Thanks Mary and James for the response. Alex On Mar 4, 2014, at 3:08 PM, Mary Wong <mary.wong@icann.org<mailto:mary.wong@icann.org>> wrote: * PGP - S/MIME Signed by an unverified key: 03/04/2014 at 03:08:34 PM Hi Alex – the WG Charter does not expressly limit the work of this WG to only P/P services provided by entities affiliated with a Registrar. Perhaps the 2013 RAA has created a bit of confusion in this respect. It requires Registrars and those of its Affiliates that offer P/P services to comply with the terms of the temporary P/P Specification (with Affiliates defined in terms of corporate control). It also requires that a Registrar's Resellers comply with the Specification until such time as ICANN establishes a P/P Accreditation Program. As such, the 2013 RAA as currently written applies to affiliated P/P services (including any distributed through a Reseller). The RAA does seem to envisage that "Among other features, the Proxy Accreditation Program [to be established by ICANN] may require that: (i) proxy and privacy registration services may only be provided in respect of domain name registrations by individuals or entities Accredited by ICANN pursuant to such Proxy Accreditation Program; and (ii) Registrar shall prohibit Resellers from knowingly accepting registrations from any provider of proxy and privacy registration services that is not Accredited by ICANN pursuant the Proxy Accreditation Program." (see Section 3.12.4 of the 2013 RAA) I hope this helps. Cheers Mary Mary Wong Senior Policy Director Internet Corporation for Assigned Names & Numbers (ICANN) Telephone: +1 603 574 4892 Email: mary.wong@icann.org<mailto:mary.wong@icann.org> * One World. One Internet. * From: "Alex_Deacon@mpaa.org<mailto:Alex_Deacon@mpaa.org>" <Alex_Deacon@mpaa.org<mailto:Alex_Deacon@mpaa.org>> Date: Tuesday, March 4, 2014 5:45 PM To: "kathy@kathykleiman.com<mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com>" <kathy@kathykleiman.com<mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com>> Cc: "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org>> Subject: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Registrar affiliated p/p services? (was Re: For review - updated templates Cat B, questions 1 and 2) Hi, First, thanks for the great discussion on weekly call this morning. The presentations were very helpful. Second, a quick yet fundamental question - prompted by a statement made by Kathy below. Does the scope of our work include *only” privacy/proxy providers affiliated with registrars? I was working under the impression that any privacy/proxy provider - affiliated or not - was in scope i.e we are the PPSAI PDP WG and not the RAPPSAI PDP WG. Thanks. Alex On Mar 4, 2014, at 5:23 AM, Kathy Kleiman <kathy@kathykleiman.com<mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com>> wrote: What Volker writes below makes sense to me, All. Provided the agreed upon 2013 RAA review of data has been done by someone, I don't see why we should duplicate it. The scope of our WG is p/p providers affiliated with registrars -- so coordination of the review of the data, per the ICANN rules, in conjunction with the Registrar makes perfect sense to me. As does a "no-privacy penalty." What we have found (Nominet and others -- BTW no one on staff reached out to me to help dig out this study, can we do that this week?) is that when people know their data is private and protected, it is more accurate. That makes sense and complies with government advice from all corners. Even the US Federal Trade Commission says not to give out your name and phone number in a way that is open and unprotected! So I think we are already headed towards more accurate data... Best, Kathy : Hi Steven, if we can limit that obligation to those cases where no validation of the underlying data has been performed by the registrar of record, we might be getting somewhere. An independent obligation that duplicates work already done will help no one and confuse many. Volker Am 03.03.2014 19:51, schrieb Metalitz, Steven: Thanks Volker. It is precisely because “the registrars obligation only extends to the registrant of record, not to anyone who may use the domain name with permission of that registrant,” that there should be an independent obligation on the part of the p/p service provider to validate its customer’s contact information. Steve. From: Volker Greimann [mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net] Sent: Monday, March 03, 2014 5:32 AM To: Metalitz, Steven; gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] For review - updated templates Cat B, questions 1 and 2 Hi Steven, Even when this assertion is relevant, it may not be persuasive, for a number of reasons. For example, the Whois data reminder obligation applies to the registrant of record. In the case of a proxy service, the registrant or record is the service, not its customer. If a Whois data reminder is sent to a non-proxy registrant and bounces back, then the RAA requires the registrar to re-verify. But a data reminder sent to a proxy service will almost never bounce back, and therefore there may be no RAA obligation to re-verify. This is so even if the customer data provided to the service is inaccurate or outdated. In this circumstance it is up to the p/p service accreditation standards to specify the conditions under which customer data must be re-verified. This depends on how the service is set up. One could suggest that if such required messages from the registrar do not reach the registrant, it could become the providers' obligation to perform the information requirements on its own. The registrar could then rely on the provider to perform its duties under the accreditation agreement with ICANN just at it performs its own obligations under the RAA. Please also remember that the registrars obligation only extends to the registrant of record, not to anyone who may use the domain name with permission of that registrant. V. -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. 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If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone. _______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org>https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg _______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg * Mary Wong <mary.wong@icann.org<mailto:mary.wong@icann.org>> * Issuer: DigiCert Inc - Unverified * PGP Unprotected * text/plain body * PGP Unprotected _______________________________________________ Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg mailing list Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg * PGP - S/MIME Signed by an unverified key: 03/04/2014 at 03:08:34 PM * text/plain body * text/html body * Mary Wong <mary.wong@icann.org> * Issuer: DigiCert Inc - Unverified