherman::) Philip Corwin:Good morning all Volker Greimann 2:now? Graeme Bunton:better Theo Geurts:all good now Volker Terri Agnew:Stephabnie Perrin has joined Terri Agnew:**Stephanie Perrin Libby Baney:Don, I'm having a bit of trouble hearing you through Adobe. Anyone else? Libby Baney:yeah, thanks! Graeme Bunton:sounds ok to me David Cake:fine with me too. Terri Agnew:Lindsay Hamilton-Reid has joined Lindsay Hamilton-Reid:Apologies for being late. Luc Seufer:operator said you spkoe too close to the mic Terri Agnew:Phil Marano has joined Sarah Wyld - Aplus.net:If there's privacy on the domain, wouldn't the IP right holder not be able to know if a licensed user is using it? Sarah Wyld - Aplus.net:B/c there's privacy they can't see who the user is. Sarah Wyld - Aplus.net:(Personally I still don't think it's a good reason to reveal) Luc Seufer:Isn't the use of the domain name important? And "revealing" who is using the domain? David Cake:Surely if they have had rights granted, they would respond to a relayed request? Holly Raiche:@ david - you would think so Philip Corwin:Agree with discussing reveal further offline -- and clarifying again that my concerns rekate solely to automatice reveal based solely on allegation of infringement based solely on domain name (for which UDRP & URS exist) rather than allegations of, e.g., sale of counterfeit goods on the website. Philip Corwin:And agree with David that an authorized user would likely respond to a relayed request. Terri Agnew:Keith Kupferschmid sends his apologies Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):just a comment on registrar deacreditation, this assumes that there is deaccreditation for reasons other than non-payment, as a general rule. Holly Raiche:@ Eris - that was my understanding Holly Raiche:@ Stephanie - absolutely agree with the issues you are raising Mary Wong:The ICANN Compliance Dept publishes a monthly dashboard/report: https://features.icann.org/compliance Holly Raiche:What hat raises is the issue of transfer of a P/P client - which we have discussed but not necessarily solved Mary Wong:Part of the monthly report deals with Complaints and Enforcement; see this for an example of what they deal with: https://features.icann.org/compliance/enforcement-notices Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):i think seperation of the registrar and the p/p services will help, only want to terminate the p/p if only the p/p tos is substantively and repeatedly breeched. Carlton Samuels:Howdy all Holly Raiche:Morning Carlton Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):and only want to terminate the registrar service only if the registrar tos (raa08, raa13) is similarly breached. Stephanie Perrin:Totally agree with Phil on the mixing point. Need clarity here. Stephanie Perrin:Also need clarity....if a registrar is de-accredited, the PP service is separate in my view. Holly Raiche:I thought we jumped right into deaccreditation of the provider Volker Greimann 2:de-accreditation does not equal full disclosure Carlton Samuels:The arrnagement is for independent accreditation for P/P provider and Rr. So deaccreditation process must be separate for both. Holly Raiche:@ Volker - I think we are talking about de-accreditation of the provider - not about disclosure of details of the registrant Mary Wong:@Susan, thanks - we will check with our Rr Services & Compliance colleagues and get back to the WG. Susan Kawaguchi:Thanks Mary Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):the question to ask if when icann (mike z) sends out "who wants to pick up the registrants of deaccredited registrar X", is an additional condition that the new registrar offer p/p previously. Stephanie Perrin:ONe of the issues, it seems to me, is how my PP service is transferred...if I select a provider based on whether they will defend me in case of IP claims, and the new provider chosen by ICANN does not, what are my appeal mechanisms?How fast do I have to move? it is a matter that is somewhat more consequential, when one has taken the effort to use a proxy.. Carlton Samuels:If we think deaccreditation of the one MUST impact the other in cases where the P/P procvider is also a Rr provider, then we use a 'fit and proper' framework Susan Kawaguchi:agree Carlton Mary Wong:2013 RAA: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/approved-with-specs-2013-09-17-en Mary Wong:Termination is in Section 5.5 Holly Raiche:Agre with Stephanie - it is one of the issues tha flows from de-accreditation Stephanie Perrin:@Carlton yes re separation of business lines Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):iirc, if X has registrants in {com,net,org} then the registrars who respond to mike z's sollicitation mail must previously have at least passed ot&e with the {com/net} and {org} registry providers. rinse and repeat for the 2000 and 2004 and now 2013 sets of operators. Terri Agnew:Kiran Malancharuvil has joined audio Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):so p/p is an additional constraint on the set of would-be failover registrars. Graeme Bunton:Could be we need a bit more time to go over the template. Mary Wong:Current interim spec: https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/approved-with-specs-2013-09-17-en#priv... steve metalitz:ICANN does currently send breach notices to registrars that operate p/p services, which could lead to de-accreditation of the registrar, see https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/correspondence/serad-to-elizarov-31oct... Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):steve, same t&c as for raa breach? Terri Agnew:Carlton Samuels has joined Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):same cure window? steve metalitz:@Eric, the link is to an RAA breach notice so I think the answer to your questions is yes Stephanie Perrin:I agree with Graeme, It would be nice to get more time to go over all these links. Sorry for not having done assigned homework. Eric Brunner-Williams (ebw):ok, since it is possible to serially in-breach/not-in-breach via recurring cure (e.g., whois server down, up, down, ...). it would not be appropriate for serial breach of p/p either way (disclosure w/o reason or non-disclosure w/reason). Mary Wong:@Steve, thanks yes, the WG has some specific recs for customer obligations so those would "count" for TOS/T&C breach, presumably. Chris Pelling:are we looking to have a f2f in singapore ? Chris Pelling:being next feb now Chris Pelling:ta Mary Wong:@Chris, presumably the WG will have its usual meeting, but there won't be the additional day of facilitation as there was in LA Philip Corwin:FYI, I will miss next Tuesday's call as I will be flying to Phoenix for INTA Leadership meeting. Mary Wong:Thanks for letting us know, Phil - we'll note your apologies. Philip Corwin:Bye all Volker Greimann 2:thank you all Luc Seufer:thanks David Cake:thank you all Carlton Samuels:Thanks all Carlton Samuels:bye