Volker, I agree with and echo Steve's points. Right now we're merely concerned with relaying legal communications. For purposes of relay, it should be any jurisdiction, particularly considering that all gTLD registrants are subject to the UDRP, regardless of what jurisdiction they're in. These communications would generally be intended to try and resolve a potential issue without having to resort to a formal proceeding such as a UDRP. But, if that effort is unsuccessful, and the complainant initiates a UDRP or other proceeding, the trier of fact can determine whether the cited law is a sufficient basis for granting the requested relief. That is not left up to the P/P Service Provider. Thanks! Val ________________________________ From: Metalitz, Steven [met@msk.com] Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 2:05 PM To: 'Volker Greimann'; Valeriya Sherman; Williams, Todd; gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: RE: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Proposal contactability By definition, the jurisdiction of the registrant (p/p service customer) is generally unknown to the third party at the time the relay request for the legal claim is made. A registrant is definitely better off knowing about a “foreign” legal claim. That is a separate question from whether a foreign court can claim jurisdiction over the registrant for that claim – which is often a very complicated question that is by no means limited to where the registrant is physically present. Finally, please, no one is “required to read” anything that is relayed to them. I think that is common ground that was established much earlier in our discussion. From: gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org [mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg-bounces@icann.org] On Behalf Of Volker Greimann Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 1:15 PM To: Valeriya Sherman; Williams, Todd; gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Proposal contactability Hi Valeriya, just as a counterpoint, I do not believe it should be "any jurisdiction". I would accept jurisdiction of the registrant, the service provider and (if affiliated) the registrar, but thats where it stops. Why should a registrant based in Dubai be required to be bothered by a US legal instrument that is not legally binding on him? Why should a US registrant be required to read a Saudi legal complaint? Best, Volker Am 18.08.2014 19:03, schrieb Valeriya Sherman: Hi Volker, A "legal communication" is certainly something we would have to carefully define as a group, but as a starting point, I would define it as any communication by an individual or entity that asserts a problem connected to the ownership or use of a domain name by the beneficial registrant based on and citing the laws of any jurisdiction. The communication need not threaten a lawsuit, or be made by a law firm to constitute a "legal communication." The communication would be submitted via the accepted, to-be-determined means of communication. Best, Val Valeriya Sherman Silverberg, Goldman & Bikoff, L.L.P. 1101 30th Street, N.W. Suite 120 Washington, D.C. 20007 Tel 202.944.3300 Cell 303.589.7477 vsherman@sgbdc.com<mailto:vsherman@law.gwu.edu> ________________________________ From: Volker Greimann [vgreimann@key-systems.net<mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net>] Sent: Monday, August 18, 2014 10:08 AM To: Valeriya Sherman; Williams, Todd; gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org<mailto:gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg@icann.org> Subject: Re: [Gnso-ppsai-pdp-wg] Proposal contactability Hi Valeriya, Another narrower approach would be to ensure that all communications that contain legal complaints are relayed without exception. To be clear, under this approach, there would be no content evaluation, other than to determine that any given communication is or contains a legal complaint. What is a legal communication though? Does it have to include a threat of a law suit? Does it have to include formal legal representation by a law firm? Also, this should be limited to the means of communication offered by the service provider, i.e. if postal relay is not offered, legal communications by postal mail would face the same fate as spam, i.e. the bin... Best, volker -- Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung. Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Volker A. 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