Hi Billy, actually, there is another, more common reason for using another registrars privacy details: Domain transfers. In many cases, a domain gets transferred with the privacy details still in place and the data gets copied over. I would say that 90% of all cases where we see another registrars privacy settings in domains registered with us, the registrant simply forgot to turn off the service prior to the transfer and the domain was transferred in with that data in place. Volker Am 22.05.2014 02:21, schrieb Billy Watenpaugh:
hi
- I agree that it should be available to all. -I agree that the whois should be the same.
With regards to the issue below (raised by Michele) around using someone else's Whois P/P details and just faking them in, here are my thoughts:
-people that do this are quite obviously not using the P/P service, and have just stolen it. Any registrar can tell this instantly, and a complaint about the name would reveal that immediately. Therefore, the registrant would be violating a number of rules around having true and accurate whois info. Basically, they are supplying this info directly to the registrar and there is no 'underlying' true data. it's all fake and the domain name can be dealt with accordingly. Plus the fact the the email forwarding is not going to work for them for most P/P services means they are going to end up losing important compliance notices as well. And further, most of this should have been taken care of by the Registrant Verification rules in the 2013 RAA. -we don't really need an extra field approved to be added to the Whois. IMO this is making unnecessary work for ourselves. The RAA already allows a registrar to add additional terms at the bottom of the Whois record. This cannot be faked. So a registrar could very easily put in language on any domain using P/P services information around it. I am not even sure we should require this or have a policy for it. It's more like a Best Practice to me and would be a way of distinguishing reputable P/P services against poor ones.
I think manipulating the Whois records is just making a bunch of extra work for us that we don't really need to do.
-billy
On May 21, 2014, at 11:56 AM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>> wrote:
John - yes I am probably opening up a can of worms with this and maybe this isn't the best group to discuss this, but there is very little at present to stop someone from using someone else's details for things without their permission or knowledge .. -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Domains http://www.blacknight.co/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.technology.ie <http://www.technology.ie/> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072 Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 Twitter:http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 *From:*gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>[mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org]*On Behalf Of*John Horton *Sent:*Wednesday, May 21, 2014 5:44 PM *To:*Kathy Kleiman *Cc:*gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject:*Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI WG -- questions for list As to the questions posed by Steve pertaining to C.3:
1. As you know, we believe p/p services should be available to commercial entities, unless and until the domain name is actively used for the sale of goods or services. So, we are a "partial yes" on commercial entities. 2. However, in direct answer to Steve's question, for p/p domain name registration for commercial entities not using the domain name for commercial transactions, we agree with Luc, Volker, Michele and (I think) everyone so far that the data in the Whois record should be consistent, irrespective of whether it is a non-commercial registrant or a commercial registrant.
As to a flag, I think Kathy is correct that we have agreed that accredited p/p providers should identify themselves in the "registrant" line of the Whois record, and I assume this could be checked against an approved p/p provider ICANN list. However, Michele's point is an interesting one. We have seen instances in which a registrant is, without approval, putting, say, GoDaddy's or eNom's p/p Whois information into the Whois field (and being registered with an entirely different registrar). If I understand Michele's point, a flag here -- presumably only insertable by the registrar (not the registrant) -- would help to identify instances in which the p/p service is legitimately being used. Michele, is that the idea?
John Horton President, LegitScript *Follow****Legit**Script*:LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/company/legitscript-com> | Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/LegitScript> | Twitter <https://twitter.com/legitscript> | YouTube <https://www.youtube.com/user/LegitScript> | _Blog <http://blog.legitscript.com/>_ |Google+ <https://plus.google.com/112436813474708014933/posts>
On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Kathy Kleiman <kathy@kathykleiman.com <mailto:kathy@kathykleiman.com>> wrote: I share the questions James is raising. All, I thought we already agreed that accredited p/p providers have to identify themselves in the "Registrant line" of the Whois listing. So that it is obvious to someone reviewing the Whois record what they are seeking, and who to contact for the underlying customer information. In that case, do we still need a new flag?
Best, Kathy :
Are we talking about a new kind of status? I think any flag would have to be in the data field itself. The P/P provider cannot create a new field for the "flag" or set /clear flags in WHOIS. That's the Registrar. For example, if there is some future equivalent to IANA ID numbers for P/P services, they should append this to their name in WHOIS. J. *From:*Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele@blacknight.com <mailto:michele@blacknight.com>> *Date:*Wednesday, May 21, 2014 at 7:52 *To:*Volker Greimann <vgreimann@key-systems.net <mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>>, "gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org>" <gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org>> *Subject:*Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI WG -- questions for list Volker Would you have an issue with there being an extra "flag" to indicate that a domain was using a PP? M -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Domains http://www.blacknight.co/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.technology.ie <http://www.technology.ie/> Intl.+353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2059%C2%A0%209183072> Direct Dial:+353 (0)59 9183090 <tel:%2B353%20%280%2959%209183090> Twitter:http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 *From:*gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>[mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org]*On Behalf Of*Volker Greimann *Sent:*Wednesday, May 21, 2014 10:55 AM *To:*gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject:*Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI WG -- questions for list
Agreed.
1) There is no compelling reason to exclude potentially legal use of privacy services. 2) The service provided essentially remains the same, therefore no differentiation in the whois output is necessary.
Volker
Am21.05.2014 00 <tel:21.05.2014%2000>:06, schrieb Michele Neylon - Blacknight:
Personally I think two things: 1 -- P/P services should be open to anyone who wants to use them 2 -- the display in whois should be the same no matter who or what has registered the domain With respect to point 2, I don't have any issue with there being a "flag" of some kind to indicate that a registration record is using an accredited P/P Regards Michele -- Mr Michele Neylon Blacknight Solutions Hosting & Colocation, Domains http://www.blacknight.co/ http://blog.blacknight.com/ http://www.technology.ie <http://www.technology.ie/> Intl.+353 (0) 59 9183072 <tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2059%C2%A0%209183072> Locall: 1850 929 929 Direct Dial:+353 (0)59 9183090 <tel:%2B353%20%280%2959%209183090> Fax.+353 (0) 1 4811 763 <tel:%2B353%20%280%29%201%204811%20763> Twitter:http://twitter.com/mneylon ------------------------------- Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845 *From:*gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>[mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org]*On Behalf Of*Metalitz, Steven *Sent:*Tuesday, May 20, 2014 5:07 PM *To:*'Marika Konings';gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject:*[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] PPSAI WG -- questions for list Thanks to all participants on today's call. Following up on requests made on the call ---- Regarding Don's draft preliminary text regarding questions C(threshold), C 1 and C2, please circulate your comments and (especially welcomed!) proposed edits. Don's draft is re-attached here for ready reference. Regarding question C.3: If the following applies to you, please respond on the list: IF you believe that privacy/proxy services ought to be open to commercial entities under some circumstances, THEN should there be a difference in the data displayed for such registrations (vs. what is displayed for p/p registrations by natural persons)? If the answer is YES, please specify the differences. For myself I will say that my answer is NO, but I hope that any YES people will step forward on the list. Thanks! Steve Metalitz, vice chair *From:*gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org>[mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org]*On Behalf Of*Marika Konings *Sent:*Monday, May 19, 2014 3:39 PM *To:*gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org <mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> *Subject:*[Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Proposed Agenda - PPSAI WG Meeting Dear All, Please find below the proposed agenda for tomorrow's PPSAI WG Meeting. Best regards, Marika *Proposed Agenda -- PPSAI WG Meeting -- 20 May 2014*
1. Roll Call / SOI 2. Review proposed preliminary conclusion for threshold question, C1 and C2 (as circulated by Don) 3. Review C3 -- is additional response/discussion needed in light of item 2? (see template attached) 4. Continue deliberations on D1 (see updated template attached) 5. Next steps / confirm next meeting
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-- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. Greimann - Rechtsabteilung - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen. -------------------------------------------- Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, Volker A. Greimann - legal department - Key-Systems GmbH Im Oberen Werk 1 66386 St. Ingbert Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901 Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851 Email: vgreimann@key-systems.net Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated: www.facebook.com/KeySystems www.twitter.com/key_systems CEO: Alexander Siffrin Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534 Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP www.keydrive.lu This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.
